Club Classe

[Gump]

Gump, whichever direction you go it sounds like you are looking at great equipment. The 5200 really is a huge beast. It is so long that I could not fit it into my entertainment center. I really was forced to use a 3200 and a 2100 or 2200 for my system.


The looks are definitely where you love em or hate em.. I guess this is the reason why my dealer in the midwest says Classe doesnt sell there. His clients tend to prefer the looks of McIntosh..

I love the Classe Delta look and sound.

Happy hunting gump!!
Stew

Thanks, Stew.

[RebelMan]

Hey Gump, my equipment space includes a top shelf five feet off the ground too. I was also looking at the CA-5200 as an upgrade option but the size and weight of that beast was intimidating and I was reluctant to put that much mass above my head for the same reasons that you cited. I instead decided to make some drastic changes to accommodate a lower installation. I decided to replace my RPTV with a plasma display (on order) and install an equipment rack to house the amplifiers and support the display. I also chose to supplant the 5200 with the 2200 and 3200 or get two monos and the 3200 or a 5100. Both solutions were more expensive and they would take up more space but they are easier to manage and I had other things to consider like what speakers to get next. Maybe a setup like Stew's (3200 and 2100) would be more conducive to your environment?

Like Stew I love the Classe' look and sound too. What was your wife’s initial reaction to the B&W's? Maybe you could convince her that the team that designed the 800 series also designed the Classe' Delta series and that they were made to work together esthetically, as well as acoustically. She may still balk at that proposition but then again she may understand it too.

[Gump]

All good ideas RebelMan....but as usual there are complications.

I installed the speaker wire in the wall during the home's construction. It constricts me to keep the electronics in the niche over the TV. It would be difficult to run new wire outside the wall due to a fireplace issue. One day I'll take a PC class and figure out how to post pictures and it will be easier to explain.

The CA-5200 will fit up there but I think it would bother me that I wouldn't be able to move it around without a "team" of helpers. I guess I could pay for the store to install it and then just leave it there. Even if I got other electronics there shouldn't be a need to move the amp if I kept the same interconnects. I suppose it's do-able. I love the Classe sound too much to completely give up the idea without a struggle.

My wife threw a couple of shots at me about the "goofy microphone-looking things" on top of my B&W's when I first got them, but overall she's accepted them ok. She has a healthy dose of skeptism about this whole hobby----especially the expense. But she generally lets me do my thing with just the occasional eye rolling.
I think the main thing that disturbed her about the Classe was the color. That light colored brushed aluminum really stood out and caught your eye against the darker colors of the rest of the system. It was distracting. Maybe something we'd get used to eventually. Another idea would be to put a wood frame around the niche and install doors with black breathable cloth to cover up the electronics.
I like the Classe look too, but I'm still surprised they don't offer an all black model due to it's history of popularity....even B&W offer black speaker models.

I already discussd the B&W/Classe simpatico compatability thing with her and she understands. She's just grumbling a little bit...it's a ritual we have when she knows I'm getting ready to drop a mind-numbing amount of money on a hobby she doesn't completely get.
None of these obstacles are beyond overcoming, but the far easier route would be to succumb to my Stereo Svengali and get the smaller, easier to deal with, blacker Linn EQ.

But ultimately, as you know, it's all about the sound.....I don't want any regrets.

[sikoniko]

out of curiosity, has anyone compared the ca-3200 vs the cam-400? My rack is in the back of the room, and I ran balanced cables to the front area. I could easily accomodate a 3200 for my l/c/r (N802 & Nhtm1). I would like to consider a pair of cam400's, but just dont think I have the space to accomodate them, and then what would I do for my center channel. would i be happy w/ the 3200 or would I wish I got the cam400? I noticed Kal seemed to like the 3200 for the 802d.

btw, the ssp900 will retail for around 16$k.

[grit]

Just in case anyone didn't look:

The 5200 is 21" deep. The 3200, 2200, and 5100 are only 18.5" deep.

So, if one has a 3-ch amp and a 2-ch amp on a system that is used both for 2-ch music and 5-ch applications, how do you hook up the speakers? Front 2 on the 2-ch amp and the center/rears on the 3-ch amp OR front 3 speakers on the 3-ch and 2 rear speakers on the 2-ch?

[Andrew M Ward]

Perhaps, I didn't explain myself fully to the tech 8O . This is good, but wouldn't I still have to use two volume controls if your using 2 separate amps in a configuration: say amp1 for center and rears and amp 2 for front with it's own pre-amp

I believe all you need to do is simply title any input "SSP" and it becomes a unity gain input... when such an input is selected, the volume control of the Classe' 2-channel preamplifier is disabled, all outputs are driven at line level.

This is useful is situations where the Classe' 2-channel preamplifier is being used to pass a signal coming from a component with it's own volume control (such as a surroundsound processor) ....

[photoman]

Anyone know anything about the SSP-900? Other then what one can dig up on the web. It appears the 900 was debuted in 04' but never saw the light of day (yet). According to a HT magazine review, it is supposed to be coming out.

[sikoniko]

I heard late this summer from classe.

[photoman]

I heard late this summer from classe.

Thanks, that's what I kinda figured. Looks like they were waiting for HDMI 1.3 to be finished before releasing it. From what I know the 900 will have HDMI switching.

[sikoniko]

Thanks, that's what I kinda figured. Looks like they were waiting for HDMI 1.3 to be finished before releasing it. From what I know the 900 will have HDMI switching.

I believe thats what the shop in boston i visited said. For that price, though, i dont expect too many people to be chosing it. it will have to compete with lexicon, which is the cadillac of HT processors.

I really like the classe sound, but I still have a problem with their hdmi solution for the ssp300 and 600. i may start buying amps and cdp, but ill hold off on an ssp.

[RebelMan]

out of curiosity, has anyone compared the ca-3200 vs the cam-400?

The CA-2200, CA-3200 and CA-5200 will all sound identical. I didn't conduct any direct A/B comparisons with the CA-3200 but I indirectly compared the CA-2200 with the CA-M400's on two separate occasions; each drove a pair of 802D's in the same room just at different times. From what I recall (take that with a grain of salt if you will) the CA-M400 had, what seemed, much better control of the bass drivers and low level listening was more fullfilling. I didn't notice this with the CA-2200 nearly to the same extent.

[Andrew M Ward]

I believe thats what the shop in boston i visited said. For that price, though, i dont expect too many people to be chosing it. it will have to compete with lexicon, which is the cadillac of HT processors.

I really like the classe sound, but I still have a problem with their hdmi solution for the ssp300 and 600. i may start buying amps and cdp, but ill hold off on an ssp.

Interesting,
I've had several individuals I know very well replace their MC-12 v3 Lexicon's with the SSP-600 based completely on sound quality...(my brother being one of them) said the SSP-600 was a much better sounding processor, but he would miss the L7 mix - but nothing else - if that's the case I can't even imagine the SSP-900 having trouble with the 5 year old board topology of the MC-12, which does not have an HDMI solution either (that i've seen)

[shep]

Was thinking of moving up to the B&W 803s, and wonder if the CA-2200 will be suitable. Since I am running Rotel rb-1090 with my 804s, I am sure that I will see a big improvement, but wondering if I should be shooting for even more power on the amp side to drive the 803s.

[RebelMan]

Interesting,
I've had several individuals I know very well replace their MC-12 v3 Lexicon's with the SSP-600 based completely on sound quality...(my brother being one of them) said the SSP-600 was a much better sounding processor, but he would miss the L7 mix...

If only the 300 and 600 SSP's supported PLIIx then the L7 feature set of the MC-12 would be moot. HDMI switching would have been a nice perk too but it's not something that I can't live without. The sound quality of the SSP's is THE primary reason I am willing to buy into its relatively dated technology.

[RebelMan]

Was thinking of moving up to the B&W 803s, and wonder if the CA-2200 will be suitable. Since I am running Rotel rb-1090 with my 804s, I am sure that I will see a big improvement, but wondering if I should be shooting for even more power on the amp side to drive the 803s.

When it comes to amplifiers more power is generally better but not always, the quality of that power is equally important. Given that the CA-2200 delivers "only" 200wpc into 8 ohms it would appear at first glance that the RB-1090's 380 watts would be better. I have heard the RB-1090 and the CA-2200 side-by-side and both had the authority and power to drive the 803S's that I demoed. However, the CA-2200 possessed finer detail, delivered smoother response and was more involving than the RB-1090 was. Both are very nice amplifiers and for the money the RB-1090 is a better buy, but if sound quality is paramount to you, then the CA-2200 should get your vote.

[RebelMan]

My wife threw a couple of shots at me about the "goofy microphone-looking things" on top of my B&W's when I first got them, but overall she's accepted them ok. She has a healthy dose of skeptism about this whole hobby----especially the expense. But she generally lets me do my thing with just the occasional eye rolling.
...
I already discussd the B&W/Classe simpatico compatability thing with her and she understands. She's just grumbling a little bit...it's a ritual we have when she knows I'm getting ready to drop a mind-numbing amount of money on a hobby she doesn't completely get.

Gump, I think it would be a good idea that we keep our wives apart. Heaven help us if they ever got together to talk about a hobby that neither seems (or may ever) get. I have found that the best way to deal with my wife on the needs of this hobby is to shower her with jewelry, lots and lots of jewelry which frankly is something that I don't get! :P

[Myurr]

I'm about to take the plunge on a CDP-202, and would like to ask a couple of questions to current owners / users:

1: I will be using it exclusively for standard Redbook cd playback. Is the mechanism quick to read a CD and navigate through its tracks?
2: Is the mechanism silent during playback? I have had the problem of noisy CD players in the past, and it is very distracting while listening.

Unfortunately I have no way to demo the player unless I jump on a plane and fly a few thousand miles.

[sikoniko]

If only the 300 and 600 SSP's supported PLIIx then the L7 feature set of the MC-12 would be moot. HDMI switching would have been a nice perk too but it's not something that I can't live without. The sound quality of the SSP's is THE primary reason I am willing to buy into its relatively dated technology.

I asked Classe about this PLIIx and they said they felt the THX did the same thing and PLIIx was redundant.

[RebelMan]

I asked Classe about this PLIIx and they said they felt the THX did the same thing and PLIIx was redundant.

The THX Ultra 2 post processing feature set found in the 300 and 600 SSP's is only "fully" supported by 7.1 setups. Since I currently use a 5.1 setup (and I listen to two channel stereo only) neither the loss of DPLIIx support or the inablity to utilize THX's Advanced Speaker Array (ASA) protocol for music or cinema is of any conseqence to me (at this time).

THX ASA is limited to multichannel processing only and thus employs a very different steering algorithm from DPLIIx and L7. DPLIIx can mix any 2.0 or 5.1 soundtrack into a 6.1 or 7.1 system. THX ASA requires a 5.1 soundtrack at minimum to create a 7.1 (only) system. You can think of the two codecs like this... DPLIIx creates additional channels from other channels, THX ASA creates an "environment" from all channels. They are very different DSP philosophies.

[alebonau]

I asked Classe about this PLIIx and they said they felt the THX did the same thing and PLIIx was redundant.

Having lived with L7 processing for the last year not sure I could live without it. PLIIx pfft..doesn't even compare.

Are classe ssp that much better than mid priced avrs for HT processing to justify their cost ?. I'm not sure about that.

If you do buy a ssp, I'd suggest holding off till atleast they have processing onboard for the new surround formats DTS-HD, DDplus and Dolby trueHD. and also given v1.3 HDMI has already been announced, that would be a must as well I'd think to take full advantage of the new HD formats. Otherwise you face the risk of having an expensive pre-pro that not too long down the track lacks the processing and connectivity of entry level receivers.

[RebelMan]

L7 equipped devices from Lexicon are far from mid-priced. If L7 was sooooo much better than DPLIIx then there really is no need for Lexicon to include it in their processors, yet they continue to add support for this feature, the RV-8 being one of the latest products to receive it. Maybe Lexicon realized most of its customers see more benefit in DPLIIx enabled systems? Maybe Lexicon needed a better marketing tool than L7 could provide? Maybe Lexicon was losing market share to DPLIIx rivals? The point is it's in there and for a very good reason I am sure.

The logic behind asking if Classe's SSP's are price justified can be applied to any piece of high-end equipment. This I am sure about.

All of Classe's SSP's will support ALL high-definition audio formats. What you loose by not including HDMI in the 300 and 600 SSPs (the 900 SSP supports HDMI) is the convenience of using fewer cables and the bass managment capablilites of the SSP, nothing more, but this is of no real circumstance. Neither high-definition formats (HD-DVD or BD) are fully utilizing the improved DD+, DTHD or DTS-HDMA codecs to make any differences in audio anyway (in some cases they sound worse than DD or DTS) and it will be quite some time before they do and thus make HDMI more beneficial. Until then, DD and DTS bitstreams or LPCM over S/PDIF coax will sound better going through a Classe' SSP than they would any mid-priced AVR.

[sikoniko]

All of Classe's SSP's will support ALL high-definition audio formats. What you loose by not including HDMI in the 300 and 600 SSPs (the 900 SSP supports HDMI) is the convenience of using fewer cables and the bass managment capablilites of the SSP, nothing more, but this is of no real circumstance. Neither high-definition formats (HD-DVD or BD) are fully utilizing the improved DD+, DTHD or DTS-HDMA codecs to make any differences in audio anyway (in some cases they sound worse than DD or DTS) and it will be quite some time before they do and thus make HDMI more beneficial. Until then, DD and DTS bitstreams or LPCM over S/PDIF coax will sound better going through a Classe' SSP than they would any mid-priced AVR.

You also lose the multichannel analog ports. so if you are a fan of multichannel audio, you have to make a choice.

I only have seen 2 HDDVD titles, POTO and Doom. I can easily say the DD+ on those two titles is better than anything I've heard on DD(EX) or DTS(ES).

[RebelMan]

I only have seen 2 HDDVD titles, POTO and Doom. I can easily say the DD+ on those two titles is better than anything I've heard on DD(EX) or DTS(ES).

How did you compare the HD version of Doom to the SD version?

[Ian D]

Hi Guys
I have an SSP 300 and am trying to download the new upgrade from the Classe web page Link below, trouble is I get to about 70% and the server shuts down on me. I've tried this on a dial up and a diginet line and still have the same problems. Has anyone sucsesfully downloaded this file from Classe?

File is here : http://www.classeaudio.com/downloads...7_Complete.pkg

Cheers Ian

[grit]

I was able to D/L the whole thing w/o any problem. it's probably too big for an e-mail attachment (5+MB) or I'd just e-mail it to ya.

[Ian D]

Thanks Garrett I'll try and download it again
I think 5mb is far to big for an e-mail attach but thanks anyway.

[Andrew M Ward]

I'm about to take the plunge on a CDP-202, and would like to ask a couple of questions to current owners / users:

1: I will be using it exclusively for standard Redbook cd playback. Is the mechanism quick to read a CD and navigate through its tracks?
2: Is the mechanism silent during playback? I have had the problem of noisy CD players in the past, and it is very distracting while listening.

Unfortunately I have no way to demo the player unless I jump on a plane and fly a few thousand miles.

Q:1 = A: Not quick like a redbook only drive on the initial inset of the disc, about 9 to 12 seconds to spin the disc up and read all the appropriate flags and pids and so forth, after that it's just like any CD player

Q2: = A2: Silent

[stewfoo]

CDP-300 vs cdp-300V

Andrew Ward,
I am in the process of ordering a cdp-300. Whats the deal with the cdp-300V. What's the availability and is it worth getting over the standard cdp 300?

I have just set up a control4 system and was wondering how I could incorporate this device into whole house audio as well as my main ht/2ch room. Typically they use the analog outs from a source for the C4 and the digital outs got to the processor. However, with the ssp-300 wouldnt I be losing the benefit of superior dacs in the cdp-300? would a "Y" splitter make sense or is that a horrible Idea??

Have you heard of anyone using C4 and Classe together with 2 way serial drivers?

Thanks for your help

[RebelMan]

Stewfoo, while it could be debated wether any detail would be lost, I would avoid the use of a Y-splitter if for no other reason then flexibility. The SSP-300 provides more control over bass management than the CDP-300 does and you gain the benefit of THX post processing.

I believe the three Crystal DSPs and DACs in the CDP are more powerful than Motorola's 32-bit processors and DACs in the SSP at rendering 2-channel audio but I don't think any differences will be noticeably audible in multi-channel soundtrack playback (sans SACD and DVD-A) plus you would loose the benefits I mentioned above with the CDP's 5.1 analog outputs.

[Audiophiliac]

We just got our Classe gear for our new demo theater that is to be finished this summer. 2 Omega Microns, a CA5200, SSP600, CDP300. Should go well with the Wilson Maxx II, Watch center and surrounds (x4), and the new passive Watch Dog sub.....not sure what we will amp that with.

I will be sure to post pics of the completed room.

[grit]

-----^
<< drool >>

[Joey_V]

We just got our Classe gear for our new demo theater that is to be finished this summer. 2 Omega Microns, a CA5200, SSP600, CDP300. Should go well with the Wilson Maxx II, Watch center and surrounds (x4), and the new passive Watch Dog sub.....not sure what we will amp that with.

I will be sure to post pics of the completed room.

Geez...

So... in other news, have you decided on your speakers yet?

[Audiophiliac]

No.

I am working now on making a "permanent" install in my VW. Something I have been putting off for a long long time. I have a ton of really rare old school Phoenix Gold limited edition stuff waiting to go in there.

Then I will start looking for a house. And once I find one, the fun begins. I cant wait.

[Andrew M Ward]

Andrew Ward,
I am in the process of ordering a cdp-300. Whats the deal with the cdp-300V. What's the availability and is it worth getting over the standard cdp 300?

I have just set up a control4 system and was wondering how I could incorporate this device into whole house audio as well as my main ht/2ch room. Typically they use the analog outs from a source for the C4 and the digital outs got to the processor. However, with the ssp-300 wouldnt I be losing the benefit of superior dacs in the cdp-300? would a "Y" splitter make sense or is that a horrible Idea??

Have you heard of anyone using C4 and Classe together with 2 way serial drivers?

Thanks for your help

The CDP-300 when used as an analog 2-channel audio source is superior to what the SSP-300 will give you in 2-channel analog... Hence it's (CDP-300) cost, it has a fully seperated analog audio board with seperate audio clock, so it's a world class CD player (very nice)

once you go digi-out you're okay to go anywhere into anything (IMHO) with about the same results...

[stewfoo]

once you go digi-out you're okay to go anywhere into anything (IMHO) with about the same results...

Can you please explain this... I am sorry... My brain is not fully working right now .. I was in the 110 degree heat working on the yard.


The problem is that my audio matrix only takes analog inputs. I guess the only thing that I can do is have the programmer make it so that the second zone of the ssp is used when we use that source...

[Andrew M Ward]

Can you please explain this... I am sorry... My brain is not fully working right now .. I was in the 110 degree heat working on the yard.


The problem is that my audio matrix only takes analog inputs. I guess the only thing that I can do is have the programmer make it so that the second zone of the ssp is used when we use that source...

Stewfoo,
I don't know how you're going to manage your audio distribution... can't reallyhelp you there...

But: When using the CDP-300 as a playback device it can deliver audio in two ways, analog and digital.

A: For high quality 2-channel listening (or DVD-A) it is advised to use the analog outs

B: For surround (Movies) you would use the digital outs

C: for home distribution running through switching and so forth, I can't imagine it would really matter what you did because thats a whole different ball game. That tends to be more about sound convienince more so that sound quality, although I'm sure it will work great... Whatever you and your qualified istaller decide to do...

[stewfoo]

You are right. With ccm80 in-ceilings on 12 ft ceilings you will probably not notice too much of a difference. I will keep the Rotel 1072 for whole house cd playback...

[RebelMan]

The problem is that my audio matrix only takes analog inputs. I guess the only thing that I can do is have the programmer make it so that the second zone of the ssp is used when we use that source...

stewfoo, you can have your cake and eat it too. This is what you can do...

1. Use one of the digital outputs, say the Toslink connection, from the CDP-300 and connect it to the Toslink input on your SSP-300. Configure the "zone" source with the Toslink digital input and label it as say "CD-Digital Input". Connect the "zone" analog (RCA) outputs to the C4. This solution uses the DAC's in your SSP for CD playback.

2. Use one of the remaining digital outputs, say the coaxial connection, from the CDP-300 and connect it to the digital coaxial input on your SSP-300. Configure a "main" input source with the digital coaxial input and label it as say "DVD". The "main" analog (RCA) outputs should already be connected to the amplifiers. This solution uses the DSPs and DACs in your SSP for DVD playback.

3. Connect the L and R analog outputs from the CDP-300 to the L and R 7.1 analog inputs on your SSP-300. Configure another "main" input source with the 7.1 analog inputs and label it as say "CD-Analog Input". The main analog (RCA) outputs should already be connected to the amplifiers. This solution uses the DACs in the CDP for the ULTIMATE in CD playback.

Don't give up just yet! :P

[stewfoo]

James,
Great minds think alike. I tried using the ssp-300 second zone and I couldnt get it to work. Now after using that configuration it will take loads of programming to get it done. I think it may complicate things because the serial driver has to be built from scratch for my control4. Classe is much rarer than I thought. So, it cant be found in any database for drivers. Also, it is unlikely that C4 will build a two-way driver for it anytime soon.

[Andrew M Ward]

Cap-2100

Do any of you Classe' useres have any experience with the CAP-2100 integrated?

If so I'm interested in your thoughts...

http://www.classeaudio.com/delta/detail-cap-2100.htm

[JerryB]

I am new to setting up a zone 2 with my SSP300 to a pair of B&W outdoor speakers. I have not yet purchased the speakers. The SSP300 manual gives very litttle info on the best way to set up a zone2. Am I correct in connecting the zone outputs on the SSP300 to the inputs on an amplifier and connect the speakers to the amp? And how would I program the SSP300 zone 2 speakers.

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks

[stewfoo]

Jerry,
That is what the manual says to do. The volume is not supposed to be controlled by the knob, but by the tft display. I could not get mine to work. But, I only tried it for a few minutes.

[RebelMan]

On the cover of stereophile's August issue is a CDP-202 with a review by John Atkinson inside. He made a comparison of it to his reference player, the Ayre C-5xe. He stated that both players sounded extremely similar, which I also found to be the case in an earlier post. He mentioned the Canadian player had slightly more top-octave air and concluded that the CDP-202 very slightly emphasized the leading edges and the C-5xe very slightly the body of sounds, which is not unlike the comments I made about the "CDP-202 to be slightly more refined and polished while the C-5xe was slightly punchier."

[grit]

Rebel, any comments on how the CDP-202 compares to the Classe CDP-102 (I have no idea what the differences are there) and the CDP-300? I'm trying to determine if I can get away with a pseudo-universal player. I'm only concerned about 2-ch analog CD and watching DVDs. Not interested in DVD-A or SACD.

[stewfoo]

From what Andrew Ward says, the CDP-300 is phenomenal in all of these areas. Mine just arrived at the dealer's today. I know now that I will be chasing the picture quality of the player with a new TV. When the 50" 1080p plasmas drop in price a bit, I will make my move.

I can't wait.

Any news on the process of converting the cdp-300 to the cdp300v?

Rebel, any comments on how the CDP-202 compares to the Classe CDP-102 (I have no idea what the differences are there) and the CDP-300? I'm trying to determine if I can get away with a pseudo-universal player. I'm only concerned about 2-ch analog CD and watching DVDs. Not interested in DVD-A or SACD.