Mike's Statement and 2rcc build

[Mrpictureman]

I have some questions with my Statement build, pictures to come if I can figure out how to post them? Any help would be appreciated

1. I have decided to line the boxes with foam from foambymail. I understand the mid-tunnel 45 degree cut and moved back from the baffle 1 1/2-2 inches. What about the woofers, does the foam need to be angled and do they need to be held back from the baffle.

2. Jim had stated that you need to put foam every where you can see looking into the woofers, however I can see every where below the bottom brace down to the port and bottom of the speaker. Do I foam all of that also?

3. I also made a mistake on the bottom of the speaker. I did a complete cutout to hold the port but after looking at the plans I noticed it should have been attached to the base. I went a head and cut out the bottom piece and put in one according to plan. My questions is does it really matter? If the port is attached to the bottom of the speaker and not the base it would be easier to make future changes or adjustments to the base. If I attached the port to the base then no changes can be made without cutting out the port and replacing it?

Thanks to Deewan, Frodaddy, Jim & Jed for all of their help thus far

[ThomasW]

If the pictures are small 100K or less you can upload them as attachments.

If they're big set up and account at a free picture hosting service like photo-bucket, or one of the dozens of services like it. Then paste the picture URL into your post

[Jed]

Is your foam open cell?

[Mrpictureman]

Thanks Thomas

Jed I ordered straight from Jim's links for the 2 in wedge foam and the 1 in foam for the mid tunnels

[Mrpictureman]

A couple of pictures

[john trials]

I have some questions with my Statement build, pictures to come if I can figure out how to post them? Any help would be appreciated

1. I have decided to line the boxes with foam from foambymail. I understand the mid-tunnel 45 degree cut and moved back from the baffle 1 1/2-2 inches. What about the woofers, does the foam need to be angled and do they need to be held back from the baffle.

2. Jim had stated that you need to put foam every where you can see looking into the woofers, however I can see every where below the bottom brace down to the port and bottom of the speaker. Do I foam all of that also?

3. I also made a mistake on the bottom of the speaker. I did a complete cutout to hold the port but after looking at the plans I noticed it should have been attached to the base. I went a head and cut out the bottom piece and put in one according to plan. My questions is does it really matter? If the port is attached to the bottom of the speaker and not the base it would be easier to make future changes or adjustments to the base. If I attached the port to the base then no changes can be made without cutting out the port and replacing it?

Thanks to Deewan, Frodaddy, Jim & Jed for all of their help thus far

1) The foam in the main cabinet does not need to be angled. Keep it 2" back from the baffle and everything should be fine.

2) I lined the entire bottom area below the window brace, except for the baffle area below the woofer. That's where I secured my crossover. Also, leave a little room clear near the tunnel braces so the upper volume and lower volume are not cut off from each other.

3) It doesn't make much difference if the port is attached to the bottom of the enclosure or the base. Just make sure if the port is attached to the main speaker enclosure, that the base has clearance around the port area, so it doesn't change the performance of the port.

I attached the port to the rear of my Statements so I could make outriggers instead of the standard base. So yes, if you attach the port to the speaker cabinet (not the base) then you can change things with the base if you ever want to do that.

[Mrpictureman]

Thanks John, can you clarify this point for me "Just make sure if the port is attached to the main speaker enclosure, that the base has clearance around the port area, so it doesn't change the performance of the port."

Would there be a change in performance if I kept the port secured to the base but routed the bottom speaker cabinet hole just big enough to slide the port in and out?

I also have to thank you as I have read every post on the statements but missed the part on cutting out the space for the tweeters between the mid tunnels until I read yours. I was a bit late when I read it and had to use the router to make the cuts after the tunnels were glued to the cabinet

[john trials]

Thanks John, can you clarify this point for me "Just make sure if the port is attached to the main speaker enclosure, that the base has clearance around the port area, so it doesn't change the performance of the port."

Would there be a change in performance if I kept the port secured to the base but routed the bottom speaker cabinet hole just big enough to slide the port in and out?

I also have to thank you as I have read every post on the statements but missed the part on cutting out the space for the tweeters between the mid tunnels until I read yours. I was a bit late when I read it and had to use the router to make the cuts after the tunnels were glued to the cabinet

Port: If the base comes close to the port, it can restrict airflow. If the base closely surrounds the port, it will effectively lengthen the port (which will change its tuning). I'm not sure how you are going to do the base, so I'm just trying to make sure you give the port enough room. The base in the plans has a 9" diameter hole in it, so if you do that, you're fine.

Tweeter cutouts: Some people in the past have not done this and it can be a problem. I'm glad you caught it before going too far.

[FroDaddy]

Subscribed! :T

My ports were attached to the bottom of the cabinet, and I made my bases with wide cutouts.

Image not available

I forgot to notch the tunnels when I built my Mini surrounds, but it was before the front baffles were glued. I used a multitool to carve the notches out. Also it's a good idea to measure your speaker cutouts with the drivers in-hand.

[Mrpictureman]

Thanks Mark, Did you have two 3/4 in bottoms to your cabinets or just the one 3/4 in? I really like the idea od being able to change the base if for some reason it gets damaged or change designs without having to cut out the port. Although most important I don't want to change the sound of the speaker? So I can stick with the original plans if needed to keep the sound?

The baffles have been cut for sometime as you know I have been taking it a bit slow. I still need to do the backs for the driver and the mids. I saw Jim say use 3/4 roundovers on the woofers and others used 45 deg chamfer. I have the 3/4 roundover but can file down more if needed? On the mids I may do a roundover and file or use a sabersaw to cut them down further? How much material should be taken from the back of the baffle for the mids?

[john trials]

The baffles have been cut for sometime as you know I have been taking it a bit slow. I still need to do the backs for the driver and the mids. I saw Jim say use 3/4 roundovers on the woofers and others used 45 deg chamfer. I have the 3/4 roundover but can file down more if needed? On the mids I may do a roundover and file or use a sabersaw to cut them down further? How much material should be taken from the back of the baffle for the mids?

There are many ways to do the relief cuts on the rear of the baffle. I doubt there is much (if any) difference between a chamfer and a fillet (roundover) as far as the acoustics are concerned. People who are into fluid dynamics may disagree.

For the mids, I cut the 1/2" thick part of the baffle flush with the mid tunnel (a 5" x 5" square cutout) using a flush trim bit (While building my Statements, I mounted my baffles with pins so I could put them on and take them off multiple times to get a nice fit and make the woodworking easier...then I glued the 1/2" baffle to the cabinet first, followed by the 3/4" baffle). The back of the 3/4" baffle was routed with a 45 degree chamfer that came out to a 5" diameter at it's widest (so it met the 5" x 5" cutout).

Here is a photo of the front and rear of my 3/4" baffle. You can barely see the 5" square penciled around the mids. The chamfer comes out and meets that 5" square.

[Mrpictureman]

John, I already have the 2 baffle piece's glued together, any other thoughts on how much to cut away from the woofers and mids?

[Jed]

Get a top bearing chamfer bit and top bearing rabbet bit.

[john trials]

You should separate the 3/4" baffle from the 1/2" baffle, then do it my way.

Just kidding. Use your roundover bit and cut back as much as you can on the woofer. File or sand away more MDF if you want. MDF can be removed pretty easily, so it shouldn't take much time. On the mid, draw a 5" square and cut back to that. There is no need to go any further on the mid, because of the tunnel. There was a Statement thread where someone filed the backs of the driver cutouts, and it was beautiful...but you'll never see it when completed, and it doesn't need to be perfect.

Edit: Jed's answer came in while I was typing mine, so I didn't see it. Use his suggestion if your baffles are already glued to the main cabinet. I hadn't considered that you may have already done that.

[Mrpictureman]

I don't have baffles glued to the cabinet yet so it should be pretty easy to cut out what I need but how thick should the mid be around the speaker after I remove the MDF?

[FroDaddy]

Thanks Mark, Did you have two 3/4 in bottoms to your cabinets or just the one 3/4 in? I really like the idea od being able to change the base if for some reason it gets damaged or change designs without having to cut out the port. Although most important I don't want to change the sound of the speaker? So I can stick with the original plans if needed to keep the sound?

The baffles have been cut for sometime as you know I have been taking it a bit slow. I still need to do the backs for the driver and the mids. I saw Jim say use 3/4 roundovers on the woofers and others used 45 deg chamfer. I have the 3/4 roundover but can file down more if needed? On the mids I may do a roundover and file or use a sabersaw to cut them down further? How much material should be taken from the back of the baffle for the mids?

It wouldn't hurt to double it up since you're still in the MDF phase, but I only had one 3/4in bottom. After glue/screwing the collar and base together it became really strong. You could just screw the base onto the bottom without glue though. It looks as though the original Statement drawings have two layers of 3/4in with the port attached to the second layer. I doubt it would change the box tuning so much to where you would notice it, though.

I took a lot of pictures of my builds but I don't have one of the back of my front baffles. I used a huge 45deg chamfer bit on the back of mine to open them up as much as possible. I mark the mounting points and chamfer in between them, leaving more material for the woofers while taking as much as I could with the mids. I already had the bit, though, it was used to angle the sides of my speakers. I'm not much into filing down MDF, I don't have the patience for that.

[Mrpictureman]

Can someone take a look at my crossover? I obviously have not secured them tightly or soldered them until I get the okay that these are correct. Any additional helpful hints would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[john trials]

Assuming the values of the components are correct, the crossover looks good to me. Just remember that the mid drivers are wired in reverse polarity and you should be fine.

I may be overly cautious, but I try to leave the soldering of the caps out towards the ends of their leads (so it's good you didn't trim yours yet). Resistors and inductors can take lots of heat, but I'm careful to try and limit how much heat gets into the caps.

[Mrpictureman]

Finally a finished crossover. Any thoughts

[savage25xtreme]

Mike, are you going to have a removable base? It doesn't look like you would be able to fit that x-over through a driver hole. Looks to be well constructed, but I didn't check schematically. Remember that resistors can get hot so try to keep them off the mounting board so they can breath. Enjoy the build process, it will be over soon and you will be bored again haha! :T

[john trials]

The red wire on the far right-hand side of the photo (going to the iron core inductor) looks like it was soldered around an insulated portion of the inductor wire. Did you strip the insulation from the inductor wire in that area? Is there electrical continuity?

The resistors are very well spaced out (for cooling). I wouldn't worry about moving them off the board unless you're going to be constantly listening to deafening sound levels (pushing major amounts of current through them).

[Mrpictureman]

I had not heard of or seen anything about keeping the resistors off the board how would I do that? I have already glued them to the board. Is there an easy way to remove the glue?

John are you referring to the actual wire on the right or the core wire itself? All wires have been stripped completely and wrapped around the connections. I did not scrape any of the red/orange material from the actual core wire should I do that?

I did check to make sure the board fit into the driver hole and through the bottom window brace. I plan to mount the board on the bottom of the baffle.

I also came up with a plan to secure the top of the port without glue for easier access. Seems to be a very good fit

[john trials]

Way over on the right in the picture (off the right edge of the board), it looks like the red wire is wrapped and soldered around the insulated part of inductor wire (not the stripped end of the inductor wire). Maybe it just looks strange in the photo, but it doesn't look right.

Resistors: I've read 2 different times were a the resistors built up too much heat (smoke) in Statements. In one, the builder had 5 of the resistors all packed in a tight bundle. Absolutely no way to dissipate any heat. In the second case (recently posted over at the PE forum), the Statements were run at what sounded like an extremely high volume...extremely high...with the crossovers under foam, and the resistors covered with a lot of hot-glue.

Look at the photos of his crossover in post 26 https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33306 (an excellent example of how NOT to do a crossover) He was warned...but he ran them anyway...there was smoke. https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33945

Most recent smoke incident (extreme volume, plus the crossovers/resistors were covered with foam and glue...no way for resistors to dissipate heat) http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=218462

I've mounted mine directly to peg board and I'm not a bit concerned. Again, yours look fine, unless you are planning on going deaf with your Statements.

[savage25xtreme]

The red stuff on the inductors is an insulator and must be removed. I highly doubt you got a good solder joint there if the insulation was not removed. The resistors should be fine, but just a few weeks ago there was a post here about a resistor that was covered with hot glue to a board melting while listening at very high volumes, I think on a mini statement design.

[Mrpictureman]

I am looking at securing my crossover to the bottom of the baffle with a nut & bolt as well as securing the base to the bottom of the cabinet with 4 nuts & bolts rather than the drywall screws. I read somewhere that this might interfere with the crossover components? Can someone with strong knowledge of crossovers let me know if it would be okay to use small bolts and if it would in fact change the crossover spec's?

[---k---]

putting iron near the inductors may increase their induction depending on how big the bolts are and how close you put them. I believe that brass bolts do not have issues.

[Mrpictureman]

That's kind of what I read in the one post also, Can anyone else confirm this with iron or brass? Brass would be fine if Home Depot /Lowes has them?

[Mrpictureman]

It has been a while since my last update. Work got the best of me darn it. Had to travel to San Diego for 6 days then Modesto and Fresno. I am pleased to say the Statements are up and running. No finish yet still raw MDF. I also clamped the front baffle on for a bit instead of glue to monitor the crossovers, so far so good. I am back to finishing up the 2rcc. Crossover finished today sonic barrier installed just need to glue on the top, seal the speakers screw them in and attach the wires to the speakers. I will clamp the baffle on for a tad to watch the crossover and make sure everything works. I only used glue on the caps none on the resistors. Pictures to come. I kind of got side tracked on the pictures.

So far I am very pleased with the Statements especially for my first build. They sound great even without the mid tunnel foam. I will add the foam as soon as I finish the cc.

While in San Diego I found a couple of High end stereo stores and had to go in an check out the speakers. I auditioned some Sonus Fabers Vandersteens and $5000 Revels. The only ones I half way liked were the Sonus Fabers. Unfortunately they were not setup correctly so it was hard to tell anything.

The next store had it all. I auditioned the Ariels $10,000, B&W Diamond series towers $15,000 and the brand new Wilson Sophia $16,700 Boulder equipment powering them. First off I really did not like the B&W's there was no punch to them and they were power hungry. The ariels Sounded very nice highs were perfect base tight a really nice sounding speaker. I also auditioned the Wilson Sophia's They were not quite broken in but what a speaker. It was a pleasure listening to them they just came alive. It did not matter what I threw at them CD's Vinyl rock, Elvis Vinyl even Al Jolsons greatest hits. They were fantastic.

Once I got home I was encourage to finish the Statements for comparison. I was amazed at the sound. Simply put they are best compared to the Ariel Towers. Not quite up to the Sophia's but I don't have Boulder amps and ARYE cd player.

I am powering the Statements with a Denon 3802 with an SAE A201 amp I had stored. I can't wait to finish the CC. One thing I did notice and as I see others builds is putting them anywhere near a window will do nothing to keep the sound in. I blacked out a window for my theater but now it looks like I will have to some how close that up to keep the sound in. I am sure the other speakers did the same I am shocked my neighbors have not pounded on my door the last couple of years, Now I feel bad for them. I don't listen loud but sound carriers.

One more thought. The guy that pumped 500 watts into these babies and burnt up his crossover must be deaf by now. I have pumped a pretty good 100 watt SAE amp into these speakers and no way could I comfortably crank the volume up that loud?

[deewan]

One more thought. The guy that pumped 500 watts into these babies and burnt up his crossover must be deaf by now. I have pumped a pretty good 100 watt SAE amp into these speakers and no way could I comfortably crank the volume up that loud?

Just remember that 500-watts does nto mean they play 5 times louder than a 100 watt amp. I think it takes something like 10 times the amount of power to play twice as loud... or something like that.

As for the window, you could do something like me. I took OC703, mdf, and some leftover fabric. I cut the mdf to the size of the interior window. Attached the OC703 to one side of the mdf, and then wrapped (covered) the OC703 with the fabric. From the outside of the house looking in, all you see is the fabric. From inside the room, you see the backside of a flat piece of mdf I painted the same color as my walls. I did put two small handles on the mdf for emergency exits from the theater. You know, in case I start the crossovers on fire.

[Mrpictureman]

I was thinking the same thing about the OC 703 did that make a big difference in sound leaking through the window? What about the sound from the speakers any changes to them? Hey by the way my friend thanks for all your help as well as Frodaddy and Curt getting these up and running.

[deewan]

The MDF and OC703 combination I felt worked well. The MDF created a flat front wall so the sound from the midtunnels didn't get stuck in the window well. The OC703 made the window more energy efficient since we have cold winters here in Iowa. I can't say it totally killed the sound leaking to the outside, but it greatly reduced the sound leaking to the outside. I used weather stripping around the edge of the MFD for a snug fit and I think that helped as well. It also helped since I wanted my theater completely dark. No light comes through that window anymore.

You’re welcome for the help. I have received so much help from other members on this forum and others that I feel like I am finally giving something back.

[looneybomber]

It has been a while since my last update...I am pleased to say the Statements are up and running.

I think you need to change your screen name. There's not many pictures in this thread :??

[FroDaddy]

I was thinking the same thing about the OC 703 did that make a big difference in sound leaking through the window? What about the sound from the speakers any changes to them? Hey by the way my friend thanks for all your help as well as Frodaddy and Curt getting these up and running.

Glad I could help!

[tony_M]

Thanks Thomas

Jed I ordered straight from Jim's links for the 2 in wedge foam and the 1 in foam for the mid tunnels

Can you pls give me the link to Jim Foam??

tks

[Mrpictureman]

Tony M

Had to really search for it. I built mine last summer so it was not fresh in my mind it is in Mission Accomplished thread https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28728
Post 1106

I'd suggest that you line the walls of the woofer (RS225) areas of the cabinet with either 2" foam available from Foam by Mail and other places or 2" unbacked fiberglass from Home Depot or similar home stores. Do not use fill in the woofer chamber. The mid tunnels are lined with 1" foam also available from Foam by Mail or Hobby Lobby. Please search the many build threads for specific instructions on how to position the mid tunnel foam.

and Post 99

I've only used foam. I've used the eggcrate foam that PE sells, Whispermat, Blackhole5 and most recently I've switched to wedgefoam from Foam by Mail http://www.foambymail.com/Wedge.html so I'm not the one to answer about which fiberglass to use. The reason I suggested fiberglass as an alternative is because foam loses it's effectiveness at lower frequencies more than fiberglass does. The bass is very well controlled to my ears but fiberglass might be better. Perhaps that might be a good post for the forum to find out exactly what others are using and prefer.

Jim

[tony_M]

Mike, how may foam you need this statement (both 2 and 1 inch)
Also I PM you, I hope I can contact you and see your statement

[Mrpictureman]

Tony

I ordered,

Acoustic Foam - Wedge
48" x 72" x 2" (Single)
Covers 24 sq. ft.

and for 1"

Half Sheet
72" x 40"