Audio Technology woofer

[Rick Craig]

I have the 18cm unit here. It will be interesting to see how it stacks up against the competition.

[JonMarsh]

Well, if you're willing to share info, it would be interesting. As difficult as they are to source for DIY, it's probably only an "academic" interest- it's easier to get the exotic Accuton parts than ATC! :W

[TacoD]

Audio Technology is imho better available than Accuton / Thiel & Partner, it also cheaper in Europe.

What version do you have?

- C-quenze 18 H 52 17 06 SD (overhung motor, alu voice coil former)
- Or custom Flex 5"

[ThomasW]

So people don't get confused we should differentiate...

ATC = Acoustic Transducer Company is British

Audio Technology sometimes referred to as 'Skaaning' is in Denmark . If one has the $$$$ and patience the 'Flex' units can be custom ordered directly from Audio Technology.

[chrismercurio]

This thread is worth a peek to see the Duelund parts and custom Audio Technology (flex)units that are going into a new Peak Consult model.

http://www.euphonia-audioforum.se/forums/index.php?showtopic=6635&st=225

[JonMarsh]

My bad. Thanks for the head slap, Tom.

Thanks for the link, Chris. Someone's got a bit of money to play with!

I've done a preliminary set of drawings for a Peak Consult Dragon clone, but I'm back to leaning towards an Isiris Mta for the next "big" project, not a 7/8 scale dragon.

So, Craig, have you got the 18H521706SD?


I like the customized concept of the flex series, and the basket approach looks like it will be strong and hopefully resonance free.

While the AudioTechnology web site lists Madisound as a partner, there isn't any indication on the current Madisound site that they sell them.

Seems to be a similar situation with regards to Solen and E-Speakers. So, not so easy to get around here is my story, and I'm sticking to it. In Europe it may be a different story, of course.

[CraigJ]

Oh no,

Don't let Jon see this link. Wait, is that like a "baby" Dragon? :demon:



Craig :W
Dang nab it Jon, you beat me to the post......"must stick to plan, repeat"

[CraigJ]

So, Craig, have you got the 18H521706SD?

$250 from E-Speakers, not as much $ as the Accutons. :rofl: Oops, that's four drivers, not two.



a couple of RS270s, a pair of RS180s add a 27TBFCG, and there you go.
Craig

[JonMarsh]

Oh no,

Don't let Jon see this link. Wait, is that like a "baby" Dragon? :demon:



Craig :W
Dang nab it Jon, you beat me to the post......"must stick to plan, repeat"

They are purty, aren't they?

Dang if that one on the right doesn't look like my drawings.... has someone from Denmark been sneaking around my computer? :E

I don't think those front panels look nearly beefy enough, though.... :roll:

I like skinny women, but fat front panels! :B

[savage25xtreme]

that's not even in English and I know its insanely expensive haha 8O

[chrismercurio]

I have emailed Skaaning a few times over the last several years. They sell direct, respond within 24 hours, and even post prices in Euro on their site.

They make top notch stuff. Since it is poly, it sounds much different than paper (Scan-Speak) or ceramic cones (Accuton), but I like it. And...they will build you whatever you want in hobbiest quantities! (no need to buy 50, 100, or 1000)

Chris

[JonMarsh]

$250 from E-Speakers, not as much $ as the Accutons. :rofl: Oops, that's four drivers, not two.



a couple of RS270s, a pair of RS180s add a 27TBFCG, and there you go.
Craig

Have you ever run the numbers on T/S parameters and enclosure sizes for RS270's? They need HUGE boxes for bass extension- of course, then it will be fairly efficient. A 10" driver with a 40 gram woofer is a bit out of the ordinary.

The other thing that's cool/odd about these, considering how deep they are, even butted back against the wall, they'd stick out in the room quite a ways!

[Face]

What are the odds of a tutorial on how to make cabinets like that? I'd love to make a pair that look just like those on the left.

[JonMarsh]

Keep in mind, the cabinet on the left is actually four cabinets. Even if you wanted to reduce it to say, just two, the idea is the same- make the facet fronts for each section, then glue the result together. All you need is some homemade jigs and a precision taper jig, and a decent saw. Unfortunately, that does eliminate contractor style 10" table saws- they don't do deep enough cuts.

[---k---]

What are the odds of a tutorial on how to make cabinets like that? I'd love to make a pair that look just like those on the left.

Yeah, those are pretty. I've wished I would have incorporated a big facet like that along the tweeter in my Khans. I think my woodworking is starting to approach where it needs to be to accomplish it. But, its too late...

[Face]

Keep in mind, the cabinet on the left is actually four cabinets. Even if you wanted to reduce it to say, just two, the idea is the same- make the facet fronts for each section, then glue the result together. All you need is some homemade jigs and a precision taper jig, and a decent saw. Unfortunately, that does eliminate contractor style 10" table saws- they don't do deep enough cuts.

I recently picked up some kind of sliding saw that will make cuts up to 18" long and will do all sorts of angles, etc(compound sliding miter saw?)...that may work. I just googled precision taper jig, I'll be picking up one of those soon too, thanks.

As for the large Duelund caps pictured above, they're mighty heavy, they feel like a few pounds each.

[CraigJ]

Jon,

Just kidding and being driver excessive. Here is what I'm budgeting to make:

[JonMarsh]

We are on the same page, as you know, though I hear Palpatine is thinking ahead again... :twisted:




I don't know how ET puts up with that guy.... :roll:

I know where you could get a new pair of these for only $37,500... :E

Image not available


Of course, there's a little more to it than just building a box and putting the drivers in.... But wouldn't it be more fun to do it the hard way?

[Rick Craig]

Well, if you're willing to share info, it would be interesting. As difficult as they are to source for DIY, it's probably only an "academic" interest- it's easier to get the exotic Accuton parts than ATC! :W

I'll be happy to share the information. This is a C-Quenze unit but doesn't have any specific model numbering. A customer sent it to me for designing a 2-way. I did the measurements and some modeling today.

[tf1216]

Have you determined what you will be mating the 18H with Rick?

[Rick Craig]

Have you determined what you will be mating the 18H with Rick?

Scan-Speak D2904-710000's supplied by my customer.

[Jed]

Rick if you need me to upload any pics for you just send via email again. Last time you were having trouble uploading the pics on the forum.

I'm sure a lot of us would like to see some measurements of this driver. Although not knowing what model we're looking at is a bit confusing. If it did turn out to measure well, what would we order from AT?

[chrismercurio]

It's probably the stock unit that Andre has on/for sale at E-Speakers, which is the same unit Troels Gravesen used in the TL kits he designed for Jantzen and I think the same model Tony Gee used in a 2 way on his site.

Peace,

Chris

[tf1216]

I'm with Chris in guessing it's the stock 18H driver.

Troels' used a custom 18H driver (52 15 06 - overhung motor).

Tony Gee used the stock unit (52 17 06) in his write-up for "The Monitor".

[Dave Bullet]

I know where you could get a new pair of these for only $37,500... :E

The bottom picture... A novel concept to the double enclosure (although I thought the second enclosure was supposed to go on the inside - not outside the drivers). Maybe the whole thing is a new "allpass bandpass" design :rofl:

Ah well, at least it gets shipped in its own coffin. Something for the kids to play in after unpacking (or put them in for discipline if need be).

[JonMarsh]

The bottom picture... A novel concept to the double enclosure (although I thought the second enclosure was supposed to go on the inside - not outside the drivers). Maybe the whole thing is a new "allpass bandpass" design :rofl:

Ah well, at least it gets shipped in its own coffin. Something for the kids to play in after unpacking (or put them in for discipline if need be).

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I'm sure we could find something to do with it....

[tf1216]

Hi Rick,

Can you add any updates on this design?

[Rick Craig]

Hi Rick,

Can you add any updates on this design?

I just finished the crossover. The woofer falls short of the competition and you can do better for less money. I'm not sure if this is a current model or how old it is (previously used in a high end car audio system) so it may not be representative of what AT currently sells.

The main issue I had was a sharp dip at about 1400hz, probably edge resonance from the surround. The response profile made it difficult to get a good filter transfer function. In comparison, the Scan-Speak Revelator beats it in all areas - frequency response, flexible tweeter choices, bass extension, and sensitivity for a lower cost.

[tf1216]

I was expecting to hear better comments but that is what makes this hobby exciting. Thank you Rick ( :

[Rick Craig]

I was expecting to hear better comments but that is what makes this hobby exciting. Thank you Rick ( :

I think with a different cone and suspension it could be much better because otherwise the sound is pretty clean. As I said earlier (before I tested the woofers) I would expect more given the price tag.

[cjd]

We're so picky!

[TacoD]

I just finished the crossover. The woofer falls short of the competition and you can do better for less money.

I can understand that the AT does not tick all the boxes for your application, but stating that that you can easily do better is in my opinion not correct.

There are a lot of different versions you can order, so most probably you are using the woofer in the wrong application.

[Dave Bullet]

I can understand that the AT does not tick all the boxes for your application, but stating that that you can easily do better is in my opinion not correct.

There are a lot of different versions you can order, so most probably you are using the woofer in the wrong application.

I've read comments from 2 other designers to the same effect (can do better for less money), so either their applications were also wrong or there is a reason Scanspeak seems to be used in more DIY designs than AT.

[ch83575]

I've read comments from 2 other designers to the same effect (can do better for less money), so either their applications were also wrong or there is a reason Scanspeak seems to be used in more DIY designs than AT.

Sonus Faber has updated all of its upper line speakers to AT mids instead of the Scans they used to use... the difference was not subtle! I am sure they might have refined other aspects of the design at the same time, but the new ones keep all that was great about the original Fabers and add detail, delicacy and resolution to the picture. They are really impressive speakers.

Just the other side of the coin.

-Chad

[Jed]

I'd like to see some measurements so I can decide for myself.

[Rick Craig]

Measurements now posted here...

http://www.selahaudio.com/id182.html

[tf1216]

On more thoughts on this speaker?

[Rick Craig]

On more thoughts on this speaker?

For less $ the Scan-Speak Revelator or Illuminator are better performers.

[Scottg]

This thread is worth a peek to see the Duelund parts and custom Audio Technology (flex)units that are going into a new Peak Consult model.


http://www.euphonia-audioforum.se/fo...ic=6635&st=225

I'll "see" your pretty manufacturing pic's and "raise you":

http://www.tg-acoustics.com/nl/custom/custom.html

(some of Tony Gee's custom work.) :T