Moving towards SSP 800

[style]

Hi Nolan,

sorry...sure the Oppo must make the "work" and the 1069 dacs will be better...

with my old 1068 I have alway connect the dv-BD player vie hdmi direct to the plasma abd than with cax. or analog to the 1068 from the player for the audio....

With the Bluray pictures you go set the 1069 or others in (L)PCM well???

with the PCM if you go choice dts,dd,...dont change nothnig at sound level...
the PCM make all and go the make all the decoding.

Style

[wettou]

It does not. The 7.1 inputs are analog bypass only. Bass Mgmt should be done in the player.

One more thing the Classé SSP-800 doesn't do :M

I am starting to think I should look elsewhere like Denon or Anthem D2

[sikoniko]

One more thing the Classé SSP-800 doesn't do :M

I am starting to think I should look elsewhere like Denon or Anthem D2

Help me to understand why you need it with the SSP-800?

You can use HDMI and don't need to use the 7.1 analog inputs.

[Nolan B]

Help me to understand why you need it with the SSP-800?

You can use HDMI and don't need to use the 7.1 analog inputs.

i agree...the 800 doesnt even need analog inputs let alone bass management on them.

[wettou]

Help me to understand why you need it with the SSP-800?

You can use HDMI and don't need to use the 7.1 analog inputs.

Just so you have the flexibility since the SSP-800 doesn't decode DSD

[sikoniko]

Just so you have the flexibility since the SSP-800 doesn't decode DSD

You don't understand the purpose of the analog inputs then.

[wettou]

You don't understand the purpose of the analog inputs then.

What is it that I don't understand!! I thought that the SSP-800 had the best DA converters??

[style]

The SSP have the Best Dac decoder at today available. :T

This one give you the best sound in digital and you don't need to search others solutions with the analog to go beyond.

Style

[SwainDtV]

My 2 cents,

My DVD player has a HDMI 1.1 output but is muted for SACD/DVD-Audio. So I need the 7.1 analog input. The DVD player has no bass management, only size, distance and levels. I believe that if the SSP-800 would allow bass management on the 7.1 input the analog signal has to be converted to digital and back to analog. I expect a bit of degradation in the sound quality, but maybe the end result could be more pleasing. It would have been a nice addition. Especially since the stereo analog inputs allow bypass to be turned on and off in the audio input setup.

Ab

[style]

Hi Ab,

I understand you.
Use the analog connection and have the possibility the "drive" all the bass management will be sure good thing.

With the by-pass setup "option" aon the SSP and a dvd player connect with analog-cables can give better sound quality...but is all to be tsted!

is too possible that this difference is not audible....well, if Classe have a analog I/O on SSP surely there's a reason.!!!


Style

[sikoniko]

My 2 cents,

My DVD player has a HDMI 1.1 output but is muted for SACD/DVD-Audio. So I need the 7.1 analog input. The DVD player has no bass management, only size, distance and levels. I believe that if the SSP-800 would allow bass management on the 7.1 input the analog signal has to be converted to digital and back to analog. I expect a bit of degradation in the sound quality, but maybe the end result could be more pleasing. It would have been a nice addition. Especially since the stereo analog inputs allow bypass to be turned on and off in the audio input setup.

Ab

Is it Classe's fault, or responsibility to overcome the fact that your DVD player is not compliant, if it does not do onboard bass management?

Analog inputs have never been intended to supply bass management. They are designed to bypass the digital realm of the pre/pro / receiver and provide a pure presentation of whatever the source is doing. It is the responsibility of the source to handle bass management.

Swain, are you sure that you can't do bass management on your player? I have the Oppo 980, and I know it does bass management, so if Nolan is going to use the analog outputs, I'm confident the Oppo BD player will support it. Perhaps you should consider buying the Oppo 980. Its a great deal and a fantastic transport for DVD-A/SACD.

[style]

Hi sikoniko,

The Oppo in europa in not so "easy" to have.


I don't know if Ab in Nederland have a contact but in switzerland I dont can person that sell Oppo product's.

style

[Nolan B]

Hi sikoniko,

The Oppo in europa in not so "easy" to have.


I don't know if Ab in Nederland have a contact but in switzerland I dont can person that sell Oppo product's.

style

I dont believe any dealer sells Oppo...you need to buy it online.

[mjb]

Style,
Oppo ships from Sweden in Europe (via DHL): http://www.opposhop.com/en/help/5/shipping_delivery
Grusse.

[alebonau]

Is it Classe's fault, or responsibility to overcome the fact that your DVD player is not compliant, if it does not do onboard bass management?

Analog inputs have never been intended to supply bass management. They are designed to bypass the digital realm of the pre/pro / receiver and provide a pure presentation of whatever the source is doing. It is the responsibility of the source to handle bass management.

Swain, are you sure that you can't do bass management on your player? I have the Oppo 980, and I know it does bass management, so if Nolan is going to use the analog outputs, I'm confident the Oppo BD player will support it. Perhaps you should consider buying the Oppo 980. Its a great deal and a fantastic transport for DVD-A/SACD.

the problem with the oppo is if it is anything like the 983 for analog its pretty awefull. theyre really meant to be used over hdmi. if considering mch analog yoru better off with the pio 09, sony bdp-s5000es or denon 3800/marantz 8002 players. even then for bass management/speaker setup in the player for over analog I'd say the setup ability of the pio is not sufficient, the sony would be jsut probably ok though most I know use it with post processing in the pre to get good results. leaving the denon 3800/marantz 8002 cousins that I have no experience with but believe have adeqaute setup for setup to get a good result over analog.

[SwainDtV]

Is it Classe's fault, or responsibility to overcome the fact that your DVD player is not compliant, if it does not do onboard bass management?

Analog inputs have never been intended to supply bass management. They are designed to bypass the digital realm of the pre/pro / receiver and provide a pure presentation of whatever the source is doing. It is the responsibility of the source to handle bass management.

Swain, are you sure that you can't do bass management on your player? I have the Oppo 980, and I know it does bass management, so if Nolan is going to use the analog outputs, I'm confident the Oppo BD player will support it. Perhaps you should consider buying the Oppo 980. Its a great deal and a fantastic transport for DVD-A/SACD.

It's not Classé's fault. I just wondered why there is no option to enable / disable the bypass for 7.1 analog input. If audio quality is one of the reasons, than what does that say about the audio quality for the 3 stereo analog inputs. The bypass on these inputs can be enabled/disabled in the input setup.

I like my Lexicon DVD player a lot. However I do hear so many positive things about the Oppo, maybe it's time to try one. So to replace my Lexicon I would have to buy the Oppo 980? I'm not interested in the upcoming Oppo BD player, because I already have a very good BD player.

Ab

[SwainDtV]

the problem with the oppo is if it is anything like the 983 for analog its pretty awefull. theyre really meant to be used over hdmi. if considering mch analog yoru better off with the pio 09, sony bdp-s5000es or denon 3800/marantz 8002 players. even then for bass management/speaker setup in the player for over analog I'd say the setup ability of the pio is not sufficient, the sony would be jsut probably ok though most I know use it with post processing in the pre to get good results. leaving the denon 3800/marantz 8002 cousins that I have no experience with but believe have adeqaute setup for setup to get a good result over analog.

I have the Pio 09 (LX91 in Europe). As soon as the firmware enables DTS-HD MA decoding and bass management I will use the Pio's analog out. I know I will loose my SACD/DVD-Audio support from my Lexicon, because there's only one 7.1 analog input. However if the Oppo is a good replacement, I should be able to use the Oppo's HDMI output for SACD/DVD-Audio. But now I'm confused. Which Oppo (980/983) do I need for region free DVD and SACD/DVD-Audio support?

Ab

[sikoniko]

the problem with the oppo is if it is anything like the 983 for analog its pretty awefull. theyre really meant to be used over hdmi. if considering mch analog yoru better off with the pio 09, sony bdp-s5000es or denon 3800/marantz 8002 players. even then for bass management/speaker setup in the player for over analog I'd say the setup ability of the pio is not sufficient, the sony would be jsut probably ok though most I know use it with post processing in the pre to get good results. leaving the denon 3800/marantz 8002 cousins that I have no experience with but believe have adeqaute setup for setup to get a good result over analog.

You are right. The Oppo would not be a good choice for a long-term analog solution. I kind of was trying to answer two people at the same time. I was addressing Nolan's temporary use of the SSP-600 and that he could use the Oppo BD player's analog outs to get hi-res audio into the SSP-600. IMO, that is a less than ideal solution, as the LFE is -10db. The SSP-800 has a solution for that, but the SSP-600 does not.

My recommendation to Swain for the Oppo was to use HDMI for SACD. I do believe it is region free and he could use Bass Mgmt on the SSP-800, but there are people here that would be better informed to answer that than I am.

My point was that it is surprising to me that manufacturers make a product that has a specific feature (SACD) that is sent out via analog outputs, and they did not incorporate bass management. I'm not quite sure what they are thinking there. Perhaps we should question their target audience? Why would you let the player to the processing, then send it to the receiver to be processed again? That is not going to be good for the quality of the signal.

[sikoniko]

It's not Classé's fault. I just wondered why there is no option to enable / disable the bypass for 7.1 analog input. If audio quality is one of the reasons, than what does that say about the audio quality for the 3 stereo analog inputs. The bypass on these inputs can be enabled/disabled in the input setup.

That is only available on the first input, and when plugging the source in via XLR, not SE.

I like my Lexicon DVD player a lot. However I do hear so many positive things about the Oppo, maybe it's time to try one. So to replace my Lexicon I would have to buy the Oppo 980? I'm not interested in the upcoming Oppo BD player, because I already have a very good BD player.
Ab

That could be tough. It might be that you like what your Lexicon does better than the Oppo. The thing about the Oppo is it is very affordable, and I believe you can return it if you don't like it. It could be a viable solution. I think the Oppo offers some benefits over your Lexicon. The Lexicon, for me, would not be ideal, since you can't use the Bypass mode of the SSP.

I only use my Oppo for SACD/DVD-A though. I use the Sonos for all 2 channel.

[sikoniko]

I have the Pio 09 (LX91 in Europe). As soon as the firmware enables DTS-HD MA decoding and bass management I will use the Pio's analog out. I know I will loose my SACD/DVD-Audio support from my Lexicon, because there's only one 7.1 analog input. However if the Oppo is a good replacement, I should be able to use the Oppo's HDMI output for SACD/DVD-Audio. But now I'm confused. Which Oppo (980/983) do I need for region free DVD and SACD/DVD-Audio support?

Ab

Why use the analog out of the Pioneer? Why not HDMI? If it will do the decoding onboard, just use HDMI. The SSP will receive it as PCM and play it back in DTS-MA quality.

I think the Oppo 980 is the best bang for the buck. I believe the difference is that the 983 has a better scaler in it. So if you will use the Oppo for SD DVD's, than you might want to consider the 983. But if it is just for DVD-A/ SACD, get the 980.

[Nolan B]

the problem with the oppo is if it is anything like the 983 for analog its pretty awefull. theyre really meant to be used over hdmi. if considering mch analog yoru better off with the pio 09, sony bdp-s5000es or denon 3800/marantz 8002 players. even then for bass management/speaker setup in the player for over analog I'd say the setup ability of the pio is not sufficient, the sony would be jsut probably ok though most I know use it with post processing in the pre to get good results. leaving the denon 3800/marantz 8002 cousins that I have no experience with but believe have adeqaute setup for setup to get a good result over analog.

this is what I am anticipating and will likely cause me to hang on to my 1069 until i can just buy the 800. I really wish Classe would come out with a stripped down version of the 800 which was all digital and 3k less. According to Classe though a different version of the 800 isnt on the books.

[wettou]

I really wish Classe would come out with a stripped down version of the 800 which was all digital and $3k less. According to Classe though a different version of the 800 isnt on the books.

Yes, I would love that to no analogue for those of us that believe in a digital age

Only HDMi connections

with DSP decoding all new Codec, THX Ultra 2 Plus and Audyssey Pro

[Srrndhound]

I really wish Classe would come out with a stripped down version of the 800 which was all digital and 3k less. According to Classe though a different version of the 800 isnt on the books.

I will not buy a processor without DACs! :B

Seriously, you think the A-D and some RCA jacks accounts for 30% of the product's cost? Where's the "no way" emoticon?

[Nolan B]

I will not buy a processor without DACs! :B

Seriously, you think the A-D and some RCA jacks accounts for 30% of the product's cost? Where's the "no way" emoticon?

there are other things they could remove too...like the EQ and balanced outputs, two HDMI outputs, make it 5.1 instead of 7.1

Fact is no matter what they price it at there will always be someone like me saying "if it was just 30% less". Question is are there enough like me out there? I dont know, but I do know for sure that as someone who is willing to drop 5k on a processor makes me a very valuable prospect.


I am almost certain that classe wont make another less expensive version, nor do I feel the have to as the SSP 800 is "good value". Its not always about value and I may have to accept the 800 is out of my price range at least for the near future.

[hifiguymi]

there are other things they could remove too...like the EQ and balanced outputs, two HDMI outputs, make it 5.1 instead of 7.1

Fact is no matter what they price it at there will always be someone like me saying "if it was just 30% less". Question is are there enough like me out there? I dont know, but I do know for sure that as someone who is willing to drop 5k on a processor makes me a very valuable prospect.


I am almost certain that classe wont make another less expensive version, nor do I feel the have to as the SSP 800 is "good value". Its not always about value and I may have to accept the 800 is out of my price range at least for the near future.

If Rotel does build the RSP-1590 and price it around $4000.00 (you could insert Arcam, NAD, or someone similar to Rotel that might, or do, do the same thing) that is 7.1, has four-plus HDMI inputs, a really good preamp section, some form of EQ (auto or manual), that would make a stripped down SSP-800 type product hard to sell. That's not who Classe are.

I can't fault you for wanting a piece like that but I don't think it will happen. I've talked to Tom at Classe and my rep Marc about this very topic and the SSP-800 is it (and the rack mount version that is coming later this year).

Eric

[beden1]

Yes, I would love that to no analogue for those of us that believe in a digital age

Only HDMi connections

with DSP decoding all new Codec, THX Ultra 2 Plus and Audyssey Pro

Just go out and buy the Denon AVP and move on. It has all that you're looking for.

[Nolan B]

If Rotel does build the RSP-1590 and price it around $4000.00 (you could insert Arcam, NAD, or someone similar to Rotel that might, or do, do the same thing) that is 7.1, has four-plus HDMI inputs, a really good preamp section, some form of EQ (auto or manual), that would make a stripped down SSP-800 type product hard to sell. That's not who Classe are.

I can't fault you for wanting a piece like that but I don't think it will happen. I've talked to Tom at Classe and my rep Marc about this very topic and the SSP-800 is it (and the rack mount version that is coming later this year).

Eric

I understand that and it makes sense.

[btf1980]

Its not always about value and I may have to accept the 800 is out of my price range at least for the near future.

As was suggested by hifiguymi, you could conceivably wait for Rotel to release the RSP-1590, but to be frank, I am not confident in Rotel and prepros at this stage. Just too many issues.

One prepro that I think is fantastic is the Marantz AV8003. At the asking price, I think it's a steal. It might not have the prestige of Classe, but I have been very happy with mine. Should be worth a consideration if the SSP-800 is out of price range and you are considering Rotel.

[Nolan B]

As was suggested by hifiguymi, you could conceivably wait for Rotel to release the RSP-1590, but to be frank, I am not confident in Rotel and prepros at this stage. Just too many issues.

One prepro that I think is fantastic is the Marantz AV8003. At the asking price, I think it's a steal. It might not have the prestige of Classe, but I have been very happy with mine. Should be worth a consideration if the SSP-800 is out of price range and you are considering Rotel.

One of the main reasons I want a classe processor is to match my classe amp. I wouldnt consider any other processor then classe at this point because my 1069 is a good processor. It would need to perform much better then my Rotel and have the looks to match my amp...which is why i want the 800 and was considering a 600 in the mean time.

[Srrndhound]

there are other things they could remove too...like the EQ and balanced outputs, two HDMI outputs, make it 5.1 instead of 7.1

EQ and HDMI are digital, so they'd stay under your original "all digital" definition. Since they cost almost nothing, it still wouldn't help reduce the cost to remove them.

Now, get rid of that fat, curved chassis... :lol:

[SwainDtV]

That is only available on the first input, and when plugging the source in via XLR, not SE.
.

The bypass should be available on all 3 analog inputs. In my setup I have my CD player and Turntable connected to the 2 RCA analog inputs. Both are bypass enabled. The trick is that you can only enable bypass on an active input. So first activate the input you want to change and then go into the input setup. This also applies to setting the analog offset level.

Ab

[SwainDtV]

Why use the analog out of the Pioneer? Why not HDMI? If it will do the decoding onboard, just use HDMI. The SSP will receive it as PCM and play it back in DTS-MA quality.

I think the Oppo 980 is the best bang for the buck. I believe the difference is that the 983 has a better scaler in it. So if you will use the Oppo for SD DVD's, than you might want to consider the 983. But if it is just for DVD-A/ SACD, get the 980.

One of the strong points about the Pio 09 (and a big part of the price tag) is the excellent analog output stage. It would be foolish not to compare the analog out with the HDMI out.

If I decide to buy an Oppo it will replace the Lexicon which I also use for most of my SD DVD's. Quality of the scaler is important.

Ab

[sikoniko]

The bypass should be available on all 3 analog inputs. In my setup I have my CD player and Turntable connected to the 2 RCA analog inputs. Both are bypass enabled. The trick is that you can only enable bypass on an active input. So first activate the input you want to change and then go into the input setup. This also applies to setting the analog offset level.

Ab

guess you learn something every day. I was under the impression that it was only available on input 1 and when XLR's were selected. That is the only time I had seen it selectable. I'll look at it tonight. :T

[sikoniko]

One of the strong points about the Pio 09 (and a big part of the price tag) is the excellent analog output stage. It would be foolish not to compare the analog out with the HDMI out.

If I decide to buy an Oppo it will replace the Lexicon which I also use for most of my SD DVD's. Quality of the scaler is important.

Ab

Let us know your thoughts when you compare. Differences will be subtle. I'm not a fan of using analog 7.1 inputs. Had a bad experience with it with my HDDVD / SSP-600. I know the SSP-800 corrected some of those issues, but I'm still gunshy.

[Nolan B]

Let us know your thoughts when you compare. Differences will be subtle. I'm not a fan of using analog 7.1 inputs. Had a bad experience with it with my HDDVD / SSP-600. I know the SSP-800 corrected some of those issues, but I'm still gunshy.

And your experience with HD DVD/600 was bad because of the base management issue?

[sikoniko]

And your experience with HD DVD/600 was bad because of the base management issue?

I guess bad is a poor choice of words. Perhaps it took extra effor to get it working...

Overall, I felt that it sounded fantastic, but the bass was missing using the analog outputs of the HDDVD player. To get around it, I boosted the volume on the sub by 10db. This supposedly fixed the HDDVD issue, but then I had way too much bass for everything else. So I had to setup a second configuration for everything else. The system automatically calibrated the sub appropriately, but IMO, it still wasn't as seemless as it is now, or it was watching the movie with an optical connection.

In the end, I went back to watching my HDDVDs with an optical connection.

The SSP-600 is a very good pre/pro and you might find that you like it better with just DD and DTS, than your Rotel with PCM and whatever else it does.

While the Rotel might support the new codec's, I just don't feel that it is built as well as the Classe. I find it overly harsh and metallic sounding.

[Nolan B]

One feature missing from processors including the 600/800 is a IR eye on the back of the processor. I hate the idea of ruining the look of the front of the processor by taping a IR repeater on the front.

It wouldnt cost must to ad an extra on on the back..i wonder why there isnt one

[hifiguymi]

One feature missing from processors including the 600/800 is a IR eye on the back of the processor. I hate the idea of ruining the look of the front of the processor by taping a IR repeater on the front.

It wouldnt cost must to ad an extra on on the back..i wonder why there isnt one

That is what the IR input on the back is for. All of the Rotel and Classe pieces have them. The one thing that sucks about the Classe is you need an extra little box called the Delta IR to strip the carrier signal off the IR data before their pieces will understand the command. Outside of that, it's nothing more than a mono 3.5mm cable going from an output on whatever connecting block, or RF remote base, into the IR input. I use them all of the time and they work great.

Eric

[sikoniko]

One feature missing from processors including the 600/800 is a IR eye on the back of the processor. I hate the idea of ruining the look of the front of the processor by taping a IR repeater on the front.

It wouldnt cost must to ad an extra on on the back..i wonder why there isnt one

My SSP is behind me. I don't have an eye taped to it and it recognizes my commands when I am pointing forward. It is really sensitive.

[Nolan B]

My SSP is behind me. I don't have an eye taped to it and it recognizes my commands when I am pointing forward. It is really sensitive.

interesting. Is that using the classe remote or a universal remote? My friends B&O equipment is like that. Its so sensitive its like having RF

[sikoniko]

interesting. Is that using the classe remote or a universal remote? My friends B&O equipment is like that. Its so sensitive its like having RF

I use a Harmony One.

[wettou]

I use a Harmony One.

Great remote so do I Classé SP-800 has the codes

[skuzzyb]

interesting. Is that using the classe remote or a universal remote? My friends B&O equipment is like that. Its so sensitive its like having RF

I use a philips pronto with my SSP using the IR input in the back and the delta IR interface box. No need for ir repeaters in front. Of course it is going to a philips processor to send the signals but it has been bulletproof.

[Nolan B]

Update:

Looks like I am going to pick up the SSP 600 for the following reasons.

1.) I have a promise that the price I pay for the SSP 600 I will get as full trade in value when I decide to trade in my SSP 600 towards the SSP 800.

2.) My gaming, TV watching, Apple TV (all my SD DVDS) and most importantly my music via Mac Mini will greatly benefit from the SSP 600 over the 1069

3.) For BD, SACD and DVDA i plan on buying the Oppo BDP 83 which has base management and allows you to set speaker distance, trim (for each channel +- 10db) and cross over set at 80. Reports are the analog outputs perfrom very well.

4.) The SSP 600 will look great in my system and fill a hole which screams for it.

5.) I like changing things up and pulling my current 1069 out of my cabinet leaves and open spot for my PS3 which currently sits next to it and doesnt look great.

6.) Video will not be affected as I will use my DVDO HDMI switcher.

7.) Rebelman told me to go for it :T

8.) Better speakers are coming regardless of my choice, and I am looking more forward to hear the difference changing the ones I have when having a full classe setup. Strange, but true.

[btf1980]

Update:

Looks like I am going to pick up the SSP 600 for the following reasons.

1.) I have a promise that the price I pay for the SSP 600 I will get as full trade in value when I decide to trade in my SSP 600 towards the SSP 800.

You have an awesome dealer. Hang on to that one. :T