Sub driver info.

[Hdale85]

So I've been looking at some drivers... and lets say I want to spend 500 per driver at the most. I would like 15" subs more then likely and they have to be in boxes. I'd rather the boxes not be TOO big. I would like to have 2 of them as well. Anyways what I'm wondering is, is it worth it to go with something like the Audiopulse stuff over something liket he SoundSplinter? I mean the Audiopulse stuff sure looks nice specs wise but its like twice the money? Is there any other heart pounding sub out there that fits into this category?

Just for reference here is the AudioPulse driver I speak of

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=293-616

And of course the SS would be the RL-P15.

[Mazeroth]

That Audiopulse is way overpriced. More of a high-end car audio sub if you ask me (1500w RMS with 28mm xmax).

When you say TOO big for the boxes, what exactly is TOO big? Also, will this be used for music or movies or both?

I HIGHLY recommend the Dayton RSS390HF subs as long as they can fit into your size constraints. Sure, they don't have as much xmax as the other guys but their extremely low distortion and price is unmatched.

[Hdale85]

Well my new towers will play down to 30hz pretty respectively so probably mostly for movies. Also I think the price gap between the AudioPulse and the RL-P is a lot smaller when some things are taken into consideration. Although I'd rather not blast that all over here. So lets just say for me they are the same price or close to.

Also I could probably just go cheap and get 2 15" RSS's but I was trying to think of what I could do to better that.

[Hdale85]

Oh and the amp will be a Crown XTI2000 unless the drivers I pick do not need that in which case it will be an XTI1000.

[Silversmoky]

Two subs that come to mind for much cheaper than the Audiopulse Revo are the SDX 15 from CSS and the Maelstrom (18 inch) from Exodus. The SDX should match up pretty close to the Audiopulse you are looking at.

[Hdale85]

Yeah. I def don't think I'm going to be able to fit an 18" very well. I've looked at the Exodus stuff though.

[Hdale85]

I forgot to mention about size. I would say 5-6 cu ft per enclosure... I may have to go sealed just to keep size down. We'll see heck I may end up doing a single sub at first.

[ThomasW]

Maelstroms are sold out.

I wouldn't buy any TC-Sounds drivers until we see what's going to happen in the long term. So AudioPulse and Sound Splinter drivers would be off the recommend list until we see what happens with regards to warranty and service.

[Hdale85]

Yeah I certainly understand your concern with the warranty info. Partsexpress has listed on their site that the Audiopulse warranty is to go through them. This is what it says on their site.

Warranty:
All products are warranted free from defects in material and workmanship for one year from date of purchase. Warranty does not apply to misuse, abuse, neglect, accident, improper use, etc

CONTACT:
Parts Express
Ph: 1-800-338-0531 ext. 790

RETURN PROCESS:
Call Parts Express to obtain an RA#. Pack merchandise carefully to avoid further damage, and complete Return Form on the bottom of the invoice. Record customer and RA number on the outside of the box. Ship merchandise back to Parts Express prepaid.


I guess that depends on how much you trust PE to uphold the warranty but I trust them well enough.

As for the Maelstorms they are just to big anyways. The Tempest-X is a possibility though.

What would you think about 2 sonotubes with 2 Tempest-x's in each? Sealed one on top and one on bottom. Guessing they would have to be wired out of phase. Maybe there would be no real benefit to this? Although I would guess it would just be like running 2 sealed 15's an a box. Just an idea as they have the 4 pack of tempest x's for well below my budget.

[Jed]

Your towers should be sealed with the RS180s and actively crossed at 70hz if going with a sub in the system. I guess for music ported is the way to go with the Dynamic 4Ts MTMWWWWs.

[Hdale85]

Well the sub is mostly for HT I doubt I'll ever use it for music. Just kind of looking at some options. And I can cross the towers high for movies thats not a problem But they will still be ported but shouldn't make a difference really.

[Jed]

Sure it makes a difference. If the system is ported with an F3 of 30hz, you'll have summing with the sub that is not ideal as opposed to a system with the sealed RS180s with a Q of .7 and a natural second order acoustic rolloff with a Fc of 70hz or so.

[Hdale85]

So if they are ported and crossed at 70hz it would be bad?

[Mazeroth]

So if they are ported and crossed at 70hz it would be bad?

There would be no reason to have them ported if they were crossing over at 70 hz. You can always port them, stuff a sock or foam in the port when using them with a sub, and remove the stuffing when you want to run them full-range.

Also, you probably want to look at a different amp. Chasw98 has done some extensive measurements on amplifiers over at AVSForum and found the XTi1000 to be very lacking. No idea on the XTi2000, but I bet it doesn't live up to its specs like the XTi1000. Also, there have been many reported problems with the XTi series from Crown. I'd say their worst series ever, as far as I know.

The Behringer EP series, on the other hand, measure extremely well and are attractively priced. After looking at these links you can go back to his first post for links to all other tests.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13869426#post13869426

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13877614#post13877614

[Hdale85]

Hmmm I'd just like something thats relatively quiet. I guess I could just go with an EP2500 or something.

[Mazeroth]

Here's more concrete evidence that the EP2500 is a great deal. It's neck and neck with a Crown K2 that costs a few times what the EP2500 does:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11660712&postcount=261

[Hdale85]

Yeah I've just heard they have some noisy fans. I'm still not sure about drivers though. Have to see what stuffing my port tubes with a plug will look like as far as the FR.

[Hdale85]

Ok so sealed IXL 18.4's might be a possibility.

[Jed]

Have to see what stuffing my port tubes with a plug will look like as far as the FR.

It would look like a sealed response that you can model in Unibox.

[Hdale85]

Yeah thats what I looked at. If crossed at 70hz that might be an OK thing to do. With 75L xmax becomes an issue But its not much over at 70hz so probably wouldn't be a big deal.

[Johnloudb]

Sure it makes a difference. If the system is ported with an F3 of 30hz, you'll have summing with the sub that is not ideal as opposed to a system with the sealed RS180s with a Q of .7 and a natural second order acoustic rolloff with a Fc of 70hz or so.

I think he plans on using an active crossover, in which the port really won't be a factor. I crossed our Nelson Reed 804B speakers at 80 Hz with a first order (passive line level). The subs were crossed at 60 hz 4th order. This worked wonderfully with clean tight bass.

The Nelson Reed speakers have an F3 of 33 Hz, ported.

So, I guess if he does something similar, I should work IMO. You can just add a bypass switch to the crossover when listening to music, if desired. Though I found the subs helped music too.

[Hdale85]

Nope no active crossover....Jed knows all about the speaker as he's designing the crossover and what not haha.

[Hdale85]

Is there some sort of Auto EQ for subs? What do most use for a sub EQ? The Bheringer?

[Johnloudb]

Nope no active crossover....Jed knows all about the speaker as he's designing the crossover and what not haha.

I know he knows does - I certainly meant no disrespect to Jed. He knows way more about speakers than me and way more experienced. ;x(

I was just offering another option. You have to use an active low pass filter with the subs. But I chose a passive high pass filter on the mains. Freeing up the woofers on the main speakers greatly helps the mid bass. Just my 2 cents.

I have no doubt Jed will work out something better though.

[Hdale85]

Hmm I guess I was not sure what you meant. The subs will be crossed over by my receiver. Speakers would be as well when using it for movies and what not. I didn't mean that Jed knows more then you I was saying he knows all about my new speakers as he's designing them.

[Johnloudb]

Hmm I guess I was not sure what you meant. The subs will be crossed over by my receiver. Speakers would be as well when using it for movies and what not. I didn't mean that Jed knows more then you I was saying he knows all about my new speakers as he's designing them.

I wasn't considering the home theater receiver/crossover. I'm used to two channels, so you can ignore my comments. sorry.

[Hdale85]

Ah yeah I may end up using the sub during 2 channel... but most of the time I find I like 2 channel without a sub. The sub is really mostly for HT use. I saw that Kingpin did 2 IXL 18.4's in 2 enclosures that are 28x28x12 sealed and thats starting to sound appealing to me.

[Jed]

hp mains
.

John's right about HPing the mains. Set the Sub at a Fc of 70hz with an LR4 acoustic slope and the mains with a slope of LR2 @ 70hz in combination with the Sealed RS180's natural acoustic 2nd order slope will give you LR4 acoustic summing flat with the sub.

Dougie is working on a pair of MTMWWWW with RS180 woofers, TB W4 1337mids, and XT25 double magnet tweeter.

[Hdale85]

Yeah thats about what I had planned on. He was talking about actively crossing or something though? Anyways when all this stuff gets built I'll play with it.

[ThomasW]

Yeah I certainly understand your concern with the warranty info. Partsexpress has listed on their site that the Audiopulse warranty is to go through them. This is what it says on their site.

I'm well aware of what the warranty stays and that's not the point. When paying for an expensive driver a person should be able to get it reconed at a point in the future.

What would you think about 2 sonotubes with 2 Tempest-x's in each? Sealed one on top and one on bottom. Guessing they would have to be wired out of phase.

Like this? The drivers are wired in phase..

http://home.comcast.net/~audio-worx/page88Tube-Zilla1.html

[Hdale85]

Ok well I didn't think about it that hard. That looks rather nice though.... Have to take it into consideration. Of course probably wouldn't do as well as an IXL 18?

[kingpin]

Dougie. I made a mistake on my sizing.
My subs are exactly 26x26x14 outside size made of 1"mdf and baltic birch baffle.
Interior size is exactly 4cu.ft.
Hmm I may have to add some stuffing as I think the optimum size was 4.5cu.ft.

Either way they sound amazing the way they are now.

Mike

[Hdale85]

Yeah they look pretty nice. I would have to make some sort of grills to keep my son out of them though lol. That would be a nice part about the sonosubs. I'll have to think on it a bit.

[impala454]

Yeah I've just heard they have some noisy fans.

Yeah they do. I have to admit I was a little disappointed with how loud the fan is. Though once I get a house and set everything up "properly" I'm going to try to set up a rack in a closet near the TV, so that won't matter. The thing sounds great though and definitely has some cajones :B.

p.s. I'd imagine if your listening positions are far enough from the amp, the fan noise won't be as big of a deal. Though I would put it on par with having a "normal" PC in the room. It might not seem loud until you turn it off (if that makes sense).

[---k---]

It is pretty easy to mod the amp with a quiet computer fan.

[impala454]

Do you know off hand what size it is?

[Hdale85]

Hmm.... yeah my room is like 17x13 so I don't think I'll be far enough away

[Hdale85]

What size what is? The fan? Probably an 80mm or something.

[impala454]

Yeah the fan

[yousuredo2]

P9739-ND For the Fan Mod
I Just ordered it and the ep2500

I did a search in goggle, Avs, & and here...
that one was listed the most.
CJD a member here had a bad link to his How To or I would have gave you that too.

[Hdale85]

Hmm well thats an option for sure. I didn't see any noise specs for that fan. If 25cfm is enough then you can get some very quiet fans.

[Dennis H]

It's 24 cfm, 21 dB and was recommended by the QSC sales manager a few years back. Make sure you get a 24 volt fan when you're shopping. They can be a bit hard to find.

http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/appliance/pdf/fba08a.pdf

[Hdale85]

Well thats certainly quiet

[impala454]

P9739-ND For the Fan Mod
I Just ordered it and the ep2500

I did a search in goggle, Avs, & and here...
that one was listed the most.
CJD a member here had a bad link to his How To or I would have gave you that too.

Thanks! now to find some other stuff to get at digi-key... :twisted:

[Hdale85]

They carry a lot of stuff. Speaker spikes those little terminal strips we like to use... caps resistors all sorts of stuff.