Classe' CES '08

[RebelMan]

however, couple of small twists that make it easier for the processor to have the decoding done, is the lack of transport conversion. FOr example, I'm sure you are very aware of the myriads of LFE issues found on many processors with regards to xPCM (whehter LPCM or MPCM) transfers coming from players. With the exception of the Halcro SSP's, which have a "boost" feature of 10dB just for this PCM issue, most processors out there have this dreaded problem.......etc.

I have heard that this anomaly primarily impacted the uncompressed PCM and player based decoded audio soundtracks for the SW channel in the analog domain. As you pointed out this has been a potential sore spot for some processors and receivers.

However, the 10dB attenuation for PCM signals carried in the digital domain for the LFE channel can be compensated for in most newer processors and receivers and firmware patches have been issued to correct older ones. Classe’ has no intention of releasing a half baked solution.

While your concerns are valid in some cases, there is no need to hesitate a move up given your speculative basis regarding LFE in the upcoming SSP-800. Again, if the studios have their way you’ll have no choice in the matter anyway. You know what they say, 'If you can’t beat ‘em join ‘em'. LOL

[dmccombs]

Rebelman/All,

So when should we realistically be able to buy one of these SSP800s?

Darrell

[RebelMan]

The SSP-800 is scheduled to be released to manufacturing in March with product roll-outs scheduled for April. My guess is you'll be able to put your hands on one sometime in April or May barring any unforseen circumstances.

[skuzzyb]

I asked my B&W classe guy about the SSP 800's release in Australia/ NZ and this was his reply: In summary, echoing what RebelMan has to say.


The SSP-800 is due for US launch in May, with a NZ launch following about 2-3 months later. Our strategy relating to this launch is a follows:

Blu Ray and HD-DVD players are going to have "advanced audio features" or interactivity which involve mixing audio in real time into the disc soundtrack. Sometimes this will involved downloading audio (such as directors commentaries) from the internet, others will involve taking discrete language versions and mixing them into the various soundtrack types (DTS/Dolby etc). This will mean every language can have the full range of audio options.

Anyone wanting to take advantage of multiple audio streams that are part of next generation HD disc interactivity then decoding, mixing and panning of these sources with the native soundtrack will occur in-player. The resulting (decoded/panned/mixed) signal will be PCM based and is passed to a connected SSP via any version of HDMI.

In the case of HD DVD, there is no flag that the content provider can put on a disc to prevent Bitstream output to connected SSP. Any HD DVD player, in theory therefore can pass undecoded, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS etc. bitstreams to a next generation connected SSP for decoding. In the case of Blu-ray, there is availability of a flag that a content provider can put on a disc to prevent Bitstream output from the player. Bitstream output may or may not be available, depending on the presence of this flag, and also (possibly) whether or not the player manufacturer has implemented the Blu-ray spec properly.

I spoke to someone from the Blu Ray disc association at CES and he said that all HD decoding (Dolby True etc) is going to have to take place inside the player because they are not going to offer the ability to disable the advanced features which necessitate decoding inside the player (not the SSP). This matches what Dolby have told me as well. However Denon are about to release a Blu Ray player that can only decode HD audio formats when connected to one of their HDMI 1.3 recievers, so nothing is clear.

We know we can deliver better HD audio if we do the decoding instead of the player but we do not know how much media will be allow us to do this. This is why we are not delaying the launch of the SSP-800 until a TI processor that can decode HD audio streams is available. Instead we are launching the 800 with a DSP that can handle the decoded signals. However, we are designing the unit to be easily upgraded. We've installed a large power supply, so there's enough power to drive the bigger processor, and have enough space and pins to fit the new board.

Details on the SSP are as follows:

It will have the same size chassis as the SSP-600, and ten-channel output (both balanced and single-ended), where channels 9 & 10 can be used for extra subs in a 7.3 configuration, or 7.1 plus left and right channel subs. Alternatively, the additional channels could be assigned to the front L&R channels for biamping or set for fixed output for use by another system in another room. 5-band manual parametric EQ will be available for each of the ten channels. Each channel will also be equipped with a crossover between 40-140hz,

The SSP-800 will have four HDMI 1.3 inputs, 2 HDMI 1.3 outputs and will serve as a true HDMI repeater. There is no scaling function but we will offer On Screen Display overlay capability for all resolutions of video including 1080p. The video path will support 36-bit deep color, which will surpass the capability of video sources and displays and buy it competitive time in the market. As I mentioned, it is scheduled for launch in Spring 2008, at a price which will a premium on the SSP-800. The price has not been confirmed in the US.


SKZ

[dmccombs]

The SSP-800 is scheduled to be released to manufacturing in March with product roll-outs scheduled for April. My guess is you'll be able to put your hands on one sometime in April or May barring any unforseen circumstances.

Thanks Rebelman...

My current prepro won't be with me much longer (long story). I need to decide if the SSP-800 is worth waiting for (get an interim prepro), or if I should get something that is here and now.

I have been bit by sliding schedules before (other vendors), so I am leary of any dates like this despite the best intentions Classe may have.

[RebelMan]

My current prepro won't be with me much longer (long story). I need to decide if the SSP-800 is worth waiting for (get an interim prepro), or if I should get something that is here and now.

I have been bit by sliding schedules before (other vendors), so I am leary of any dates like this despite the best intentions Classe may have.

It will be worth the wait! Don't forget that the SSP-800 is essentially an affordable version of the SSP-900 minus the video processing boards.

As of CES '08 Classe' has confirmed that they are on schedule for a March release. While anything could happen to upset the timeline it is unlikely that it will. If you must sell your current pre/pro now then do it. But I wouldn't recommend purchasing an interim pre/pro while you wait. Assuming their are no problems in the process by the time you bought it, set it up and got use to it the SSP-800 would be out. :W

[dmccombs]

Rebelman, that doesn't add up. I could have a new prepro here in a week, and dailed in by Feb. 7. Above, you say I could get a SSP-800 around April-May. I can't do without any Prepro for 2-3 months. ;h

[RebelMan]

Sorry dmccombs, it was a facetious attempt of persuasion.

Personally a two to three month wait is breezy easy. I had to wait much longer than that to get my plasma display replaced by Pioneer. It was trying at times but well worth it in the end. I got a KURO out of the deal so I ended up better off. The new display has been working perfectly.

Similar to your situation I could have picked up an interim display for the time but decided to hold out. ( The seeds of doubt have just been planted! :twisted: )

[ssabripo]

btw, interesting discussion developing on avs as well:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=982277

[dmccombs]

Personally a two to three month wait is breezy easy. I had to wait much longer than that to get my plasma display replaced by Pioneer. It was trying at times but well worth it in the end. I got a KURO out of the deal so I ended up better off. The new display has been working perfectly.

Similar to your situation I could have picked up an interim display for the time but decided to hold out. ( The seeds of doubt have just been planted! :twisted: )

Rebelman,

Thanks for the suggestions. I appreciate the comments.

I would agree that 2-3 month wait is not a big deal. BUT, I just spent 10 months waiting for the Halcro HDMI upgrade. I finally got it, and the HDMI is not working 100% for me.

I have been through 3 units already, two of them were "known working units". But, none work properly for me. I had previously used 2 of my sources and cables with no problems, with my Denon 3806 reciever, but these same items don't work with the Halcros.

So, when you (or anyone) suggests waiting for a new unproven product, it is going to be a hard sell. I have Classe amps, and would love to get a working SSP-800. I am just worried about the real ship date, and weather Classe will have a working HDMI Audio right away. Most vendors have had to go through 6-12 months of firmware revisions to get a working HDMI Audio.

Either way, I have to do something now, as I need to ship the Halcro back on Monday. Either I get something for the 2-12 months until Classe has the SSP-800 out, and has HDMI Audio working. Or I get a proven solution like the Lexicon 12HD or Anthem D2 now.

Thanks,
Darrell

[hifiguymi]

Darrell,

Classe has had a couple of working SSP-900's at the factory for quite a while now, so I would be surprised if they have problems with the SSP-800. Classe is very aware that customers like you don't want to deal with a unit that isn't right out of the gate. They don't want to deal with having to replace units (like your experience with the Halcro preamp) either. It costs a manufacturer a lot of money to do that. I'm very confident that the SSP-800 will be "right" when it ships.

Eric

[Kal Rubinson]

Classe is very aware that customers like you don't want to deal with a unit that isn't right out of the gate.

I know what you are saying but the wording of this portion strikes me as amusing. "Customers like you?" No customer wants to deal with something not right out of the gate or out of the box and Classe, like any other reasonably responsible company, would like to avoid that situation. Unfortunately, market pressures often drive them to market a bit prematurely.

Kal

[RebelMan]

No customer wants to deal with something not right out of the gate or out of the box and Classe, like any other reasonably responsible company, would like to avoid that situation. Unfortunately, market pressures often drive them to market a bit prematurely.

True but in the case of the SSP-800 the primary hold-up (now) has been with the DSP board for the advanced codecs. Because the board doesn't really exist in a tangible form that Classe' can use in manufacturing they had to design the upgradablity of the SSP-800 mostly around specifications. The tighter and more controlled the specifications are the more successful and the smoother the upgrade will be.

Classe' was hoping the board would be availble in time for the March announcement. Since it is unlikely that it will be ready they have chosen to move forward without it. But they will make an offical announcement regarding an upgrade when the SSP-800 is finally released.

[dmccombs]

Darrell,

Classe has had a couple of working SSP-900's at the factory for quite a while now, so I would be surprised if they have problems with the SSP-800. Classe is very aware that customers like you don't want to deal with a unit that isn't right out of the gate. They don't want to deal with having to replace units (like your experience with the Halcro preamp) either. It costs a manufacturer a lot of money to do that. I'm very confident that the SSP-800 will be "right" when it ships.

Eric

Surely, all companies would like to avoid swapping boxes, and I am sure Halcro wanted to avoid this as well. Are you suggesting that Classe waited to be 100%, where Halcro maybe rushed things a bit?

I'm sure Halcro had some working units before they did thier release, but HDMI, seems very hard for companies to implement.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I'm not sure how to differentiate betweens Halcro's HDMI release and Classe's, without just waiting for them to hit the market.

[dmccombs]

Well, I spoke with my nearest Dealer 60 miles away. He gave me an estimated date of April 15th, a decent price, and he is willing to loan me a higher end Denon Reciever with HDMI to hold me over since the Halcro needs to go back. Its a very nice offer when you consider the loaner.

I am soo torn. I was able to get the Halcro to pass HDMI audio, so I do have terrific sound right now. I just need to pass the video via compoment as the my specific Halcro unit won't pass the Audio and Video. This works for my Univeral player and Bluray player, but not my HD-DVD player (HD-A1). I could replace it with a new unit that does work in this configuration for a few hundred $$$ though.

Option 1: Live forever with the Halcro passing HDMI Audio, but not passing the HDMI video.
Option 2: Live with the Denon for 2.5 months (or more if dates slide), then get the SSP-800, and hope the HDMI works as hoped.
Option 3: Buy something now like a Lexicon 12HD, or an Anthem D2.
* The cost differences are negligible.

[RebelMan]

No brainer Darrell, Option 2 all the way. Your dealer is making this an easy choice for you, I applaud him for working with you. :T

[sikoniko]

Option 2!

[dmccombs]

Well, there is a third option... I am guessing you will still recommend Option 2.

Option 3: Buy something now like a Lexicon 12HD, or an Anthem D2.

Thanks,
Darrell

[RebelMan]

I heard the Anthem D2 with full a compliment of Paradigm Signature 2 speakers in an optimized configuration and environment as presented by the makers themselves. It was a very well executed demonstration that I thoroughly enjoyed but to be honest my "lowly" SSP-300 and B&W 800 Series system smoked it. I was expecting much more from a system of that caliber. It was good but not great, leaving much to be desired. The D2 isn't in the same league as the SSP-800.

I have heard some very good things about the Lexicon especially with Logic7 but I have no personal experience to draw from so I cannot comment one way or the other. Given that I would still place bets on the SSP-800. It is taking direct aim at every processor for any price in terms of sound quality but not creature features. So you'll have to ask yourself which of the two criterion do you value most?

[dmccombs]

Well, I just talked with my local dealer about the SSP-800 delivery date. His Classe Regional rep, originally had given him a date of 04/14, but a Senior VP at Classe told my delaer, it would be actually be early June.

With this news, I will need to pick up an interim solution, and revisit the the SSP-800 when it available.

Thanks for the help and comments. It does sound like it will be a nice piece when it arrives.

[Stormwatch]

lol...my 1069 is doing great, its a great "bridge" until the classe comes out. Have you had a chance to listen to the 1069 yet with lossless PCM via HDMI?

Dont worry I am totally in the camp of "1.1 is enough", and I will likely upgrade to the 800 in the spring. Really the only thing stopping me is wanting all of my equipment to match. Sounds dumb I know buts its important to me (and the wife). I really wish Classe would make a nice slim Classe D amp.


BTW...that is great news about the PS3!


***curiously how will the 800 perform with 2 ch stereo. I have a dedicated rotel 1072 which I am happy with. Will the 800 with the PS3 connected by HDMI do a better job then the rotel CD player going through the classe in bypass mode?

RCD-1072 will definitly do a better job than any kind of products like PS3 playing a CD. Audiophile CD players are highly specialised to do only one job. Concept, circuit layout, selected componets are keypoints for this, circuit topology is more sophisticated within a RCD-1072 than in a multiformat player (as far as audio sections are concerned).

Don't think that HDMI is in all cases a superior interface than SPDIF. 2 CH PCM can be conveyed either via SPDIF (coax digital out) or HDMI with a HD player. My experince was, that in many cases SPDIF connection sounded better than HDMI, however, using a high quality digital cable. SPDIF is a matured interface standard. HDMI is only necessary with multichannel PCM signals.

[RebelMan]

With this news, I will need to pick up an interim solution, and revisit the the SSP-800 when it available.

I thought your dealer was going to let you borrow the Denon for the interim until the SSP-800 came out. What happened?

[RebelMan]

RCD-1072 will definitly do a better job than any kind of products like PS3 playing a CD.

That depends on how the SSP receives the signal. Will it be digital or analog? Using either the RCD-1072 or the PS3 as a transport medium only will make no difference.

Vancouver, I have more to tell you regarding your question but I have been holding back until I could report back with answers to other questions that have been asked. I'll be posting an update with more information soon.

[Nolan B]

RCD-1072 will definitly do a better job than any kind of products like PS3 playing a CD. Audiophile CD players are highly specialised to do only one job. Concept, circuit layout, selected componets are keypoints for this, circuit topology is more sophisticated within a RCD-1072 than in a multiformat player (as far as audio sections are concerned).

Don't think that HDMI is in all cases a superior interface than SPDIF. 2 CH PCM can be conveyed either via SPDIF (coax digital out) or HDMI with a HD player. My experince was, that in many cases SPDIF connection sounded better than HDMI, however, using a high quality digital cable. SPDIF is a matured interface standard. HDMI is only necessary with multichannel PCM signals.

i think you are missing the point of my question. I know that the DACs in the 1072 are better then the DACs in the PS3. My point is would the SSP 800 do a better job with a digital signal form the 1072 the the 1072 would do outputing analog using its DACs.

HDMI, optical or coax between the 1072 and the ssp would all be the same obviously because its just a means ofa digital signal. I was not meaning in anyway that becaise of using HDMI it would somehow improve the quality.

[Nolan B]

Vancouver, I have more to tell you regarding your question but I have been holding back until I could report back with answers to other questions that have been asked. I'll be posting an update with more information soon.

:T looking forward to it.

[dmccombs]

I thought your dealer was going to let you borrow the Denon for the interim until the SSP-800 came out. What happened?

Rebelman,

We were ok with the Denon as a loaner for 2.5 months, but now that it is at least 4.5 months, we both agree that is a bit long.

I may get the SSP-800 later, but I need to pick up something in the interim in case Classe takes longer to get the SSP-800 out, and have the HDMI Audio working.

Darrell

[sikoniko]

i think you are missing the point of my question. I know that the DACs in the 1072 are better then the DACs in the PS3. My point is would the SSP 800 do a better job with a digital signal form the 1072 the the 1072 would do outputing analog using its DACs.

HDMI, optical or coax between the 1072 and the ssp would all be the same obviously because its just a means ofa digital signal. I was not meaning in anyway that becaise of using HDMI it would somehow improve the quality.

Nolan,

This is where I go round and round with James on...

The optical signal on the SSP will be steered towards the Multi-channel DSP and DAC's. While those DACs may be fantastic, there will be a compromise for 2 channel performance, whereas the DACs in the CDP are dedicated for 2 channel.

Now the reality of the answer is, noone will know until the unit is on the street and we can hear and judge for ourselves. Will the DACs in the SSP be that much better than the Rotel 2 channel DACs to compensate for 2 channel in a native multichannel functionality they are designed for. Because it is Classe, I can guess that you will get more of a signature Classe sound by using it in this way. I just don't believe there are 2 channel DACs in the SSP. Only an analog bi-pass via balanced connection will a cdp be fully optimized.

The SSP-900 did have 2 channel DACs to play transports from my understanding though...

[Kal Rubinson]

The optical signal on the SSP will be steered towards the Multi-channel DSP and DAC's. While those DACs may be fantastic, there will be a compromise for 2 channel performance, whereas the DACs in the CDP are dedicated for 2 channel.

Dedication to 2channels only means that there are 2. Surely, it is the type of DAC and its implementation, not the number, that is relevant.

Kal

[RebelMan]

Dedication to 2channels only means that there are 2. Surely, it is the type of DAC and its implementation, not the number, that is relevant.

This is why Dan and I go round and round. Tag you're it Kal. LOL

[sikoniko]

Dedication to 2channels only means that there are 2. Surely, it is the type of DAC and its implementation, not the number, that is relevant.

Kal

I'm not above saying I'm wrong, but educate me please.

I draw my understanding from a comment James Tanner said. Maybe I am reading it out of context.

IF you use the optical out from a CDP, is it not effectively acting as a transport?

Here is my post from 2006:

I've seen where the DAC chip can be had for under $1, so how much does it really raise the price to include a DAC and how much of it is just price of the brand (understanding from my marketing classes that this is not necessarily a bad thing)?

Id be interested in a CD transport only and use the DACs in my SP2. Would that significantly drop the price? If it costs $2500 for one w/ a DAC, could it be reasonable to say that without it would be $1500 +/-?

without trying to diminish the value of bryston by underselling it, am I incorrect in thinking that its the higher quality DAC that drives the price/demand, even though material cost is insignificant? That would be where the true performance is would it not?

Im interested in knowing what factors determine the price, if you would be that open with us? I realize that dealer cost is generally around 50% of retail, so there is some of it, but how much is materials/r&d recoup/marketing/profit?

and a couple posts later, the response I got was:

James has already addressed the fact that the DACs in the pre/pro are not optimized for 2-channel music. In my opinion, it would be a waste to buy a CD transport to use with a SP 1.7 or SP2. I'd agree with James totally that the analog output stage of the DAC is extremely important. I just reconfigured my system and I am using a Marantz DV9600 universal player along with a Micromega Duo Pro DAC. The DAC is 10+ yrs. old and people are still amazed by it. Yes it did list for $2.5k-3k in its day. I was lucky to pick it up for a trade of stuff that was worth a couple of hundred at most and stuff that was not of use to me.

Would this not apply to the SSP-800 and a CDP acting as a CDT?

If not, please explain the difference.

[Nolan B]

Nolan,

This is where I go round and round with James on...

The optical signal on the SSP will be steered towards the Multi-channel DSP and DAC's. While those DACs may be fantastic, there will be a compromise for 2 channel performance, whereas the DACs in the CDP are dedicated for 2 channel.

Now the reality of the answer is, noone will know until the unit is on the street and we can hear and judge for ourselves. Will the DACs in the SSP be that much better than the Rotel 2 channel DACs to compensate for 2 channel in a native multichannel functionality they are designed for. Because it is Classe, I can guess that you will get more of a signature Classe sound by using it in this way. I just don't believe there are 2 channel DACs in the SSP. Only an analog bi-pass via balanced connection will a cdp be fully optimized.

The SSP-900 did have 2 channel DACs to play transports from my understanding though...

There has to be more to it. Using Rotel as an esxample because its a test I have done before with clear results. As far as I can tell the RSP 1069 and the RCD 1072 use the same DACs (see below). There is a noticable difference however when using the analog ouput on the 1072 then using the Coax to the SSP.

To make things more confusing I borrowed a RC 1070 one time and found the "bypass" on the 1070 to be better then the "bypass" on the 1068 which I had at the time.

They way you word your post however is a question I have really wanted to know the answer to...from a clear scientific point of view.


Can someone confirm if these two DACs are the same?

RSP 1069 - Burr Brown 24 bit/192kHz DACs
RCD 1072 - Burr Brown 1732 D/A converter

[RebelMan]

Dan,

I think some generalities are being assumed in the examples that you have provided which may be contributing to your misunderstanding.

In general it is true that the circuit boards of a dedicated CD player can be better at processing digital signals than the circuit topologies of a multi-function surround sound processor would be. Component choices for digital filters, DACs and Op-Amps and their implementation can vary greatly between them thus potentially affecting the outcome very differently.

However, this is not always the case. Some CD players are cheaply made and some processors are over the top. It doesn’t matter which channel or channels the circuits have been designed for. It only matters that they are designed to perform optimally whether it be in the CD player or the processor.

Vancouver asks a very legitimate question when speaking about the RCD-1072 and PS3 on how to achieve optimal playback through the SSP-800. To gauge the caliber of the SSP’s digital processing he wants to know if the SSP-800 can perform equal to or better in the digital domain than the RCD-1072 would in the analog domain. Unfortunately, the answer is not so straight forward because the variances in circuit topologies are not immediately conclusive, some listening is required.

In an attempt to glean Classe’s recommendation I paraphrased Vancouver’s question to include the whole gamut of high performance CD players. The answer that I got was not so clear cut, but I expected that; as I stated there are a number of variables at work. Specifically I was told if something on the level of a CDP-202 were used then the analog outputs may be preferred. I also asked the opposite question of lesser players like the PS3. The answer here was more direct. The SSP-800 has a much better chance to recover a marginal digital signal than it could faithfully render a marginal analog signal.

So where does that put the RCD-1072? Well, based on my experience as a previous owner I would say smack dab in the middle. I compared my RCD-1072 with the CDP-202 and preferred the latter by a good margin but the RCD-1072 ran a good race. Therefore, if the SSP-800 is closer in performance to the CDP-202 I would suggest the use of the SSP-800’s for the digital to analog conversion otherwise the RCD-1072 for it’s analog outputs. If the former is true then the digital output of an PS3 would sound better than the analog output of an RCD-1072.

[Kal Rubinson]

Exactly. Anyone can say something is optimized for two channel but what does that mean? I think it implies that the two channel implementation is better specified and tweaked but there is no reason, aside from cost, that one cannot do any number of channels as well. So, having separate 2channel DAC outputs implies they are optimized in some way but is no assurance. Similarly, having 6-8 DAC channels implies nothing, a priori.

So, as Rebelman says, it is is issue of making generalizations from specific examples that I was noting.

[hifiguymi]

I know what you are saying but the wording of this portion strikes me as amusing. "Customers like you?" No customer wants to deal with something not right out of the gate or out of the box and Classe, like any other reasonably responsible company, would like to avoid that situation. Unfortunately, market pressures often drive them to market a bit prematurely.

Kal

What I meant by the "customers like you" statement was the early adopter. There are way to many companies that ship units before they are ready and let customers be the beta testers. They feel a lot of pressure to get a new product into the marketplace (and the internet has made it worse) that they rush to market. I'm glad Classe wants to take their time and make it right.

Eric

[sikoniko]

btw, interesting discussion developing on avs as well:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=982277

here is my reply to that thread... and then I don't want to discuss classe vs. another brand again... either you like it or you don't. I should have been smarter and not commented on that thread.

The classe proc was never correctly represented and information was skewed toward the denon to begin with. key details were left out of classe's specs to justify the purchase of the denon over the classe from the first post IMO.

there are so many different brands to accomodate many different people. classe isn't going to be for everyone, and neither is denon.

I don't have to justify why I prefer classe, and noone should have to justify why they prefer brand x, y or z. It has nothing to do with where it is made. there are numerous reasons why people prefer brand x to brand y and they only have to justify that to themselves and their spouse.

my recommendation is to buy the denon and get the features you want... the classe isn't for you. if you have to be convinced to buy something, its not the right product. Otherwise, wait until they both come out, give each a demo and choose which one you like best.

I bow out of this thread.

[ssabripo]

here is my reply to that thread... and then I don't want to discuss classe vs. another brand again... either you like it or you don't. I should have been smarter and not commented on that thread.

what information was presented incorrectly? what exactly is your point here?

Rebelman and others have been tremendously helpful in adding great information and giving thoughtful insight into the pros' and cons' of the classe, as well as its strengths against others.... maybe you should take a page out of their book

[sikoniko]

what information was presented incorrectly? what exactly is your point here?

Rebelman and others have been tremendously helpful in adding great information and giving thoughtful insight into the pros' and cons' of the classe, as well as its strengths against others.... maybe you should take a page out of their book

my point is, that i think it is pointless to get into subjective arguements, and I have learned the lesson.

I can only re-iterate facts that are given to me by Rebelman, as he has the contact. then apply my general knowledge and experience. Rebelman and I go round-and-round on things. Often times his experience, and engineering background give him more to stand on, but that doesn't mean we don't value each others opinions, and agree to disagree at times.

Everyone has a list of gotta-haves and nice-to-haves. My list won't be like everyone elses, and I accept that. I simply state what attracts me to a product. my post was an attempt to be unbiased, and geared relatively neutral toward anyone saying "is brand x better than brand y?"

I do feel that your post on AVS was slanted more towards the Denon, based on your priority of having DTSMA, and that you wanted to be convinced that the classe could be as good as the denon. I also feel that the target audience of AVS is not geared toward people who are likely familiar with classe. I don't even have a local dealer. I would guess a very small percentage of people have heard the product line; whereas, a large percentage are familiar and happy with denon as it caters to a larger volume of people. I don't want to go round-and-round with you on it, and I don't care to change your opinion. It is the way I perceive what you wrote.

I bought a yamaha 992 when DD first came out, and this was my first receiver that had DD internal. I had traded up from having a 990 and the external decoder. This receiver did not have dts decoding internal to it. It was a year later before that came out. It was 5 years before I bought a receiver that had DTS.

with all things being equal, I can live a year or even 2 for classe to come out with the processing in the ssp, if I end up needing it at all. its a nice-to-have for me. Rebelman is doing some fact-finding on some of your concerns, and hopefully he will be able to enlighten us with that information.

I don't know what "page" I could take out of Rebelman's book in your opinion, but to be quite honest, I don't really care. I am what I am.

[Nolan B]

Rebelman

Curious...do you know if the ssp 800 will be able to apply processing to hi rez PCM? i.e. apply PLIIx to 5.1 in order to make it 7.1? The rotel was said to be abe to do this, but it can not.

[RebelMan]

I will confirm but it was my understanding the inclusion of DPLIIx on the SSP-800 was meant to supplant the loss of the THX post processing feature included on earlier SSPs so that 5.1 soundtracks can play into 7.1 systems.

[kloepfr]

Dou you know if Classe will launch the SSP800 first in Canada/USA or will it be a world wide sales start?
Mid of March I am a week in Vancouver and I am keen to get one of these nice pieces, but maybe to early?

[skuzzyb]

Dou you know if Classe will launch the SSP800 first in Canada/USA or will it be a world wide sales start?
Mid of March I am a week in Vancouver and I am keen to get one of these nice pieces, but maybe to early?

Kloepfr, given you are in Germany (I think) even if you pick up a piece in Vancouver you would be handicapped by a unit that is a 110/120V 60 HZ unit versus a 220/240V 50 HZ unit. The actual voltage setting is usually done at the factory and not something that is done in the field. If you do end up making the changes in the field, or use a step-up transformer and something goes wrong, well, there goes your warranty. I think us in 220/240V land are all waiting patiently for it to come our way.

SKZ

[moonlightdrive21]

Is there any chance they might offer a trade up program for people that have the SSP600 and want to upgrade?

Thanks!

[Suresh T]

As an avid Audiophile/Videophile, I would like to see Blu-Ray players to read the medium as best as possible, retrieve the data and perform MPEG function. Beyond this, it would be ideal for the player to transmit HD-SDI signal and audio as bit stream via HDMI to external processor(s). The HD-SDI could be sent to an external scaler if present. The HDMI signal sent to a processor could decode any audio signal using the appropriate codec.

The advantage of this setup is that the processor can be upgraded (if designed as such) as new standards are established. The perspective is that the Blu-Ray player is used only as a transport and allow the processor to do the rest. This is exactly how most serious enthusiasts like to setup. There is no reason to pay for decoding (sometimes subpar) in both the player and the processor.

The point Rebelman makes (earlier in this thread) about the perspective of the studios to have the decoding in the player only is interesting. I don't see why they should dictate this.

Anyway, thanks for reading my post. We all have our thoughts!

[hifiguymi]

The point that RebelMan was making refers to special features. If you engage any of the special features on a Profile 1.1 or 2.0 BD player the decoding has to be done in the player. There are second video and audio decoders for those features and the decoding of the main signal has to happen in the player before the features are mixed in. I don't think studios will dictate that be done but you never know.

It remains to be seen (for me at least) if there is a performance difference between having the player decode the audio bitstream or having it done down stream. I'll know very soon because I have a couple of Denon DVD-3800BDCI BD players on the way to me and I'll be able to do a direct comparison with one of their top receivers that has the same decoder.

Eric

[Suresh T]

Thanks Eric! Please let us know your findings.

BTW, that is a good point on the BD Profile. I should clarify that I am mainly interested in the audio decoding. I am not knowledgable enough about the profile stuff, i.e. how much of decoding is needed, etc. If I am not mistaken, there is some Java code that is involved. I will be doing more research on this.:-)