Mark's Statements Build Thread

[Jim Holtz]

Hey guys,

I have a couple questions on the foam used for the inside of the midrange tunnels:

1 - It is 1 inch thick open cell foam... Cut the end closest to the driver at a 45 degree angle... Pull the foam a couple inches away from the driver... Just want to confirm those instructions...

2 - In one post Curt describes cutting 5" strips for the top and bottom of the chamber and then 3.5" strips for the sides... 1" + 1" + 3.5" is greater than 5"... Is this extra thickness to "squeeze" the foam in place??? Or, is it just a typo???

3 - Does anybody have any recommendations for "local" companies that would sell this foam??? I called our local Jo Anne's Fabric and Michael's Hobby and the people on the phone were less than helpful...

4 - Anybody have an tips/tricks/recommendations on this step of the process???

I am really trying to get this in black but it seems the people I call only have it in yellow or white or green...

Thanks!!!

Mark

Hi Mark,

I think I can help you out with these questions.

1. Yes, that is exactly correct.

2. 3" to 3 1/2" so it'll stay in place and support the top foam. No rocket science on this one, just a little trial and error. Close works.

3. Try Hobby Lobby if you have one in town. The foam you're looking for is in the upholstery section of the store. They use it in cushions etc. which the clerks won't know is open cell foam. I've never seen black so you'll probably have to settle as I did with white, yellow and green. I put a grill over the back openings on the Mini's and Monitors.

This step is pretty straight forward so there really aren't any tips or tricks to it. Just measure, cut and fit if necessary. An electric knife is the tool of choice for cutting foam. :T

HTH

Jim

[mlammert]

Ah!!!

Hobby Lobby... Completely forgot about them... There is one close to my house... I will check with them...

I like the idea of a grill but with the backs of my speakers being curved, it might take me a while to fabricate one...

I could always order some from Foam By Mail as well; if I want to wait for black...

Could I spray paint the foam black??? That might be a really dumb question... :P

Mark

[Jim Holtz]

Ah!!!

Hobby Lobby... Completely forgot about them... There is one close to my house... I will check with them...

I like the idea of a grill but with the backs of my speakers being curved, it might take me a while to fabricate one...

I could always order some from Foam By Mail as well; if I want to wait for black...

Could I spray paint the foam black??? That might be a really dumb question... :P

Mark

Hi Mark,

I wouldn't paint it but black dye should work. I don't think Foam by Mail sells flat 1" foam which works the best and is what Curt used to develop the crossovers. Hobby Lobby is your best source. That's where I bought mine.

Jim

[mlammert]

Cool, thanks for your insight, Jim!!!

I'll stop by Hobby Lobby either tonight or tomorrow night...

I'll go with whatever color they have and possibly play around with dying it black at a later time... :P

It is quite possible that I will be listening to these either Wednesday or Thursday!!! :B

Mark

[mlammert]

Some more good progress last night...

I got the second speaker all sanded down and it looks great...

I also stopped by Hobby Lobby and bought the foam for the midrange tunnels...

Attached is a picture of it... They had 12" x 12" x 1" sheets... But, by the time I would have bought enough to line the tunnels it was only like $2 more to buy a whole role of it...

Since I have so much extra now, I am definitely going to experiment with dying the foam black... We'll see... :P

Mark

[brijenjas]

Hi Mark,

I wouldn't paint it but black dye should work. I don't think Foam by Mail sells flat 1" foam which works the best and is what Curt used to develop the crossovers. Hobby Lobby is your best source. That's where I bought mine.

Jim

Foam by mail has some flat 1" flat charcoal foam.

http://www.foambymail.com/CharcoalFoam.html

specs;

http://www.foambymail.com/FoamSpecs.html#Charcoal%20Regular

This is what I used for the mids, hope it's the right stuff 8O

[Jim Holtz]

Foam by mail has some flat 1" flat charcoal foam.

http://www.foambymail.com/CharcoalFoam.html

specs;

http://www.foambymail.com/FoamSpecs.html#Charcoal%20Regular

This is what I used for the mids, hope it's the right stuff 8O

Yes, you did use the right foam. Somehow I missed the fact that Foam by Mail does carry 1" foam. ops:

Thanks for bringing it to my attention! :T

Jim

[mikela]

This is what I used for the mids, hope it's the right stuff 8O

I used it for my LCR build...worked fine. :T

[mlammert]

Hey guys,

A little more sanding was done last night... Just a little more tonight and I think we will be good...

Also, I think I have finalized a speaker foot idea...

It is not very different than my first idea, but I really wanted something that will make the speakers look like they are "floating"...

Picture one shows the new proposed size/shape of the foot (bright green)... Notice it stops at the edge of the rear curve and the front baffle and overlaps the side walls... The angled sides of the foot would be approximately 1/8" inch from the edge of the side walls... This will match the 1/8" rabbet I have routed around the rear curve and front baffle...

This should also give plenty of support to the side walls (if they need it - since some people said they did and others said they did not)...

Picture two shows a side view of what the foot would look like... It will be made from 3/4" MDF...

I think for now I am just going to use some screws to attach it... That way I can remove it and change it around a bit if I desire to in the future...

I'll make and attach these tonight...

A buddy of mine is going to come over on Saturday to haul these things up stairs and do some listening... :B

Thanks,
Mark

[mlammert]

Well, with my wife's help we were able to get the speakers completely puttied and sanded down earlier tonight... They turned out really well... There are a few little places that aren't perfect but I am pretty sure I will be the one one to notice the few things...

I have the holes in the midrange tunnels for the speaker wire all siliconed up...

And, I attached the feet to the speakers...

My buddy is coming over early tomorrow morning to help me carry them upstairs and connect them to the amp and crossovers...

I will install the actual drivers and midrange foam once we have all the dust wiped off of them and they are upstairs...

Then hopefully sit back, relax, listen and enjoy!!! :B

I'll post results and pictures tomorrow...

Thanks,
Mark

[David_D]

Well....
How are the tunes, Mark?

[mlammert]

We have music!!!

:B :T :B :T :B :T :B :T :B :T :B :T :B

Current setup:

Source is the OPPO 980-H which is connected directly to the Emotiva XPA-2 amplifier which is then connected to the external crossovers and then to the respective speakers... All wiring is Bluejean 12 gauge...

I have the speakers about 6" from the actual wall... But, we have a box bay window with is approximately 12"-16" deep... So, the midrange chambers are about 18"-24" from a vertical surface... The box bay window has wood blinds and plants within it... See pictures for details...

First impressions and one issue:

One issue that I have is last night I applied silicone to the wire holes that go through the midrange chambers... Oddly, it is still not dry and is actually quit sticky still... This is very weird because it is a relatively new tube of silicone (GE Silicone II)... So, I have not places the foam into the midrange chambers yet...

So, I know the music I am hearing now is no where near the quality it should be...

That being said, even in their "crippled" state these things sound simply amazing...

Things that I am quite impressed with are:

1 - The ability to pick out where singers and instruments are...

2 - The 3-dimensional sound stage and the depth of the sound stage are incredible...

3 - This is the first time that I have ever been able to close my eyes and simply forget that there are speakers in the room... It is quite the experience if you have never heard these quality of speakers before...

4 - The bass is super tight and super low... The tweeters are crystal clear...

Things that I am going to enhance:

1 - I gotta figure out what is going on with the silicone so that I can properly put the foam into place...

2 - I think I am going to remove the woofers and trim a little bit off the insulation off the side walls close tot he front baffle... I think it might slightly be "muffling" the woofers...

My big concern is the midrange foam... Again, I have no clue why the silicone is not drying and I want to get that foam in there so that I can listen to these things the way they were meant to be...

Right now without the foam there is this "lacking" quality to the overall sound experience... The overall sound and stage are incredible but the midrange (and therefore the entire experience) just doesn't seem to be "alive"...

Again, if they sound this good without the foam I simply cannot imagine what they will sound like once I get that installed...

Attached are some various photos of the setup... As you can see the next steps are finishing and boxes for the crossovers...

If anybody has any setup critiques or suggestions or advise on any improvement (if any) I would greatly appreciate it...

Thanks guys...

I will keep updating on the progress...

Mark

[David_D]

WOW!
Mark, you have a GREAT wife!

[mlammert]

Yeah, she is super proud of the speakers... She is the "finisher" of the family so she will be in charge of paint and stain... I will help obviously...

One thing that she has said about the speakers is that typically she HATES bass... But, she said with these speakers the bass actually adds to the experience of the music and is so "clean" in her words... She said it enables her to hear songs in a whole new fashion now...

That is a HUGE compliment coming from her novice ears... :B

Another thing I have realized is that even in other rooms (especially our kitchen which is attached to our living room and dining room) the sound is SO enveloping... I mean the sweet spot is obvious center stage... But, the music is so embracing and live throughout the adjacent rooms...

Mark

[Dennis H]

One thing that she has said about the speakers is that typically she HATES bass... But, she said with these speakers the bass actually adds to the experience of the music and is so "clean" in her words... She said it enables her to hear songs in a whole new fashion now...

That is a HUGE compliment coming from her novice ears... :B

Sounds like your wife's ears are pretty good -- she's a keeper! She likes good bass and hates bad bass. With so many 'thump-thump-boom' cars driving down the street, it would be easy to hate bass if you hadn't heard it done right.

[mlammert]

I agree, Dennis...

Well, I did some research and apparently there have been quite a few people getting bad batches of GE Silicone II...

The FAQ on their web site state that if the silicone will not cure to scrape as much off as possible and then wipe down with rubbing alcohol...

So, I have removed the midrange drivers and scraped and wiped off and dug out as much of the silicone as possible and then wiped down the whole area with rubbing alcohol...

The first one I did seems to be pretty good as there is no oily or slimy residue left after using the rubbing alcohol...

I am going to let all of them dry for a while and try sealing up the midrange wire holes with some liquid nail before I goto bed tonight...

That should be dry by tomorrow morning and then I can install the foam and really get a true listening impression... :B

Mark

[mlammert]

Well, the "bad" silicone came off nicely and the liquid nail is drying perfectly...

I want it to dry a little more before I install the foam for the mid tunnels...

Quick question; probably over thinking this, but:

When I go to cut the foam for the lining of the midrange tunnels I am wondering how to get it around the wires that go through the wall of the mid tunnel for the midrange drivers...

Should I (A) cut a slit down the middle of the foam to slide the speaker wire through??? Or, (B) cut a hole in the foam for the speaker wire to pass through??? Or, (C) does it really not matter???

Thanks guys!!!

Mark

[Jim Holtz]

Well, the "bad" silicone came off nicely and the liquid nail is drying perfectly...

I want it to dry a little more before I install the foam for the mid tunnels...

Quick question; probably over thinking this, but:

When I go to cut the foam for the lining of the midrange tunnels I am wondering how to get it around the wires that go through the wall of the mid tunnel for the midrange drivers...

Should I (A) cut a slit down the middle of the foam to slide the speaker wire through??? Or, (B) cut a hole in the foam for the speaker wire to pass through??? Or, (C) does it really not matter???

Thanks guys!!!

Mark

Hi Mark,

Either way will be fine. I usually just guide the wires to the corner and run them down the "V" where the side and bottom meet and then bring them back to the middle near the driver to attach to the driver terminals.

Also, some thoughts on set up. I'd suggest you play with positioning. Based on your pictures, the mids are shooting straight back to the glass (extremely reflective) and the sound is being "cupped" by the window well. If you can, try moving the speakers so they're further apart with the back of the speaker about 18" from a flat wall so the sound can be reflected from both sides of the speaker rather than being directed to the center between the speakers. I hope that makes sense.

Also, let them play for several hours. They'll sound different and better after 20 hours than they do when you first fire them up for some reason. I usually just let them play all day before really spending any time listening.

What are using for reference CD's? Be aware, there are very, very few well recorded rock CD's. Old rock is horrible and newer stuff isn't much better. However, there are many great jazz, blues, gospel and folk CD's that provide the "wow" realism that a good system provides. That said, I have the Oppo 980 and its a good player. Not great but good. I recently added a Pacific Valve Lite Audio DAC 62 to my system and it now has that "wow" experience every time with good recordings. In other words, different electronics will make a difference as you build your system. You have a great amp and an excellent DVD player that can also be used as a great transport.

HTH

Jim

[Sefferdog]

Wow, those things are huge!!! What an awesome job. They look fantastic.

I remember the elation I felt when I first fired mine up. It is the same feeling I get EVERY TIME I fire them up to this day.

Jim, Curt, and Wayne nailed it to the wall with this design.

[mlammert]

Well, I got the foam installed in the midrange tunnels last night...

Attached are a couple pictures showing how I cut it and the tools I used...

I ended up pulling the 45 degree end back from the drivers about 2 inches... I might try pulling it back another inch or so to see if it changes the sound significantly...

I cut two pieces of foam at 5 1/8" wide (top and bottom) and two at 3 1/8" wide (sides) for each tunnel... This worked perfectly to create just enough friction to hold the foam in place...

The change in audio quality is simply amazing once the foam was in place... Again, even my wife could hear an audible difference...

Thanks,
Mark

[mlammert]

I'd suggest you play with positioning. Based on your pictures, the mids are shooting straight back to the glass (extremely reflective) and the sound is being "cupped" by the window well. If you can, try moving the speakers so they're further apart with the back of the speaker about 18" from a flat wall so the sound can be reflected from both sides of the speaker rather than being directed to the center between the speakers. I hope that makes sense.

Jim, yes, this make sense... Unfortunately, right now I am kind of stuck with the current setup as is... I have closed the blinds while listening to the speakers and I think I can tell a distinct difference between the blinds open and the blinds closed... I know having the speakers further apart is desirable, but I tried pulling them a little closer so that there would be more room to the left and right of the speaker in correlation to the "box" of the bay window... My thinking is that this would allow the speakers to reflect out of the "box" bay on their left and right more... I hope that made sense... :P

If it is okay, maybe after the holidays (tree is out of the room and furniture is back to normal positions) I will hit you up for some specific positioning questions... I have some ideas that I need to run by the wife first...

Also, let them play for several hours. They'll sound different and better after 20 hours than they do when you first fire them up for some reason. I usually just let them play all day before really spending any time listening.

Will do...

What are using for reference CD's?

Right now I have been using some HDCD Paula Cole CDs... They sound amazing and I am quite happy...

Some listening impressions after putting the foam in:

1 - One thing that is very amazing is that not only can you tell instrument and voice positioning left to right; you can also tell it front to back and hear the "layers" of the voices and instruments forwards and backwards...

2 - Everything seems very well in "balance" with each other... As my wife commented, she can now understand words and lyrics that she never could before... The voice is not muddied or over powered by other instruments... Everything is very equal and balanced...

3 - I said this before but it is even more apparent now; the music does not sound like it is coming from the speakers at all... It is simply amazing... It is as if the music is just floating in the air and the speakers are just standing there not doing anything... This experience alone is worth building these speakers...

4 - The bass is quite incredible... Tight... Well controlled... Not harsh or boomy or muddy... I have heard (and felt) bass in songs that I never knew was there before... And, again, it is quite layered... You will hear (and feel) the bass but then also hear other bass instruments all at once in difference positions... Quite cool... And, as mentioned in #2, you get all this bass without it being loud and without it overpowering any other aspect of the music...

Thanks Jim and thanks to everyone else...

I still have some work to do on these and will be posting updates as I go...

Mark

[Jim Holtz]

Hi Mark,

You're hearing exactly what you should when everything is right. :T

Excellent craftsmanship and a great thread!

Jim

[TacoD]

Wow I get a smile on my face when others are also enjoying their builds

[Dean100]

Congrats! Great build thread. Nothing more exciting than getting to hear your speakers after all of the time spent on the actual build.

There are simply some great people and designs here at HTGuide who will share there knowledge unselfishly. :T

[mikela]

Wow I get a smile on my face when others are also enjoying their builds

Ditto!

I had a similar experience with my sealed versions. It took me awhile to figure out that Foambymail had the 1" foam, so I spent a couple of weeks listening without it. Even so, I thought they sounded pretty damn good. My jaw dropped when I finally got the foam installed.

Mike

[mlammert]

That all sounds awesome guys!!!

Thank you SO much for the compliments and the support!!!

It is cool to hear from others who have had similar experiences... :P

Tonight I started cutting out all the parts for the crossover boxes... I should hopefully have some good progress and pictures by the middle/end of this week...

It is hard to find time to work on stuff when all I want to do is listen...

I really want to start painting and staining; but I think I need to calm myself and wait till after the holidays... I have asked a lot of wife as of recent with the speakers and I don't want to push my luck...

She wanted to listen to one of our home made mixed Christmas carol CDs and it still amazes me how good these things sound even with less than desirable recordings... :B

More soon...

Mark

[impala454]

It is hard to find time to work on stuff when all I want to do is listen...

haha this was my problem, don't give in! :B

[mlammert]

Made some progress on the crossover boxes...

Attached are some pictures of the parts I will be using:

Photo one shows the sides that I cut... The thin rabbet is fr the plexi to slide into and the thick rabbet is for the base of the crossover network to slide into...

Photo two shows the plexi I bought...

And, photo three shows the strips that will make up the "feet" of the crossover boxes... The speakers have a 3/4" piece of MDF as a foot that is slightly recessed from the edge of the speaker... These small pieces will end up being 3/4" high and also be recessed from the edge of the crossover boxes to match the speakers...

The feet will be black, the inside will be black and the outside will be veneered with the leftovers from the speakers (when I get that far)...

More soon,
Mark

[mlammert]

Extended Listing Session #1

Last night I got a chance to sit and enjoy the Statements while I ate dinner and relaxed... The Statements might have 2-3 hours of play time so far...

HDCD #1 - Paula Cole's This Fire (extremely well recorded)

http://www.pandora.com/music/album/paula+cole/this+fire

Very dynamic album... I made several comments on this in my previous listening post but I just had to listen to it again... The speakers literally disappear... There is simply a veil of music hanging in the room... The instruments are clearly defined in all three X, Y, and Z axises of the sound stage... The sound goes well beyond the physical placement of the speakers...

FWIW, I am a HUGE fan of the HDCD format... Even in a non-HDCD player I feel these CDs sound better than normal CDs due to their stringent recording criteria... I really don't think that I can personally tell the difference between a 20-bit HDCD and a 16-bit CD -- when it comes to bits... But, again, just the superior recording criteria makes the listening experience of an HDCD well worth it... And, from my experience, they cost the same as a normal CD...

CD #2 - Susan Vega's Nine Objects of Desire (above average recording)

http://www.pandora.com/music/album/suzanne+vega/9+objects+of+desire

This is a bit bass heavy album but the Statements handled it quite well... Tight and clean... Again, still amazed at hearing things I have never heard before... And, the layering of the bass where you can have a deep humm-like sound and right on top of that a nice crisp drum beat with no muddying... Nice... 8)

I found on this album that the 3-dimensionality of the music was "smaller"... The music still seemed to just float there which is WAY cool... But the music definitely stopped at the edge of the physical speakers... There was definite X and Y placement of sounds but the Z was more limited and shallow...

Do not read this as a negativity of the speakers... No, quite on the contrary this is just a critique of how various recording qualities sound on the Statements... Again, and I must stress this, the sound and listening experience was quite phenomenal...

CD #3 - Poe's Hello (typical rock album)

http://www.pandora.com/music/album/poe/hello

I would classify this album as a rock/techo/pop album... Very diverse range of songs and instruments... She has an amazing voice in my opinion...

The sound of this album was again slightly diminished along the lines of CD #2... The sound stage again stopped right at the speakers and there was little to no Y and Z to the music... Left to right (X) placement was excellent except again the music stops right at the edge of the speakers...

The quality of the music was top notch as with all my experiences with the Statements... The dynamic range, the control, the preciseness; all top notch...

At certain points I am pretty sure I could hear the musician resting their fingers on the keyboard keys and other various sound effects that I was never aware of...

The last song on the album (Fly Away) literally made the hair on the back of my neck stand up...

Extended Listing Session #1 - Summary

The Statements are simply phenomenal and the more I listen the more I am impressed...

Well recorded music excels beyond what words can describe in my opinion... :B Close your eyes, sit back, relax and be taken to a different place... The speakers literally disappear... It is as if they are just wooden boxes sitting in your room... The music hangs in the air like a veil of sound... You have full awareness of the X, Y, and Z placement of instruments and sounds... And, as I have said before, the control over the sound is amazing... Bass is tight and well defined... Midrange is clear and very well produced... Highs are precise and not overbearing or exhaustive... Overall, the music is very "layered" and "open"...

As many people have said, the Statements excel at well recorded music... But, this should by no means scare you into thinking you can only listen to well recorded music... Quite on the contrary... As my above documented experience proved to me, even less than well recorded music still sounds 100x-1000x better than on other speakers...

The main thing I observed as you went down on the recording quality scale was primarily a narrowing of the X, Y, and Z planes of the music...

The bass was still phenomenally tight and accurate... The overall musical and tonal reproduction was amazing... And, just the balance of all the sounds is incredible...

More work to go on the crossover boxes... And, I have confirmed with my wife that we will start painting and staining the week after Christmas...

Mark

[Jim Holtz]

:T

Thank you for the excellent review and comments!

Jim

[mlammert]

Hey guys,

Well, the wife and I were out of town for about 4 days for the Holidays... Went up to Chicago for a mini vacation...

Now that I am back I have been working on the crossover boxes and tweaking the speakers...

Attached are two progress photos of the crossover speakers...

The first shows the rabbet I cut in the "feet" of the crossover boxes... The second picture shows how I glued and clamped the feet to the sides of the crossover boxes...

Once I paint the foot area black and the sides will be veneered and stained they will match the speakers...

Once the glue dries, I will miter the corners and begin assembly...

Mark

[mlammert]

I have also been playing around with the layout of the room...

As Jim was mentioning the speakers are not in the most prime position... And, as the wife has mentioned they are kind of sitting out in the middle of the room...

So, picture Home shows the current room layout... Numbers are inches and everything is extremely close to scale...

As Jim has mentioned the speakers are being "tunneled" by the box bay... And, the right speaker seems slightly louder than the left speaker... I am assuming this is happening due to the right speaker bouncing off the wood corner entertainment center and the left speaker being absorbed by the very squooshy chair... The speakers are also relatively close together with only roughly 60" in between them now...

Also, with the current setup (#1) there is really no good place to sit and be perfectly positioned in the center of the speakers... The very far left of the coach works but you are still about 4-6" inches off center sitting to the far left on the couch...

My best re-arrangement of the room is picture #2...

Here the furniture would basically be flip-flopped... The couch would go in front of the box bay and the speakers would be pushed apart at roughly 130" in between them...

Hopefully they would be much more "balanced" this way with solid walls behind them and more similar acoustics next to them... The only thing I would worry about in the new setup (#2) would be the right speaker would be close to a side wall and the left speaker would be far away from any side wall... The ovals are end tables...

The new setup (#2) would also allow the chair to be moved and be the primary "listening" position - nice and centered between the speakers...

I would assume all these changes would make the speakers sound better and the listening experience more pleasant... Not that it isn't now... :P

Doing this move will be no small task due to having to reposition some shelves on the walls and re-running the cable outlet...

So, before I do all of that for naught, I was hoping I could get some thumbs up or thumbs down on the proposed new layout (#2)... Or, some suggestions on simply tweaking the current layout (#1)...

Again, my primary objectives are:

1 - Better acoustical balance of speakers (currently right speaker sounds slightly louder than left)
2 - Better physical positioning of speakers (in conjunction with objective one)
3 - Better listening experience (in conjunction with objectives one and two)

Thanks guys!!!

And, I hope everyone had a good and safe holiday!!!

Mark

[mlammert]

More progress on the crossover boxes...

These pictures show the three sides glued and clamped together...

The fourth (not pictured) side - which will be the back of the box - will have the binding posts on it and will be removable in case I need to fix/change any of the crossover components in the future...

I have a few ideas I am going to play around with on how I am going to secure the fourth side to the others...

On the second picture you can kind of see how the foot of the box looks when sitting...

Mark

[Jim Holtz]

Hi Mark,

Listening layout #2 looks much better than #1. Ideal is nothing in between them but that's not practical in many/most living rooms.

Jim

[mlammert]

Thanks for the reply and confirmation, Jim... I appreciate it!!!

Do you think that the current layout (#1) could be the cause of the the left speaker sounding "softer" than the right speaker??? Being that the left is next to the fluffy chair and the right is next to the wood entertainment center...

My wife made the comment that the "s" sound seemed harsher on the right speaker than on the left...

I am wrestling in my head whether it is a placement issue or a crossover issue...

However, I think I might not worry about it until I reposition everything in the room for layout #2 as you (Jim) suggested...

On a completely different note, I received the Squeezebox Duet (http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_duet.html) for Christmas this year... Spent a good portion of today setting it up...

It works really awesome once you actually get it working... :P But, it has some oddities that are downright baffling until you figure everything out...

I am impressed with the sound quality coming from streamed MP3s from my iTunes and from services such as Pandora Radio (http://www.pandora.com/)...

Again, you can tell the difference between well recorded tracks (excellent deep enveloping sound) versus not so well recorded tracks (very good but "compressed" sound)...

Thanks again and more progress will be coming on the crossover boxes and painting/staining of the speakers soon...

Mark

[Jim Holtz]

Thanks for the reply and confirmation, Jim... I appreciate it!!!

Do you think that the current layout (#1) could be the cause of the the left speaker sounding "softer" than the right speaker??? Being that the left is next to the fluffy chair and the right is next to the wood entertainment center...

My wife made the comment that the "s" sound seemed harsher on the right speaker than on the left...

I am wrestling in my head whether it is a placement issue or a crossover issue...

However, I think I might not worry about it until I reposition everything in the room for layout #2 as you (Jim) suggested...

On a completely different note, I received the Squeezebox Duet (http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_duet.html) for Christmas this year... Spent a good portion of today setting it up...

It works really awesome once you actually get it working... :P But, it has some oddities that are downright baffling until you figure everything out...

I am impressed with the sound quality coming from streamed MP3s from my iTunes and from services such as Pandora Radio (http://www.pandora.com/)...

Again, you can tell the difference between well recorded tracks (excellent deep enveloping sound) versus not so well recorded tracks (very good but "compressed" sound)...

Thanks again and more progress will be coming on the crossover boxes and painting/staining of the speakers soon...

Mark

Hi Mark,

I'm not sure if the harshness coming from one speaker is caused by placement but it certainly could be. You'll soon know.

I also have a Duet but I just use it as a transport for an external DAC. It's sweet! :T

Jim

[Hdale85]

If one speaker had been playing longer then the other it could be possible that one tweeter is less broken in then the other. I noticed this with my new speakers as I had one done about a week before the other and I just couldn't wait I noticed a rather large difference between the 2 tweeters for the first 10 hours or so of break-in. I never believed tweeters could break in before this If they have been playing the same length of time then very well could be placement or maybe one tweeter doesn't quite measure the same although that would be unlikely. Could very easily be your source as well I've noticed some large differences in my system between different DAC's.

[mlammert]

Thanks Jim and Dougie!!!

Yeah, I am still probably only around 6-8hrs of total break in time...

We are more than likely going to re-arrange the furniture tomorrow so that should tell all as far as the "balance" of the two speakers...

With the new arrangement (#2), do you guys think I should be concerned with the right speaker being next to an adjacent wall (wall to the right and sofa to the left) and the left speaker not (openness to the left and sofa to the right)???

The more you talk about the DAC the more I want one, Jim...

Thanks guys,
Mark

[Jim Holtz]

Thanks Jim and Dougie!!!

Yeah, I am still probably only around 6-8hrs of total break in time...

We are more than likely going to re-arrange the furniture tomorrow so that should tell all as far as the "balance" of the two speakers...

With the new arrangement (#2), do you guys think I should be concerned with the right speaker being next to an adjacent wall (wall to the right and sofa to the left) and the left speaker not (openness to the left and sofa to the right)???

The more you talk about the DAC the more I want one, Jim...

Thanks guys,
Mark

Hi Mark,

Spreading the speakers apart is going to help a lot. I don't think the wall will be a big issue as long as you can get about 18" or more away from it. More is better on the side.

However, we all have to live with in the limitations of our rooms.

I have my Duet feeding a Pacific Valves Lite Audio DAC-62. It's the best sound I've ever had out of my system. I love it! :T

Jim

[Hdale85]

I would definitely recommend a stand alone DAC as well! I use a Twisted Pear Audio dual mono Opus with their Metronome ASRC jitter reduction module and the sound is simply amazing Eventually I'm going to try out their new Buffalo as well but both are excellent DAC's and somewhat a semi DIY and easily affordable. You should check them out as well! The guys that run the little company (if you can call it that as they make little to no money) are excellent and always willing to help out when you need.

http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/digital/opus.aspx

There are many different configurations depending on how you want to go, they show out of stock right now because they are on vacation.

[Rbrockman]

I'll also recommend Twisted Pear for a DAC. I'm running a Duet into a Buffalo DAC and it is both the simplest as well as the best sounding system I've had. I've recently complicated matters with a DCX2496, but that's because I like to tweak....

[mlammert]

Thanks for the comments on the Twisted Pear audio DACs... I don't know if I am up for circuit board soldering... But, I will think about it...

On another note, some more good progress was made on Sunday...

The crossover box shells glued together wonderfully... The attached pictures show the crossover bases slid into the shells just to see how everything would work...

There are still a few finishing touches to put on them: Layout binding posts, route decorative profile, design securing mechanism for back wall, etc... But so far so good...

I also rearranged the entire living room yesterday... Talk about a job...

There were a few points of contention between the wife and I :P , but in the end I think we both came up with a layout that is pleasing and also does wonderfully with the speakers...

Noticeable differences in the speakers:

1 - The sound stage is MUCH wider now and the sound is MUCH more wrapping and enveloping...

2 - The right speaker no longer sounds louder than the left... Voices are typically dead center now...

3 - You REALLY get the full three-dimensionality of the sound with a good recording... Close your eyes and you could swear you were at a live show...

Now that the speakers are not in front of the box bay, I had to bring them out a little further to get the minimum 18" away from the wall... This was a big point of contention between me and my wife; but with a little room treatment and whatnot I think we are both happy... I have a floor lamp diagonal from one of the speakers and it offers a very cool lighting effect with the lights low and listening to the speakers... The rear curve is really accentuated by the low light and I can only imagine what they will look like once they are painted and stained... I am sure my wife will be more pleased once they are painted and stained as well...

Also, on a side note, now that the speakers and amp are in different spots my Bluejean cable is too short for the left speakers... I was going to go to Lowes to just get some cheap temp speaker wire for the time being... But, to my surprise their speaker wire was $0.62 per foot... Geeze... Bluejean was only a couple cents more...

So, I just spliced two strands together for the time being and I am going to order some more Bluejean speaker wire and also get some Bluejean RCA cables as well... Right now I am just using standard RCA cables that came with my Duet and DVD player... ops:

More soon!!!

Mark

[deucelee]

wow, simply rediculous...you surely have a great wife...the speakers are nice too...haha

killer build my man...very inspiring...

can you show a pic of how the foam looks like in the rear for the mids?

again, very nice job... ;x(

when i build my own set, i'll be referencing alot of the posts in this thread...

[mlammert]

Thank you SO much, DeuceLee...

Glad to hear that my build thread will be helpful to you...

I will be sure to take some pictures of the installed mid chamber foam over the New Year holiday and upload them for you...

If you have any other specific questions, do not hesitate to ask...

Good luck!!!

Mark

[mlammert]

Here you go DeuceLee...

Here are two pictures showing the foam in the midrange tunnels from the back of the speakers...

Check out posts 365, 377, and 380 that specifically go over the midrange tunnel foam install...

Again, good luck on your build...

Mark