Ok no more talk about equivalency!

[NWLanding]

Ok, I learned that there’s likely a better way to nudge me in the right direction than approaching it with a poorly formed equivalency question. On the bright side I have managed to establish contact with a couple of local enthusiasts. So I’ll likely be able to audition some DIY builds that will give me a point of reference.

At someone’s suggestion I’m going to give context and info that may help others guide me in the right direction.
Listening Area:



This pic is very generalized but hopefully conveys the layout of our 18’ x 15’ family room. The 18’ length is along the fireplace wall. The 15’ direction extends towards a bar height counter in the adjacent kitchen. Your basic open concept. The wall that is partially shown in the lower left corner of the pic has two windows that are adjacent to a 6’ sliding glass door in the direction of the kitchen. The extremely generalized speakers and component console is where our existing TV and AV system is (the speakers are not that close to the wall). There are two Stressless chairs in front of the windows and there’s a sofa facing the fireplace 7’ feet away.

Music Interests
I enjoy listening to a fairly wide range of music that includes delta blues, jazz (Diana Krall to Wynton Marsalis), new age, electronica, folk/folk rock, rock, alternative and classical.
I like to experience the detail of voice and instrument, I like to feel like I’m enveloped in the sound. I occasionally listen at moderately loud levels, but hate distortion. I’m not a big fan of overly accentuated low frequency boom, boom, boom. I like warm sounding music if that makes sense. I’m loosing my hearing in the higher frequencies and miss being able to hear the sound of triangles hanging in the air or detail cymbals. I know I’ve heard overly bright speakers that I don’t like or really harsh fatiguing sound. I listen to music in pure or direct mode unless we’re entertaining and then may uses 5.1.

Theater
Our music to theater/TV listening is about 60/40. I enjoy the drama surround sound can provide but I’d say my music listening experience is more important.
Existing Equipment
Our music collection is managed on my HTPC in lossless format (FLAC) and managed and played using J River Media Center > USB connection to Music Fidelity V-DACII > analog connection to Onkyo TX-NR808 > Adcom GFA5400 > Polk Audio TSi400 front, Polk Audio CS-10 > Bose Acoustimass surround mounted near the ceiling above the windows.
Budget
I’d like to do something in the $600-$800 price range. Eventually expanding to replace the center and surrounds.
Skill Level
I’ve been doing woodworking (cabinetry and furniture) for 30 years (non-pro but advanced) I have a complete shop setup. I did build a pair of speakers 20+ years ago so I have some experience soldering.
So, is this information more helpful in soliciting suggestions for the options I should consider for a DIY speaker project? Questions? Clarification?

[cjd]

Excellent way to frame the inquiry!

Size and placement are probably the next two key questions: how close to boundaries (walls, cabinets, etc.) will these be? How big?

How loud is "moderately loud" ?

Though I am, of course, biased I think that you would appreciate the specific "voice" that I reportedly give my speakers - something that was perhaps in question previously. That doesn't get you any closer to finding a design you want to build, of course. Probably on the "analytical" side of accurate - nice for well recorded classical with layers of detail; a bit painful for poorly recorded rock.

Among the stuff I've done, the Garnacha is a close match in size to the Polks with another 10Hz on the low end. They do reasonably well tucked near walls, though there is some low end bloom in this case - not quite as well suited to near-wall as the Khanspire, which is bigger... really clean with a little room to breathe. Still don't require as much room around as the Statements. They'll go loud and take a beating and still hold together on Mahler's 8th. or van halen. Or whatever.

But there are so many superb designs out there and I just can't speak to them all.

[NWLanding]

Size and Placement

Size and placement are probably the next two key questions: how close to boundaries (walls, cabinets, etc.) will these be? How big?

This is likely my biggest constraint. Currently my TSi400s are about 16" out from the back wall and separated by about 4'. Both are forced to be about 6" away from the component rack. The right speaker is more open on the side, about 8'. The left however is only about 20" from built-in cabinetry to it's left side. My wife thought the TSi400s were big when I brought them home. But I have a little 'capital' to negotiate something a little bigger, particularly if I bring some classy cabinet detailing to bear.

How loud is "moderately loud" ?

The Onkyo OSD reads around 70-75 when I think it's moderately loud.

I had been looking at the Mini Statements. How would you think they'd match up with my environment and stated music interests?

Thanks for taking the time to contribute!

[cjd]

I haven't heard any of the Statements, so my thoughts on those are moot. Many people rave about them using words and descriptions that leave me vaguely skeptical, but Curt does superb work, so... yeah. No idea if you'd like them, but any of the open back (mid) models would probably find the spacing to be less than needed. If you can move them out from the equipment rack, you might sneak by on spacing (more distance between would help regardless.)

I really try NOT to be in the business of speaking to designs other than my own, but do want to say again: there are many superb designs out there to choose from - in the end, YOU will have to make the choice. So what I can do is try to share more to help illuminate what things might help you make that choice, and I tend to do that through descriptions of my own stuff.

Spacing is good (or even more than needed) for most of the RS designs I've done - almost identical to the home the Garnacha found. You haven't mentioned a sub, but if you aren't looking to add one I would very much recommend a 3-way. That goes a long way to keeping clean articulate midrange when there is some bass around.

I suspect the (in-progress) Nebbiolo I'm working on might be ideal - hoping to find some of that comforting papery warmth without sacrificing any accuracy or detail. No idea if that cabinet would work for you. Where might this take you? Zaph has a great little waveguide TMM using the same Seas. His Revelator stuff would also be good, though not sure it'll hit the budget. Wander down the paths, take your time... you'll figure it out.

[NWLanding]

Thanks cjd, you're giving me some good stuff to think about. I tried to search for the Garnacha but it seemed like the design was interspersed throughout threads, am I looking in the wrong place? Is the design consolidated in one place or do I just need to knuckle down and do some work?

When I first started engaging on doing some research on DIY speakers I read up on the Zaph line, but I got a little concerned when I read some comments about them being a little dark. I'd like to listen to the Revelator. I'm not opposed to doubling my budget if I fall in love with something.

I just took a peak at your Nebbiolo project. It warrants more than a peak!

One of my tasks is to develop an understanding of where I can push the boundaries on existing designs and personalize with my own flare. I've got some ideas bouncing around in my head like marquetry, relief carving, mixed media (patinated copper), etc. I've also got a Greene & Greene theme going in our house for cabinetry, so that's an option.

hoping to find some of that comforting papery warmth without sacrificing any accuracy or detail.

You nailed the description of what I want!!

I do have the luxury of time. I've got to finish up my kitchen cabinets and build a couple pieces of furniture, so it will likely be this fall before I commit.

Thanks

[joeybutts]

NW, where are you located?

[cjd]

Garnacha thread

I'm wrapping up design info and such, but it's there in the thread.

Joey: you answered your own question when you typed it. NW is... in the NW US. Puget Sound area.

[BeerParty]

One of my tasks is to develop an understanding of where I can push the boundaries on existing designs and personalize with my own flare. I've got some ideas bouncing around in my head like marquetry, relief carving, mixed media (patinated copper), etc. I've also got a Greene & Greene theme going in our house for cabinetry, so that's an option.

You have a lot of flexibility when building the cabinets for a DIY design, but there are some things that you should NOT change. If you want to deviate from the published design I would suggest you post a drawing or render and ask for feedback.

There are no absolute rules, but in general:

• use the drivers specified by the design
• keep the internal volume of the cabinet the same
• keep the front baffle width the same
• keep the driver spacing and location on the baffle the same

Minor changes (less than 10%) are usually OK, but it is always better to ask before you start cutting wood. Beyond that, your imagination is your only limitation.

Good luck with your build. With a little skill and all the help available here I'm sure you will be thrilled with whatever design you choose.

[---k---]

This is likely my biggest constraint. Currently my TSi400s are about 16" out from the back wall and separated by about 4'. !

Just FYI and to clarify...

I'm not sure if 16" is the distance between the wall and the back of the speaker or the distance from the wall to the front of the speaker. But, -and it has been stated many many times- the statements require atleast 12" preferable 16" to 18" between the wall and the back of the speaker.

Khans like to be placed with ~4" to 6" between the wall and the back of the speaker.

These days, if I had to do it over, I could see myself building the Garnasha, with a pair of reasonable size subs. The Khan's are overkill... but overkill is fun and everyone who see them is impressed and tells my wife what a saint she is (which of course is appreciated).

[NWLanding]

I live...

NW, where are you located?

Just north of Olympia Washington.

[NWLanding]

Build Constraints

Beyond that, your imagination is your only limitation.

These sideboards make sense. Good idea on soliciting a review. Once I land on which build I want I'll ask for a review of any significant deviations using a Sketchup image.

Thanks

[NWLanding]

Clearance

I'm not sure if 16" is the distance between the wall and the back of the speaker or the distance from the wall to the front of the speaker.

I was referencing between the back of the speaker and the wall and I could easily increase the distance to 18"

These days, if I had to do it over, I could see myself building the Garnasha, with a pair of reasonable size subs. The Khan's are overkill... but overkill is fun and everyone who see them is impressed and tells my wife what a saint she is (which of course is appreciated).

HeHeHe It's a wonder our wives/partners put up with our obsessions! Hopefully it's what makes us interesting right?

I'm going to be soaking up the info on the Garnacha project tonight.

Hey, on a separate note (should I make this a separate post?). I'm curious whether selecting a TM, MTM, etc design can provide a strategy/benefit/mitigation for room conditions (like being so close into the corner).

Thanks ---k---

[NWLanding]

Oops

[QUOTE=NWLanding
Hey, on a separate note (should I make this a separate post?). I'm curious whether selecting a TM, MTM, etc design can provide a strategy/benefit/mitigation for room conditions (like being so close into the corner).[/QUOTE]

I just noticed that fboy replied to my OP (Equivalency?) that gets at this question.

[AdelaaR]

HeHeHe It's a wonder our wives/partners put up with our obsessions! Hopefully it's what makes us interesting right?

What I did to be able to have complete freedom wife-wise when it comes to speakers is this:

When we bought our house and made plans to rebuild it, I chose one room to be "my" room and I told her that it would become a theatre/studio/computer/music room.
In return, she chose one room to be "her" room, which will become a sewing/drawing/painting/art room.
Obviously we can both use each other's rooms when we want to, but the patron of the room is the only one who gets to design it and who gets the final word.
:T

[---k---]

Hey, on a separate note (should I make this a separate post?). I'm curious whether selecting a TM, MTM, etc design can provide a strategy/benefit/mitigation for room conditions (like being so close into the corner).

Thanks ---k---

I'm not a fan of a bunch of simultaneous threads going. If Thomas was around he would have already put the smack down on you and merged your threads.

I like a MTM. Obviously CJD and JonMarsh does too. I haven't had the problems with the ones I've listed to as reported above.