Your suggestion for a measurement set up

[noviygera]

I plan on learning to make accurate measurements and crossover modeling. Would like to get a calibrated mic along with the needed hardware. Plan to use ARTA and VituixCAD, for now.
I have UMIK 1 (from what I read, will not work optimally with ARTA) and a Behringer EMC8000. I don't know where to get it calibrated, maybe I can still use it?

Can you suggest a good, proven hardware combo (mic + external sound card) under $500 to make accurate measurements in a regular room?

Thanks.

[draki]

https://www.sonarworks.com/soundid-reference/store/soundid-reference-measurement-microphone

https://focusrite.com/en/usb-audio-interface/scarlett/scarlett-2i2

[Reet]

I use Steinberg UR22mkii, but most By USB audio Interface will do the trick. Behringer UMC line is as cheap as they come and still very capable. USB audio Interface offers good portability and integrated phantom power with individual channel gain control.

There's lots of options for mics, Sonarworks is one of the cheapest, or you could send your Behringer mic to a place like Cross spectrum labs. I recently purchased Line Audio OM1, surprisingly flat without the need for a calibration file. The Line Audio mics are characterised by manual adjustment of the circuitry rather than providing a compensation file.

Then of course you need some wire and resistors, connectors and a box if you want it in a nice little jig. It can all come in under $500.

[noviygera]

Thanks.
Ordered Scarlett 2i2. Waiting to hear from
Cross spectrum If they can calibrate my ecm8000. If they don’t, is Sonarworks mic a good one for for taking measurements?

[Reet]

CSL can definitely calibrate your ECM8000 they've been doing it for years, from what I've heard don't expect prompt service though.

Sonarworks is essentially the same mic as ECM8000 but with a questionable calibration, as they don't specify any degree of accuracy. As I found with the Dayton EMM-6, calibration without specification can be "garbage", and cheap condenser modules can be rather poor if you want to take distortion measurements at some point. With mics you mostly get what you pay for IMO, so if you want perfection get an Earthworks or Audiomatica. I can recommend the Line Audio OM1 as an intermediate solution as well, mine was CAD $210.

[Zvu]

I'm using Steinberg UR12 (great Asio drivers and bypases all of the winshit), calibrated Behringer ECM8000 (i have it for 10 years and still works great), TPA3118 amp attached to a small motorbike accumulator (a friend of mine made this) and old gen I i5 HP lap top. This way measuring system is mobile and selfpowered. We can measure in woods if we want to.

As for precision, here are mine measurements with 200€ equipment (uploaded to LspCAD and simulated crossover) versus Klippel NFS 110.000€ measuring system. My measurements are valid down to 100Hz.





Same model but different continents and loudspeakers, of course.

[bnesic]

Which exact TPA3118 module are you using? The measurements are really good!

[noviygera]

Guys, thanks for your help.
Two questions so far: Steinberg UR12 vs Scarlett 2i2, which one is preferred for Windows laptop?
As far as cheap calibrated microphones, do I Need to worry about the accuracy of distortion measurements and do I need to get an Earthworks mic or something?

[Zvu]

@Noviygera - i'm using Win10 with Steinberg UR12. I guess there are reviews on Youtube about Scarlet 2i2 you can find.

@BNesic - it's something really cheap. Since most of my measurement gear is still boxed somewhere, i'll try to find it and check. It is small, square blue pcb - that much i remember

[tktran]

If you look at the the VituixCAD and REW (or ARTA) manual there’s a list of products that work with it.

“Preparing measurements for REW (or ARTA) “

I think- but the recommended products and set it up as specified for dual channel setup.

[Bear]

Guys, thanks for your help.
Two questions so far: Steinberg UR12 vs Scarlett 2i2, which one is preferred for Windows laptop?
As far as cheap calibrated microphones, do I Need to worry about the accuracy of distortion measurements and do I need to get an Earthworks mic or something?

An Earthworks M30 is Not Cheap, and it is definitely somewhere in the range where the value curve starts to get really, really flat. It's not unaffordably expensive, but you're typically looking at an AP or B&K mic, thinking "that's too much" rather than "what do I need as a hobbyist?" The good news is that Earthworks calibrates them as standard (I need to send mine back for recalibration). Given what others have achieved with the ECM8000, I'd go with something along those lines if I had to do it again from scratch. You just need to pay attention to staying within the ECM8000's usable envelope -- but that's true for all of these devices.

I'll toss a plug for a measurement turntable into the mix. Once Steve Manning gets done with all of his fun, beautiful stuff, I'd still want an indexed measurement turntable for the 5 degree measurements that Vituix wants.

[technodanvan]

Once Steve Manning gets done with all of his fun, beautiful stuff, I'd still want an indexed measurement turntable for the 5 degree measurements that Vituix wants.

Sorry, does this mean to say you're working with Steve to have such a thing made? I recall someone a while back showing one using a 3D printed indexer that looked pretty sweet, dunno if Steve can do that but it'd be cool to offer them to the community.

I've got my own plan for one but would seriously consider an SMJ version, especially since mine won't be indexed.

[Steve Manning]

Sorry, does this mean to say you're working with Steve to have such a thing made? I recall someone a while back showing one using a 3D printed indexer that looked pretty sweet, dunno if Steve can do that but it'd be cool to offer them to the community.

I've got my own plan for one but would seriously consider an SMJ version, especially since mine won't be indexed.

Steve has a rough drawing put together for Bear on said measuring devise. As far as scales and what not think along these lines ......





A test sample will need to be done to see how it turns out.

[ergo]

Sorry, does this mean to say you're working with Steve to have such a thing made? I recall someone a while back showing one using a 3D printed indexer that looked pretty sweet, dunno if Steve can do that but it'd be cool to offer them to the community.

I've got my own plan for one but would seriously consider an SMJ version, especially since mine won't be indexed.

That might have been me.... I can share the Fusion 360 files if anyone's interested

[noviygera]

To start off, I got a Scarlett 2i2 audio interface and ordered an Earthworks M30 mic. Waiting to get it.
Haven't thought about a measurement turntable yet. Is this turntable needed immediately or can I get by without it for some time?

[Bear]

Steve has a rough drawing put together for Bear on said measuring devise. As far as scales and what not think along these lines ......

Thanks, Steve! It's obviously not a burning priority, but I am still interested. And my bet on the idea that I wouldn't be the only one may turn out to be correct.

That might have been me.... I can share the Fusion 360 files if anyone's interested

That definitely had an influence!

[JRay]

VituixCAD has great off axis capability where you can use a turntable to take a bunch of off axis measurements quickly. As you are just starting, learning single axis measurement process is probably best.

You also might consider PCD or XSim if want to do nearfield measurements splice, derive min phase, and find offsets.

[Scottg]

To start off, I got a Scarlett 2i2 audio interface and ordered an Earthworks M30 mic. Waiting to get it.
Haven't thought about a measurement turntable yet. Is this turntable needed immediately or can I get by without it for some time?

It's not needed to get a decent result. You can always "pull string" (literally) for your measurements off-axis from a central point relative to your loudspeaker's baffle. (..it is tedious though, but unless you do this a fair bit it's probably not worth it).

IMO you are better-off building a test baffle and testing your drivers 1st, and THEN start modeling with that (..at least for *upper-freq. drivers >800 Hz). Again, pulling string off of those drivers centered location to get your off-axis measurements (..along with a protractor of course).

*baffle doesn't have to be that large if you are mostly concerned with off-axis measurements: 3' by 5' should be plenty for smaller driver measurements. Surround the edge with rockwool (..flush to baffle on driver cone side, basket side can have "over-hang").

You do need to have a good connection of your mic. to a mic. boom for good mic. stand measurements. You should also have lots of pillows available to surround your loudspeaker (and mic. stand) for measuring it (..or you could just purchase a lot of 4" rockwool insulation).

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/measurements.htm