Official CP-800 (Revision 2) Thread

[slauten]

I cant believe nobody has reported back on the board. Does this mean they have not arrived or no one has bought one yet?

I've bought but to my knowledge it has not arrived at my dealer. It should have been there last week, but he was closed for Thanksgiving. Hope to know more by mid week. He ordered several and wants to do the upgrade on his demo unit to make sure all goes well.

See Ya,
Steve

[slauten]

Report back???

Last saturday, when I was in the city center for some shopping, I asked the Classe dealer about the board.

He said: available in januari, will cost 1000€.

Whatever available means in Classe planning terms, we agreed it was "big money".

(Do I remember well that we had some rumours some years ago it was only 400 €/$???)

I live in the Netherlands

The board is $1,000 US dollars, so 1,000 Euros seems very high.

See Ya,
Steve

[windshear]

In my neck of the woods they have decided to release the board at $1700. :evil: On another note I had a bit of a scare today when upgrading my firmware. I tried to update it from 1.04 to 1.05. Nothing happened and after an hour I decided to switch off the unit. When I repowered the CP800 it wanted me to calibrate the screen. After the next start up the screen showed me a lovely error message saying I should contact Classe support. I tried to rerun the firmware upgrade , repowering the unit to no avail with no response. I unplugged the power as one last attempt and left it like that for 2 hours. Came back, retried the upgrade and I got lucky, but it did not seem to go smoothly as per their procedure.

[busby]

On another note I had a bit of a scare today when upgrading my firmware. I tried to update it from 1.04 to 1.05.

If ever you have problems with a USB update, look for text files named "BOOTLOG.TXT" and "APPLOG.TXT" in the folders "CP-800" and/or "CP-LOGS" on the USB memory stick. These should indicate where an error has occurred and may be helpful to Classé customer support.

[londoner]

I've been quoted £850 board + £90 labour = £940 (or around $1,500). That £850 includes 20% UK sales tax.

Having waited so long for this board it's only now I realise there's not a compelling case for me to upgrade. JRemote/JRiver connected over USB are working really well for me. I don't have or expect to have much hi-res music as pretty much everything I have is CDs ripped to FLAC (and I can't personally hear any difference between the 24/48 and 16/44.1 Society of Sound downloads - obviously a stronger case for those of you who can). And finally I really like the Classe physical remote control, so the iOS app is no big deal for me.

I was thinking all along that Classe would do a full media play iPad app, but I guess it's too much development effort for them to compete with JRemote/JRiver, Sooloos etc. I suspect I'm going to look instead at getting/building a nice little totally silent PC to replace the old laptop I'm using for JRiver.

[TomScrut]

I've been quoted £850 board + £90 labour = £940 (or around $1,500). That £850 includes 20% UK sales tax.

Having waited so long for this board it's only now I realise there's not a compelling case for me to upgrade. JRemote/JRiver connected over USB are working really well for me. I don't have or expect to have much hi-res music as pretty much everything I have is CDs ripped to FLAC (and I can't personally hear any difference between the 24/48 and 16/44.1 Society of Sound downloads - obviously a stronger case for those of you who can). And finally I really like the Classe physical remote control, so the iOS app is no big deal for me.

I was thinking all along that Classe would do a full media play iPad app, but I guess it's too much development effort for them to compete with JRemote/JRiver, Sooloos etc. I suspect I'm going to look instead at getting/building a nice little totally silent PC to replace the old laptop I'm using for JRiver.

That's s better price than I was expecting for over here. I have emailed my nearest dealer with a load of questions about this and they havent responded yet, even to say thanks for the enquiry we will get back to you. Makes me wonder sometimes if they want business! Anyway thanks for the info. Agreed on the Classe remote it's awesome. If they could do one similar to the Cyrus N remote functionality wise for streaming and be beefy ali like the current one it would be awesome!

[slauten]

Dealer called and my board has arrived. Im taking my CP-800 to him next week to get the board installed.

See Ya,
Steve

[ultrasonus]

I envy all you upgraders ...

Meanwhile, here's another shot at second-guessing Classe. It would have been nice if they provided a digital output since they already have a high-quality ADC that can feed analogue input to the processor for equalization, etc. If there was a way to tap into that signal, we could use the CP-800 to rip vinyl, tape and other analogue sources to digital without buying yet another box.

Or is there already a way to access that signal that I don't know about?

[TomScrut]

I envy all you upgraders ...

Meanwhile, here's another shot at second-guessing Classe. It would have been nice if they provided a digital output since they already have a high-quality ADC that can feed analogue input to the processor for equalization, etc. If there was a way to tap into that signal, we could use the CP-800 to rip vinyl, tape and other analogue sources to digital without buying yet another box.

Or is there already a way to access that signal that I don't know about?

I don't think there is as I know another CP800 owner who was wanting to do that. His SSP800 will do it but obviously not as well as a CP could.

[ultrasonus]

I don't think there is as I know another CP800 owner who was wanting to do that. His SSP800 will do it but obviously not as well as a CP could.

Too bad, but thanks, Tom. Maybe I'll wait for Rev 3.

If the necessary hardware connectivity is available in the Rev 2 design, Classé might consider a software or firmware update at some point. Maybe RebelMan can ask about that next time he talks with his contact. Otherwise, no dice.

[james_dmi]

I envy all you upgraders ...

Meanwhile, here's another shot at second-guessing Classe. It would have been nice if they provided a digital output since they already have a high-quality ADC that can feed analogue input to the processor for equalization, etc. If there was a way to tap into that signal, we could use the CP-800 to rip vinyl, tape and other analogue sources to digital without buying yet another box.

Or is there already a way to access that signal that I don't know about?

Another option would be for the CP to write the digital data stream directly to a USB drive or even a network location. No extra hardware required just software.

[ultrasonus]

Another option would be for the CP to write the digital data stream directly to a USB drive or even a network location. No extra hardware required just software.

I agree, that would be the ideal implementation. But I don't know whether there is a hardware path from the output of the ADC or the digital processor back to the ethernet or USB ports. If yes, it could be a software upgrade that would add significant value and marketing appeal I would think (pre-amp + processor + DAC + ADC). The whole package in one box at a very high quality level.

[slauten]

Getting my CP-800 upgrade board installed today, will having ready to roll tonight! I've heard great reviews so far on the new board.

See Ya,
Steve

[PewterTA]

Definitely let us know what you think of it! Can't wait!

[slauten]

Quick update on the digital board. I like it a lot, the board has an upgraded DAC and it sounds excellent. I'm still in the break in process, like everything it needs a decent amount of time to sound its best. Since its connected via Airplay it does everything you can normally do on Airplay. I've not had much time to play with it and hope to spend more time this weekend and over the holidays to get more familiar with it. Physically theres a big difference between the old and new boards. Lots more hardware you can visually see on the new board. The big benefit besides the obvious new capabilities i.e. Airplay, streaming, etc. is the DAC, and higher resolution files.

See Ya,
Steve

[ultrasonus]

Steve, that sounds very encouraging. Looking forward to more reports.

One point I'm not clear on. RebelMan wrote in his summary of the upgrade, The CP-800 (Revision 2) upgrade utilizes the same Wolfson WM8741 DACs that are in the first revision ... So, in what sense are the DACs upgraded on the new board? Is Classé using different DAC chips after all, or are they using the old ones in an improved way?

[slauten]

ultrasonus-I'm not certain on the DACs, other than I might have an original CP-800. mine was part of the 1st batch to be delivered from China. So if theres a Rev 1 unit, mine may not be one that has the same DAC? The other option is the new board has the same DAC but it's implemented much better. I will try and get photos of both boards so we can compare. I do know that listening to my Mac Mini, and iPad via USB sounds much better, but maybe its my head telling me that...you know how that goes?

See Ya,
Steve

[ultrasonus]

Yeah, I know how those things go ...

I've been taking Rev. 2 to mean a second version. But taken literally, Rev. 2 implies a third version, so maybe I was wrong about that.

The new implementation is different –– remember all that discussion about trading off the galvanic isolation for a new layout and grounding scheme to achieve the higher data rate? Classé claims the new design sounds better to them. So, my hope is that you're not hearing things.

Either way, enjoy!

[slauten]

Yeah, I know how those things go ...

I've been taking Rev. 2 to mean a second version. But taken literally, Rev. 2 implies a third version, so maybe I was wrong about that.

The new implementation is different –– remember all that discussion about trading off the galvanic isolation for a new layout and grounding scheme to achieve the higher data rate? Classé claims the new design sounds better to them. So, my hope is that you're not hearing things.

Either way, enjoy!

Got a little more time to play with the new board today. Based on what I know so far, the DAC on the new board is likely the same but implemented a lot different., working on pictures so I show what I mean on the board differences. Still in break in phase but I can tell it sounds better overall to me. Primary reason is full resolution on the files being played. Both USB slots front and rear seem to sound the same. I'm far from an expert on these topics. I like the airplay feature, ability to control the source via iPad, in general it meets most of what I've been hoping for.

See Ya,
Steve

[busby]

The DACs are located on the main audio board (the largest circuit board in the CP-800), so changing the digital audio board does not replace them. The new digital audio board gives you the following: a new processor supporting high-speed USB, a network (Ethernet) interface module for AirPlay and DLNA audio streaming, lots of new firmware throughout to make it all work.

Hope this helps.

[Basil]

I just got my new CP-800 rev 2 this weekend and was wondering which of the USB or SPDIF connection was best to hook it up to my computer. I tried both and they seem to work equally well... with maybe a slight sonic advantage to the SPDIF connection? Any recommendation from Classé on this? I don't seem to be able to gather any from searching their website. I have a real good SPDIF cable and don't want to spend money for a good USB cable if there is no real advantage to going USB.

BTW I had a rev 1 unit on loan from the local audio dealer for a week so I had time to test it thoroughly while awaiting for my rev2 unit. Wow, is it me or the rev 2 sounds so much better? It seems there is just more "air" and space around the notes and the low end frequencies are better defined. I guess I'll wait for the burn in process to complete before reaching conclusions too rapidly. I'm running this with a CA-2300 on Thiel CS3.7 speakers. Digital audio exclusively, either computer or Blu-Ray.

[TomScrut]

I dont think there is much info at all on the Classé website about this upgrade at all.....

[Edgeyboy]

I've ordered the upgrade kit for my CP800 - B&W UK say it will be here early January. Tom

[ultrasonus]

I'm running this with a CA-2300 on Thiel CS3.7 speakers. Digital audio exclusively, ...

Basil, I have a very similar system: CT-2300 (essentially the same as CA-2300, but with simpler case), CP-60 (old-school Classé), and Thiel CS3.7s. I will continue to play vinyl, cleaned or restored in a one-of-a-kind ultrasonic cleaning system. So, I'm still waiting for the phono option to come out. Meanwhile, I'm very interested to hear your impressions as your system comes together.

As for Classé's position on S/PDIF vs. USB or ethernet, your answer can be found in the CP-800 white paper available on the Classé web site. In the section discussing Synchronous (Adaptive) USB (not the one used in the CP-800):

The problem posed by the standard USB/
DAC approach (Fig. 3) is that the USB source (your computer or portable device) is ultimately responsible for the jitter in the system. Further, the USB source may degrade the performance of DACs, power supplies and analog circuitry by polluting the environment with noise cou- pling through power, control, signal and electro- magnetic pathways.
Synchronous/Adaptive USB DACs exhibit high jitter because the clock being used by the DAC is 1) generated in the USB microcontroller and 2) slaved to the rate at which the USB source is supplying the data. From an audio perspective, this approach is backwards as it forces the USB DAC to lock to a high jitter and compromised clock system. As with S/PDIF, no amount of post-processing in the USB DAC can reverse the damage that has occurred during data transmission.

Classé's asynchronous USB implementation is one of the key advances in the CP-800 design; it is still used in the Rev 2 design, except it supports higher data rates. They use an analogous approach in the new ethernet implementation, as RebelMan wrote at the top of this thread:

The streaming audio path also allows for up to 24-bit/192 kHz resolutions and it works in Clock Master mode for both AirPlay and DLNA sources, which means Classé controls the clock in the same way that they do for the USB path.

Bottom line from Classé: If you want the best possible audio quality, use either USB or ethernet so that the CP-800 controls the clock.

At least in theory ... I have no personal experience. But this agrees with most reviews I've read for the original CP-800.

[IslandMD]

Possibly a question for Rebelman,

Does the DLNA renderer support gapless playback? Currently using a headless Mac Mini with Audirvana integrated with iTunes and IF the sound quality is on a par, would be really tempted to use the network streaming.

All audio is stored on a Synology NAS which has DLNA capability. Tested last night with a DLNA client so eager to learn more about the upgrade - will the CP-800 show track name, time and position/progress? One thing mentioned in the extensive update was regarding the two firmware versions 1.05 and 2.0.1.3 - does this mean that the non-V2 CP-800 will gain some extra functionality?

All the best...

Hi guys. I'm new here. Looking to improve the quality of my 2-channel listening so I'm looking at the newly revised CP-800 + the new CA-D200 combo for 2-channel audio and the new Anthem MRX 710 for multichannel audio and movies. I'm specifically interested in the CP-800's new ethernet streaming ability since I can then use my PC strictly for multichannel audio and movies. Although the ethernet and USB connections on the CP-800 should theoretically have equal quality, that is only true in the real world if your USB source (PC or Mac) is pristine. That is not an easy task to accomplish. There is a huge industry now in place trying to sell upgrades in hardware, power supply, software optimization, etc. for PCs and Macs. Sometimes it's hard to sort the fact from the fiction because the optimization choices for your computer server are endless and nobody could possibly buy and test them all. DLNA streaming over ethernet has the potential of eliminating all of these computer related problems.

I've read through this thread and so far I've not seen an answer to Tom's question regarding gapless playback over ethernet. This might potentially be a huge issue and a deal-breaker if Classe didn't implement their ethernet DLNA renderer correctly. There are a number of expensive DLNA renderers (most notably PS Audio's "Bridge") who's hardware implementation won't do gapless properly and can't be fixed. Since Classe started developing their DLNA renderer a few years ago I'm worried that they might have used chipsets that don't support gapless. Every fan of classical, jazz, and prog rock knows that lack of gapless support is a disaster.

Has anyone who has now taken delivery of their upgraded boards been able to test gapless play? If so, does it work with all types of DLNA servers (iTunes, JRiver, Synology NAS)? Does it work with different file types (ALAC, FLAC, WAV)? Does it work at all resolutions?

Any info on this would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Basil]

Basil, I have a very similar system: CT-2300 (essentially the same as CA-2300, but with simpler case), CP-60 (old-school Classé), and Thiel CS3.7s. I will continue to play vinyl, cleaned or restored in a one-of-a-kind ultrasonic cleaning system. So, I'm still waiting for the phono option to come out. Meanwhile, I'm very interested to hear your impressions as your system comes together.

Bottom line from Classé: If you want the best possible audio quality, use either USB or ethernet so that the CP-800 controls the clock.

At least in theory ... I have no personal experience. But this agrees with most reviews I've read for the original CP-800.

So I have close to 200 hours of continuous burn-in time on the Classé gear now. They really started opening up after 50+ hours of burn-in. What I can say at this point is that the Classé electronics and the Thiel CS3.7 are a match made in heaven.

What particularly hit me is the ability of the Classés (don't know if it's the amp or the pre) to even out the soundscape: recordings I feel are not very good suddenly sound like they're good! Redbook CD rips seem to sound as good as 24/192 ! Maybe it's just that I need to get used to the Classé sound before I can defferentiate again but at this point I'm a little bit confused...in a positive way! The Thiels are so revealing they usually show less than good recordings in a bad way. The Classés really seem to have a good grip on this in order to present the Thiels with a nice soundscape. It creates a soundstage that is the best I've heard in my litening environment.

Another area which I'm still trying to get to terms with is the CP-800's DAC. I'm running a Auralic Vega as an external DAC connected to the CP-800 through XLR. I've toyed alot with AB comparison tests and I'm amazed by the Classé DAC. It lacks a little bit of the Vega's low end punch but it delivers better soundstage, dynamics and precision! The "air" around the notes is simply addictive and the soundstage superior to the Vega's. I've tried with everything from redbook CD rips to 24/192 FLAC, AIFF. The CP-800 seems to sound better or very near the Vega with redbook CD rips compared to the same album's DSD version on the Vega: I cannot conlude anything as this is based only on 1 album (Norah Jones Come away).

I have heard the Classé CP-800 & CA-2300 combo on B&W 802's at the dealer, but I prefer the sound and the match with my Thiel CS3.7 in my litening room. This is subjective and depends on the context and the listening environment, but, this is my conclusion! I'm a happy customer!

[IslandMD]

Anyone have any info on gapless playback support over ethernet? Thanks.

[ultrasonus]

Thanks for the update, Basil. I'm still following your progress.

I was similarly amazed when I added the CT-2300 to my system. It tamed most of the issues I had with my old Thiel CS2.2s in the higher frequencies to the point that I started to wonder if I really needed the 3.7s. But when I added the 3.7s, there was no question.

That Norah Jones cd must be very well engineered. It sounds great even when played through my California Audio Labs CL-15 player ––– the last part remaining from my entry-level system.

[ultrasonus]

Anyone have any info on gapless playback support over ethernet? Thanks.

IslandMD, sorry I can't answer your question, but why not contact Classé directly by phone or email on this? They're pretty good about responding to questions like this about released products. Good luck.

[IslandMD]

IslandMD, sorry I can't answer your question, but why not contact Classé directly by phone or email on this? They're pretty good about responding to questions like this about released products. Good luck.

I sent them an email. I'll let everyone know what they have to say.

[IslandMD]

Good news regarding gapless DLNA playback support. Classe was able to test this and confirmed that it does work with JRiver as the server (player). It works with FLAC and WAV 16/44 and 24-192. As far as I know they didn't test using the Synology NAS DLNA server or AirPlay.

[cossie0]

I've ordered the upgrade kit for my CP800 - B&W UK say it will be here early January. Tom

How much is it in the UK Tom, I was thinking of upgrading mine but am struggling to see what the benefit will be.

thanks
Darren

[Edgeyboy]

I was quoted £850. Tom

[Stevebez]

OK so on the new CP800 I can play lossless files on my NAS over AirPlay using Filebrowser app for example? As well as stream from my Iphone - wirelessly?

Thx Steve

[busby]

OK so on the new CP800 I can play lossless files on my NAS over AirPlay using Filebrowser app for example? As well as stream from my Iphone - wirelessly?

Thx Steve

Yes - but AirPlay transcodes everything to 16-bit, 44.1 kHz Apple lossless format. For high resolution files, use something like JRiver MC to stream to the CP-800 as a DLNA renderer. That supports up to 24-bit, 192 kHz from wav and flac as well as various compressed files in their native formats (i.e. no transcoding).

[Stevebez]

Thanks!

Hmm ... So does JRiver have an app to control files remotely?

And does it then send the data to the CP800 directly, outisde of "airplay" via the network? Or is the AirPlay "link" still employed but at JRiver resolution?

Would I need a computer to be active to run JRiver?

What the heck is DLNA - I am not a computer numpkin but I've obviously been left behind in last few years .........

[8bitAudio]

Steve,

What NAS are you using? Most either have a DLNA server/client or can be installed. Here is a relatively simple explanantion http://www.techradar.com/news/digita...o-know-1079015

You can use an app like PlugPlayer on your iphone as a DLNA client to pull from your NAS and send the stream to the DLNA renderer (CP800 w/networking addon)

[PewterTA]

For JRiver, you'd need a PC to be used as your player. For your music files, you an store them wherever that player can get to the files (ie NAS, fileserver, another desktop/laptop, whatever). Once that's done, you'll probably want to connect the PC to your CP800. There are a few ways to do this. Simplist, would be to go via USB and install the drivers for the CP800 on your computer. Your computer will see it as a sound device then in JRiver you can select that device to output to via WASAPI, Kernel Streaming, or ASIO. These are all 'bit-perfect' ways to get the data to the CP800. You can also go via any digital output on the computer to the CP-800 and let it decode.

What you don't want to do, last resort as this is the worst sound quality, is to hook the computer up via an analog connection from the computer to the CP-800 on one of it's inputs.

[Stevebez]

Thanks 8BitAudio!

So will I need a pc running to run it in this manner...? I got a QNAP TS-469U-SP.

A CP800 App would be usefull!

Am I right in saying the CP800 cannot go and fetch the data file but can only decode it?

[PewterTA]

I believe you are right on that Steve, but I'm not 100% positive as I don't have my CP-800 yet. I'm hoping I can get on towards the middle of the year.

[busby]

Thanks 8BitAudio!

So will I need a pc running to run it in this manner...? I got a QNAP TS-469U-SP.

A CP800 App would be usefull!

Am I right in saying the CP800 cannot go and fetch the data file but can only decode it?

Steve, you're correct that the CP-800 itself doesn't allow selection of music from the server.

Your QNAP should be able to stream directly to the CP-800 (via the QNAP "Music Station" app) without needing to run a PC. (From the QNAP manual it appears that you have to select "streaming mode" before beginning playback.) However, you will probably have to run a browser on something to select what you want to play from the QNAP. I don't have experience of the QNAP, but using the music station app on my Synology NAS, I can successfully stream to the CP-800 either as a DLNA or an AirPlay renderer (the CP-800 appears twice in the device list!). The Synology has a neat iOS app that allows me to select music and control playback from iPhone/iPad devices. The QNAP may have something similar.

If you do decide to use a PC, the iOS JRemote app (for selecting music and remote controlling JRiver MC on the PC) seems pretty good.

[IslandMD]

Steve, you're correct that the CP-800 itself doesn't allow selection of music from the server.

Your QNAP should be able to stream directly to the CP-800 (via the QNAP "Music Station" app) without needing to run a PC. (From the QNAP manual it appears that you have to select "streaming mode" before beginning playback.) However, you will probably have to run a browser on something to select what you want to play from the QNAP. I don't have experience of the QNAP, but using the music station app on my Synology NAS, I can successfully stream to the CP-800 either as a DLNA or an AirPlay renderer (the CP-800 appears twice in the device list!). The Synology has a neat iOS app that allows me to select music and control playback from iPhone/iPad devices. The QNAP may have something similar.

If you do decide to use a PC, the iOS JRemote app (for selecting music and remote controlling JRiver MC on the PC) seems pretty good.

Classe's technician confirmed to me that gapless DLNA playback works when using JRiver on a PC as the server. He wasn't able to test any of the non-PC solutions like Synology or QNAP's NAS based servers. Since you seem to be able to stream via DLNA from your QNAP NAS would you be able to confirm for us that gapless playback works? Also, could you try this with some hi-rez albums if you have them? Thanks.

[Stevebez]

OK, I currently use FileBrowser (or the QNAP app) to stream data from the NAS to AirPlay devices currently... however its seems this avenue will cap any lossless files to 96khz? Is this a DLNA restriction of Airplay restriction?

Trying to fiure this all out before I get this on the shopping list.

[busby]

Classe's technician confirmed to me that gapless DLNA playback works when using JRiver on a PC as the server. He wasn't able to test any of the non-PC solutions like Synology or QNAP's NAS based servers. Since you seem to be able to stream via DLNA from your QNAP NAS would you be able to confirm for us that gapless playback works? Also, could you try this with some hi-rez albums if you have them? Thanks.

I can also confirm that gapless playback works for JRiver on a PC. Unfortunately, the Synology "Audio Station" app still does not do gapless playback when streaming over the network. There is a delay of 1 -2 seconds between tracks. (I believe that playback over USB from the Synology is gapless but have not verified this.)

Hi-res files at 24-bit and any of 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4 and 192 kHz sample rates play correctly on the Synology Audio Station app. (My Synology is the DS212+ with 2 x 3TB WD "red" HDDs.)

[busby]

OK, I currently use FileBrowser (or the QNAP app) to stream data from the NAS to AirPlay devices currently... however its seems this avenue will cap any lossless files to 96khz? Is this a DLNA restriction of Airplay restriction?

Trying to fiure this all out before I get this on the shopping list.

The 96 kHz cap is not a DLNA restriction - the CP-800 can handle 24-bit 192 kHz streamed from JRiver on PC and "Audio Station" on Synology NAS. However, it may be a limitation imposed by the QNAP software. It may be worth checking the QNAP forum.

Airplay will accept files up to 192 kHz (on Synology Audio Station as well as iTunes/PC etc) - but is transcoded to ALAC 16-bit 44.1 kHz (as per the Apple specification) and streamed at that rate over the network.