MTMs for my brother this time!

[PMazz]

Aw Tom, I'd hate to burst his bubble...

Besides, he's very happy with them regardless of sound. He owns Bose because of name recognition. It doesn't have to be quality, just a fancy label that other misinformed label chasers recognize. :roll:

Pete

[Hank]

put 2 of the cubes on the back of the top shelf in a piece of furniture and the other 3 strewn around his ceiling

:rofl: What a funny description of meticulous, trial-and-error, measured and tested audiophile speaker placement! "...strewn around..." - I love it. :T

he probably looks at my stuff and thinks I'm crazy

Yeah, crazy like a fox

[PMazz]

I got a chance to do some cutting today. May even get to some assembly tomorrow.

MTMs
Pete

[Ten 99]

For God's sake, Pete -- If you're going to do this, please stop using that cheap machinery and invest in some REAL tools. That playskool junk in the pictures is going to result in some very bad results.

[PMazz]

I was going to use my cordless Black & Decker but thought this way might be a tad quicker.

Pete

[JonMarsh]

There you go again, Pete, emphasizing speed over hand craftsmanship!

Yeah, that's the trouble with this country these days- hurry, hurry, hurry!

Jon

[PMazz]

Speed???? I could build a whole room full of cabinets in the time these will take! .......But these are a lot more fun!

Updates

Pete

[PMazz]

Got a couple of hours in today. The enclosures are now buttoned up.

Updates

Pete

[ThomasW]

What! Only one layer of MDF? :huh:

There are reputations to maintain here, nothing Jon designs is allowed too weigh less that 200lbs/box :wink:

[PMazz]

Well, since Jon won't be here to help me move them around, they'll just have to do as is.

Hell, they already feel that heavy anyway. Must be gettin old....

Pete

[Jerry Pease]

Pete, would it be safe to assume you don't shop at Home Depot for tools. WOW!

[PMazz]

I usually buy the big stuff at trade shows. Lots of big toys!

And I prefer Sears over HD for the small stuff, or ToolKing on the net.

Pete

[Hank]

;x(

What! Only one layer of MDF?

Pete, Pete, Pete, Thomas is correct. This is the forum of wretched excess, to be held in awe! AND, with the pro shop and power tools you have, you should top Jon and Thomas in layers, weight, # of cuts per minute :twisted: , etc.
I thought I wanted a hot blonde until I saw your over-the-top cabinet saw. :B ;x( :drool:

[Dennis H]

Cabinet shops are for wimps. Real men build speakers with a chainsaw and a pocket knife.

[Jerry Pease]

chainsaw and pocket knifes??? Got any pics???

[ThomasW]

I just use my teeth .......... :yeah:

[PMazz]

Carbide?

Pete

[Jerry Pease]

hell, since everyone is bragging I once used a butter knife.

[Paul H]

.. waiting for Monty Python to kick in with their "we had to live in the street in a cardboard box .. you had a box - luccckkkay"

Paul

[TacoD]

What is it, why have people out of the U.S. a tool shed full of saws and stuff ? .

[PMazz]

Got a chance to mill the trim for the base and cut up the veneer (which looks kinda crappy in the pics).

Updates

Pete

[Ten 99]

Now dangit Pete! Quit watching the football games, and make some more progress pics for us to see -- after we're finished watching the games.

[PMazz]

Nope, more like I took a break from real work to have some semblance of progress on this project.

I talked to my brother last nite. He's been planning on bringing up a bushel of crabs and it's set for 1st weekend in October. He kind of thought the speakers would be done by then. I broke the bad news..... He couldn't use them yet anyway as the house is still only a shell.

Football???? The Eagles don't play till monday . Should be a good game, but these days I need a nap to say up that late.

Pete

[JonMarsh]

Any more progress, Pete?


(yeah, why am I, king of procrastination and delays, bugging you?

~Jon

[PMazz]

No. Unfortunately Hurricane Jeanne dumped a bunch of rain on us and my family room took on some water. Carpet and some furniture is shot and we're still drying out. Haven't had time to even think about speakers.

The only bright side is this will move up plans for the entertainment center that I've been putting off for a decade or so.....

Now I'm in the process of researching front projectors, as I want to incorporate a pull-down/out screen into the unit. I've also been sitting on 4 AV12s to incorporate into the soffit above the unit (AKA SoffitSub), along with a center channel.

Once the FEMA inspector has a look at the damage, I'm going to install the platform and SoffitSub.....But I still have to figure out the screen gizmo.....and finish the MTMs....and build the LAs into some decorative columns.....

Fun, fun, fun!

Pete

[JonMarsh]

Quite the busy guy, these days! But I bet you'll really enjoy it when you get it all done!

That's what keeps me going on all these projects- the "high" I get when they're finished and usually/sometimes work pretty much the way I'd hoped!

~Jon

[theirishgonzo]

i am going to be bulding these soon. a full 7/9.1 setup not sure yet. i have a few questons.
the braceing can i do a strip braceing or os the other type better. is a single layer of 3/4 mdfb good or do i need 2? what is the differents between the m8n and the m8a and what is the differance between the vifa xt25tg xt25sc

and 1 final queston what is the cost per speaker in conponets everything expet the mdfb cost for a tm and a mtm?



thanks bryan

[ThomasW]

Hi Bryan,

The cabinets should be made from doubled 3/4" material or if you have access to the material use 1" like Pete used.

If you build the boxes like Pete did, then the strip bracing is fine. If you build them like Paul or Tibor use their style of bracing. The goal is to have a very stiff box that doesn't vibrate.

The difference in the woofers is that one has a cast frame, the other has a stamped steel frame. We suggest using the cast frame version since it's a little more rugged.

The tweeter you want to use is PE number 264-555
The woofer is PE part number 297-447.

When you buy these drivers please use the click-through PE banner ads on this forum. We didn't chose these drivers because they were sold by PE. We chose them because they were the best for the job. It helps support this forum if you use the click-through ads as opposed to just putting PE's URL in a browser

Final cost sort of depends on which crossover building method you use. Assembling the big caps from clusters of smaller caps from Madisound cuts the cap cost in 1/2. For a MTM version you're looking at approx $370 with the cluster caps. The primary cost savings with the TM is from only buying one woofer as opposed to two. The crossover cost doesn't drop much.

You certainly don't want to use the TM design for anything other than the side speakers for 7.1.

[theirishgonzo]

thanks i will be getting the stuff in 3 weeks.

[PMazz]

Well I finally made some more progress in the last couple of days. Since Jon was getting so much done lately I didn't want to look bad .

I originally was going to use rift cut white oak veneer but my brother decided he liked the look of a deep red on cherry. Note to self: don't show samples of work to relatives..... So, after ordering some plain sliced cherry veneer we were back in business. After a couple days of putzing I got them veneered and "aged" to that antique cherry dark patina using the old combo of a water/lye solution. Maybe tomorrow I'll be able to add the plinth molding and rub on a coat or two of Watco. I'll update the pics when I get more done.

Pete

[JonMarsh]

I'll look forward to seeing the results of your efforts!

And redouble mine! :rofl:

[Ten 99]

Pete, I'm glad he switched. I am not fond of red oak at all, but white oak at least can look very respectable, especially when it is cut correctly. Cherry (to me) looks nicer, and I think can blend in with more.

For those of you who may be reading this, and don't know it, the Lye solution will work with Mahogony as well, and it basically speeds up the aging process and brings out a lot of what the UV rays would normally do over more time (to deepen the coloring). Be cautious, because lye can be a bit dangerous to work with. If you'd rather take a safer way of doing this, Sodium Carbonate works too. Sodium Carbonate does not do quite as good of a job, but it also is much less caustic.

[Brian Bunge]

Hey Pete, make sure you post some pics of that finish. I've never heard of doing that to give cherry that aged look. I like "antique cherry" and would love to see if your finish fits my concept of that.

P.S. I think I'm about to order some RS 7's.....

[Ten 99]

A bit more on finishing...

Pete, I appologize for the hijacking your thread. But I thought this might be a good fit considering the finishing topic.

This is a good link to some information on chemicals that can be used to color or age wood. This actually comes off of Jeff Jewitt's website. This guys really knows his stuff about wood finishing. Here is a link to some books that Jeff has written on finishing. Just something that someone might be interested in browsing through, finding on half.com, or maybe checking out from their local library.

Again, I appologize for the hijacking...

Now, back to waiting to see Pete's work in some photos!

[PMazz]

Yea, I prefer cherry myself, but he originally wanted a straight grained lighter finish. Oh well, I got a good price on the cherry.

Brian, I think I took some before after pics, but the topcoat hasn't been applied yet. I actually tinted some Watco with Red Mahogany stain to deepen it a little more. The downside of the lye solution is having the water raise the grain, and if used in excess, opening the veneer.

Pete

[Brian Bunge]

Ten,

I actually have one of Jeff's books. There's a pic in there with some info. on that type of finish but not quite the "step by step" style I'd prefer. My dad and I do pretty good veneer work but we're still newbies with the whole custom dye thing.

Pete,

Oak...blech!

[PMazz]

I updated the page with some pics.

MTM Construction

Brian, I'm on the road tomorrow but when I get back to the shop Friday I'll write up something and take some pics of the process. The tedious part is getting the solution to the right strength.

Pete

[Brian Bunge]

Pete,

Got 4 RS 7's ordered! Now I just have to decide whether to use the 27TDFC or wait for that non-existant RS tweeter!

Is that last pic before the final lacquer or poly finishing? If so, I can't wait to see the final look. Great work as always!

[Ten 99]

Pete, the pics look great. I'm w/ Brian. Can't wait to see the final pics of the cabinets with the finish. Before I clicked on the smaller thumbnail where the Mahogany stain had been applied, I was afraid that some of that nice Cherry figure would be lost underneath the stain. I was happy to see that it wasn't. Once your finish is placed on the cabinets, that figure will pop very nicely. I think your brother will be VERY happy with the quality of the cabinets.

BTW, what are you using for a finish? Lacquer, Poly, a varnish? Are you looking for a shiny deep finish, or a more satin subdued look? If you don't already have ideas on how you're going to do it, and are looking for suggestions, just ask. I don't know if you have spraying equipment to shoot a high gloss lacquer or not.

Thanks a lot for sharing the pictures. It's what makes sharing the "ride" of your efforts fun for all of us.

[Dennis H]

Ten, Pete's a professional cabinet maker and has a shop (including a spray booth) many of us would kill for.

[PMazz]

Brian, no topcaots have been applied yet. I will probably shoot a couple coats of lacquer on them.

Ten, Yea, I didn't want to hide any grain and the stain was added sparingly. As I said to Brian, probably 40 sheen lacquer. I'm not going to do a high build, but I'll make that decision when I'm spraying. Sometimes certain pieces just scream out for more coats . I'm making some other pieces for them too.A TV base and a sub/end table, and thought a low luster, low build finish would be the best route. When I do these kinds of projects, I tend to make it up as I go. Breaks up the monotony.

I'm always open to ideas/suggestions tho.

Pete

[Ten 99]

Ahhhhh... <slaps self in the head> ... that would explain some of that nice machinery I saw in the background of some of those pics.

I thought maybe you just had a good hookup with a friend that worked in a shop or something. Makes perfect sense now.

Heck, you should be sharing tips with me, not the other way around. ops:

Pete, do you shoot with a conversion gun, or a turbine setup for your finishes?

[PMazz]

We use a standard pressure pot setup. In fact, I'm in the process of researching HVLP guns to work with our PP system. Binks Mach I is one of them. Also thinking about top feed cup guns, instead of the pot. Supposedly everyone raves about them. Have you worked with any of them?

Pete

[Paul H]

Pete,

I've got a top-feed Campbell Hausfeld that sells for about $120US IIRC. It's intended for light-medium finishes only (no latex paint for this one!) and I run it comfortably off of a 25gal 1.5hp compressor.

For my purposes, "heavy duty home use" it's a great sprayer which I'd recommend to anyone.

For production purposes I'd be concerned about hand fatigue with the (of course) top heavy gun. The other noticeable issue is when spraying at odd angles, for example upwards inside a cabinet, the gun quickly runs out of lacquer and dry sprays can easily result.

Paul

[PMazz]

I stopped by my supplier yesterday and bought a Graco pressure feed HVLP gun to hook up to our pressure pot system. I'll probably go in today and shoot my brothers speakers and play around with it while the shop's empty.

I was worried that a top feed would be kind of cludgy for some of the things we spray. Besides, the PP sytem is so easy to maintain that it's really a non issue. I cut the dip tube down a little so we're able to simply sit a gallon can of material right into the pot. When you're done spraying, you take it out and replace it with some thinner in another can, spray into the first can (without atomization) to clean out the line until thinner appears, and leave it that way until the next time. For shops that spray a lot of different materials in a given day, a top feed is ideal, but for us it didn't make sense.

Pete