Club Classe

[RobP]

After many request I am proud to announce the official opening of Club Classé!

Come on in,sit down,order a drink,and chat about everything Classé related. 8)

[RebelMan]

Finally, a place where all things Classe' can be had. Way to go SG. :T

[grit]

Whoo-hoo! Glad to see it!

[grit]

Has anyone compared Classe's CD players (or DVD players) to other brands (Ayre, Arcam, etc) with respect to 2-ch music? I'd love to get some opinions. I curerntly have a separate CD and DVD player (Rotel). I was wondering when I upgrade (intending to go Classe), will I still need a separate CD player to get better quality 2-ch music?

[photoman]

Great, after listening to a CA2200 / SSP600 CDP300 on B&W 803D I've decided on getting some Classe stuff. I'm sure this is going to be a place I'll have a few questions for. Oh and the sound, it was exquisite, the best I've ever heard on B&W speakers. Enough so where I'd like to integrate some of that gear into my current setup. Crap I don't believe I just said that...

[stewfoo]

photoman, going from Rotel to Classe was an unbelievable leap for me too ..

[photoman]

I'm taking a 4 week vacation (much needed) and some of the issues I'm going to tackle are:

- Amp 2200 or 5200. Keep my 1077 and use a 2200 or just go with a 5200 out right.

- Pre amp - get a CP500 and keep my 1068 processor for movies or just step up to a SSP600.

- CD go with a CDP-102 and keep my Pioneer 79avi and get rid of the 1072; or just get the CDP300 and get rid of both?

My goals are to get the excellent 2 ch stereo with good HT. Hence I believe I might be going with a CA2200, CP500, CDP102. Keep my 1068 as my processor feeding the R/L into the CP500 for HT stuff and use my 1077 to power my front and rears. Keep my 79avi for DVD stuff and multi-channel.

DVD, I heard the CDP300 as a CD player I was impressed to say the least. But is it really that good as a DVD player as well (didn't try that). Can I do multichannel out of the CDP300?

Amp - the CA2200 is well a nuclear reactor, would you loose anything going to a 5200 instead. I mean hey 2Ch vs 5CH and it about the same size chassis. Something had to give.

Pre-AMP - I heard the SSP600, what flexibility. Is the CP500 more musical. Besides the SSP600 has no HDMI; if I get a SSP600 Classe will come out with a SSP601 with HDMI (trust me). Never heard a CP500 is it more musical then a SSP600

I'm just a bit confused; good thing I got that vacation coming up I can take a breather ask questions, get my bearings and sort this out. It's going to be fun. The only hard part is where the hell I'm I going to put this stuff, it's too big for the AV center.

[grit]

Photoman, I can't wait to see what you come up with. I've been debating those questions for at least 6 months, but without any practical experience. The only thing I can tell ya is that when you go from the 2200 to the 5200, there's a drop in power (kinda). The 2200 is 200 watts @ 8 ohms, 400 watts at 4 ohms. The 5200 is 200 watts @ 8 ohms, 370 watts @ 4 ohms. That's JUST a statistic. I have NO idea how it'll play out in a real-world environment, subject specifically (of course) to your particular speakers. Which reminds me, what speakers are you using?

[xk8boy]

Finally. Greeting to Classe owners.

[RobP]

Welcome xk8boy!

Photoman, any idea of the cost of the CDP300?

[photoman]

Photoman, I can't wait to see what you come up with. I've been debating those questions for at least 6 months, but without any practical experience. The only thing I can tell ya is that when you go from the 2200 to the 5200, there's a drop in power (kinda). The 2200 is 200 watts @ 8 ohms, 400 watts at 4 ohms. The 5200 is 200 watts @ 8 ohms, 370 watts @ 4 ohms. That's JUST a statistic. I have NO idea how it'll play out in a real-world environment, subject specifically (of course) to your particular speakers. Which reminds me, what speakers are you using?

B&W
Fronts are 803D's, Center HTM3, Rears 805s Sub ASW825. Going to replace the HTM3 with a HTM2D. For HT the HTM3 is fine, but soon as you go to SCAD you can hear the mismatch, not terrible but it bugging me more and more :B

[grit]

I'm very familiar with the 803S and faily so with the 803D. Cant' wait to hear what ya find! Enjoy your vacation.

[RebelMan]

Has anyone compared Classe's CD players (or DVD players) to other brands (Ayre, Arcam, etc) with respect to 2-ch music? I'd love to get some opinions. I curerntly have a separate CD and DVD player (Rotel). I was wondering when I upgrade (intending to go Classe), will I still need a separate CD player to get better quality 2-ch music?

I spent a fair amount of time comparing the Rotel RCD-1072 and Ayre C-5xe to Classe's CDP-202. All three players are very good and as much as I would like to say that both the Ayre and the Classe smoked the Rotel that would be a gross exaggeration. For Rotel's given price point the 1072 is a hell-of-a player but it isn't without its faults.

I ran all three players through my Classe' CP-700 pre-amp and CA-M400 mono's. Compared to the CDP-202 the RCD-1072 lacked some ability to resolve inner detail and microdynamics were somewhat restrained in some cases and glaring in others and an ever so slight collapse in dimensionality was present. Brushed cymbals and tambourine taps were difficult to identify at times and too shrill at others and background percussions sounded slightly synthetic. Paul Hardcastle is notorious for synthesizing instruments in his recordings. Rather than exhibiting a sense of bloom the 1072 imposed a negative assertion on the synthesized tunes. Finally, long exposure to the 1072 was tiring but not quite fatiguing. I had the frequent urge to turn down the volume when listening to the 1072 whereas I had the urge to turn up the volume when listening to the 202. Overall, the 1072 performed competently and without the benefit of a side-by-side evaluation its shortcomings could have been easily overlooked.

It was a different case with the C-5xe. The C-5xe has garnered a lot of attention of late and rightfully so. The C-5xe piped through my Classe’ system sounded fantastic which is a lot more than I can say when I heard it paired with Ayre’s own K-5xe pre-amp and V-5xe amp. Compared to the 202 I wouldn’t say the C-5xe is better, just different. Both players had impressive abilities to extract every bit of information that could be processed and then present those results in fabulous detail and resolve. I perceived nothing artificial injected in to the data stream. If the CD was well mastered it sounded great. But by the same token if it wasn’t then there was nothing that the players did to mask those imperfections. I had the tendency and the joy to listen to my better recordings over and over again. In the end I discovered what separated the two players overall identities. I found the 202 to be slightly more refined and polished while the C-5xe was slightly punchier. Given that the C-5xe is a universal player I would have to give it the nod for someone that enjoys or owns a collection of SACD’s. Beyond that it comes down to functionality and aesthetics both of which the 202 trumps over the C-5xe in my opinion.

[RebelMan]

photoman, with the exception on the CDP-300 and CA-3200 I have auditioned just about everything else in the Delta series line. I am looking forward to reading your account of the demonstrations.

[photoman]

My wife said something the other day that made sense (I often don't that is why I keep her around); her comment was "Why drive yourself crazy, keep what we've got and just add a great 2CH aux system. "Get the amp a CD and what else you need and swap cables" What she suggested was, keep our current Rotel setup, which she like because it small and fits into our furniture, and just buy a good 2Ch setup and keep them separate. First I thought, Ok this is really going to cost me "she's looking for something I know it; new car, shoes, trip to Europe"

Aside from having a great wife, my only concern with this is pulling out the cables over and again going from one system to another. I'd leave my current setup as is, then when I want to listen to 2CH just unplug the HT system and plug in the 2CH. I'm worried about the wear and tear on the speaker binding posts? Should I be? Let's say I swap the cable once a day worst case scenario. Are their any good A+B switch boxes out for audio that wont degrade my signal? I plan on use biwire cables for this approach.

[Kal Rubinson]

Get a preamp or integrated with a HT bypass. No need to swap cable.

Kal

[bleeding ears]

Kal, I assume Classe do make one?

That is a 2 ch pre or integrated with HT bypass?

Maybe I should check out their website.

Peter

[Kal Rubinson]

Kal, I assume Classe do make one?
That is a 2 ch pre or integrated with HT bypass?
Maybe I should check out their website.
Peter

Dunno, I was not paying attention to the forum title when I responded. My guess is that Classe does offer one as most do today.

Kal

[photoman]

According to Classe' techs they don't have an HT pass through on the pre-amps.

[RebelMan]

According to Classe' techs they don't have an HT pass through on the pre-amps.

All of Classe's Delta series pre-amps and integrated support HT pass-through.

[photoman]

Perhaps, I didn't explain myself fully to the tech 8O . This is good, but wouldn't I still have to use two volume controls if your using 2 separate amps in a configuration: say amp1 for center and rears and amp 2 for front with it's own pre-amp

[photoman]

Out of curiosity, which configuration would you pick:

CA5200 or a CA3200 + CA2100

powering 803D / HTM2D + 805's

[Kal Rubinson]

Perhaps, I didn't explain myself fully to the tech 8O . This is good, but wouldn't I still have to use two volume controls if your using 2 separate amps in a configuration: say amp1 for center and rears and amp 2 for front with it's own pre-amp

Nope. The MCH controller VC controls all while the HT bypass bypasses the VC in the preamp.

Kal

[grit]

Out of curiosity, which configuration would you pick:

CA5200 or a CA3200 + CA2100

powering 803D / HTM2D + 805's

If I'm not mistaken, the 3200 + 2100 combo will cost you more money than the 5200. I don't think there is an advantage to running 2 amps in this case.

[RebelMan]

If you don't mind (and can accommodate) the extra bulk I would take the CA-5200 over the CA-3200 and CA-2100 for a few reasons. Like grit said the 5200 is less expensive, $1500 less (retail). The input sensitivities are different between the 3200 and the 2100 so there maybe some gain offsets that you may need to adjust for in the pre/pro, which Classe' allows you to do. It's not a big deal if you don't mind tinkering with these types of settings. Finally, the 805S's are less sensitive than the 803D's are so they will need more power to reach the same SPL's, about 60% more but again this is really not a big issue. Just some points to think about if you haven't already.

[photoman]

Thanks. How new / old is the Delta line; when can a replacement be had 6/12/18/24 months?

[RebelMan]

Much of the Delta Series was announced in the latter half of '04 and product releases began mostly in '05. It's all fairly new stuff to the market place but development of the line has been going on since '01 when B&W got involved.

[photoman]

That sounds good. I've at least decided on a complete upgrade, with the exception of a DVD player :B . I just can't justify 6500 for a DVD player that isn't one of the newer formats. No worries though, as I plan on using my pioneer until Classe puts out a DVD with what ever format they believe is going to dominate.

On anther note, went to the local big box store the other day; they had a toshiba DVD-HD player being demoed. What a picture and it was being played on a pretty poor LCD. It will be exciting to see what Classe comes up with. I hope we don't have to wait too long for it. That pioneer is going to stick out like a saw thumb until then.

[photoman]

If you don't mind (and can accommodate) the extra bulk I would take the CA-5200 over the CA-3200 and CA-2100 for a few reasons. Like grit said the 5200 is less expensive, $1500 less (retail). The input sensitivities are different between the 3200 and the 2100 so there maybe some gain offsets that you may need to adjust for in the pre/pro, which Classe' allows you to do. It's not a big deal if you don't mind tinkering with these types of settings. Finally, the 805S's are less sensitive than the 803D's are so they will need more power to reach the same SPL's, about 60% more but again this is really not a big issue. Just some points to think about if you haven't already.

Looks like the amp is going to have to sit on the floor as it wont fit in the AV center. The 3200 / 2100 will fit but not sure about proper cooling as it would tight, hence it looks like a 5200 would be my best bet and I get to save some money.

[philly boy]

Looks like the amp is going to have to sit on the floor as it wont fit in the AV center. The 3200 / 2100 will fit but not sure about proper cooling as it would tight, hence it looks like a 5200 would be my best bet and I get to save some money.

The Delta series can generate some heat and your amp(s) will need adequate ventilation. I think these amps run in Class A for about the first-third of their capable wattage, resulting in some heat. They are well designed with large heatsinks that do a good job dispersing the heat, but they still need ventilation. Good luck, photoman, I sure enjoy my CA-2200.---Philip

[stewfoo]

The 5200 is way too deep for my entertainment center. Plus I was made a deal that I couldn't refuse for my 3200 /2100 combo. If you can swing it, I would definitely suggest the 5200.
Stew

[photoman]

Quality / Reliablity

Having never owned Classe gear before, what is the reliability like; is this stuff as reliable as it looks? Anyone have any issues with their gear? Did you go back to the dealer or straight to Classe? What about touch panels life spans? Their sure are cool, but cool doesn't translate to longevity (unless your me of course).

I did own some Bryston stuff 25 years ago as a kid (my school chum still uses it) you could open that stuff up pee in it and it would still work. I wouldn't doubt someone did that in one of my famous beer parties when I was a .. well kid. So is Classe built like that, it looks like it is (I hope)

[gross30]

Photoman, I am running a set of Classe 15 monoblocks for main 2 ch and they are 11 years old, and no issues with them. They are built like a tank. I'm not familiar with the new delta line, but I would assume they would be constructed and designed in the same manner.

[stewfoo]

Touch screens are beautiful and reliable so far. It is hard to tell the lifespan because delta series is relatively new. But let me tell you one thing, Classe is HEAVY and built like a brick house. It oozes with build quality!
Stew

[photoman]

Thanks Men,

Getting ready to pull the trigger soon.

[stewfoo]

New version of Classe CDP-300??

Where the heck is andrew ward?? I was wondering if anyone has heard any news on the new version of the cdp-300 with the hdmi switching built in......

[RebelMan]

I was deliberating on an HT upgrade to Classe's CDP-300, SSP-300 and CA-5100 or take a chance on one of the new high-definition video players such as Toshiba's HD-XA1 and using my Rotel RSX-1056. Based on the less than stellar audio performance of some early HD-DVD movie releases (You can see the reviews in this month's issue of Widescreen Magazine) coupled with the glowing reviews of the SSP-300 and CA-5100 in Home Theater Magazine, (plus my own experience with Classe') I have decided to put my money in a tried and true hi-end rather than hi-def format.

Someday when the dust has settled and a new format that is adopted by Classe' emerges I will make my move. Until that day, I will enjoy my DVD's and I will continue to buy them. Heck, the money I'll save on the price differences between the two media formats will go to cover the extra hardware costs that I invest in today. Later on I will donate my DVD's to a worthy cause and buy a high-definition audio/video solution from Classe' (when they release one) and never skip a beat of audio bliss. :lol:

[Gump]

Just stumbled onto this new Classe thread...very cool! Good questions photoman.

Yes, RebelMan, I just read that HT magazine about the CA-5100 and the SSP-300.
Very interesting. Makes me wonder if I could get by with that set up combined with my 803D's and be content or if the CA-5200 would really make that big of a difference?

[stewfoo]

Gump,
With 803d you really want at least 2oow/ch. I use the 3200 to run my front Ht stage with 803s and Htm3s. I use the 2100 to run my surrounds. There is a clear difference. I ended up crossing over my rear stage higher to get the most out of the 100w/ch amp. With the 5100 you will always wonder "what if I had 200 w/ch"

By the way, glad to see that another Zonie is joining our club. BTW, I am in Phoenix and you are more than welcome to listen my setup and hear the difference between the 100 and 200w/ch amps on 803s
Stew

[Gump]

Thanks for the offer, stewfoo...that sounds great.
Yea, in my heart I know that the 200wpc is the least that will make me happy, But that 3,000$ smaller pricetag was inviting. I'm scheduled today to pick-up the CA-5200 and the SSP-300 from our local stereo-shop for an in-home demo.

Now, if I can just figure out how to lift that big beast up onto my stereo niche shelf.... 8O

[stewfoo]

Gump,
You are trying the 5200, but buying the 5100??? That 5100 should be sweet. But, i think it just begs for upgraditis. I was thoroughly upset when I bought all of my Rotel gear with the 803s/htm3s. I really felt a bit mislead.. and I wasted tons of money after ebaying my Rotel gear and having to buy the Classe stuff later. But, now I am loving my system.

Now I am interested to see how well my Classe ssp-300 can be controlled with the Control4 automation system I am having installed next week.

[photoman]

So what is with this SSP-900 thing all about and when if ever is it supposed to be coming out? Figures, I've pretty much decided on a 5200 and a SSP-600 and Classe does one on me and I didn't even buy it yet. All kidding aside, I know it has HDMI switching, not sure I need that as I use a DVDO iSCAN30 for that (pretty nice unit and I'm happy with it), so outside of HDMI switching anyone know what else it's supposed to do? BTW, I've got to buy something now, I just sold my Rotel 1068 (the other stuff is almost gone) so I'm music-less; no problem as I'm going on vacation in a couple of days and I've got my iPOD for that.

Stew I feel your pain, I too have spent some cash on stuff that well perhaps with a little more thought .... well hind sight is always 20/20. I'm just happy that I didn't become a photographer as I wouldn't have be able to afford my passions including photography :B

[Gump]

Gump,
You are trying the 5200, but buying the 5100??? That 5100 should be sweet. But, i think it just begs for upgraditis. I was thoroughly upset when I bought all of my Rotel gear with the 803s/htm3s. I really felt a bit mislead.. and I wasted tons of money after ebaying my Rotel gear and having to buy the Classe stuff later. But, now I am loving my system.

Now I am interested to see how well my Classe ssp-300 can be controlled with the Control4 automation system I am having installed next week.

I'm still in the demo-ing stage; haven't completely decided what I'm going to buy yet. I've been interested in the CA-5200 because I have to combine HT/Music due to equipment space restrictions. I just read about the 5100 and it got a good review, plus it's less money than the 5200 therefore piquing my interest.
The stereo shop doesn't have a CA-5100 on hand for a demo so I checked out the 5200 instead. You're right about the risk of regretting buying the lessor of the 2 amps, so I would probably spring for the 5200 anyway.
Now, about that demo....

[Gump]

I brought the CA-5200 and the SSP-300 home from my dealer today for an in-home demo. At the risk of stating the obvious---that is one heavy, HEAVY amp!!! My stereo equipment niche is above the TV about 5ft high. Did I mention that the amp is heavy? Ok, so now I need a little drywall work and my wife is already mad at me and it's not even hooked up yet.

The good news is that it sounded just as spectacular as I knew it would. My 803D's made me proud. As I listened to the music the word I kept thinking about was how "refined" they sounded together. But they also sounded discreetly powerful and authoritative. I think I now understand better what people mean when they say that the amp has to "control" the speakers. The combination of EQ/speakers was delivering the music with "refined authority" and it sounded great.

One song in particular that I listened to was Christina Aguilera's version of "A Song For You" from Herbie Hancock's "Possibilities" CD. With just a little imagination it sounded like I was listening to that song live in a small club or lounge and I had the best seat in the house. Very cool!

Ok, now for the bad news. First off the WAF issue was not good. She did not like the way they looked and said they appeared to be something from a space ship. I had to admit it would be nice if they came in black which would match my other EQ better. She also wasn't real enamored with how heavy and awkward the amp was. The drywall issue seemed to prevail during that aspect of the critique. I also had to acknowledge that due to my shelf being up so high it did make it cumbersome if I ever had to move it around to work on it (hooking up new EQ., etc.).

Another bad karma sign was I had a pretty loud hum coming from the center Channel speaker that prevented me from checking out the 5.1 capabilities of the set-up. I still don't know what was causing it. I eventually dis-connected the SSP-300 altogether which isolated the problem between the amp and the speaker. The L/R and surrounds were totally quiet. I then switched the center speaker wires to another channel and switched the other speaker wire to the channel where I had the center speaker hooked-up. The center still had the hum and the other speaker was still quiet. This indicated to me that the problem had to be with the speaker or wire and not the amp. But I checked and re-checked the wire and it was ok. Plus, when I hooked the center back up to my Marantz SR it's fine now. Very puzzling as well as annoying because it caused me to dis-connect everything there-by cutting my demo session short. Oh well....

So now I'm not sure where I stand. Next week my stereo guru is bringing out a Linn Chakra 3200 amp and a unidisk SC to leave at my house for a few days to demo. I'll have to wait and see how that goes. Based on the factors above he's kinda got the inside track now.

But I sure do love the sound of that Classe/B&W combo.... 8)

[stewfoo]

Gump, whichever direction you go it sounds like you are looking at great equipment. The 5200 really is a huge beast. It is so long that I could not fit it into my entertainment center. I really was forced to use a 3200 and a 2100 or 2200 for my system.


The looks are definitely where you love em or hate em.. I guess this is the reason why my dealer in the midwest says Classe doesnt sell there. His clients tend to prefer the looks of McIntosh..

I love the Classe Delta look and sound.

Happy hunting gump!!
Stew