Starting a Mini Statements build soon

[Drew_V]

Be careful, what has to go through the hole is really 5" x ~2"

You're right, that's why the fat caps are in the center

The biggest issue I might have is trying to attach the wires along the one side of the board, then trying to fit that through the hole, as the wires might catch on the cutout. I certainly don't want to attach the driver leads AFTER putting the board into the cabinet, that would just be a pain.

I may need to make minor modifications along the way, but I think it should be fine overall. I like the idea of having only one board to work with rather than try to connect two boards together inside the cabinet.

[AdelaaR]

Definately a good idea.
Personally I'm still thinking about making a completely seperate compartment but if you can fit 'em all on one board and get that through the hole it'll save you the hassle of having to attach three boards.

[vettett15]

Looks good so far, I am in the process of finishing my mini statement cabinets and crossovers. Aren't those inductors a little close together though, according to http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/coils.htm at least.

[Drew_V]

Inductors L0011 and L1011 are both "vertical" coils, and the other two are laying "horizontally". L3011 and L0011 are rotated 90 degrees on axis relative to each other, as are the other two, so I think they can be positioned that close (see Troels' page, figure 5). As far as L3011 and L4021 are concerned, they're both flat, but are approximately 16cm apart (see Troels' page, between figures 1 and 2). I'm hoping this is sufficient.

I've seen other folks here who have their inductors closer together and haven't heard of a problem. I really feel I'll be okay.

[Drew_V]

Just got the Fountek ribbon tweeters in. I'm assuming that the RED is the POSITIVE terminal and the BLUE is the NEGATIVE terminal, correct??

There are no other markings and there is no datasheet that came with the tweeters (which I actually find surprising).

[john trials]

Just got the Fountek ribbon tweeters in. I'm assuming that the RED is the POSITIVE terminal and the BLUE is the NEGATIVE terminal, correct??

There are no other markings and there is no datasheet that came with the tweeters (which I actually find surprising).

Correct...Red is positive on the Fountek.

[Drew_V]

And here I am with yet another question for my build....


I can't seem to find 1/2" MDF anywhere in my area. I can get 3/4", which is fine for the majority of the cabinet, but for the front baffle doubler, I need 1/2" thickness.

My question is: would I be able to just use two layers of 3/4" MDF for the front baffle? I'm not sure how it would affect the chamfer on the backside of the driver cutouts. Would I need to chamfer the holes deeper? Are there any other issues that I would run into?

Another option would be to pick up some 1/2" particleboard or plywood and use that for the doubler. I'm not crazy about using particleboard, though. I suppose plywood would be a better choice.

[vettett15]

Drew,

No Home Depot in the area?, everyone I've been to has had 1/2" MDF, do you have a "84 Lumber" store around, I was able to get 1.25" thick MDF which I used for my mini Statements.

[Silver1omo]

I have seen some notes in gluing hard/plywood to MDF, some with happy endings, some not... So I guess it will depend on a lot of things (glue, humidity change in your area, seasonal change, etc). But I think that you may find some nice ply and use it, so you won't need to veneer :P

http://www.ellisaudio.com/hardwood.htm

[Drew_V]

Not sure where you're finding MDF at Home Depot.... even on their website they only list two sizes (3/4" and 1/4"), both in 2x4 foot "Handi-Panels" for around $10 each. I don't recall seeing any in stock at my local stores.

My local Lowe's has a really nice quality 3/4" MDF sheet... for $30 each. Unreal pricing.

I'll check out 84 Lumber, I guess. I'm running out of ideas. Never thought it would be this hard to find MDF...

[BOBinGA]

Every HD I've ever been to has 1/2" MDF. They have it precut in 2X4 and 2X2 ft sheets over on the plywood aisle. Its usually in bins with precut pegboard and plywood and its cheap - $4 or 5 for a 2X4 sheet. Look harder - its there.

-Bob

[john trials]

And here I am with yet another question for my build....


I can't seem to find 1/2" MDF anywhere in my area. I can get 3/4", which is fine for the majority of the cabinet, but for the front baffle doubler, I need 1/2" thickness.

My question is: would I be able to just use two layers of 3/4" MDF for the front baffle? I'm not sure how it would affect the chamfer on the backside of the driver cutouts. Would I need to chamfer the holes deeper? Are there any other issues that I would run into?

Another option would be to pick up some 1/2" particleboard or plywood and use that for the doubler. I'm not crazy about using particleboard, though. I suppose plywood would be a better choice.

I made my Statement CC baffle with two 3/4" sheets of MDF, just because that's what I had left over. I chamfered the rear of the mids and woofers extra deep to compensate. The volume of the enclosure remains pretty much the same. If you can't find 1/2" MDF, just work with the 3/4".

[Drew_V]

Would I have any luck planing the 3/4" down to 1/2" thickness? Is it worth it? Would I "ruin" anything by planing it down? I mean, it seems like the outer surfaces are "treated"... sealed and very smooth. But I could be wrong. Is MDF "uniform" throughout?

I could certainly try to chamfer the 3/4" extra deep, but I'm not sure what that might do to the sound.

Another option would be to create false recesses around the driver cutouts in the back of the extra-thick front baffle so that the area immediately surrounding the cutouts was 1/2" thick. Maybe make the recesses an inch or two wide all around the cutouts?

[Jim Holtz]

Would I have any luck planing the 3/4" down to 1/2" thickness? Is it worth it? Would I "ruin" anything by planing it down? I mean, it seems like the outer surfaces are "treated"... sealed and very smooth. But I could be wrong. Is MDF "uniform" throughout?

I could certainly try to chamfer the 3/4" extra deep, but I'm not sure what that might do to the sound.

Another option would be to create false recesses around the driver cutouts in the back of the extra-thick front baffle so that the area immediately surrounding the cutouts was 1/2" thick. Maybe make the recesses an inch or two wide all around the cutouts?

No worries. Just add a 1/4" to the depth and be sure the mid is scalloped out extremely well so it doesn't "tunnel" the back of the driver. If you do that, sound will not be impacted at all.

Jim

[Drew_V]

I think I'm going with the false recess idea on the back of the baffle. Cut the recess 1/4" deep about 2 inches around the cutout, then chamfer the driver cutout to the standard depth.


EDIT: Hmm, I just thought of something... if I add a recess to the mid driver hole, it won't glue up properly to the mid tunnel, since there will be gaps all around the 5-inch square tunnel where it meets the front baffle. By design, the outer edge of the 1/2-inch chamfer is sized to just fit into the square tunnel opening. Soooo... maybe the next step is to try to find some 1/4" material and just use two layers.

[john trials]

I think I'm going with the false recess idea on the back of the baffle. Cut the recess 1/4" deep about 2 inches around the cutout, then chamfer the driver cutout to the standard depth.

When I built all of my Statements, I kept the two baffle pieces separate while building (I didn't glue the two pieces together...I eventually glued one piece to the enclosure first, then the 'outer' baffle piece gets glued to the 'inner' one). On the inner baffle piece, I'd flush trim the mid opening to the tunnel (basically the mid cutout on the inner baffle piece is 5" square). On the outer baffle piece, I'd chamfer the woofer fairly deeply, then match the outer diameter of this chamfer on the inner baffle for the through hole.

Hopefully these photos help...my verbal description is probably lacking!

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php?p=468316&postcount=13

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php?p=466047&postcount=3

I don't know if this helps you, but it's a method that worked well for all 5 of my Statements.

[Drew_V]

Well, well, well. I paid a visit to a Home Depot across town and they have some 1/2" stock of their "Handi-Panels" (only 2x4 size). But for the front baffles, I only need a 2x4 panel, so I should be good to go.

Unfortunately, they don't look like "real" MDF. They're more particle board-ish than anything. But since they're only being used for added front baffle thickness, I figure I can use them just fine.

[Drew_V]

I've decided on the finish for my speakers. It will be a Lamin-Art HPL product with a glossy woodgrain finish. Here is the pattern:



I received some sample cards from them and the actual laminate is much prettier than the picture (which is usually the case). It's also a bit darker overall. Very rich looking.

Anyways, I was originally just going to laminate the front and sides of the speaker with square corners (eliminating the front vertical edge roundovers), but now I have another idea.....

... laminating the edges square, and THEN cutting roundovers on the vertical edges. The exposed radiused edges of the MDF would then be painted gloss black (which is what I'm going to do on the back panel anyway). So the speaker would be woodgrain throughout the visible surfaces, with vertical black "bars" along the sides of the front face. I actually think it would look pretty slick, but I'm interested in other people's opinions before I do something radical like this.

I wish I had access to a nice graphics program where I could make a quick mockup on the computer to see what this would look like first.

[Drew_V]

Anyone?

[DeathMonk]

You could always do chamfers like I did here:



Also, Assuming that stuff is pliable, just wrap around the side>baffle>side. if you want roundovers.

[baniels]

Anyone?

I think it would look sharp, if done right. I don't know what the laminart substrate looks like, but I assume you could paint that black as you do the mdf that shows through.

This is very rough, but it might help you visualize.

[Drew_V]

Dude, that's awesome. That's exactly what I was looking to do!

I really appreciate whatever time you spent drawing those up. Yes, I would imagine that the edges of the laminate could be painted over. The exposed edges would be only ~0.030" wide anyway, so it shouldn't be noticeable. I did run a Sharpie marker over the edges of a sample piece and it colored it nicely. I imagine the paint would stick just fine.

It will be a little extra work, and I'll have to be really careful doing the roundovers so I don't splinter the laminate veneer, but I think it'll be worth it in the end and it definitely does look sharp. Just like I pictured it. Plus, the black strips on the sides would break up the woodgrain and add some visual interest.

I like the chamfer idea, also, but I would have to either glue more laminate onto the chamfers or paint them, so it would be just about the same amount of work. I think I'd rather do the roundovers.

Thanks again for the images. Really helped me make my final decision.

[baniels]

Happy to help. It only took a couple minutes.

[Drew_V]

Well, just checked on some pricing for the 3/4" roundover bits. Around $45.... ouch. Did manage to find a Grizzly bit for $28 shipped, so maybe it's within reach.

Hmmm, I may end up with square edges after all.

[AdelaaR]

Yeah I was surprised at the price of routerbits also ^^
Until now I have been working with the standard bit that came with the router and I didn't realise these things can be that expensive!

[john trials]

If you really want rounded edges without paying for a bit: I was considering making the roundover on my Statements with quarter-round molding, but when I measured it at the hardware store, I found it was not uniform in size along a 5 foot strip. I also didn't have a large router, so I couldn't round the edges that way. So I chamfered the edges and sanded them round. It took about 1 hour per speaker, but it was easy, and very accurate. You might want to give it a try.

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php?p=469714&postcount=34

[Drew_V]

I also considered the chamfer-n-sand style of roundover. Doesn't have to be perfect, I guess. Might be worth a shot.

Nice job on your speakers. The finished roundover looks good. Gives me some hope.

[cobblepots]

I purchased the 3/4" router bit from MLCS woodworking at the recommendation of some forum members. $21 plus shipping. Worked VERY well on a number of projects.

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_round_over.html

Also, If you're going to paint a rounded over MDF section, make sure you seal it with a wood sealer and then use primer on top followed with a smooth sanding. Not doing this can make the finish very difficult to get uniform. End grain of MDF is like an open pore sponge!

Also, you might want to consider masking the corners and "building" up the surface with the primer and paint to evenly match the edges of the veneer to try and prevent an mismatch in depth from the veneer edge to the painted corner.

Good luck!

[Drew_V]

Still waiting on the woofers and for the weather to get nicer, as I have to cut all the wood outside. In the meantime, it occurs to me that it might be a good idea for me to "practice" on some smaller bookshelf speakers. I wouldn't want to mess up on the Minis, as I'm planning to put them in my formal living room.

So first, I'll be replacing my existing PC speakers with the new bookshelves and I think I've decided on the Modula MT design. Still have to do more research on it, though, but I think it's a good fit.

I may use a cheaper laminate from HD or Lowe's to finish the Modulas just to get some practice using it. Same goes for the waterborne enamel paint that I'm going to use for the rear baffle.

I have to be careful that I don't get involved in too many projects right up front, but I think this is the right path to take as far as learning goes.

[Drew_V]

Anyone know if the Modula MT can be made any smaller by using the new RS180 rather than the shielded version?

[Tavaftw]

You could always do chamfers like I did here:



Also, Assuming that stuff is pliable, just wrap around the side>baffle>side. if you want roundovers.

DeathMonk, this looks great and exactly what I want.
Can you please explain a little bit about the what you did for this finishing?

[Tavaftw]

I purchased the 3/4" router bit from MLCS woodworking at the recommendation of some forum members. $21 plus shipping. Worked VERY well on a number of projects.

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_round_over.html

Also, If you're going to paint a rounded over MDF section, make sure you seal it with a wood sealer and then use primer on top followed with a smooth sanding. Not doing this can make the finish very difficult to get uniform. End grain of MDF is like an open pore sponge!

Also, you might want to consider masking the corners and "building" up the surface with the primer and paint to evenly match the edges of the veneer to try and prevent an mismatch in depth from the veneer edge to the painted corner.

Good luck!

I only have a 1/4" router. The 1/2" round over bit is the largest one for this router. Will it be a very different look between 1/2" and 3/4" round over on the baffle?

[DeathMonk]

DeathMonk, this looks great and exactly what I want.
Can you please explain a little bit about the what you did for this finishing?

Transtint Red Mahogany over birch ply with a few coats of gloss poly. Nothing to it

[Tavaftw]

Transtint Red Mahogany over birch ply with a few coats of gloss poly. Nothing to it

Thanks for response. As I understand, the steps should be
1. Apply mahogany veneer over the MDF sides, leaving baffle and top as it is.
2. Apply a few coats of gloss poly directly on veneers?
3. Apply coats of primer and gloss black on baffle and top?
4. Buffing the surface with polishing compound.

Sorry to ask these stupid questions. I spray painted my car with metallic gray and clear before. It was primer, finishing coat and then clear coat. I don't know if it is the same process. What is this gloss poly? Is it for wood finishing only, which is some transparent?

If I were to go for a gloss black, it will be quite similar to car painting. But with veneer, should the paint be specially transparent that it can not block the veneer?

[DeathMonk]

The sides are birch plywood--no veneer, just edge banding on the raw edges. The black is actually a laminate.. I don't have the band offhand but you can find it in frodaddy's Statements build thread (I based my build off of his).

[cobblepots]

I only have a 1/4" router. The 1/2" round over bit is the largest one for this router. Will it be a very different look between 1/2" and 3/4" round over on the baffle?

It won't look too different. Really the biggest issue is getting veneer over a 1/2" bend which can be a pain. But if you're going the painted baffle route it should be OK. I'm not certain how much a 1/2" round over vs. a 3/4 will hamper sound quality but i suspect it is relatively small.

[1Michael]

Anyone know if the Modula MT can be made any smaller by using the new RS180 rather than the shielded version?

The general consensus appears to be yes.

[Drew_V]

Thanks.... But I've actually already switched to a smaller MT style speaker design that I've gotten the parts to build. Got the crossovers done and I'm just waiting for the weather to break so I can start cutting the MDF outdoors for the cabinets.

This pair of speakers is going to be a learning project so I can test out all the finishes (Laminart HPL and gloss black paint) that I intend to use for the Mini Statements. I've never actually used a router before, so that'll be a learning experience as well. I just don't want to mess up on my Minis, so I'm going to practice on these MT bookshelf speakers first.

Unfortunately, there is really no such thing as "cheap laminate". Everything costs around $3/sq. ft. So I'm just going to buy the actual stuff I plan to use, cut off some smaller pieces of it (I'll have some extra left over from the Minis), and use it for my bookshelf speakers. Turns out that finishing the cabinets is probably going to be a bigger hassle than actually building the speakers themselves.