Mark's Statements Build Thread

[mlammert]

After all that I cut the tops for each speaker...

This turned out to be much more straightforward that I was thinking...

I used the scrap wood that was left over from cutting the angled/beveled top edge of the speakers... That way I already had one side for the top that was at the correct angle and 45 degree bevel... Using those scraps I measured and cut the other side for the tops and they came out perfect...

The first picture below shows the top panel... You will notice the biscuit slots again...

The second picture shows the matching biscuit slots that I cut into the top edges of each speaker... A bit precarious to cut; but they came out awesome...

Now, I must admit at this point I made a very basic goof... :roll: Nothing negative but just not thinking all the way through:

You will notice that I cut three biscuit slots on each side... Well, due to the 45 degree angle on each side there is no way to "slide" the biscuits and tops down into the sides on BOTH sides...

So, even though I didn't need all the biscuits I did use biscuits in one side of the speaker so that they would hold/brace the tops very tightly while I clamped them down...

You can see this in the last two pictures...

Also, since I cut the 45 degree angles with my skill saw (not perfect) I decided to use liquid nail on these joints just in case there were any slight gaps/voids in the joint...

Even more to come shortly...

Mark

[mlammert]

Two more pictures to show the edges of where the tops meet the sides of the speakers...

The camera phone really doesn't do these justice... I think you could cut your finger if you ran it down the edge fast enough... 8O

I am VERY proud of these angles and joints... Very solid, square and tight!!! :B

Due to the fact that the speaker tops are sloped back; after the glue dries I will once again take the belt sander and lightly remove the ever so slight over hang that appears where the top panel meats the perpendicular front and back planes of the speaker...

Off to run some errands...

Thanks guys!!!

Mark

[Hdale85]

Wow those are really looking awesome

[dpc rep]

The build looks like it is going along nicely. I plan on building a pair of Statements sometime in the future, but I just have too many irons in the fire right now. I like to do things differently than most so, consequently, I like your design concept and build. I do not post on here very often, but follow along as I can.

I am by no means a design guru like the likes of Jim and Curt, so anything I build I will follow them (with the exceptions of shape, etc), but I do know a thing or two about finishing and/or painting, since that is how I make my living, more or less. I have refinished my share of MDF, fiberglass, and pretty much anything that couldnt outrun me so if you have any questions when it comes to the finishing stages let me know.

I am looking forward to building a set of Statements myself, since I already have a sub and desperately need some main speakers that can keep up with it.

Keep up the good work!

[mlammert]

Thanks Dougie and DPC REP!!!

DPC REP, I might take you up on the finishing questions once I get that far... Thanks!!!

I made some more good progress on Sunday...

The tops of the speakers dried perfectly and now the clamps are removed...

The next thing is to create the rear curve of the speakers...

My first idea of using a fairing stick to create and draw the curve did work (as seen in the first picture)... However, using the band saw to cut the curve and then sanding the curve down failed miserably... The curve is just too shallow to really get a good consistent smooth curve from any sort of band saw or sanding methods... Maybe a better woodworker could do it - but I cannot... ops:

So, then as I am pondering how to do this, I look across the shop and realize "hey you have a CNC machine that is now actually in working order"...

So, I quickly exported the curve from Google SketchUp, imported it into Adobe Illustrator and then converted it to G-Code to run on the CNC machine...

The CNC machine is not big enough to cut the entire curve in one piece so I made two matching halves that I will join when I make the jig for cutting...

The second and third pictures show the curve being cut on the CNC machine and the last picture shows the final curve cut out... It took the machine 15 minutes to cut each half of the curve...

It came out beautifully!!!

Hopefully this week I will be able to cut out ALL the strips of MDF to create the curve and then this weekend route the curves and glue them together...

More later!!!

Mark

[David_D]

Hi Mark,
Your work is coming out great. That CNC is cool.
Just an idea, I was thinking if you made a jig with two holes for pins. Then using that jig put the two pin holes on all your MDF pieces and the CNC deck. You could use pins in the deck of the CNC table to place & align all the MDF pieces. This would also give you some alignment pin holes for gluing up the pieces. I realize that it would only yield you half pieces but they could always be biscuited together once all the curved slabs are glued. For that matter you could make every other piece 1” shorter and have a number of staggered joints when patching together the two halves.
Sorry for rambling, I don’t quite know if I am conveying this properly.

[mlammert]

Hey David,

Thank you and yes I totally get what you are saying...

The only down fall is that even though I do have the CNC machine up and running now, I do not want to use it for cutting the actual curves...

The CNC machine will take approximately 10 hours to cut the curves for both speaker... And, MDF dust is VERY bad for all the moving parts of the CNC machine... I try very hard to limit the amount of MDF I cut using the machine... I even cover the machine when I am cutting MDF on the table saw, router, etc...

Keeping these two factors in mind is why I decided to cut just the curve template using the CNC machine and I used pine to make the template... Using my router/pattern bit and the template I should be able to cut all the curves out in no time...

I love the idea of the alignment pins and I will definitely be taking advantage of that advice...

Thanks!!!

Mark

[David_D]

I surely understand about the MDF dust.
Lots of luck, Mark.
I can't wait to see the next steps. You are very inspiring.

[BobEllis]

Hey Mark, Are you sure that you want to use soft pine for your pattern? I'd consider poplar or other inexpensive hardwood to avoid the possibility of the pattern changing shape.

Good luck with this project

[mlammert]

Thanks a lot David...

Good point, Bob... Yeah, I just cut the templates out of whatever scrap I had laying around...

Hopefully, since I just have to cut 20 curves total, the pine will hold up... :P

It is "clear" pine which I have found to be more durable than normal "knotty" pine... So, we'll see...

Thanks guys!!!

Mark

[mlammert]

More good progress made!!!

I have all the 3/4" and 1/2" MDF strips cut that I will use to laminate together for the rear curve...

Picture one and two show the stacks of strips:
12 - 3/4" strips
10 - 1/2" strips

I have a pile of MDF dust in my garage about 4 inches deep... 8O

The third pictures shows the jig I made to trace and route the curve template onto the strips...

Once the jig dries (I glued and screwed it) I will use it to trace the curve onto the strips...

Then make a rough cut on the band saw... After that is the routing and the gluing... Sweet!!!

Hopefully more to come this weekend... I don't know though due to a big Halloween party we are going to... I am going as Louis Tully shortly after he has been turned into Vinz Clortho, the Keymaster... :P Should be fun...

Later,
Mark

[mlammert]

Couple questions for you guys as I make more progress...

1) What is the best/recommended way to secure the strips of MDF to the curve template for routing??? I can't really "clamp" them due to the router needing to slide along the edge... I was thinking of the double-sided carpet tape method... Anybody have any proven experiences???

2) I am more than likely going to order all the speakers and crossover components next week as I will be working on the front baffles in the next week or so... Are there any gotchas or anything special I should be aware of before placing my order???

Thanks guys!!! Your advice and opinions are greatly appreciated!!!

Mark

[Dennis H]

You don't have many pieces to cut so I'd just move the clamps as the router passes by. It will only add a few minutes to your total trim time -- a few seconds for each move. If you were doing 1000 pieces, you might need to come up with something more elegant.

[mlammert]

Thanks for the reality check, Dennis... I was way over-thinking the whole thing... :P

Yep, if I just clamp them down and then swap clamps as I go I should be cool...

Last night I traced all the curves onto the strips...

So, just a quick rough cut on the band saw and then route the final curve and I should be good to go...

Hopefully I will have two curves glued and clamped by the end of this weekend!!!

BTW, anybody have any advice on when I order my electronic parts???

Thanks as always,
Mark

[David_D]

Hi Mark.
Here I was thinking again.
If you are serious about some alignment pins for gluing, this might be a good time to drop them in. (Transferring the holes from the same one jig) For that matter, if you actually pin the jig to the MDF and then the clamps are merely a formality.

[Hdale85]

I like Davids idea. Would work perfectly.

[mlammert]

Hey guys,

Here is some more updates and photos...

Photo 1 shows all the scraps of the rough cut curves... 22 of them in total... Did the rough cut on the band saw... Went smooth and quickly...

Photos 2 and 3 show my original curve template screwed to a straight 2x4 and then clamped to the edge of the table saw to use as a work surface...

After a bit of contemplating we found that the template worked MUCH better on its side...

BTW, we did try David's dowel idea... It did indeed work very well... However with the drilling inserting and removal of several dowels per curve piece it just simply took too much time...

The way we ended up doing things was I stood on one side of the template and held the router and routed down the curve of the template... My buddy was on the other side of the template and simple swapped out hand clamps as I smoothly routed down the edge of the template... Took just over a minute per curve...

Photo 4 shows the end result of a routed curve piece next to the template... Darn near perfect...

Photo 5 shows the how the router was held on its side and simply road down the side of the template...

All in all it was a very productive and straightforward day... :T

The most annoying thing was going out to purchase the pattern router bit... Had to go to two different places to find one and still could only find a 1/4" shank bit... But, for $13 bucks it did its job well...

I also bought a 3 1/2" hole saw for the ports...

I will update with more pictures tonight as a start gluing together the curve pieces!!!

Oh and I think I have decided to veneer the speakers... The wife said she will be MUCH happier if the speakers (at least the sides) could be stained...

So, if anyone has any links to some good veneering info I would greatly appreciate it...

Thanks guys!!!

Mark

[Hdale85]

joewoodworker.com

Also get their heatlock glue it's supposed to make things much much easier. I have a gallon of it sitting here waiting for my cabinets so I can't say from a first hand experience yet. But there is quite a bit of info there. Also they have pre sharpened veneer saws that are pretty nice.

[mlammert]

Thanks for the link Dougie... That is just what I needed... :T

Here are two more pictures of the curves being glues together...

I only have enough clamps to do one side at a time...

So, I am clamping two 1 inch strips together and one 5 inch strip together...

Once the glue dries I will cut appropriately and then glue the three strips together to form the back of the speaker...

The curves came out super smooth and should require minimal sanding to achieve a nice uniform surface...

Thanks!!!

Mark

[Hdale85]

Well as nice as all that looks.... that looks like a crazy amount of work.

[mlammert]

Thanks Dougie...

Actually, the curves were much easier and faster than I originally expected...

Now that I think back on it; cutting out all the bracing was a LOT of work... :P

More soon,
Mark

[mlammert]

Hey guys,

Getting ready to place my order later this afternoon...

I am ordering the speakers, crossover components, bind posts, and spikes from Parts Express...

Can anyone think of anything else I might need to get from Parts Express before I place the order???

Also, I noticed that Madisound offers a black and silver version of the NeoCD3.0 tweeter... Anybody ever use the "silver" one and know if it would look good matched with the "silver" of the Tangbang's???

Ports will be PVC and bolts to attach speakers to cabinets will be from local hardware...

I personally cannot think of anything else...

Any comments or suggestions are appreciated...

Thanks!!!

Mark

[Jim Holtz]

Hey guys,

Getting ready to place my order later this afternoon...

I am ordering the speakers, crossover components, bind posts, and spikes from Parts Express...

Can anyone think of anything else I might need to get from Parts Express before I place the order???

Also, I noticed that Madisound offers a black and silver version of the NeoCD3.0 tweeter... Anybody ever use the "silver" one and know if it would look good matched with the "silver" of the Tangbang's???

Ports will be PVC and bolts to attach speakers to cabinets will be from local hardware...

I personally cannot think of anything else...

Any comments or suggestions are appreciated...

Thanks!!!

Mark

Hi Mark,

I'd suggest getting the nice gold plated solderless terminals from Madisound for all the drivers when you order the ribbons.

Have you decided what to line the RS225 compartments of the cabinet with yet? I've used foam in the past and recently used 2" thick fiberglass from Home depot in a small project I helped some friends with. It worked well and was very inexpensive.

Jim

[mlammert]

Hey Jim,

Thanks for the quick response...

I have been thinking a little of what I am going to line the speakers with... I was hoping I could use fiberglass from one of the box stores; and your confirmation of that makes me very happy...

I will look into the terminals as well...

Thank you!!!

Mark

[Paul Ebert]

Jim,

Was this 2" fiberglass the standard "fluffy" insulating material or is it some sort of (semi-)solid material? I'm looking for a lining material as well.

Thanks.

[Jim Holtz]

Jim,

Was this 2" fiberglass the standard "fluffy" insulating material or is it some sort of (semi-)solid material? I'm looking for a lining material as well.

Thanks.

Hi Paul,

It was just the standard fluffy stuff. The rigid type has to be ordered, in Des Moines anyway.

Jim

[mlammert]

Hey guys,

Here is another update...

The first set of curves were successfully glued up...

The first picture shows the results of the glue up... The curves are very uniform and for the most part very smooth... The "lines" that you see are mostly glue squeeze out... Nothing that a bit of scraping and a little work with the orbital sander can't take care of...

The second picture is the second set of curves being glued up...

So far so good...

After all this I just need to saw them appropriately using the miter saw...

More to come!!!

Mark

[impala454]

Looking good Mark. I envy you for your patience.

[mlammert]

Thanks Chuck!!!

Believe me; I am getting anxious as I can now start to see the light at the end of the tunnel...

I placed my Parts Express order late yesterday... Man, the prices went way up on some of those items... I suppose it is the copper... I am waiting on the Madisound order until I can decide if I want the black or silver tweeters...

Hopefully more progress will be made tonight...

Thanks!!!

Mark

[Hdale85]

Black for sure

[mlammert]

Thanks Dougie...

You are about the fourth person who has chosen "black"... :P

Looks like I will be placing that order later this afternoon...

BTW, the second glue up of the curves from last night came out real nice this morning...

Been doing veneering research while the glue dries...

Thanks,
Mark

[Hdale85]

Well I feel the W4's add just the right amount of silver to the equation.

[mlammert]

I am VERY VERY happy right now!!!

One of my big concerns was how good the curves were going to come out...

Well, I just got finished sanding them and they turned out awesome!!!

They are as smooth as a baby's butt...

The first pictures shows all the pieces of both curves clamped together in order... Whenever I cut multiples of the same curve I like to clamp them together when sanding so that they all come out uniform...

After I did a decent job sanding all the curves together, I then clamped just the curves for one speaker together and repeated the process... This is show in the second picture...

The third picture shows a little trick I use where you scribble a pencil on the surface you are sanding... Sand just enough to erase the pencil and you will see where you have low and high spots where the pencil erases and doesn't erase... This also prevents you from over sanding and area... Works like a charm...

The forth pictures shows all the curves lined up after the sanding process...

The last photo didn't come out too well but is supposed to show how smooth the curves are...

Now all I have to do is cut the holes out for the ports and the midrange chambers and trim the end of the curves...

Once that is done I will glue the curve pieces together and then give it one more final light sanding...

More soon!!!

Mark

[Hdale85]

Those panels have to weight a good bit... I hop you put some casters or build some caster bases to roll these monsters on. Probably going to weight like 200lbs. They look awesome though

[mlammert]

Thanks Dougie!!!

Yeah, the curved panels are heavy but not as heavy as I would have thought... They are 7" wide by 72 1/4" tall and are 2 1/2" inches thick at the widest and 1 1/4" thick at the skinniest...

If I had to guess I would say each panel is around 20lbs...

I have a dolly and some furniture rollers if needed... :P

Mark

[mlammert]

Hey guys,

I have some questions now that I am getting to the actual "assembly" phase of the speakers...

INTERNAL DAMPENING (Pink Fiberglass as Approved by Jim)

1) Do you use paper backed or regular fiberglass insulation???

2) What is the best way to secure it to the walls???

3) I know Jim said 2" fiberglass - for the life of me I couldn't find anything that said 2 inches at my local Lowes... Is there some specific brand/type I should be looking for???

4) I know earlier Jim and Curt said that due to my cabinet design and new port configuration I need to stuff the area between the midrange chambers and the cabinet walls with insulation... Do I want this just on the sides of the midrange chambers??? Or should I also fill in the area behind the tweeter that is in between the two midrange chambers???

5) I understand that I am doing this so that the speaker has "symmetrical acoustic loading"... So, when I stuff these areas do I want the fiberglass to be "fluffy" or do I really want to "pack" and "compress" the fiberglass into these areas to where it is almost "solid"???

VENEERING THE SPEAKERS

6) I am still going to paint the front baffles and rear curves black... So, would you guys recommend veneering ALL surfaces of the speaker??? Or, veneering just the sides of the speaker???

7) Are there advantages/disadvantages of doing either way as asked in #6???

INTERNAL WIRING AND CONNECTIONS

8) I have done some searching and there are various opinions; what internal wire is recommended to go from speakers to binding posts???

9) Again, many searches with varied results; what is the recommended way to secure the speakers to the cabinets??? I personally like those hex head bolts... But, just wanted to know if others had some insight to share on this...

10) What should I use to seal the speakers to the front baffles??? Again, I did some searching and found many different options... Just wanted to get some opinions...

Thats all I can think of for the time being... I really appreciate all the help and support thus far... And, for all the great feedback and comments I have gotten... It really helps when doing a project of this size... Especially when it is your first...

Thanks,
Mark

[cobblepots]

From what I've learned so far, here are my opinions to a few of your quesions.

Don't use fiberglass as it can and will be blown out the port unless you place it inside a cloth "case". I was recomended this open cell foam instead to avoid the whole cancer-causing-air-borne-agent issue.

http://www.foambymail.com/Wedge.html

This can be purchased in multiple thicknesses. I used 1" for the mid tunnel and 2" for the walls.

I put foam behind the tweeter just because there was space...

I attached this with 3M adhesive sprayy found at Lowes

For sealing the speakers to the baffles, here's a link with some options. I have purchased the gasketing tape. Closed cell is good for this application as air will not pass through it.

http://www.parts-express.com/webpage.cfm?FILTER=gasket&FTR=gasket&search_type=main&WebPage_ID=3

For veneering. I have decided to paint the rear's a flat black (textured rustoleum rattle can) and the fronts/bases a gloss black using Lacquer (sp?)

The sides and tops will be done in Mottled Makore as I felt the darker color matched the black well and I love the rich look of it. A bit expensive though. This website has the lowest prices I've found so far.

https://www.tapeease.com

Advantage wise, it will be less work to not bend veneer over the corners, especially if it's an exotic grain. However, now I have to allign the veneer with the paint lines on the chamfer which is a bit difficult to do perfectly without seams.

With regards to wiring, there are a lot of opinions. It's a relatively short distance so large wires are a waste IMO. I did a few weeks of research into wire sizing and increased resistance due to wire diameter and lengths when I designed an electric truck. This website pretty much outlines what I found on my own very well. It basically comes down to length vs diameter and it's relationship to the total resistance of the speaker/crossover circuit. (impurities affect this somewhat as well. Most commercial wires are fine in this regard). In my opinion, 16-14 gauge is acceptable within the cabinets. For the receiver to speaker wire, I am personally going with 12 gauge.

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

Those are some basic answers to a few questions. Hope this helps. I am no expert on all of this, these are just my observations. Hopefully someone else will help lead you further. Great looking project!

[Hdale85]

Thomas has said quite a few times that a bunch of fiberglass particles don't blow around. There may be a few stray particles that come out during the first week or so but after that shouldn't be an issue. With that said I bought some that's not paper backed. It came in rolls in a plastic bag. I plan on at least trying to attach it with spray adhesive.

As for wire I just ordered a bunch of this to build some speaker cables and to use for internal wiring.

http://www.performanceaudio.com/cgi/product_view.cgi?products_id=534

It's nice and cheap and is good quality wire. You can double up pairs for the woofers which would come out to 13AWG. I plan on using the fast on connectors as well. This would just be a personal decision. You can solder straight to the terminals or use the connectors when I built my Maxx's I ended up having to pull the drivers out a couple times and one of the tweeters got messed up from de soldering.

I like the hex head bolts as well, with that said there are a couple different methods. You can get the ones that aren't made for screwing directly into wood and get threaded inserts. Predrill and insert the threaded inserts into the wood. Or you can get the ones that have a sharp point on the end I believe both PE and Madisound carry them. Just predrill with a smaller drill bit and then screw them in. Either way should work fine.

[Hdale85]

Ah here we go found Thomas's post

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php?p=272838&postcount=84

A port is not an acoustic cannon continuously blowing high velocity air into the room. The air in the port moves back and forth according to the motion of the cone.

You'd be exposed to a thousand times more fiberglass when you install it in the sub, than you'd ever experience standing beside the operational port.

[David_D]

Hi Mark,
I personally like Hurricane Nuts with Button Head Cap Screws. Of course, it's all a choice to your liking. Here is a link to an evaluation I did some time ago.
Also, I have a set of commercial speakers that has what looks like a 3/32" cut about 1/16" deep all around the parameter of the baffle just beyond the round over. It was kind of a novel idea because now it makes the sides & top veneers all square / flat pieces.

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29922&highlight=h-nuts

[mlammert]

Hey guys,

Thanks so much for the answers and suggestions so far...

Thanks for the info Cobblepots...

Dougie, thanks for the wire link... Looks good and I will probably go that route...

And, yes, I agree with and have read Thomas' posts on the insulation fibers being a non-issue...

David, thanks for the info and pictures... I am very happy to see those pictures because that is the exact idea I had in the back of my mind... I think I will rabbet an 1/8" x 1/8" groove around the perimeter of the front baffles and the rear curves...

Then when I attach them to the speakers I can just veneer the sides and top of the speakers and leave the fronts and backs painted...

Do you think there will be an issue with the thickness of the veneer being slightly more than the painted fronts and backs???

Also, I am definitely going the "bolt" route for the speaker attachments... I like the insert with a little glue technique...

Thanks guys,
Mark

[Hdale85]

I don't think you will notice the difference between the veneer and paint. Especially with the 1/8" groove.

[David_D]

I agree with Doug.
A typical paper backed veneer is about .020". You wil probably see the veneer edge but, no one else will.

Going with the 1/8" dado will require you trim the veneer with a knife. Cut forward strokes into the face of the veneer so the back stroke doesn't break out the grain.

[cobblepots]

Although I agree that the velocity in the port is low (design point) I would rather not play around with it. Instaling the material is also a pain. The foam link I provided has been recomended by a few around here and will offer you almost the same performance as fiberglass. Installation is cake.

Also, they sell organic loose insulation at Lowes that has the same R value as fiberglass without the hassle. Once again, I'm a worry nut about cancer (family history) and will never take a chance on this issue.

I have used huricanne nuts, they work very well but only when aligned perfectly. If you go this route, make sure to place the bolts through the speakers and baffle holes to allign the nuts in the rear. I used a small dab of gorilla glue to hold them in. Works very well and offers you a ton of flexibility when removing drivers.

I purchased the boring bit recommended in David's post. Works very well.

I have an attachment on my electric drill that allows me to make perpendicular holes (don't have a drill press) for the drivers. This ensures that they bolts go straight.

I am not worried about the veneer. 20 mils is very thin and will only be noticed if you tell someone and if they stick their face right next to the edge.

With the rear edge against the black paint, I used masking take along the black paint and used a small flush trim router bit. The tape protects the paint. A quick scuff with sandpaper removes and wood burs.

Good luck!

[mlammert]

Here are some more photos of progress...

Today I trimmed and cut out the curves...

When I glued all the curved strips of MDF together I left he ends rough... So, I used the miter saw to trim the ends and give them the 45 degree angle that I wanted...

Remember, the two skinny strips are still separate from the wide strips so first I temporarily attached those with some braces and screws from the back side (Photo One)...

With those all secured I then measured the speakers again to get the exact measurements and trimmed the ends of both curves (Photo Two)...

Next is a close up of the trimmed and beveled end (Photo Three)... The camera phone makes the cut not look smooth; but believe me the ends are nice and smooth and square...

After that was complete and removed the temporary braces and made measurements for the next step...

To be continued...