New Vifa NE Line

[MuaDibb]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuaDibb
I see where everyone is ordering tweets, and I'm anxiously awaiting some tests results to pop up but...... I haven't seen anybody thats ordering the little silk dome. Any reasons? I think it might pair nicely with the TB704D's I picked up at the last PE tent sale.


Quote:
Originally Posted by augerpro
Sent some NE tweeters to Zaph.

1" Al, anodized Al, Ti, and fabric
3/4" Al and fabric

I think you just haven't heard about any damage to fabric domes.

Yes, you are correct. One was ordered for testing. I still didn't see that anyone was interested in using it (fabric dome) in a project. I was just wondering if it was strictly personal preference or if there was something in the graphs I wasn't seeing that made the metal domes more desirable, just looking to pick up more knowledge. :T

[jkrutke]

Got a replacement aluminum dome in today, without damage - but barely. The way these are currently packaged, the two plastic grill pieces are pressed in. The tweeters are 1-7/16" high. The box is 1-1/4" high. Therefore, they are press-fit in, and the grills were actually touching the domes. See picture.

This box only had one small tweeter in it. If there had been more items bouncing around, there surely would be damage, as there was in the last shipment with the tweeters packed this way.

I don't recommend anyone buy these tweeters from PE. They have had plenty of chances to make things right.

[dsrviola]

My tweeters had the standard clear/white plastic stand offs placed in the mounting holes of the flange. They were then place inside a clear plastic box. No issues whatsoever. Not defending PE, just sharing my xp.

[jkrutke]

My tweeters had the standard clear/white plastic stand offs placed in the mounting holes of the flange. They were then place inside a clear plastic box. No issues whatsoever. Not defending PE, just sharing my xp.

That would be acceptable. There seems to be a lack of shipping consistency however.

If all goes well, I should be able to get these on the test baffle this weekend.

[dlr]

Did any of you guys with mashed tweeters get to keep any of those? If yes, it would be cool if you could cut one open and tell us about the internal construction. Vent opening size, pole piece geometry, presence and positioning of any copper, former ventilation, etc. Also I'd like to know if the leads are connected to the former 180 degrees apart or both closer to one side.

Bump. Looking to see someone open one up and post some pics.

Dave

[savage25xtreme]

bad mouthing a sponsor isn't a no-no on this forum?

if you cant say something nice, then.... at least put a smilie after it so you can say you are joking

[BLD 25]

anyone test these out yet?

[JonMarsh]

Reporting factual issues with a sponsor is one thing- calling someone names or indulging in billingsgate would be another matter altogether.

I haven't tested these out yet, because after several weeks, I still haven't gotten replacement parts from PE, or indication of when they will ship to replace the ones I returned. But they did already send me the survey forms inquiring about how good there service was handling this issue.

Those are facts. Nothing more. Others have gotten replacement tweeters already, but in some cases, like one of my original issues, the wrong ones. Maybe I should settle for that... :W

[Jed]

Jon, have you called PE? That's the best way to get things done with them, versus email. At least that's what I've found lately.

[JonMarsh]

That's how I got the ball rolling, along with emails with detailed photos and descriptions. Biz travel and the like lately have made phone calls during the day a non-starter.

[JonMarsh]

Got notification that replacement parts have shipped.

[augerpro]

Results of Zaph's testing up on his blog. I was expecting a bit more in the distortion department on the lowend. Responses are very usable though, and low extension is very good even for the 3/4". Have to do a bit more comparing but I think I'd like to use the 3/4" in my BBV2 over the DQ25.

[JonMarsh]

Results of Zaph's testing up on his blog. I was expecting a bit more in the distortion department on the lowend. Responses are very usable though, and low extension is very good even for the 3/4". Have to do a bit more comparing but I think I'd like to use the 3/4" in my BBV2 over the DQ25.

Thanks, Brandon- I'll go have a look.

[augerpro]

BTW if anyone would like to check these out for themselves I'll sell all 6 for $75 shipped

[NyxOne]

I just saw the results from Zaph! What a let down, frankly this is disappointing!

Chuck

[jkrutke]

I just saw the results from Zaph! What a let down, frankly this is disappointing!

Chuck

Don't just focus on the HD sweeps, these tweeters do have some good to offer. Regardless of the manufacturers Xmax spec of .1mm, these will have a lot more output potential than many domes. A tweeter coil winding length of 2.5 mm is pretty rare. Even if Xmax was zero, the coil length means lots of output before serious distortion sets in.

I didn't hack open a 3/4" but if that has a long winding too that would be nice. The NE19VTA could be a 3/4" that works a lot lower than most.

[NyxOne]

Don't just focus on the HD sweeps, these tweeters do have some good to offer. Regardless of the manufacturers Xmax spec of .1mm, these will have a lot more output potential than many domes. A tweeter coil winding length of 2.5 mm is pretty rare. Even if Xmax was zero, the coil length means lots of output before serious distortion sets in.

I didn't hack open a 3/4" but if that has a long winding too that would be nice. The NE19VTA could be a 3/4" that works a lot lower than most.

Well... I was expecting something along the lines of the VIFA DQ25 and the SB29RDCN. I know they are only 3/4" dome but ... ... ...

I guess there is nothing wrong with them if you plan on using them above 2.5-3.0k.

Thanks for the additional details,
Chuck

Ohh BTW : I've spent a couple of hours at the SSI (Montreal, QC) yesterday and I've learned that Verity Audio And Wilson Audio is now using some of SB's drivers!!! I just wanted to share with you guys.

[bmaupin]

It would be great if there were some HD plots somewhere for the DX19 and XT19 since I am familiar with those :W

[5th element]

I can run some sweeps through the XT19 if you want. Got a pair sitting on a shelf.

[NyxOne]

DX19

XT19

Tested by Mark K.

Enjoy!

Chuck

[BLD 25]

so is there any advantage of one dome material over another?
is there an advantage of the 1" over the 3/4" or vice-versa?

It just appears that almost all of them perform nearly identically. thanks for testing these guys!

[NyxOne]

so is there any advantage of one dome material over another?
is there an advantage of the 1" over the 3/4" or vice-versa?

It just appears that almost all of them perform nearly identically. thanks for testing these guys!

Different type of dome material have different breakup... and I think it's also a matter of taste. I prefer soft material ...

3/4" dome have better dispersion (off-axis) than 1" dome.


Chuck

[dlr]

BTW if anyone would like to check these out for themselves I'll sell all 6 for $75 shipped

You've got a private message on this.

Dave

[Winter]

5th Element, I would be very interested in harmonic distortion sweeps for the Vifa XT-19, like Zaph and Jed perform. I have several pairs of the Vifa XT-19 tweeter. I use LspCAD for crossover design and testing, which doesn't have distortion testing capabilities, as SoundEasy does.

[Jonasz]

Here you have some measurements of the XT19.

http://www.rjbaudio.com/Audiofiles/faulty%20XT19.html

[Winter]

Thanks Jonasz for the link to existing harmonic distortion plots for the Vifa XT19. Harmonic distortion trend characteristics for the XT19 are evident. I just have to take into account the different test conditions.

Roman Bednarek used 80dB @ 1m, assume mic @ 1m
Zaph used 90dB @ 1m, mic @ 4" (for tweeter tests only, other driver group tests differ)

[jkrutke]

5th Element, I would be very interested in harmonic distortion sweeps for the Vifa XT-19, like Zaph and Jed perform. I have several pairs of the Vifa XT-19 tweeter. I use LspCAD for crossover design and testing, which doesn't have distortion testing capabilities, as SoundEasy does.

I actually had those at one time but I lost them in a freak deletion accident. I still have the response curves though. Mark K's data is good though.

[SoundOfNothing]

Zaph what are your subjective thoughts on the these 3/4" tweeters and how they compare to your other favorites in that size?

[bmaupin]

Thanks Jonasz for the link to existing harmonic distortion plots for the Vifa XT19. Harmonic distortion trend characteristics for the XT19 are evident. I just have to take into account the different test conditions.

Roman Bednarek used 80dB @ 1m, assume mic @ 1m
Zaph used 90dB @ 1m, mic @ 4" (for tweeter tests only, other driver group tests differ)

Roman's low SPL measurements make the XT19 seem like an incredibly distortion tweeter that could cross at 2k. Would be nice to be able to compare apples to apples - you could say we've been spoiled

[JonMarsh]

Back on topic, good news to report- I got my replacement 3/4" titanium dome and 1" titanium domes today, and they were all well packed, no worries at all about the shipment technique- this is how things ought to work!

Now with the push on for the Modula Xtreme, I won't have time to play with them until much later in April.

[Kevin Haskins]

Yes... .mine came in correct this time too. They seem to have the shipping issues worked out because the new ones are all packaged securely.

[BLD 25]

Different type of dome material have different breakup... and I think it's also a matter of taste. I prefer soft material ...

3/4" dome have better dispersion (off-axis) than 1" dome.


Chuck

thanks, I understand a little that they have small taste differences. I was hoping someone could chime in and say something else about them. For example, many people prefer the aluminum seas neo's over the silk for various reasons. I like some silk tweeters, but others i like in aluminum.

I guess i am confused since by zaph's results, they all seem to perform nearly the same.

[5th element]

thanks, I understand a little that they have small taste differences. I was hoping someone could chime in and say something else about them. For example, many people prefer the aluminum seas neo's over the silk for various reasons. I like some silk tweeters, but others i like in aluminum.

I guess i am confused since by zaph's results, they all seem to perform nearly the same.

The aluminium SEAS tweeters tend to have slightly better off axis performance over the fabric versions. This is a direct result of the phase shield they have over the top of the dome. The phase shield is required to keep the top end response from drooping. To some people this is important.

The aluminium 27TBFCG also has slightly lower distortion over the fabric 27TDFC. Although it's a toss up on distortion between the neo alu and fabric.

At the end of the day it's personal preference that will rule the day. I'd go for the fabric versions as the grid cover on the SEAS tweeters is mighty ugly.

Out of the new Vifa tweeters I'd simply pick the one that had the best visual match to the cone of the midrange mid/bass I was using with it.

One other aspect is that the fabric dome is inherently better at surviving the odd curious finger.

[BLD 25]

ah, interesting thought on survival.

I love my seas neo aluminums, and i have tried quite a few tweets. These would be in a car environment, so looks may not be as important either. I might just try some soon.

[BLD 25]

any other reviews?

[SpeakerGuy]

Zaph what are your subjective thoughts...

Hahahaha :lol:

Good luck with that one. Zaph's competent, experienced, and knowledgeable - but my guess is he might be half Vulcan :assimilate: (hope that's not insulting, not meant to be)....

These tweeters are TINY! Until you get one of these cute little buggers in your hands, it's hard to realize how small they are. If you wanted REALLY close C-T-C you could even route into the faceplate a little.

I'd be surprised if they couldn't crossover at least as low as the DQ25, even with the smaller SD. I've got a few of them on the shelf (the Al version of the NE19) but I've got other projects to finish before I get to test them.

...the grid cover on the SEAS tweeters is mighty ugly...

I think it looks cool. But, I have had tweeters destroyed by curious females poking fingers oke: ; that might be a big part of the reason I like the look of that hex grid.

[HareBrained]

A design using the NE19 Ti has been published by Lou C:

http://speakers.lonesaguaro.com/speakers/TB4V/Piccolata.html

[Silversmoky]

Unfortunately the 5.25" and 8" suffer from suspension limiting which makes the extra x-max of no value.

Rick (or anyone). Could you explain this a little further? I am considering using a pair of these 8's in the bottom of a 3 way and the suspension limiting you speak of concerns me but I don't quite understand how. Are you able to tell by looking at the drivers individual specs. or is it physical testing on a unit? Thanks.

[Bear]

Rick (or anyone). Could you explain this a little further? I am considering using a pair of these 8's in the bottom of a 3 way and the suspension limiting you speak of concerns me but I don't quite understand how. Are you able to tell by looking at the drivers individual specs. or is it physical testing on a unit? Thanks.

The 5mm Xmax is peak-to-peak, i.e., you only have 2.5mm one way. Good enough for midrange duty, but very limiting for reproducing lower octaves with any oomph.

[Silversmoky]

The 5mm Xmax is peak-to-peak, i.e., you only have 2.5mm one way. Good enough for midrange duty, but very limiting for reproducing lower octaves with any oomph.

Is that peak to peak? If that it the case I understand the limitations as far as low frequency ability. It has me wondering though. It wouldn't just be the 5.5 inch woofer and the 8 incher but the whole line would be rather limited on the low end. Rick mentions those two specifically, which I guess is what got me wondering about this. Maybe I am missing something!

[Jed]

Rick (or anyone). Could you explain this a little further? I am considering using a pair of these 8's in the bottom of a 3 way and the suspension limiting you speak of concerns me but I don't quite understand how. Are you able to tell by looking at the drivers individual specs. or is it physical testing on a unit? Thanks.

He's referring to the Kilppel tests that showed the driver's Bl symmetry range and stiffness of suspension Kms curve, found in Voice Coil magazine.

[JonMarsh]

In simpler terms, these Vifa drivers are a bit like the old Adire Extremis- they have a motor that has more travel than their suspension system want to allow- it starts going nonlinear on restoring force before reaching the VC excursion limits based on Xmax.

An observed clue to this is the width of surround roll over and the design of the spider.

[Silversmoky]

He's referring to the Kilppel tests that showed the driver's Bl symmetry range and stiffness of suspension Kms curve, found in Voice Coil magazine.

Thanks Jed. I figured Rick's observations were based on some sort of testing but couldn't quite wrap my head around what sort. I would like to take a look at those to see if I can make sense of them. Is Voice Coil worth subscribing too?

In simpler terms, these Vifa drivers are a bit like the old Adire Extremis- they have a motor that has more travel than their suspension system want to allow- it starts going nonlinear on restoring force before reaching the VC excursion limits based on Xmax.

An observed clue to this is the width of surround roll over and the design of the spider.

Thanks Jon. That explanation helps alot! That is somewhat disappointing to see on these drivers. I understand getting a clue from the surround roll over thickness but what can you observe from the spider that gives you a clue?

[Patrick Bateman]

New drivers from Vifa are on the Tymphany site. Nice looking. :T

Tweeter

Woofers

Midwoofer

Mike

Did anyone else notice that Peerless is selling speakers which are 80% identical, but at a lower cost?

I can post pics later if you'd like. There are Peerless units which appear to have the same motor, the same cone, and a surround that's nearly identical. The Vifa units have a superior basket. And they're a lot easier to mount (Peerless is using a wonky basket shape)

[5th element]

By the looks of the Tymphany website Vifa has been absorbed by Peerless and no longer exists, all the drivers now appearing under the Peerless brand name.

It's about time they did something like this. The organisation and information on offer on the Tymphany website has been absolutely rubbish for the past couple of years. Drivers appearing, then disappearing, datasheet links returning 404s and drivers hopping from one brand line to another. I hope this move finally sorts all of that out.