Have finally decided to build the Statements...

[ChrisL]

Oh boy, this should keep me busy for a while. Can't wait to start this and at the same time a little hesitant knowing the perfectionist in me. They will probably take me forever for the finishing work. My last set of speakers I tried to finish (15 years ago I think), took foooreeever. I tried to get a piano black finish using spray cans and was never able to get them the way I wanted.

I now have a compressor and plan on getting a spray gun if I decide to paint. I may veneer though as it looks to be a bit easier to get better results.

I think I have read through every post on the various Statements builds over the past 2 weeks and am officially cross eyed now.

Apparently I woke up the other night and said in my sleep "Is the speaker working?" to my wife. I kid you not. I don't even remember doing this. She said "yes it is" and i went right back to sleep 8O

I am trying to decide on the sealed or Ported. I plan on building the Statement Center and a sub to go along with the mains. I have read all the posts about the pro's and con's of sealed vs ported, but there are a couple questions still unanswered in my mind before I make the decision.

1) I believe it has been suggested for the sealed, to cross it over at 50hz with the sub? My question is in stereo music, if you have one sub playing from 50hz down, would you lose the ability to tell where instruments are playing? Is 50hz low enough that you do not need to know the positioning of the instrument? I'm not sure if I am being clear enough. Let me put it another way. I believe one of the objectives of stereo, is to be able to put instruments through different speakers if needed. What happens if an instrument is playing in the left speaker, say, and it goes low enough that the sealed Statement can no longer produce the sound and that is now the job of the sub.

Wouldn't the sound then come out of the sub and you lose the purpose of the intended recording? Or is 50 hz low enough that it is no longer directional and it would be ok?

2) Do you lose anything at all (dynamics, etc), if I were to go sealed with sub? (it appears sealed is the way to go if you have a quality sub). Would there be any reason's at all why I would not want to choose this method as opposed to the ported version with a sub? I've never had a sub before so I don't have any experience how a good quality sub integrates for music. Is it too overpowering or it will be played the way the music was meant to be played?

I am going to be ordering all my parts for the Statements and the Center (as the ported and sealed use the same crossover) and hopefully you guys can convince me one way or another which way to go.

Chris.

[AdelaaR]

1) Yes, 50Hz and below is omnidirectional and one does not hear where it comes from ... this is the reason why many people place their subwoofers left or right of the screen when they do not have place in the middle because it doesn't matter.

2) I believe that an open baffle will always sound better than a sealed design because it does not restrict the flow of the driver by creating a vacuum and the resulting counterforces. I feel that an open baffle will allow the driver to float more freely and will thus create a more open sound in comparison to the sealed cabinet that will sound more muffled to my ears. This is ofcourse very personal.

Why would you want or need the sealed version?

[Curt C]

Apparently I woke up the other night and said in my sleep "Is the speaker working?" to my wife. I kid you not. I don't even remember doing this. She said "yes it is" and i went right back to sleep

Congratulations! You are now a card carrying member of the unofficial DIY Speakerbuilders of the World.

-I've solved some of my toughest speakerbuilding conundrums in my sleep...

1) I believe it has been suggested for the sealed, to cross it over at 50hz with the sub? My question is in stereo music, if you have one sub playing from 50hz down, would you lose the ability to tell where instruments are playing? Is 50hz low enough that you do not need to know the positioning of the instrument? I'm not sure if I am being clear enough. Let me put it another way. I believe one of the objectives of stereo, is to be able to put instruments through different speakers if needed. What happens if an instrument is playing in the left speaker, say, and it goes low enough that the sealed Statement can no longer produce the sound and that is now the job of the sub.

Wouldn't the sound then come out of the sub and you lose the purpose of the intended recording? Or is 50 hz low enough that it is no longer directional and it would be ok?

Studies indicate that we are incapable in most cases from localizing any frequency below about 100 Hz. No worries there. -Although there good reasons to consider a pair of subs too...

2) Do you lose anything at all (dynamics, etc), if I were to go sealed with sub? (it appears sealed is the way to go if you have a quality sub). Would there be any reason's at all why I would not want to choose this method as opposed to the ported version with a sub? I've never had a sub before so I don't have any experience how a good quality sub integrates for music. Is it too overpowering or it will be played the way the music was meant to be played?
Chris.

You won't lose any dynamics, and with a properly integrated sub, there will be little, if any audible difference. The ported version is handy if the application is music, as the added complexity of the sub generally not required.

C

[ChrisL]

Thanks for the quick reply Curt and Adelaa. The only reason I was considering the sealed + sub is I had thought I saw in a previous post where Jim mentioned the sealed statements would have a better sound quality (if integrated with a sub) than the ported with a sub. However, i believe he also mentioned the only way you would notice the difference is if you had very high quality gear.

Maybe i was reading it wrong. I'll see if I can find the message again (that should be challenging)

I think I am leaning towards the ported along with the sub. I'm sure they are amazing regardless and to my ears I probably wouldn't be able to tell a difference even if there was one.

Time to order the parts before the discount from P/E ends. (I need to keep reminding myself to click on the P/E banner at the top of this forum...)

[Jim Holtz]

Thanks for the quick reply Curt and Adelaa. The only reason I was considering the sealed + sub is I had thought I saw in a previous post where Jim mentioned the sealed statements would have a better sound quality (if integrated with a sub) than the ported with a sub. However, i believe he also mentioned the only way you would notice the difference is if you had very high quality gear.

Maybe i was reading it wrong. I'll see if I can find the message again (that should be challenging)

I think I am leaning towards the ported along with the sub. I'm sure they are amazing regardless and to my ears I probably wouldn't be able to tell a difference even if there was one.

Time to order the parts before the discount from P/E ends. (I need to keep reminding myself to click on the P/E banner at the top of this forum...)

If it matters, my Statements are ported and I do not feel a need to replace them with a sealed cabinet. Honestly, the only way I'd go sealed is if you were doing like my friend Chris did and sit them on top of their own sub and then be prepared to spend the money to integrate the subs properly with $$$$$ electronic crossovers using 24 db crossovers.

Even then, I wouldn't make any bets on whether you could hear a difference in sound quality Vs. ported on music. I have subs but only roll them in for home theater.

HTH

Jim

[ChrisL]

Thanks Jim.

Ported they shall be!

I believe I have just about all my questions answered (there have been a lot of them, but thankfully they have been answered by you and Curt over the past years). You 2 have to be commended, it seems like you should get paid for this. The amount of energy and passion you guys have is amazing. I probably speak for everyone when I say thanks.

2 final questions and I'll leave you be (for now )

1) From Curt's web site (using the published specs on the new unshielded RSs225's), the internal volume can be reduced 20%. However I read in one of the earlier posts (before the new drivers came out; I believe it was Curt) who said that the volume used in the statements was "cheated" somewhat; less volume was given to them than what the specs said (in order to keep them aesthetically pleasing so to say)

I'm wondering if this all means that the Statements can be built with 20% less volume than they are today (if the posted specs on the drivers hold true) or if it will actually be less than this because of how the volume was kept low to begin with.

Not sure if you understand what I am asking. Maybe the amount of volume that was taken off the statements was negligible and it's not worth pondering.

2) I know there are lots that need to be kept to spec such as the baffle width, driver spacing, etc. Now that the Statements appear to be able to be built with lesser volume as per no non-shielded drivers, can the depth of the statements be decreased to make up for this lesser volume? It looks like about 8.5 in. could be shaved off the back, but I am not sure the shortening of the mid driver tunnels is acceptable. I will be waiting for hopefully official results of the new drivers before I build; i am just speculating for now if decreasing the tunnels of the mids is ok.

Thanks.

[Jim Holtz]

1) From Curt's web site (using the published specs on the new unshielded RSs225's), the internal volume can be reduced 20%. However I read in one of the earlier posts (before the new drivers came out; I believe it was Curt) who said that the volume used in the statements was "cheated" somewhat; less volume was given to them than what the specs said (in order to keep them aesthetically pleasing so to say)

I'm wondering if this all means that the Statements can be built with 20% less volume than they are today (if the posted specs on the drivers hold true) or if it will actually be less than this because of how the volume was kept low to begin with.

Not sure if you understand what I am asking. Maybe the amount of volume that was taken off the statements was negligible and it's not worth pondering.

2) I know there are lots that need to be kept to spec such as the baffle width, driver spacing, etc. Now that the Statements appear to be able to be built with lesser volume as per no non-shielded drivers, can the depth of the statements be decreased to make up for this lesser volume? It looks like about 8.5 in. could be shaved off the back, but I am not sure the shortening of the mid driver tunnels is acceptable. I will be waiting for hopefully official results of the new drivers before I build; i am just speculating for now if decreasing the tunnels of the mids is ok.

Thanks.

The new RS225's will also work just fine in the current volume. The cabinet volume can be reduced up to 20% per Curt but you can't take it off the depth or the mid tunnel balance will be upset. You really have two options if you want to reduce cabinet volume. Fill the bottom of the cabinet with styrofoam or build them shorter and place them on a VERY short stand so you can still maintain the proper ribbon height.

It seems that everyone has their own idea for a cabinet mod on the Statements series. It's DIY so anything can be tried but no guarantees that the modded cabinet will produce the same sound quality as the way it was designed. :roll:

What I'm trying to say is, the small difference in in size wouldn't be worth it to me. YMMV...

Jim

[saabracer23]

What I'm trying to say is, the small difference in in size wouldn't be worth it to me. YMMV...

Jim

I have been tryingto have this answered as well, so are you saying that with the new drivers you would just go with the current cabinet size?

Dan

[ChrisL]

Thanks Jim.

If you would have said decreasing the tunnel length definitely wouldn't affect sound quality, I would have been quite happy shaving off the extra inches from the back. It would have moved the front of the speaker in closer to the walls for that extra WAF...

Since you are saying the mid balance will be upset, I am going to build them the original size but decrease the volume by building an accessible enclosure into the back that will house the crossover.

Chris.

[Jim Holtz]

I have been tryingto have this answered as well, so are you saying that with the new drivers you would just go with the current cabinet size?

Dan

Yes....

Curt can weigh in on whether port length will change.

Jim

[Jim Holtz]

Thanks Jim.

If you would have said decreasing the tunnel length definitely wouldn't affect sound quality, I would have been quite happy shaving off the extra inches from the back. It would have moved the front of the speaker in closer to the walls for that extra WAF...

Since you are saying the mid balance will be upset, I am going to build them the original size but decrease the volume by building an accessible enclosure into the back that will house the crossover.

Chris.

Hi Chris,

I think that's a splendid idea.

However, it's really not necessary to reduce the volume of the cabinet for the new drivers. They'll work just fine with only a "possible" change in port length.

Jim

[Trompie]

Statment Build

Hi Everyone.

I don't want to hijack this tread I just want to give you guys a short description/intro of myself and what I want to do.

I live in a very small town called Wolmaransstad in South Africa. Getting everything that I need for the build will cost a little more than I budget for (more specific the transportation is a killer) so I still don't have any of the parts that is needed.

I would like to build the Statements for use in my 5.1 H.T. setup.
It will be 2x Statements for fronts (original idea was sealed) and a Statement Center (would like it to be as wide as my 40” LCD TV for the looks) and 2x Statement Monitors (to be used as rears) as well as 2x subs.

I feel I want to be a part of this tread as Chris is going to use the new drivers and if there are any problems/hiccups (not saying there would be any) it would most likely be sort out by you guys before I ran into it.

Chris I really like the idea of an accessible enclosure into the back that will house the crossover.

Jim you said “However, it's really not necessary to reduce the volume of the cabinet for the new drivers. They'll work just fine with only a "possible" change in port length.”
I assume the possible change is when we use the original designs?

Thanks to Jim, Curt, Wayne and every one else who made the statements possible for our enjoyment.

Regard and good luck to your build Chris.

Trompie

Please not that English is my second language.

[ChrisL]

Hi Trompie,

You would not know English is your second language.

I am hoping that there will be some official measuring of these drivers before I embark on this, so we all know for sure about the volume requirements for the new drivers (or new tuning parameters).

That being said, if no official measurements are done, I will be building them the original size and decreasing the volume by about 20% like the specs seem to say. I believe what has been stated is that there would not need to be any changes to the port requirements if it was done this way.

I'm sure not having the original statements to audition them with, I could probably build them much different than the specs say (shrink the box, decrease the port, etc) and I would still have amazing sounding speakers (to me anyhow), but I am hoping for some official measurements so that I do not end up wondering if they could have been better. I am the type of guy that always frets over things like that and will always wonder if it is not put to rest.

That being said, I put in my order with P/E today.

I still have to complete my order with Madisound and Erse for the missing crossover stuff.

I have decided to get everything required for a Statements build, Center Statements and Subwoofer.

After talking to the P/E guy (as I don't know a lot about subwoofers), I went with the Dayton RSS315HO-4 12 Reference HO Subwoofer and BASH 500W amplifier. I don't need to crack plaster and the P/E guy said this sub will give me good low end and is a nice quality sub which will probably match up nicely with the quality of the Statement Drivers. As I am writing this I see that the TC Sounds Epic 12 DVC is only $40 more than the Dayton... I'm wondering if the $40 is worth switching. Anyone?

Total Cost of the parts so far is $1517.

This includes:

- BOM from the Statements / Center
- Subwoofer (Dayton Sub, BASH 500W plate amp)
- Feet, Screws, Terminals, Jasper circle jig, Driver sealing Gasket, Soldering gun, solder

Does not include (which I still need to get) : Crossover Wire, Foam / Dampening material, MDF, Veneer, Glue, Finish, Sandpaper. (rough estimate $300 - $500 ??)

Because I have decide to go with a sub and center, I will now need to get a capable receiver (only have a 2 channel pre/amp currently). The Emotiva setup as some people have mentioned look like a nice setup and reasonable.

As it gets closer to finishing I need to determine if I will be spraying or not. I have a compressor, but no gun. Decent guns look to be cheap so I will probably pick one up for spraying, along with probably a good plunge router for making the circle cutouts (I already have a router but it is mounted in a table) Thought I would look around for a good used one. Can never have too many tools!

When does tax refund time come? 8O

[Jim Holtz]

Hi Trompie,

Actually, what I meant was the new RS225's might require a slightly different port length when used in the original cabinet design. Curt will have to weigh in on that subject, however. He's the brains of the group. :B

Jim

[Curt C]

And here I thought I was in the group solely because of my good looks...

[AdelaaR]

Hehe

English is my third language but the grammar is quite close to flemmish and zuidafrikaans for that matter.
Incredible to read how many people from all over the world are building these speakers!