Classe discontinuing 2-channel?

[ert]

According to Classe website, there are no two-channel preamps or integrated amps in the product line, only discontinued products! Has Classe abandoned 2-channel audio?

[Kal Rubinson]

Cp-800?

[style]

Classe discontinued Cax200 et Cax100.
integre aussi..

style

[alebonau]

classe has made some of the most lovely 2ch gear in disc players, integrated amps, pre amps. so if they are discontinuing them that is most disappointing...

[ert]

Kal, the CP-800 is an interesting box, but considering it's price point, is something I would never purchase. A combo preamp/dac/amp like the Peachtree Nova is nice for a compact second system perhaps, but I don't like the idea of mixing in a DAC and Preamp at this performance level. In the last 10 years I've had one Classe integrated and maybe 4 DACs. With digitial technology technology changing so quickly, especially wrt USB audio, I'm afraid the DAC in the CP-800 would be outpaced by competing technologies pretty quickly.

It would be really nice to see Classe produce a simple analog preamp to match one of their 2CH amps. An integrated would be nice too, but I know that these seem to be out of fashion these days in high end.

eric

[mjb]

Kal, the CP-800 is an interesting box, but considering it's price point, is something I would never purchase.

I think its price point is similar to the CP-700, and there's a lot more in the CP-800 box from what I've seen.

A combo preamp/dac/amp like the Peachtree Nova is nice for a compact second system perhaps, but I don't like the idea of mixing in a DAC and Preamp at this performance level.

The mix works extremely well with the SP-800, which also has an analog input rivaling the quality of the CP-700.

In the last 10 years I've had one Classe integrated and maybe 4 DACs. With digitial technology technology changing so quickly, especially wrt USB audio, I'm afraid the DAC in the CP-800 would be outpaced by competing technologies pretty quickly.

DAC technology has settled down a bit. I've been more upset by the ever changing HDMI specs.

It would be really nice to see Classe produce a simple analog preamp to match one of their 2CH amps. An integrated would be nice too, but I know that these seem to be out of fashion these days in high end.

I think they have, and its the CP-800. Times have changed, arguably the only analogue source today is a turntable. Most music collections are stored loss-less and or high definition on a server, and a modern pre-amp has to deal with that. The SSP-800 works very well, but its a) multichannel and b) theres no ethernet or USB. The CP-800 solves these shortcomings and concentrates on stereo. I'm looking forward to seeing/hearing one for sure.

[Kal Rubinson]

With digitial technology technology changing so quickly, especially wrt USB audio, I'm afraid the DAC in the CP-800 would be outpaced by competing technologies pretty quickly.

2 channel DAC technology has been pretty stable for a while now.

[ert]

DAC technology has settled down a bit.

2 channel DAC technology has been pretty stable for a while now.

It depends on the interface. Good USB DAC solutions that can handle hi rez formats are actually only now starting to mature. There are plenty of open technical issues being discussed on computer audio forums wrt USB audio interfaces.

If the CP-800 is in the similar price range of the CP-700, then it means something was sacrificed. CP-700 has a separate PS, while CP-800 has internal PS plus DAC and cost less than then CP-700? I'm guessing it's a big step down from the 700.

[Kal Rubinson]

It depends on the interface. Good USB DAC solutions that can handle hi rez formats are actually only now starting to mature. There are plenty of open technical issues being discussed on computer audio forums wrt USB audio interfaces.

That is an interface issue, not a DAC issue, per se.

If the CP-800 is in the similar price range of the CP-700, then it means something was sacrificed. CP-700 has a separate PS, while CP-800 has internal PS plus DAC and cost less than then CP-700? I'm guessing it's a big step down from the 700.

That's a guess and I cannot dispute it since I have not compared them side-by-side. What I can say is that the CP-800 was designed by a different guy, is not an evolution of the CP-700 and should not be analyzed as if it is. I met Alan Clark when he was with Linn and I think that Classe scored a coup in getting him; he is one of the most impressive engineers in this business. Issues of price and physical construction are, imho, somewhat less relevant.

[alebonau]

~

If the CP-800 is in the similar price range of the CP-700, then it means something was sacrificed. CP-700 has a separate PS, while CP-800 has internal PS plus DAC and cost less than then CP-700? I'm guessing it's a big step down from the 700.

and the cp700 is a very good 2ch analog pre amp for it.

seeing pics of insides of the cp800 I see nothing of the lovely dual mono fully balanced design of the CP700, and yes completely discrete external power supply the cp700 also has.

looks to me lots of the cp700s pure analog basis has been sacrificed and replaced by the cp800s digital innards.

[aarsoe]

Guys

I was under the impression that most parents teach their children not to judge a book by it's cover. ABC even made a song about that. Smile.
So hold the criticism until you have had a chance to hear it by yourself.
I for one cannot remember a "bad" product from Classe. So why should this one be the first?

[aarsoe]

2 channel DAC technology has been pretty stable for a while now.

Kal

Not sure if I agree that this does also apply for the future. Would imagine that development in chip design will eventually move everything to programmable circuits - meaning not a real DAC but a DSP emulation.
Believe DCS is already using this technology today. In a few years you can do that for a few dollars so why use a regular DAC?
Beauty of this is that what was impossible for most to purchase will become affordable for the masses down the road.. :lol:

[Kal Rubinson]

Kal

Not sure if I agree that this does also apply for the future. Would imagine that development in chip design will eventually move everything to programmable circuits - meaning not a real DAC but a DSP emulation.
Believe DCS is already using this technology today. In a few years you can do that for a few dollars so why use a regular DAC?
Beauty of this is that what was impossible for most to purchase will become affordable for the masses down the road.. :lol:

That analysis applies to most technology and why one should not prejudge the CP-800.

[aarsoe]

Totally agree and why I urged people to listen before they pass sentence.

Nothing beats the (r)evolution that transistors undergo from generation to generation. Imagine a world without them. A scary scenario if you ask me.
And now they are changing the world of HiFi in a pace that have not been seen before. The leaps between each generation now is bigger than the jumps between the 1960's to the 1980's.
Cannot wait to see what our hobby will be like in 10 years.

[Audio_ElF]

Kal

Not sure if I agree that this does also apply for the future. Would imagine that development in chip design will eventually move everything to programmable circuits - meaning not a real DAC but a DSP emulation.
Believe DCS is already using this technology today. In a few years you can do that for a few dollars so why use a regular DAC?
Beauty of this is that what was impossible for most to purchase will become affordable for the masses down the road.. :lol:

I find myself agreeing with Kal, DAC (the chip) technology has been stable for a while now. Admittedly there is the new ESS Sabre 32 chips which people are raving about, but many high end DAC are still being introduced with the BB (now TI) PCM1704 first introduced in 1998. Yes some (like Naim DAC) are adding DSPs to provide additional processing, but once the DSP is in there then firmware can be used (within the processing limits of the chip) to provide additional functionality and improve sound quality. Having said that, there are some well build DACs from 10-15 years ago which are still providing good service today - it has been commented that the DAC chip itself is a very minor part of creating a good sounding DAC: the analogue circuitry and PSU is of greater importance.

dCS technology which I think you refer to is something different. They use FPGA (field programmable gate array) to provide a completely customisable DAC circuit. This is a very customisable system but is also very expensive compared with a standard DAC chip. I'm sure there are others, but I only know of dCS and Chord who approach DAC design in this method.

At the end of the day though, given something like the CP800, you are getting a great DAC and preamp now which could be used later as a standard preamp with an external DAC. It may also be feasible that, IF some super new technology was developed down the line, Classe could offer an upgrade to the DAC board as has been seen with the SSP800.

Eloise

[ert]

Of course we should wait and listen before passing judgment Classe makes amazing stuff and I'm sure CP-800 will be great. I'm hoping Classe will simply produce a "budget" 2-ch preamp without extra bells and whistles. As someone who already owns a good DAC, I'd like all the money I pay for a good preamp to go to the analog circuits and not the DAC!

eric

[mjb]

I'm hoping Classe will simply produce a "budget" 2-ch preamp without extra bells and whistles.

Won't happen, they have a brand to protect. If you want "budget", look at Rotel. Also a member of the B&W group.

[Kal Rubinson]

Won't happen, they have a brand to protect. If you want "budget", look at Rotel. Also a member of the B&W group.

I agree that it is extremely unlikely but it would be nice if it was somewhat modular in a way that would let one purchase a functional device without the digital inputs/processing and still be able to have that added at a later date.

[aarsoe]

I agree that it is extremely unlikely but it would be nice if it was somewhat modular in a way that would let one purchase a functional device without the digital inputs/processing and still be able to have that added at a later date.

Am I hearing "apps" for HiFi being suggested..? 8)

[bigburner]

It would be really nice to see Classe produce a simple analog preamp to match one of their 2CH amps.
eric

eric, that is an excellent suggestion. I would be a customer for such a device. Your opinion that DACs are outpaced by competing technologies pretty quickly is also food for thought.

I would like to enhance your suggestion regarding the preamp by recommending that this device has tone controls. Classé, for the sake of music lovers it is time that the worm turned on this old chestnut. Not that I would want to mix my metaphors or anything.


Nigel.

[ert]

Won't happen, they have a brand to protect. If you want "budget", look at Rotel. Also a member of the B&W group.

"Budget" being in quotes of course. Recall that Classe did produce very fine integrateds, 2-ch amps and preamps and even stereo receivers at multiple price levels. I think Rotel stuff is great, but the performance and price gap between the preamps Rotel is currently offering and the CP-800 is simply huge. I can't believe that B&W group would just decide that there's no room in the market for a preamp that fits in there.

eric