CA-2200 or CA-5200

[beden1]

EDIT by MODERATOR, this post is inflammatory, and I expect to see more of this as this thread continues, it will stop here. period. Doug

maybe... maybe not. which speakers are we talking about? for instance, my system has a CA-3200 for LCR and the CA-5100 for rears and surrounds. You could continue to use the 5100 for all speakers but L/R and get either a CA-2200 or a pair of CA-M400's. Rebelman is using a single channel on his CA-5100 for his HTM1D and he hasn't been in any hurry to biamp or replace it...

I'm just sayin'

But, he will be replacing it sooner than later! Running an HTM1D with 100 watts is a waste of a good speaker, especially since his mains are powered with CAM-400s.

Sikoniko should run for a government office with the half truths! He'd fit right in with all the other politicians.

[sikoniko]

But, he will be replacing it sooner than later! Running an HTM1D with 100 watts is a waste of a good speaker, especially since his mains are powered with CAM-400s.

Sikoniko should run for a government office with the half truths! He'd fit right in with all the other politicians.

:M you have some nerve to insult people. :M

I refuse to step to your level and will bite my tongue, even though you continue to prod and poke.

The point isn't whether he will or will not add power to it. the point is that the amp is sufficiently powering the speaker - in his case for 3 weeks or more and he hasn't ordered the cables to make it happen yet. It is NOT a waiste of a good speaker.

quit injecting your personal opinions that are baseless and pose them as fact.

[beden1]

:M you have some nerve to insult people. :M

I refuse to step to your level and will bite my tongue, even though you continue to prod and poke.

The point isn't whether he will or will not add power to it. the point is that the amp is sufficiently powering the speaker - in his case for 3 weeks or more and he hasn't ordered the cables to make it happen yet. It is NOT a waiste of a good speaker.

quit injecting your personal opinions that are baseless and pose them as fact.

That's what I have been trying to infer to you. I am presenting my own experienced opinions at least, and not trying to speak for someone else like Rebelman.

Such in this case, there have been numerous posts over the past year with people looking to increase power and run their speakers more efficiently. It is my opinion that someone interested in getting the proper power for their speakers should at least go to the middle of the road, as opposed to the minimum requirements. Going with 100 watts per channel now, is just setting up for an upgrade later. Why waste the money?

I did upgrade my power and found very positive results . . . so why is that baseless?

[sikoniko]

That's what I have been trying to infer to you. I am presenting my own experienced opinions at least, and not trying to speak for someone else like Rebelman.

so you've heard an HTM1D hooked up to a CA-5100?

[beden1]

so you've heard an HTM1D hooked up to a CA-5100?

I was not happy with my HTM2D powered with just 150 watts, so I would imagine it would be inadequate. Why, have you, or are you just trying to speak for Rebelman?

[AV-OCD]

That's what I have been trying to infer to you. I am presenting my own experienced opinions at least, and not trying to speak for someone else like Rebelman.

Such in this case, there have been numerous posts over the past year with people looking to increase power and run their speakers more efficiently. It is my opinion that someone interested in getting the proper power for their speakers should at least go to the middle of the road, as opposed to the minimum requirements. Going with 100 watts per channel now, is just setting up for an upgrade later. Why waste the money?

I did upgrade my power and found very positive results . . . so why is that baseless?

I disagree. I own Revel Studio2's that are 400 watt capable and I have run them off of CAM400's, CA-2200 and now CA5100 and there has been no audible difference between the three *at the volume levels that I listen at*.

The wattage needed for a given application depends on three things. The sensitivity of the speakers, the volume of playback you want to achieve, and the distance from you to the speakers. Nothing more, nothing less. Doesn't matter if you speakers have one bass driver or twelve, the above dictates the power requirements. There is one other factor and that is the impedance of your speakers and the current output capability of the amp, but all Classe amps provide enough current for even 4 Ohm nominal speakers.

Let's use your pair of 803D's for example:

• The 803D’s have a sensitivity rating of 90dB for 1 speaker for 1 watt at 1 meter.
• With a pair, you gain 3dB. So now you have 93dB with just 1 watt of power.
• You also have room gain, which varies by room from 3 to 6dB. Lets use 3db to be conservative, bringing the total to 96dB for 1 watt at 1 meter.
• You have to subtract 6dB for every doubling of distance from the 1 meter point. So if you sit 12 feet away from your speakers, we are now down to 84dB of output for 1 watt at 4 meters away. This is our starting point.
• With an amp you get a 3dB increase in output for every doubling of power.
• At 1 watt, you will get 84dB from the pair of 803D’s at the 4 meter listening position.
• To get 87dB you need 2 watts, for 90dB you need 4 watts, for 93dB you need 8 watts and so on.
• Continue up the scale to 100 watts and you get a total gain of roughly 20dB.
• Add this 20dB of amp gain to the 84dB from above and you have the ability to listen at a constant volume of 104dB. Plus, any of the Classe amps are going to have reserve power for peaks above this (not enough for the dynamic swings of Classical, but probably enough for Rock / Pop).
• However, we probably don’t want to push the amp to it’s limits, so lets leave 10dB of headroom at set the max volume to 94dB.


Have you ever listened to 94dB? It is very loud. Most people like to listen between 75 and 85dB. If you refer to the above calculations, 85dB is going to require under 2 watts of power!

So lets say you splurge and go for the CA5200. Since a doubling of power only gets you an increase of 3dB at the top of the amp’s range, you can now blast your ears with 107dB of sound over the 104dB provided by the CA5100. I’ll never use it and frankly not many will. Those that do won’t need to for long, as their hearing will be permanently damaged if they listen that loud on a continual basis.

Just my two cents. Believe what you want.

- Tim

[sikoniko]

I was not happy with my HTM2D powered with just 150 watts, so I would imagine it would be inadequate. Why, have you, or are you just trying to speak for Rebelman?

was it a CA-5100 you had hooked up to your HTM2D? no it wasn't. nothing you are saying is helpful to the OP of this thread. you are attempting to make a mockery of me and nothing more. you are arguing for the sake of arguing. fine, you get the last word. you are going back on my ignore list. this time permanently.

I won't stoop to your level of insulting. The difference is, I don't have to. you have no basis. you have no facts. you don't even have the experience. you use insults to try and make your case, because you have none.

For the benefit of the OP, my dealer has the CAP-100 setup to a pair of 802D's and it sounds just fine. This is the 2ch integrated from Classe that is 2x100. It actually sounds better than the 700W krell that was hooked up. The CA-5100 will power ANY B&W speaker. The higher the level, more noticeable there will be a strain if you listen at high SPL's. Average level SPL's, I challenge anyone to do a DBT and be able to identify which amp is being used. There is more to an amp than the numbers in front of the W.

We can't predict the future, but in times of attempting to be budget minded, this might be the best solution. I bought my CA-5100 from Audiogon for less than half the cost of one new. Like I suggested before, as your speakers grow, you still have options with the CA-5100 that don't necessarily mean that it needs to be replaced.

[style]

Hi Carlos,

in the past i have had the 703 than the 803S and now the 83D.
the 803D is for me the ideal speakers. not too much big for my room, great performance... :T

If do you can buy the 803S with the htm3S... for the rear you can buy
with the time the 805S... but at the first time a CM1 or 685 is sure no bad.

Firt: make a good front (Left-Center-Right) speakers combination with a similar sound. don't make a mix D and S series: you will not have a good timbre .. But I I dont know how you want to put as budget limit....

Omar

[beden1]

I disagree. I own Revel Studio2's that are 400 watt capable and I have run them off of CAM400's, CA-2200 and now CA5100 and there has been no audible difference between the three *at the volume levels that I listen at*.

The wattage needed for a given application depends on three things. The sensitivity of the speakers, the volume of playback you want to achieve, and the distance from you to the speakers. Nothing more, nothing less. Doesn't matter if you speakers have one bass driver or twelve, the above dictates the power requirements. There is one other factor and that is the impedance of your speakers and the current output capability of the amp, but all Classe amps provide enough current for even 4 Ohm nominal speakers.

Let's use your pair of 803D's for example:

• The 803D’s have a sensitivity rating of 90dB for 1 speaker for 1 watt at 1 meter.
• With a pair, you gain 3dB. So now you have 93dB with just 1 watt of power.
• You also have room gain, which varies by room from 3 to 6dB. Lets use 3db to be conservative, bringing the total to 96dB for 1 watt at 1 meter.
• You have to subtract 6dB for every doubling of distance from the 1 meter point. So if you sit 12 feet away from your speakers, we are now down to 84dB of output for 1 watt at 4 meters away. This is our starting point.
• With an amp you get a 3dB increase in output for every doubling of power.
• At 1 watt, you will get 84dB from the pair of 803D’s at the 4 meter listening position.
• To get 87dB you need 2 watts, for 90dB you need 4 watts, for 93dB you need 8 watts and so on.
• Continue up the scale to 100 watts and you get a total gain of roughly 20dB.
• Add this 20dB of amp gain to the 84dB from above and you have the ability to listen at a constant volume of 104dB. Plus, any of the Classe amps are going to have reserve power for peaks above this (not enough for the dynamic swings of Classical, but probably enough for Rock / Pop).
• However, we probably don’t want to push the amp to it’s limits, so lets leave 10dB of headroom at set the max volume to 94dB.


Have you ever listened to 94dB? It is very loud. Most people like to listen between 75 and 85dB. If you refer to the above calculations, 85dB is going to require under 2 watts of power!

So lets say you splurge and go for the CA5200. Since a doubling of power only gets you an increase of 3dB at the top of the amp’s range, you can now blast your ears with 107dB of sound over the 104dB provided by the CA5100. I’ll never use it and frankly not many will. Those that do won’t need to for long, as their hearing will be permanently damaged if they listen that loud on a continual basis.

Just my two cents. Believe what you want.

- Tim

I started this thread last year that may explain my point better.

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=30067

I'm confused by your explanation, but, a sensitivity of 90dB at 1 meter is not very efficient. I have speakers in another setup that have a sensitivity rating of 93dB at 3 meters. Even as these speakers are three times more efficient than are my 803Ds, the manufacturer recommended a minimum power of about 200+ watts per channel RMS. I don't have the manual with me here, and will be able to give the exact power, measurements, and scientific reasoning as provided by the manufacturer when I return to PA in a couple of weeks. This owner's manual was written in 1976.

Now, today's speakers are using many different materials for the speaker cones, whereas paper was primarily used in the 1970's and earlier. It takes much more current to efficiently move these greater masses like the B&W Rohacell® sandwich cone woofers. To me, this becomes much more apparent at low/lower volumes, and when I want a full body of sound at these, and all volume levels. At the lower levels, I have now achieved the results I wanted by more than doubling the wattage of my amps driving the speakers. I went from 150 to 350 watts of Classe amps power.

[beden1]

Here are some of the points that I found particularly interesting.

"It is especially important that adequate short-term current reserves be available for when musical peaks demand that large currents be delivered to the loudspeaker."

"Power supplies with larger power transformers and larger amounts of filter capacitance will help an amplifier sound better. Put simply, the power supply is important to the extent that it is under-sized."

"The amplifier power supply draws almost all of its current from the a.c. line only during the short time interval at the top and bottom of the sine wave when the rectifiers are conducting. This time interval may only be 10 percent of the total cycle."

"Thus, when your amp demands a burst of 12 Amps from a nominal 120V line with an impedance of one Ohm, you'll lose about 12 volts at the peak, or about 10% of your supply voltage. Since power goes as the square of voltage, the peak output power capability of your amp will drop 20% as compared to a perfect 120V line voltage source. This sounds bad, but the simplest cure is to use a slightly larger power amplifier in the first place."

"Better house wiring, and maybe a dedicated 10 AWG line to a 20-Amp breaker will help a lot (much more than a $100 6-ft beefy boutique power cord). If the power supply is well-designed, fancy power cords, outlets and power conditioners shouldn't matter much."

"Getting rid of hash, RF noise and transients on power lines is the job of a power conditioner, not an expensive power cord. Spend $50 on a good power strip with an EMI filter to protect your equipment, and you'll have most of the benefit you need."

"The argument for boutique power cords is far weaker than the argument for boutique speaker cables, and even the latter is on thin ice at times."

"the power supplies in pre-amps and CD players want to be regulated well and with low noise. Of course, if you are paying $500 or more for a preamp, it should darn well already have an excellent power supply."

"Power supply upgrades are most likely to make a difference in inexpensive mass-market components where every penny was pinched (or in high-end gear where the designer didn't know much about power supplies)."

"well-designed SS amps operating well below clipping, that are not misbehaving, and which have high damping factor across the band, will tend to sound the same. Note that some very expensive SS amps do not meet the criteria of this caveat - sometimes as a result of misguided design decisions intended to "improve" the sound."

"Different SS amplifiers will often sound different if they are driven into clipping (which happens more often than some realize)."

"Finally, some (often high-end) amplifiers are designed with inadequate stability margin when driving capacitive loads, like some boutique speaker cables. I had this happen to my amplifier using Transparent Cables. After shutting down the amplifier, I would get a sound like a fireworks rocket shooting up into the sky. It was due to the cables with whatever capacitor they have in them. The problem is gone now that I went to straight speaker wire. It also created a dull hum while playing which is now gone as well.

"Absence of any kind of misbehavior and graceful clipping, lots of power, high current capability, graceful or no protection circuits, absence of coloration (flat frequency response when driving actual speaker loads), and stability under capacitive loads."

"I strongly prefer MOSFET output stages to bipolars, and their cost premium is continuing to come down."

"Do preamps affect the sound more than power amps?
Only if they are really bad, or, perhaps deliberately, incorporate circuitry and technology that will color the sound."

"Preamps that use poor-quality voltage-controlled gain circuits in place of high-quality potentiometers might also introduce some degradation as well."

"Spec sheets in many ways are nearly worthless. Forget about spec sheets for boutique amps."

"Without getting into how power is measured, how much power do we really need?
Much more than we think. Ideally, if you are really serious about high-end audio, your amplifier should never, ever clip. In reality, amps clip more often than we think, especially on well-recorded music that has high dynamic range,"

"High-end audio will forever embrace "big-iron" power amplifiers. However, on the average there will be migration toward more use of IC power amps, like the LM3886, and the use of Class-D amplifiers. However, it seems unlikely that one will ever make a Class-D amplifier that can sonically outperform the best-designed Class A-B amps. The newer, less expensive and more compact amplifier technologies may also help foster the migration of the power amplifiers into the cabinets of active loudspeakers."

"If you like uncolored sound, go solid state. If you like the coloration that tubes add to the sound, then go with tubes, recognizing that the coloration will often be a strong function of what speakers are used."

[beden1]

Here is a snipet of a previous post regarding this issue.

I originally got the idea to get a more powerful amp for my 803Ds, when I recently (about 8 months ago) purchased a used Aragon 8008 X 3 amp (300 watts X 3 channels) for another setup. This setup uses A/D/S 910s that I've had since buying new in around 1974-5. These are very efficient speakers at 93 dB at 3 meters (the 803D sensitivity is 90dB at 1 meter). In the owner's manual, it had the same graphs for determining what power is needed to run these speakers at optimum. It takes into consideration the size of the room, seating distance, etc. I used to use a two channel Aragon amp rated at 125 watts RMS to drive these speakers. The Aragon 8008 X 3's output, according to their chart for these speakers, would be at the top of their scale for peak performance. With the new amp, my A/D/S sound spectacular, and the difference made me mad at myself for not doing this sooner.

My 803Ds sound very good using my current amp, but driven through my CP-500 for 2 channel, they could stand to be more dynamic/full sounding (even in the room that is large and I would classify as being on the lively side). The 803Ds are listed at 90dB sensitivity at 1 meter. At this level, even my A/D/S graph from the 1970's showed they would need 500 watts per channel for optimum performance.

[sikoniko]

you know beden, with all due respect, are you sure you like the b&w sound? You made comment to not caring for the marlan mid'. Could it be that you might prefer a different tonal character? Wilson? Usher?

There is certainly nothing wrong with your preference to the 803D over 802d and up. I just am starting to think that perhaps you are pushing a square peg into a round hole.

If we consider that the 800D is the reference piece for the entire product sweet of B&W, then everything else is trickle down technology to meet a price point. Imaging is what B&W does best IMO.

[beden1]

was it a CA-5100 you had hooked up to your HTM2D? no it wasn't. nothing you are saying is helpful to the OP of this thread. you are attempting to make a mockery of me and nothing more. you are arguing for the sake of arguing. fine, you get the last word. you are going back on my ignore list. this time permanently.

I won't stoop to your level of insulting. The difference is, I don't have to. you have no basis. you have no facts. you don't even have the experience. you use insults to try and make your case, because you have none.

For the benefit of the OP, my dealer has the CAP-100 setup to a pair of 802D's and it sounds just fine. This is the 2ch integrated from Classe that is 2x100. It actually sounds better than the 700W krell that was hooked up. The CA-5100 will power ANY B&W speaker. The higher the level, more noticeable there will be a strain if you listen at high SPL's. Average level SPL's, I challenge anyone to do a DBT and be able to identify which amp is being used. There is more to an amp than the numbers in front of the W.

We can't predict the future, but in times of attempting to be budget minded, this might be the best solution. I bought my CA-5100 from Audiogon for less than half the cost of one new. Like I suggested before, as your speakers grow, you still have options with the CA-5100 that don't necessarily mean that it needs to be replaced.

POST DELETED BY ADMIN, Reference to other forum, and business that does not concern you will not be allowed at HTG:

Admins

[beden1]

you know beden, with all due respect, are you sure you like the b&w sound? You made comment to not caring for the marlan mid'. Could it be that you might prefer a different tonal character? Wilson? Usher?

There is certainly nothing wrong with your preference to the 803D over 802d and up. I just am starting to think that perhaps you are pushing a square peg into a round hole.

If we consider that the 800D is the reference piece for the entire product sweet of B&W, then everything else is trickle down technology to meet a price point. Imaging is what B&W does best IMO.

Another comment from out in left field? Just because I seem to have a personal problem with the sound coming from the marlan head (as I explained it may have more to do with the way it looks), does not mean that I don't enjoy the B&W sound.

As far as pushing a square peg into a round hole, I really don't understand what this means? Are you saying I can't be in your B&W Club just because I personally prefer my 803D's over the 802Ds? Again, I guess I must like everything you own, just because you own it?

Please grow up. WHOOOPS another strike says Admins, keep your physical growth and maturity comments aimed toward the mirror please.

[cmilach]

CA-5200 with B&W803D

Hi Carlos,

in the past i have had the 703 than the 803S and now the 83D.
the 803D is for me the ideal speakers. not too much big for my room, great performance... :T

If do you can buy the 803S with the htm3S... for the rear you can buy
with the time the 805S... but at the first time a CM1 or 685 is sure no bad.

Firt: make a good front (Left-Center-Right) speakers combination with a similar sound. don't make a mix D and S series: you will not have a good timbre .. But I I dont know how you want to put as budget limit....

Omar

Omar,

So,
Can I use the CA5200 with the B&W803D without problems?
"Never" needs of Speakers upgrades...?

Thanks,
Carlos

[sikoniko]

Another comment from out in left field? Just because I seem to have a personal problem with the sound coming from the marlan head (as I explained it may have more to do with the way it looks), does not mean that I don't enjoy the B&W sound.

As far as pushing a square peg into a round hole, I really don't understand what this means? Are you saying I can't be in your B&W Club just because I personally prefer my 803D's over the 802Ds? Again, I guess I must like everything you own, just because you own it?

Please grow up.

you are the most rude, offensive, self serviant and whiny person I have ever met. If you don't get your way, you throw a little temper tantrum. It is you that is insinuating all these things that you claim I am being. Noone has asked me to stop posting anywhere. :roll: You attacked me for differing from your opinion. I called you out on it, just like I call you out on your little whiny tirades. You take no responsibility for anything you do or say. you deserve yourself, and you deserve the problems you have, because you are part of the problem.

there. I did it. I stooped to your level. can we move on now? You are now officially ignored. Take your complaint to the mods. At this point I don't care if I get kicked from this board. you ruin it for everyone.

[wettou]

This thread is becoming rude, please let's us stay civil we all are entiteled to our opinion. Just to remind everyone these are just opinions and nothing more. We are not looking at exact science here only using our own sensory perceptions of what we like and dislike.

No one has to be converted to any religion, or political party we are enjoying a hobby, so if we feel strongly about an opinion fine but let's keep it gentlemanly Peace

By the way don't forget the music, do yourself a favor and listen to this CD very nice

:T

[AV-OCD]

Benden1 -

Those ADS speakers are amazingly efficient if that sensitivity rating is to be beleived. 88dB @ 1M is average these days, and 90dB @ 1M is considered very good.

Here's a guy that runs his 93dB @ 1M sensitive speakers with 16 Watts per channel, driving them to "earthshaking levels".

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1228138071

The use of low powered amps is quite common with speakers that are only 3dB more sensitive than yours.

Oh and speaker power consumption has little to do with the cone material or its weight. The size of the voice coil and the number of windings of wire determine the impedance, and the weight of the cone along with the stiffness of the suspension determine the resonance frequency.

- Tim

[beden1]

Benden1 -

Those ADS speakers are amazingly efficient if that sensitivity rating is to be beleived. 88dB @ 1M is average these days, and 90dB @ 1M is considered very good.

Here's a guy that runs his 93dB @ 1M sensitive speakers with 16 Watts per channel, driving them to "earthshaking levels".

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1228138071

The use of low powered amps is quite common with speakers that are only 3dB more sensitive than yours.

Oh and speaker power consumption has little to do with the cone material or its weight. The size of the voice coil and the number of windings of wire determine the impedance, and the weight of the cone along with the stiffness of the suspension determine the resonance frequency.

- Tim

Tim,so

I thought it was the combination of the size of the voice coil, etc, and the size/material of the cone that determined the sensitivity, but I'm not an engineer so I really don't know for sure. Thank you for clearing that up.

After listening to my A/D/S 910s since 1976, I now enjoy better performance since more than doubling the power driving them. For the lack of better terminology, there is better bloom, depth and clarity at all volume levels.

I am now enjoying the same since more than doubling the power driving my 803D's.

My only explanation is that they are now able to perform more efficiently with more headroom.

[beden1]

you are the most rude, offensive, self serviant and whiny person I have ever met. If you don't get your way, you throw a little temper tantrum. It is you that is insinuating all these things that you claim I am being. Noone has asked me to stop posting anywhere. :roll: You attacked me for differing from your opinion. I called you out on it, just like I call you out on your little whiny tirades. You take no responsibility for anything you do or say. you deserve yourself, and you deserve the problems you have, because you are part of the problem.

there. I did it. I stooped to your level. can we move on now? You are now officially ignored. Take your complaint to the mods. At this point I don't care if I get kicked from this board. you ruin it for everyone.

Yup, that's exactly how you tried to bully people over at AVS when they didn't agree with your opinions.

[sikoniko]

Yup, that's exactly how you tried to bully people over at AVS when they didn't agree with your opinions.

produce the thread.

[Hberg]

This thread is becoming rude, please let's us stay civil we all are entiteled to our opinion. Just to remind everyone these are just opinions and nothing more. We are not looking at exact science here only using our own sensory perceptions of what we like and dislike.

No one has to be converted to any religion, or political party we are enjoying a hobby, so if we feel strongly about an opinion fine but let's keep it gentlemanly Peace

I agree completely!!!!

[sikoniko]

I agree completely!!!!

I agree as well. The problem is I've made every attempt to remain civil, but have been verbally assaulted by lies and allegations. I'm not the one on the attack here. Up until early this morning, I hadn't said one negative thing about brooks, but he continues to attack, demean me and try to destroy my credibility. my question is, for what? to what end? I believe it is to either publicly humiliate me, and portray himself as some sort of alpha dog, or to get me to leave the boards, in which case he is peeing all over the place like he owns it.

This all started because I made a suggestion that a CA-5100 would be more than sufficient for ANY speaker the OP was looking for. AV-OCD backed me up in this with the science and math. Instead of trying to back his arguement up with facts, brooks continues to berate me.

[sikoniko]

I'm going to request that the mods lock this thread. It has gotten too out of hand and too far off the original intent.

I publicly apologize to those of you who had to watch this belittlement. I will attempt to keep my cool in the future and do what I said I would do, and ignore people that treat me in this fashion instead of letting them get to me.

[beden1]

I agree as well. The problem is I've made every attempt to remain civil, but have been verbally assaulted by lies and allegations. I'm not the one on the attack here. Up until early this morning, I hadn't said one negative thing about brooks, but he continues to attack, demean me and try to destroy my credibility. my question is, for what? to what end? I believe it is to either publicly humiliate me, and portray himself as some sort of alpha dog, or to get me to leave the boards, in which case he is peeing all over the place like he owns it.

This all started because I made a suggestion that a CA-5100 would be more than sufficient for ANY speaker the OP was looking for. AV-OCD backed me up in this with the science and math. Instead of trying to back his arguement up with facts, brooks continues to berate me.

You really need to settle down now. There are no posts humiliating you that justify your behavior. Please re-read the posts, and I will wait for your apology.

[style]

@beden1,

i'm with you.

i have the 803D too (with htm2d and I use 805S for the rear...
(Classe CA5200 + SP800)

800D: no thanks, I domt want a 125 kg. on the left + on the right side but for waht???

I find the 803D with the htm2D a PERFECT front speakers system.
the 800D is sure better but NOT all "place" from the 800D but sure better (is a individual choise!!!)
My max upgrade can be the 802D with the 803D as rear... NOTHING MORE.
if B&W come in the market with a new 80?D you say wow is the perfect , is my drean and I muss they have/buy :rofl: Sorry but for me is a stupid
"devlepement fron a normal mind!!

You have a studio room with all news acoustic resonasnce parts, you have a
proffesional multi channel enegistring "pannel" to bring the top from the 800D or a ??superior model??

I can undestand a 802d with htm2d abt a 803D for the rear but is really tge max for a super B&W fans!! MCDoggy have the 800d with the htm1d as center but for the rear he have 804s... and is a SUPER speaker system...
..but with the MC1..2watt the difference from the mc501 was not so superevidend!!! at first in the project was 3 x mono MC1.2 but now dont pay but another MC1.2 end the MC501fot the cebter is more as enought....
You are like a kind: I a have this and my friend ahve the new modell...I NEED to have the new modell to becouse without I dont have or better I dont can play my disc 8O 8O

omar

[sikoniko]

@beden1,

i'm with you.

i have the 803D too (with htm2d and I use 805S for the rear...
(Classe CA5200 + SP800)

800D: no thanks, I domt want a 125 kg. on the left + on the right side but for waht???

I find the 803D with the htm2D a PERFECT front speakers system.
the 800D is sure better but NOT all "place" from the 800D but sure better (is a individual choise!!!)
My max upgrade can be the 802D with the 803D as rear... NOTHING MORE.
if B&W come in the market with a new 80?D you say wow is the perfect , is my drean and I muss they have/buy :rofl: Sorry but for me is a stupid
"devlepement fron a normal mind!!

You have a studio room with all news acoustic resonasnce parts, you have a
proffesional multi channel enegistring "pannel" to bring the top from the 800D or a ??superior model??

I can undestand a 802d with htm2d abt a 803D for the rear but is really tge max for a super B&W fans!! MCDoggy have the 800d with the htm1d as center but for the rear he have 804s... and is a SUPER speaker system...
..but with the MC1..2watt the difference from the mc501 was not so superevidend!!! at first in the project was 3 x mono MC1.2 but now dont pay but another MC1.2 end the MC501fot the cebter is more as enought....
You are like a kind: I a have this and my friend ahve the new modell...I NEED to have the new modell to becouse without I dont have or better I dont can play my disc 8O 8O

omar

My point was completely missed and was not intended as ill-will or negative towards anyone, or the quality of the 803D. When I made the statement to brooks about not caring for the marlan head, and saying maybe the b&w house sound is not for him, I was not attempting to make a jab, or say he didnt belong here.

I was simply saying exactly what I said. perhaps there is another house sound that he would prefer better than b&w. that is not a bad thing. that is not a cut and that should not be taken as anything more than face value. perhaps the 803D is the ultimate speaker for some people, and they desire nothing more. there is nothing wrong with that either. we are all different and all have different tastes.

[Lex]

Ok, I edited some contentious remarks with my comments in bold on page two, but what I saw was Beden1 pushing the envelope all the way with contentious and rude behavior toward Sikoniko. This is your first warning, subsequent warnings could result in being removed as a poster for a initial period of 30 days, continued behavior could result in permenant expulsion from forum.

This thread is now closed.