Subwoofer

[Paul H]

I'm going to build a subwoofer and am looking for opinions and options.

The sub is intended for a mix of HT and music. I don't need bone-crushing volume at 10 Hz (I usually play movies 10-15dB down from reference, sometimes louder) but am more interested in clear quality bass. My room is 24' x 17' x 8' in the basement - IB is not possible (unless I build out a wall and make my room 22" x 17' ). I don't have any particular restrictions on size, shape, appearance. I probably don't want to get into the high excursion $400-500 sub drivers which require megawatts to drive them well - I have a bryston 100watt (400W into 4Ohms bridged) that I'll use for now.

I'm thinking a tempest will work - low Fs, fairly high sensitivity, reasonably priced.

Is there some other driver I should be looking at for better quality?
Should I pick up two tempests - would sound quality improve noticeably because of lower excursion when using two drivers?

Paul

[ThomasW]

First decision is to build a box or a tube sub. There's no sonic difference between them. Tube subs are a fraction the weight and much easier to build. The obvious difference is appearance.

Is enclosure size an issue?

The cost of a pair of Tempests puts you in the price range of some of the best drivers out there.

The PE 15" Titanic MKIII is a very nice driver. Sort of a notch above the Tempest/PE-DVC-15 drivers, but not as expensive as the high excursion monster woofers.

If you're not in a big hurry (think mid November) the drivers being discussed in this THREAD are very attractive.

There are some interesting deals on the closeout Lambda SAE-1204 12"s. $200/pr. A pair of 12" provides about 20-25%% more radiating area compared to a similar Xmax rated 15"

[Paul H]

The sub will be a box, and can be any reasonable size - enclosure size is not an issue. I was thinking/assuming ported, but am open to suggestions.

I'd like to order something soon.

I looked at and liked the Titanic, and then figured that it would cost almost twice as much as the Tempest including delivery north of the border, which is what lead to the two Tempests suggestion.

Paul

[Bent]

What is the landed cost in Canada for the 15" PE Titanic MK III?

(including exchange, duties - if applicable and a total of 7% plus 7% in taxes?)

[Paul H]

It's approx US$200 plus $60 shipping plus $5 customs = $360 Can plus usual sales tax.

edit in - The tempest is approx $210 Can plus taxes delivered.

Paul

[Hank]

Paul, I built a 175L ported Tempest sonosub and couldn't be happier, as I think it's the best value DIY sub. If I were to go over the top, I'd do a multiple-driver (maybe the Adire DPL's) IB in the attic. Maybe someday...

[Bent]

So the tempest offers more VC options (16 ohms total, 8 plus 8, or 4 ohms parallell), and the PE offers more excursion.
Who has the more sensitive one (at 4 ohms) and which one has the better (flatter) response ?

[Paul H]

Hank, I'd do an IB if I could but my basement location and wall layout makes that impossible.

Bent, the Tempest seems to get pretty good reports on unequalized flat response. I'm fully expecting to need a BFD as I have a 'hole' in my room now around 60 Hz, but I'll build this sub and measure first.

I'm going to go with 2 tempests in a ported configuration. I'll check some more unibox modelling but will likely go with 175-215 litres per driver tuned to around 18 Hz.

I'm thinking two separate boxes - is there any benefit to putting both drivers in one box?

Paul

[Hank]

Paul, some people build two separate boxes, but stack 'em in the same corner. If you don't mind the weight and size, two Tempests in one enclosure are fine.

[ThomasW]

I'm thinking two separate boxes - is there any benefit to putting both drivers in one box?

Yes the individual drivers each 'interact' with the bigger box. So the efficiency is slightly higher.

Later today I'll send you an email regarding other driver options.

[PiDD]

I am also interested in any thoughts here. Can you post any recommendations or email me.

Thanks
Rob
pidd'at'shaw.ca

[David R.]

For us canadians its hard to pass up the shiva's or tempests from www.creativesound.ca Shipping is 10 bucks i think, only pay one tax, no broker costs.. its hard not to.. I decided on a 175L tempest because of it.

those drivers in that other thread look interesting though..

P.S. I dont mean to hijack the thread, but because theres a few people from manitoba in here.. I have a good amount of 16" sonotube sitting un used.. Work great for a 12" sub.. It's just taking up space.. And if you dont have the tools, i can build .

[mfishmike]

2 Titanic MKIII 12" in one box works fantastic

I used two of the 12" MKIII Titanics and 1 1/8" particle board extremely well glued and braced. Finished it off with black Pionote formica with an elegant grill covering and have one beautiful looking and sounding subwoofer. I'm driving each of the two 4 ohm drivers with 425 watts each from the Left and Right channels of a QSC 1450 amplifier, mounted in my equipment rack with the rest of the amps and players. With no amp mounted on the speaker, it weighs in at 187 lbs. Cost U.S. dollars was just under $1000.00 which includes cost of the QSC amplifier. Sound is fantastic and rivals subs in the 3k range.

Construction photos at my Yahoo group:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mfishmike

[JonMarsh]

Looks pretty good, Mike- I bet you can get some pretty clean SPL out of that setup.

Only 187 lb? Oh, you probably MEANT for it to be portable, right?

I used to do some stuff in the 70's with 1-1/8" MDF; it's gets pretty heavy pretty quickly- but it is pretty stout, and easy to work with. How's the box tuned?


~Jon

[mfishmike]

Tuning.....

Jon,

I tuned it to 19.75 hz initially with the single 4" port. After all the extra bracing and glue blocking, I could have used two 4" ports instead. I hear no port noise and the sound is incredible at all levels with all types of music and ht, so I don't see the need to change anything.

Yes, I get fantastic and clean sound at all levels with the whole setup. Those are 4 Lambda drivers in the two mains. The crossover photo attached is what I built for them and the doubling of all the drivers in each cabinet, gives me that clean sound with the efficiency that two drivers gives you. I kept the HI-VI tweets in all three front speakers to maintain a certain degree of timbre matching.

One special note, probably never mentioned in your forum, is the type of siding I put on my home. You can walk up to my back door and open it up, and if you are not prepared or don't know the system is on and cranked up, it will startle or scare you! Really!! The concrete type product that the James Hardie materials has in them deadens the sound. Only if the bass is really rocking, will you ever know it's on. Something to keep in mind especially in leu of our new home theater systems, and the fact that many homes are built so close together!

Keep up the good work with this forum....good job.......

Mike Cason

[JonMarsh]

Yeah, that really could be a problem with newer homes- especially out here in California, where it seems like they don't even have 10 feet between the walls of some fairly expensive places! I've seen a lot of that lately in my town. Interesting tip!

And thanks for the kind words re HT Guide! It's an interesting bunch of people we have dropping in- a wide range of interests, and a better than average sense of community! Welcome on board, Mike!

~Jon

[mfishmike]

Well heck...your welcome!.....

Jon,

I got a lot of help from your fans in the Rotel room several months ago.

I took my Rotel RSX 1065 in to Houston for the software upgrade to their auth rep and brought it home and it didn't work at all! No sound period....

Your members in the Rotel Club forum tried walking me through the software and eprom steps and I might add that some of those guys are real smart cookies. We couldn't get it going...Rotel let me bypass the tech center in Houston, and shipped me a new board and chip and I installed it and reprogrammed the software to the 3.1 version, a slight upgrade. Rotel is still stumped why the full upgrade still won't work, so I'll leave it like it is. Rotel offered to rebuild it at the factory, but I didn't want to be without it that long!

Again, YOUR board came through for me then too.....the guys in the Rotel Room were right on target...You are on top of my referral list! :B

Mike Cason