Pssst, want a sneek peek at a brand new driver?

[Scott Simonian]

Any news?

[ThomasW]

Less than 2 weeks until launch...... :T

Here's a little snip from Chad's last email to me on Dec 2nd.

The 12 and 15 inch Atlas subwoofers are actually all built, and will be on a palette tomorrow. I should get the drivers by the middle of next week. The larger drivers are awaiting the new spiders, and should be ready the same time a week later. I can't believe that they are finally ready!!! I will send you the website address when it is ready.

Jon will be getting one of the 12" drivers for testing ...... :B

[JonMarsh]

It's going to be a VERY interesting December....

[cjd]

The 12's sure sound good. I'm waiting on the big one that hasn't been spoken of much yet... I think I heard 52mm one way? :E Though, I have no idea what I would do with such a beast, a large chimney (as in, monster manifold out the roof) IB install with 24 came to mind. Who needs neighbors?!

Of course, I came in part way through that conversation, and they were discussing PR's from the components for those...

C

[Scott Simonian]

The 12's sure sound good. I'm waiting on the big one that hasn't been spoken of much yet... I think I heard 52mm one way?

Huh? I thought the "Big One" was the 18"er.

[Jack Gilvey]

I've been corresponding with Chad on these, they're going to be a killer line...hopefully I'll get to play with one soon. While the larger ones are ultimate performance, the "smaller" 15's look like the most fun. You don't realize how flexible and useful Chad's VC design is until you start playing with the numbers, and they don't need huge amps to do what they do.

[cjd]

Huh? I thought the "Big One" was the 18"er.

uhh, yeah. You really think a mega bass-head will be satisfied with the paltry xmax on that 18? :B

nah, I may easily be waaaay off bass (cough) here so just ignore this part.

The sound *is* really super though.

C

[Evil Twin]

I am very interested in seeing the specifications and evaluating the full performance capabilities of the new 12" driver- it's capabilities could be critical in realizing the performance goals of the diople system currently in development (Saint-Saen).

Unquestionably the voice coil configuration options should provide previously unrealized performance opporunities in a dipole system.

[Hank]

Verrrry interesting indeed. Evil Twin, I've been meaning to ask you: where did Nice Twin get the speaker name, "Saint Saen"?

[Brian Bunge]

Well, due to some financial issues I sold my Tumult driver last week and am pretty sure I have a buyer for my K2. So now I'm looking at possibly going with an IB design for my next sub. I'd love to see the specs for the 'smaller' 15's if anyone here has them and is allowed to share.

[ThomasW]

Brian,

I posted all the info I have.

The product launch is supposed to be in approx 10 days, I imagine everything will be posted then.

Hank,

Evil Twin is somewhere in the midwest this week.

Camille Saint-Saens is one of Evil Twin's favorite composers

Saint-Saens follows the Linkwitz (Audio-Artistry) tradition of naming dipole designs after classical musical composers (so does the Arvo Part design named after the Estonian composer).

[ThomasW]

Here's info on the 'smaller' motor 15"

The T/S specs for the Atlas 15 used in its 4 ohm configuration are as follows:

Fs 21.5 Hz
Qms 6.56
Qes .37
Vas 364 Liters
Sd 810 cm^2
xmax 18 mm
Re 2.8 ohms
Znom 4 ohms
Mms 138 grams
Qts .35 - .57 (adjustable)
Spl 91.8 dB 1W/1M (with Qts of .35)

When using the 2 ohm coil ( typically with a pair of drivers in series to also give a 4 ohm load...) the driver exhibits these Qts ratings:

Qts .492 - 1.05

Using the Atlas 15 in an IB setup with a Qts of ~.5 or over results in a fantastic unassisted frequency response. It obviously also has incredible potential for dipole use. This driver is without a doubt our best candidate for IB setups. It also helps that the Atlas drivers are both essentially "bottomless". By that I mean that it is almost physically impossible to bottom out the voice coil. As you know, very little power is required to use all of this driver's available excursion in an IB setup.

[Jack Gilvey]

For those who's modelling software doesn't permit direct input of Qts values, just raise/lower Qes until the desired Qts is reached.

[Brian Bunge]

Thomas,

Thanks. That does look like an excellent choice for an IB driver. A pair of those with 250W looks to be perfect.

[JonMarsh]

Verrrry interesting indeed. Evil Twin, I've been meaning to ask you: where did Nice Twin get the speaker name, "Saint Saen"?

Camille composed one of my all time favorite symphonies, the Cminor Organ Sympony No. 4. This is a very good system workout, also, besides being nice music if you're into French impressionism. Being an excitable boy in the 70's, I was very easily impressed...

I figure if we can assemble a dipole system that will do good recordings of this symphony justice (I'm drooling at the through of the Mercury Living Presence SACD version - definitely on my Xmas list), then we just might have something...

The T/S specs for the Atlas 15 used in its 4 ohm configuration are as follows:

Fs 21.5 Hz
Qms 6.56
Qes .37
Vas 364 Liters
Sd 810 cm^2
xmax 18 mm
Re 2.8 ohms
Znom 4 ohms
Mms 138 grams
Qts .35 - .57 (adjustable)
Spl 91.8 dB 1W/1M (with Qts of .35)

And these specs really make it pretty "bang up" for the dipole application, too. Hmmm, wonder if I should re-think my cabinet ideas, and go with dual 15"? Awfully PA like, though. Even in a small H frame, and not very easy to move around, I bet. 8O But imagine the sound.... :E

[Hank]

Okay, I didn't realize Linkwitz' "tradition". Speaking of legends and Mercury Living Presence Recordings, I'm compelled to share an emotional history of my attraction to music and to playing an instrument. As a kid, I had access to a "portable" stereo record player. There were three LP's that I played on that machine that changed me forever. Three very different types of music, each mesmerizing to me. One was Antal Dorati conducting the LSO in Rimsky-Korsakov's suite from "le Coq d'Or", "Capriccio Espagnol" and Russian Easter Overture, and Borodin's Polovtsian Dances from "Prince Igor".
Another was an album I haven't seen since: "Chicago Style Jazz". The third, and most inspiring, was "Fennell Conducts Sousa Sound Off! & Sousa on Review". The Dorati and Fennell LP's were Mercury Living Presence.
Last week I received the new SACD Dorati and Fennell remasterings, and was reminiscing about how Frederick Fennell's performances of Sousa's marches touched and inspired me to seek out more music and take up the clarinet.
This Tuesday evening at Austin Symphonic Band rehearsal, our conductor, Dr. Richard Floyd, announced that Frederick Fennel had passed away in Florida the day before. Dr. Floyd had known Dr. Fennell for many years. Dr. Floyd said that when he was in the Texas high school honor band in 1957, Dr. Fennell was the guest conductor, and that he had no idea that he'd become a professional player, then music educator and develop a professional and friendship relationship with Dr. Fennell. Dr. Fennell's health has been failing and his wife and daughter took him to Florida, where he had a home on the west coast. He got to see one more glorious sunset, and later, failing fast, said: "I can't hear the drummer. I can't die without the drummer". His daughter said something like: Don't worry, heaven's best drummer is waiting to meet you. Later, his last words, with a smile, were: "I can hear the drummer!" Then he passed on.
Thank you, Frederick Fennell, for bringing musical inspiration to this Texas boy!

[JonMarsh]

Yeah, those early influences are pretty important; have a lasting impact. Sorry to hear about Fennell passing on. A lot of that going on these days with people our age set reveres.

I'm familiar with the Dorati recording, too. Others that were picked up in the early 70's include Jacquie Loussier (that "Play Bach" guy, on Telearc these days- great SACD of a compilation of his recordings), Edgar Varesse, Stravinsky of course, and Glen Gould's Bach recordings- there's a really nice release of the Goldberg variations on SACD, as well as the Italien Concerto's Part 1 and 2. Also "discovered" Mahler and
Carl Orff. When younger I was already sort of rabid about Tsaichovsky and Mozart.

~Jon

[cjd]

Back on topic...

linky

:B

Though, it looks like it's not *quite* ready for full release, as I now discover... Some missing info on the Order page.

[JonMarsh]

Well, this is obviously a "work in progress", but it's very good to see it making this progress.

I think Chad is on to something here with the flexibility thing, because now you can buy a driver which you can optimize yourself for the applicatoni- sealed box, dipole, or ported, all with one driver configuration. Very nice.

~Jon

[Dustin B]

Been waiting a while to see the specs on the Atlas 12. Have no idea what all the possible wiring options are, but just going with the 2ohm coils in series option the spec page lists, a pair with 600W in 280L tuned to 20hz sure looks nice.

The only problem being an ADA600 and two Atlas 12 drivers would be over $900 after shipping. I guess that's still over $400 less than a PB12/2 Plus and should out perform it.

Anybody with the knowledge want to take the time to enumerate for us some of the options this coil schema provides for using pairs in various allignments?

[Chad Kuypers]

The website was up briefly for a test. As a result, it is very "abridged" right now and I am unfortunately going to remove the information for the time being. Nobody was supposed to see the website 'half naked" but I just KNEW somebody was going to post a link. Don't worry, it will be back up in a few days.

The adjustable coil idea behind the Atlas subwoofers is actually a VERY simple thing to implement. However, explaining all of its abilities in a clear manner takes a little more effort than a subwoofer that simply has one set of specs. I didn't want people to be confused by incomplete information, so the website was not made public yet. There will be a number of tutorials and pictures explaining how they work and why. When the information is back up on the website, it will have all of the explanations that you could want. Until then, its back to work for me...

[Scott Simonian]

Chad, is there still going to be an eighteen inch subwoofer?

[Chad Kuypers]

Dustin,

I promise that the website will answer all of your questions.

Scott,

Yes!!! We will most definitely be offering the Avalanche 18 inch subwoofer along with a 15 inch version.

[Scott Simonian]

Thanks, Chad! That is good to know. Me want one right now! Hehe.

[Dustin B]

Never doubted you would Chad. It's just when I'm not doing the website development work I don't have any patience :wink:

Oh, and since you're here, I've been waiting two years for Adire to get their XBL^2 HE series speakers out, but it seems they've been too busy making a success of their OEM business to get the time. Any chance you'll develop an XBL^2 coaxial kit similar to the HE series in the near future?

[cjd]

Hey... that was better than the "access denied" I got the other day. :P

Never test on your live site, unless you put it all well behind a facade. Some anxious person *will* find it.

Chad, I should add that, if you haven't had a chance to compare to "that other" driver yet, I have one sitting here at the moment...

C

[Chad Kuypers]

Any chance you'll develop an XBL^2 coaxial kit similar to the HE series in the near future?

If people really want a product and there is real demand for it, I will make it happen. Period. I do have some plans along this line already. More will be revealed as things move forward. There are also lot of other drivers in the works already, beyond the initial four subwoofers being offered. They are just the beginning. The website will have some of this info when it goes up.

I should add that, if you haven't had a chance to compare to "that other" driver yet, I have one sitting here at the moment...

I already ran that comparison, and the results were quite shocking... :twisted: The guy who lent me the "other driver" for the test will be posting his results when he gets both drivers sent back to him. :T

[david teltschik]

New to the thread...but love what I see so far.

Evening all. My name is David and I've read up on your thread over the past few months. I really do like the look of the drivers i've seen and enjoyed the banter of fellow audio nuts. Can someone please point me in the direction of these speakers however?

I"m debating on what driver to buy for my new christmas sub project to build after christmas. I've been looking at the Tumult, Auraound drivers and must say that i LOVE the aurasound driveers in the MDesign godfather subwoofer i've listened to at length. How would you say these drivers compare to the aurasound 15" driver?

[ThomasW]

There's a link to Chad's homepage in post #108 in this thread. So far the website isn't online.

The MDesign subs are interesting looking. I must say I find the $5000 price tag a bit preposterous.

Although we've been offered some AuraSound drivers, we've found no compelling reason to get them given what's available for significantly less money.

[david teltschik]

Suggestions?

I just said that I loved the Aurasound driver in the godfather sub. They have an awesome sound. I'd NEVER pay that much for a sub...especially considering what you can build yourself now adays.

I would like to poll the thread and see what people think. What is the BEST driver I can buy for $500 or less?

I, like most audiophiles, am a subscriber that there is no substitute for a big box, large driver for real bass, but there does come a point where...yes...i'm saying it....size does matter. Right now my current sub is a bandpass enclosure of roughtly 8 cubic feet. This is a large box! I have been happy with the sub for a long time, but since i've started listening to more movies lately, it's been bottoming during movie "effects" at times. This is driving me nuts!

I got the upgrade bug and plan on doing something over the holidays. What can you all suggest as far as drivers go? I'd like to be in the 15-18" size for them as well......love the look of the old 1808's

[ThomasW]

This is a thread about Chad's drivers. So a poll should be a new thread.

What you're going to get with a poll is primarily a situation where people that haven't actually compared anything post their optinions, and that IMO is of very limited value.

I know there is one comparison between Chad's big 15" and a Tumult, done by a Tumult owner. That info will be posted at some point in time.

In that price range there really aren't any 'bad' modern drivers, just differing schools of thought on driver design and construction. So perhaps a better poll might be comparing and contrasting various driver design theories.

Yes exotic cone materials look really cool. But for subwoofer use in the real world, they offer almost no significant advantage, and add quite a bit to the final cost.

[CJ Paul]

Any news?

[ThomasW]

The Atlas drivers are in house and ready to be sold. There was a slight production delay since the spider was changed in the Avalanche series, so production was delayed by a week.

I imagine that the 'store' will open next week.

[CJ Paul]

Which one is the Atlas? Is that the "small 12-inch" Also, refresh our memories. At some point in this thread it was mentioned that there will be multiple drivers eventually, in "small" and "big" (i.e. ultra? high excursion). So eventually there will be a small 12, a small 15 and then a large 12, 15, and 18? Is that even close to right?

[Evil Twin]

The Atlas series are a "small" 20 mm Xmax 12" and 15".

There will be a "large" 15" and 18" - not so sure about "large" 12".

I'll be evaluating the Atlas 12's pretty soon, as a candiate for the dipole woofer elements in the upcoming "Saint-Saens" project- this is a dipole speaker which will use RD50 in the midrange, Fountek JP2 on the top end, and Extremis 6 midwoofers (if they ever get here!

The current plan is for two of the Atlas series 12's on each side, though that's more of a startign point; will probably be expanded to 4; I'm considering a "modular" enclosure approach, in either H frame or W frame.

~Jon

[CJ Paul]

Wow, thanks for the info. 20mm Xmax on the "SMALL" 12s? That's good news for me. I'll be putting an IB in my new house and have had access to a model home to take measurement. I'm going to put it in the space between two floors but I will not have enough height to vertically baffle-mount 15" drivers. If these Atlases have a 20mm xmax that would give them a Vd closer to an avearge 15 (like a parts express IB 15") than a most 12" subs. Depending on what Sd is... or course.

[Evil Twin]

Well, I'm pretty "jazzed" about them; when it comes to LF drivers, I think it's about balance overall; cost, Xmax/swept volume, distortion, and sensitivity.


The Atlas series have a nice cone and suspension design, with good swept area (Sd), unlike some other under $200 12's I've seen with LESS Xmax and a pretty impressive looking foam roll, but not the same swept volume.





Calling this 12 the "small" driver is like saying an H2 is a "small Hummer"- still, it's a pretty good size, with a lot of capabilities, and nothing wimpy in construction.



I think it's a very good balance overall, and the first new 12" woofer that I think can give the TC2+ (my existing favorite) a run for the money.

[ThomasW]

Evil Twin must have a vision problem through the black mask.

The Xmax for the Atlas series is 18mm, the Avalanche have 27mm Xmax :wink:

All the drivers have XBL^2 technology. The Atlas series have 6" diameter magnets. The Avalanche have 9" magnets

12" Atlas $165
15" Atlas $180
15" Avalanche $329
18" Avalanche $399

[Evil Twin]

What's a crummy two millimeters among friends?

[CJ Paul]

Will the full TS parameters be published when the website comes online?

[Evil Twin]

Judging by the "alpha" version of the web site which some of us have seen, and data relayed by Chad already, Yes.

The Atlas series have the configurable voice coils, so the T/S parameters are dependent on the chosen configuration. This way, one driver can cover ported configurations, sealed box, and IB/Dipole. That's pretty much a first.

[Dennis H]

Haven't adjustable TS params been a feature of DVC drivers since the days of yore when yak foreskins were the material of choice? Sounds more like variations on a theme than anything really new but what the heck do I know?

[JonMarsh]

Chad's Atlas series drivers use asymmetric voice coil arrangements, and seem to be able to get a wider range of T/S than for conventional DVC drivers.

[ThomasW]

Driver info is now listed in the products section of the website.

http://www.ascendantaudio.com/Products.htm

[JonMarsh]

Cool... looks like Chad is making progress on the web site- and given the changes, our first peek was definitely an alpha, not a beta.

~Jon