Mark's Statements Build Thread

[Hdale85]

The UMC-1 should be coming out in a couple months here as they are saying before the end of the year. If you want surround sound I would certainly recommend going with the XPA-5 and the UMC-1 or you could get the UPA-7 as well it's just a step below the XPA series. The UMC-1 is going to be 699 initial price which will be quite amazing as its going to use Dual Cirrus Logic chips which is the only one that is capable of fully manipulating the new HD formats. There are a couple other processors coming out that uses this but they are at least twice as much and many of them are only using a single chip. So if you can swing the 1500 dollar price which isn't much for a nice 5 channel amp and pre/pro with those features then I would certainly recommend it. Or if you need to go a little cheaper (although not much) then the UPA-7 is certainly an option.

Edit: You could definitely run the amp directly from the Oppo for now and I don't see why it wouldn't be safe.

[impala454]

Yeah if it has a volume control on the Oppo you should be golden.

[mlammert]

Sweet!!! Thanks Dougie and Chuck...

By the time I finishing building the main speakers and the surrounds and center version of the Statements I am sure they will have 9.1 or something like that out by then... :rofl:

I think I might just get the XPA-2 and run the OPPO directly to the amp for the time being...

That will give me a killer stereo music system and a nice 2.0 system for movies... 8)

And, by doing the OPPO directly to the XPA-2 for now, I can save my money for the latest processor and purchase either the XPA-5 or whatever is out then for my HT when I am ready...

Sweet, thanks guys!!!

Mark

[Hdale85]

Well the XPA-5 and UMC-1 will be around for a long time. I don't see 9.1 taking off so well in a home setting unless you have dedicated theater. Even 7.1 isn't really needed and in some situations can easily prove to be more damaging to the sound field then 5.1.

[mlammert]

Yeah, I was just kind of poking fun at myself for how long it is taking me to build the Statements... :P

But, the nice thing is that when I am ready to build the surround/center version of the Statements I can easily take baby steps from 2.0 to 3.0 to 5.0 to 7.0 and eventually add on the .1...

Mark

[Dennis H]

Yeah, I was just kind of poking fun at myself for how long it is taking me to build the Statements... :P

But, the nice thing is that when I am ready to build the surround/center version of the Statements I can easily take baby steps from 2.0 to 3.0 to 5.0 to 7.0 and eventually add on the .1...

Mark

Personally, I'd add the sub much earlier in the process.

[Hdale85]

Yeah I was going to suggest that as well. I would put the sub right after the mains or at the very latest after the center.

[shame302]

ditto. sub than center. id like to say the center made the single most significant change but everything snowballed so fast i cant. i can say that the center contributes immensely in HT. i was running the statement mains with a phantom center, they were good but after adding the center i was literally shocked and amazed at how much better they were all together. fwiw i added the sub at about the same time.

lol...i totally had finished my speakers with no electronics as well. its painful to have them sit there ready to go and no way to listen to them. my buddy that helped me picked out my electronics actually let me borrow his receiver until i had them he felt so bad...

the oppo looks like a winner. i intend on getting one soon. i realy want to see if i can hear a differance between it and my HTPC.

your build looks really sweet.....cant wait to see the finished product!

[Jim Holtz]

I'd certainly agree with the Emotiva and Oppo electronics. I have them myself and can strongly recommend them. When it comes to audio you can never have too much power. Too little is much worse than way too much. However, the Statements will get insanely loud with 125 watts so the UPA would fill your needs nicely.

Since your main focus is music, I think you'll find the Statements to have a LOT of bass capability and I suspect you wouldn't miss a sub at all unless you're into super high volume techno. I think a sub adds to HT but I am a bass head and want to shake the house. :rofl: The center really adds a lot to HT though and you'll enjoy it for movies or surround music if you're into that.

Everything is looking good! :T

Jim

[mlammert]

Thanks for all the positive feedback guys... I am hoping to make some good progress this weekend...

I totally had finished my speakers with no electronics as well.

I'm glad I am not the only one in that situation...

I'd certainly agree with the Emotiva and Oppo electronics. I have them myself and can strongly recommend them.

That is awesome... I am a true believer in the OPPO DVD player... Just based on the movies we have watched the colors are brighter and more vivid... Especial "dark" movies like Harry Potter the blacks are truly black instead of just being a muddle of dark grays...

Also, back to the discussion of hooking the OPPO directly into the amplifier, I emailed OPPO about this topic and received this response:

The DV-980H has been designed to support this functionality out of box. You will just use the Volume + and Volume - buttons on the remote control to adjust your volume through your amplifier.

So, I just need to keep on with the building of the speakers and decide if I want the UPA-7 or the XPA-2 to start off with...

Thanks again guys for all the support!!!

I hope to have more progress updates soon,
Mark

[shame302]

i feel i should add that my mains in a different room DO output MUCH more bass and i agree that they wouldn't require a sub. for music. the room i have them in is lousy acoustically and where the statements sit, they loose allot in terms of low end extension. they are still very "punchy" though. my room makes me sad ;O(

[NateTTU]

I'd certainly agree with the Emotiva and Oppo electronics. I have them myself and can strongly recommend them. When it comes to audio you can never have too much power. Too little is much worse than way too much. However, the Statements will get insanely loud with 125 watts so the UPA would fill your needs nicely.

Since your main focus is music, I think you'll find the Statements to have a LOT of bass capability and I suspect you wouldn't miss a sub at all unless you're into super high volume techno. I think a sub adds to HT but I am a bass head and want to shake the house. :rofl: The center really adds a lot to HT though and you'll enjoy it for movies or surround music if you're into that.

Everything is looking good! :T

Jim

Jim,

How loud would you say is a safe level to play the statements? I've got a buddy who comes from car audio who is looking to build the statements. I brought him over to check them out and while he does like them, they don't seem to have enough punch you in the gut feeling. I really don't have a db reader yet, but plan on getting one. Because I don't really know the level they were playing at I was hesitant to turn up the volume anymore. I would like to experience some chest pounding bass, but I'm just wondering if that will only be achived when I build the sub.

I have the following combo:
PS3 -> LMC-1 -> LPA-1. I usually run it around 51 on the LMC during music playback. I know that it tops out at 80, but haven't gotten near that yet. The last thing I want is a busted speaker. I'm just curious that if anyone else has the same combo, what levels are you taking your system to?

Nate

[Jim Holtz]

Jim,

How loud would you say is a safe level to play the statements? I've got a buddy who comes from car audio who is looking to build the statements. I brought him over to check them out and while he does like them, they don't seem to have enough punch you in the gut feeling. I really don't have a db reader yet, but plan on getting one. Because I don't really know the level they were playing at I was hesitant to turn up the volume anymore. I would like to experience some chest pounding bass, but I'm just wondering if that will only be achived when I build the sub.

I have the following combo:
PS3 -> LMC-1 -> LPA-1. I usually run it around 51 on the LMC during music playback. I know that it tops out at 80, but haven't gotten near that yet. The last thing I want is a busted speaker. I'm just curious that if anyone else has the same combo, what levels are you taking your system to?

Nate

Hi Nate,

Here's my take. The Statements can handle up to 115 DB with peaks above that. However, that is based on standard measurements of one meter and you'll experience DB loss as you move back from the speakers. If you sit the normal 8' - 12' from the speakers, they'll still get way, way louder than it's safe to listen.

I must say that the Statements were designed for high quality sound and volumes that will fill a large room easily. If your friend wants to hit DB's that the car audio crowd likes to brag about, line arrays are the solution, not the Statements. The Statements will get louder than it's safe to listen for anything but peaks but you'll simply run out of xmax at a certain point and that's when damage occurs. Again, by my standards, that would be insanely loud and into hearing damage territory.

Chest pounding bass is in the mid and upper bass range, not low bass. He needs a bunch of big a$$ed subs crossed about 100 Hz. if that's what he's after, combined with a line array. That said, I have no problem feeling bass in my chest on many songs with just my Statements and I'm sitting 15' away. However, what I consider significant bass in that situation and what your friend is looking for are probably two different things.

HTH

Jim

[mlammert]

Hey guys, more great progress this weekend!!!

1) The full vented braces are cleaned up and rounded over...

2) The half vented braces are cut, cleaned up, and rounded over...

3) The midrange braces are cut...

4) The midrange walls are cut...

5) The midrange enclosures are constructed, glued and dried...

6) And, probably the most cumbersome part was that since the sides of the speaker are angled, the back walls of the midrange enclosures "intersect" the sides of the speakers... So, I took the belt sander and very methodically sanded the sides of the midrange enclosures down to match the angle of the speaker walls... I used one of the full size braces as a template...

The first set of pictures just show the final braces cut out and rounded over...

[mlammert]

This second set of pictures shows the construction of the midrange enclosures...

The first two are the construction of the midrange enclosures...

In the second two you can see the angled ends of the midrange enclosures...

The final pictures shows all "internal" pieces/braces for the speakers...

[mlammert]

Oh, and just in case anyone is wondering, yes I know I only have two midrange enclosures built... :P

I only have 10 bar/pipe clamps so I can only build two at a time...

Hopefully tomorrow I will construct the second pair and have them finished for next weekend and hopefully (cross your fingers) construct the shell of one of the speakers next weekend...

More soon...

Thanks guys!!!

Mark

[Hdale85]

Looking good so far! I can't wait to see more!!! Surprised how well those fit together using just a jig to cut everything. Very impressed.

[mlammert]

Thanks Dougie!!!

I'm a big believer in the use of jigs for quality repeat cuts...

Yeah, I am very happy with the quality of work that has been turned out so far... I measured diagonally across the inside and outside corners of the midrange enclosures and they are dead on square... Very nice...

I am really getting excited to start assembling soon!!!

Mark

[mlammert]

Well, I have the final two midrange enclosures completed and ready...

I now have all internal pieces for the speakers built and ready... :T

Unfortunately I have had some family commitments pop up this weekend, so I don't know if I will be able to construct the speakers as planned... But, we'll see...

Don't these people know I have speakers to build!!! :P

Hopefully I will have more updates next week...

Thanks guys,
Mark

[Hdale85]

Don't forget pictures....we need lots of pictures.

[mlammert]

Okay, I am very mad... I just made my first irrecoverable mistake on the speakers...

I was cutting the MDF for the sides of the speakers... The first speaker went awesome... Both sides cut perfectly...

So, when I went to cut the sides for the second speaker, I basically cut two left sides... Remember, the top is slanted and each side is unique since the speakers are trapezoids... And, since each side is unique due to the angle, I cannot reuse the incorrectly cut piece...

I was SO mad!!! I measured like 10 times... However, I only checked to be sure I was correctly orientated once... Once I realized what I had done it was one of those scenes from the movies where the dude screams and all the birds fly our of the trees...

Oh well...

My question is, should I go and buy another piece of 3/4" MDF for this and re-cut a whole new side piece???

Or, what are your guys' thoughts on splicing two pieces of MDF together??? I can basically cut off the incorrectly cut angle and just cut a new angle and butt the two pieces of MDF together to form the side... If I did this I would make the spice at either the top or bottom of the speaker where I have my two braces butted next to each other... As labeled on the attached picture...

The only thing I am worried about if I splice is the final finishing of the speaker... Even if I use wood filler/bondo on the seam, will it show through???

What are your guys' thoughts on those two plans???

I am SO disappointed in myself right now... Err... :M

Attached are some pictures of the good speaker sides I cut...

You can see the angle profile along the top (high end is the front and the low end is the back)... You can also see the 45 degree cut I made so that there is no end grain showing when I place the top on the speaker...

Thanks guys!!!

Mark

[brijenjas]

Use bondo, not wood filler, bondo doesn't shrink.

I used it to cover my magnet recesses and a mistake I made with the jasper jig for my driver cutouts.

Even though I veneered my speakers, I could have easily painted them without the bondoed (is that even a word?) sections showing through.

After sanding, if it wasn't for the color difference, you wouldn't have been able to tell where the MDF ended and the bondo began.

http://i38.tinypic.com/2h6yjur.jpg

[Hdale85]

Personally I would get another sheet of MDF and cut a whole new piece rather then trying to laminates two pieces together.

[BobEllis]

I agree with Dougie - Having done the splice with Bondo, I think I spent a lot more time getting the joint paint ready thank I would have going to get another piece of MDF.

[mlammert]

Hey guys,

After reading through the responses, I guess your advice was the same thing that was already in the back of my mind:

Get a new piece of MDF and do it right the first time...

Looks like I will be doing that this weekend and hopefully maybe get one speaker built...

Thanks as always guys!!!

Mark

[mlammert]

More good progress early on Saturday!!!

I got the new sheet of MDF and cut the new side for the speaker... Very nice...

In the first picture you can see all four sides stacked next to each other...

I then went and cut biscuit slots in all the braces... Second and third pictures show the biscuit slots in the various braces...

The last pictures shows how I took two skinny pieces of scrap from when I cut the original speaker sides and glued them together to use as the vertical braces for the midrange enclosures...

If I did my math correct these should be the same angle as the sides of the speakers...

While the glue is drying (and in between family stuff) I am hoping to layout the braces on the speaker sides and cut the matching biscuit slots in the speaker sides...

Looks like I am going to have to start placing my orders for the speakers and crossover components soon!!! 8)

More to come!!!

Mark

[Hdale85]

How tall are these? Are they the same height as the normal statements? Seems bigger.....

[mlammert]

Hey Dougie,

These are quite a bit taller than the original Statements...

If you read back through the thread, I originally made the speakers angled which means I had to regain the lost volume somewhere... So, I made them a bit deeper and a bit taller...

Then, through talking with Curt and Jim, I discovered that the original Statements were on the "small side" of what the drivers like as far as air volume... So, these Statements are actually roughly 24 liters larger than the original Statements; per Curt and Jim's recommendation...

Curt helped me out quite a bit in re-configuring the ports for the new volume...

If you go back to this post:

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php?p=415284&postcount=39

You can see the overall new dimensions and new port configuration...

If memory serves me correctly, the front baffle comes in just at 6 1/2 feet tall...

More on its way!!!

Mark

[mlammert]

Hey guys,

More good progress made on Sunday...

I have the vertical braces cut and gluing to the midrange enclosures...

Picture one is the best; but the others show some other angles to the whole mess of clamps and whatnot...

I cut the vertical braces so that they would match the angle of the speakers' side walls...

The vertical braces are attached to the midrange enclosures so that they are perfectly aligned and the space in between each midrange enclosure is 3 1/4" inches per the driver cutout requirements... 8)

I measured various diagonals across the two midrange enclosures and I am quite confident they are square to within 1/32 of an inch...

You might see little blocks in between the two midrange enclosures... Those will be removed after the glue is dried and clamps are removed... I just used them for helping stabilize the enclosures while clamping...

Stopped by Home Depot and got some liquid nails... I am going to use that when I glue the midrange enclosures to the speaker walls... I wanted to use something more than just yellow glue since I had to use the belt sander on them and there might be slight inconsistencies that might cause voids and whatnot... Liquid nails will do a good job in filling any of those voids if they exist...

I also got some double backed carpet tape for when I cut the driver circles out for the baffle...

While the midrange braces are drying I will be measuring the layout lines on the sides of the speakers for when everything is ready to assemble...

More this week hopefully!!!

Thanks,
Mark

[mlammert]

One speaker shell is complete!!! 8)

Awesome progress was made this Saturday...

The following pictures show the glue up process of speaker number one...

In this set of pictures you can see all the biscuit slots and biscuits as we did a dry fit of the braces and the speaker sides...

Everything was pretty much ready to go except for cutting a few extra biscuit slots here and there...

The braces are not all 100% exactly the same; so I will have to do some very very minor sanding to get all the ends of the braces flush with the front and back edge of the speaker walls... But, I assumed this going into this stage and all is good...

More in a minute...

Mark

[mlammert]

Final set of pictures show the gluing process for speaker number one...

I used Titebond III for gluing all the braces to the speaker sides because these were perfectly flush with each other...

I used liquid nails to glue the midrange chambers to the sides because due to the use of the belt sander the walls were not 100% flush... They were all well within tolerance but I wanted the "bridging" properties of the liquid nail for the 1/32 to 1/16 gaps that might be between the midrange chambers and the walls...

After everything was in place and good we measured square and it was all within 1/16 of being parallel and square across a 6 1/2 foot length... I am pretty darn happy with that...

The attached pictures just show some various angles of glue up and the clamps...

The small clamps you see are where I glued the two vented braces together at the top and bottom of the speakers...

I need to wait for this to dry to do the other speaker because I am out of clamps.. And, I need to buy more biscuits... I believe we counted 66 biscuits for one speaker... :P

Let me know what you think...

More to come...

Thanks guys,
Mark

[impala454]

Man, I cannot wait to see these suckers done. It looks like you're a hell of a woodworker. Breakin out the biscuits and everything! Very nice!

[Hdale85]

These are looking freaking awesome! How much would you charge for a flat pack? :B

[mlammert]

Hey Chuck and Dougie,

Thanks for the positive words!!!

I am very happy with the way they are turning out... I am hoping to have the other speaker shell built during this week and then start on the curved backs this coming weekend...

I took the clamps off last night and was able to take another corner-to-corner measure for square... And, over the 6 1/2 feet height they are out of square by about 3/32" of an inch... I am pretty happy with that... Not perfect, but the human eye will never see that...

I'll try to do better on the second one... :P

Dougie, it is funny that you ask about the flat pack... Besides the great progress on the speakers this weekend, we also got our CNC machine back up and running!!! 8)

I am very happy about all that as well...

Since all the speaker parts are in Google SketchUp I could easily cut all the pieces out perfectly on the CNC machine and ship flat packs...

One step at a time though...

Thanks again for the positive feedback and support!!!

Talk to you guys later!!!

Mark

[Hdale85]

Well I got my cabinets I'm building right now CNC'd and most of it came out right. I'm not sure what happened with the side panels though lol. I like the biscuits and everything in yours though makes everything real easy. So while I don't need another set of speakers...and not completely sure I want a pair of statements I may be talking to you a ways down the line. I'm trying to get my brother in law to build them but he's suddenly had a change of heart and thinks 500 bucks on a pair of speakers is way to much. I'm not sure what happened because he was going to buy my old Lineup Maxx's for about 500? But we'll see just liking the way these cabinets are turning out.

How do you plan to do the backs? Just layer up some MDF and then cut the curve into it? Could be tricky that way but I can't think of many other ways to do it.

[mlammert]

Do you have a CNC machine or did you job it out???

I must say the biscuits made things 100x more simple... Barely any movement at all when you clamp things down and they allow for near perfect lineup of parts which was really nice especially with the midrange chambers...

As far as the back curve goes; yes, I am going to just build up layers of MDF...

I plan on cutting the curve out of some 1/4" Masonite or 1/2" MDF to serve as a master template... Then once that is perfect I will rough cut the other curves 3/4" MDF on the bandsaw and then use a pattern bit in my router to follow the master template and cut multiple exact matches... In theory it should be relatively easy and straightforward...

Since the inside of the midrange chambers are perfect 5" squares I can simply take my various curved layers of 3/4" MDF and (before I glue them together) I can use the chop saw to cut out 5" slots in them...

Once I get all the layers glued together and perfect I can just drill the holes for the ports on my drill press using a 3" hole saw or forester bit...

You or others might be wondering why I have been cutting all this out by hand if I have a CNC machine... Well, the CNC machine has a max cutting length of about 5 1/2" feet so things like the curves and stuff are just simply too long... And, yes, it would have been awesome to cut out all the braces and midrange enclosure parts on the CNC machine but that was during the time that it was broken down... Very frustrating...

But, the CNC is fixed now and the speakers are coming along nicely!!!

Mark

[Hdale85]

I had someone do it for me. I did all dado's and stuff to help them fit together better. They turned out pretty good although the guys I used their source seemed to have that softer flakier MDF but its' been ok. Here is my album, they still aren't done but working on it. The sides I had cut didn't end up bending as much as I need so now I have to like sand down the braces as they were a bit wider then the top and bottom because they fit into dado's on the side panels. But anyways going to sand them down to the same size and then use multiple layers of 1/8" hardboard.

Images not available

[mlammert]

Those look nice Dougie!!!

Should be very sweet when they are complete... Are those your design or a different online design???

My original plans for the Statements were going to be curved sides as well... But, after doing the cost calculations it was going to cost several hundred dollars just in building materials and was going to take a LOT longer to build...

So, I ended up going with the angled design and curved back as a compromise...

Mark

[Hdale85]

Not sure why the curved would cost you that much more? Only going to cost me a bit more I think the hardboard is going to be about 40 bucks? I think your angled design looks very nice. I'll PM you about the speaker design.

[mlammert]

Hey guys,

More progress on the speakers...

The one speaker shell is complete... I have sanded down all the edges where the braces and mid enclosures meet the front and back of the speakers... Some of these shifted ever so slightly (about 1/16") when I clamped them so I just took the belt sander and made everything smooth and square...

The second speaker shell is all setup and ready for glue... I have all the biscuit slots cut in the side panels... I have accomplished a good dry fit...

However, the panels and biscuits are too cumbersome to glue and clamp with one person so I need to wait till I have a buddy come over or see if my wife can help...

With the second speaker waiting, I have began to plan for the back curves... I am pretty confident that those will go smoothly... 8)

More later...

Thanks!!!

Mark

[Hdale85]

No more pictures....

[mlammert]

Just for Dougie; here are some more pictures!!! :P

The first few pictures are of the first speaker standing upright... Again, I took the belt sander and made all the braces and edges square with each other...

Tonight I had my neighbor come over and help me glue and clamp the second speaker together...

The next couple of pictures are of the second speaker being glued up... It didn't go together nearly as smooth as the first one.. But, everything once again seems to be within 1/16" of everything so I am again pretty pleased... Nothing the belt sander can't assist with...

I have all my schematics ready to start working on the rear curves... So it should go pretty easy...

The rear of the speakers are 7" wide... So that means I have one inch on each side of the 5 inch midrange openings...

To make glue-up of the rear curves easier and eliminate having to do any unnecessary cutting I am going to laminate the following series of MDF:

.5" + .5" = 1" for the left full strip...

.75" + .75" + .75" + .5" + .75" + .75" + .75" = 5" for the middle strip with the midrange openings... Once this series is glued up I will cut the entire strip with the chop saw to achieve the 5" openings for the midrange enclosures...

.5" + .5" = 1" for the right full strip...

1" + 5" + 1" = 7" wide rear curve...

I hope that makes sense... 8O

Anyway, hopefully I can get the master curve template finished this weekend and maybe get one of the panels created...

More soon!!!

Mark

[impala454]

oh man that thing is lookin great!

[Hdale85]

They are looking awesome! Unfortunately I can't talk my bro in law to do a pair of statements so I don't know that I'd be able to swing it and build these cabinets all though currently I really want to they look exciting lol. All the sudden he thinks that 600 bucks in parts for 2 speakers is crazy.... I was going to sell him my old Maxx's for 500 bucks but he was having some money pits at the time. But now its crazy? Oh well maybe when I build a 2 channel setup I can do something like that and maybe we can work something out since you have a CNC machine :B

[mlammert]

More great progress early on a Saturday morning...

The second speaker glued up quite nicely...

Took the clamps off this morning around 6:00AM and began sanding down all the braces where they meet the edges of the sides of the speakers... I learned from the first speaker and this one was much better and took less time...

Here is a picture of the two towers standing next to each other...

More soon!!!

Mark