The "Tombstones" Build Thread

[Paul Ebert]

Geez guys, start a new thread. Half the posts are about Lambda drivers.

Sorry, Jed! We're just jealous, 'cause we can't afford such $$ drivers. Well, maybe I should only speak for myself.

I've wondered for a long time how the W26 performs.

[Jed]

Aw, Jed, you know trying to keep us HTG ruffians on topic is like trying to herd cats.

:rofl: Yeah, I know- don't know what I was thinking. Honestly though, that Lambda driver probably does deserve a thorough discussion. They look pretty nice but from what I heard hard to get. The Seas drivers I'm using are expensive but readily available. Dayton is the best value out there but there are so many projects with them. Seas Excel should be better but at the cost of diminishing returns? I guess it depends on one's perspective.

Dougie, the Waveguide tweeter I'm using is the DXT dome assembly on a Seas H1212 motor.

[Hdale85]

So about 100 bucks.

[Jed]

So about 100 bucks.

I sold the leftover parts to recoup some of the costs. $45 and someone got a pair of non-ferro H1212s for a good deal.

[dlneubec]

Alrighty then. That looks like the PHL 1120 with its distinctive flat surround. Looking at the thread on AC, we've got:

Lambda TD12H
PHL 1120
Morel MDT33
450 LR2
2.5K LR4

I imagine a talented XO designer could klone the speaker and come pretty close to the sound but kloning Jim Salk's woodwork would be another matter.

Hi Dennis,

I'm seriously thinking of doing a lower budget version of this design and have been doing some driver research and concept design. I'll start a new thread on it called "High Sensitivity/Pro driver Design" for anyone interested. After hearing the Salk/Bagby design, I'm stoked to see what I can come up with. Sorry for the off topic post Jed, I just wanted to let folks know I would start a thread to discuss this approach.

[Jed]

The picture below shows the iron on veneer glue applied to the surface. In this picture it is still wet. I used a hairdryer to dry the glue and painters tape to keep the glue off the finished sides that have veneer in place. Then I ironed on the veneer when the glue was dry.





Getting the veneer on the cabinets is almost complete. I've been using that special iron-on wood glue from joewoodworker.com and it is awesome. No bubbles and the bond is really strong. I've used titebond before, but now that I know about this stuff I'm never going back.

You can also see my veneering tools on the second speaker. I cut the veneer with a veneer saw. I also have a little router bit that I use to flush trim the speaker cutouts. It wouldn't have worked for me to router out the holes after I mounted the front panel.

So far I'm really pleased how these are turning out. The veneer is a curly cherry from joewoodworker.com/veneersupplies.com. Not sure how it compares to the cheaper flat cut cherry veneer, but this stuff is pretty nice. I can't wait to get a stain on them so if you guys have any suggestions for a super nice finish let me know.

Jed

[augerpro]

Looking good Jed. What do you mean about the routering? I wonder if it is easier to route after the veneer is applied? Do you plan to trim the veneer fairly close to the driver cut out and then use the trim bit to finish up?

[Hdale85]

Wow Jed, veneering already! Those look great. As for a finish how about some plain boiled linseed oil? I always love how it just makes the grain pop like it does.

[Jed]

Looking good Jed. What do you mean about the routering? I wonder if it is easier to route after the veneer is applied? Do you plan to trim the veneer fairly close to the driver cut out and then use the trim bit to finish up?

The baffle cutouts for the drivers were done prior to veneering, then I flush trim the veneer using a little router bit. The top of the sealed cabinet is too close to the lower midrange hole to use a circle jig and cut out the holes after the veneer is applied, otherwise, yeah, it would be easier to route the holes after the veneer is applied.

Jed

[dlneubec]

HI Jed,

They look very nice. IMHO, don't stain them. The curly cherry is gog to be beautiful as it is and the stain will simply mask the natural color. I'd simply use some type of clear finish on them to enhance the natural color in the wood. Of course, this will darken them substantially all on its own.

[Paul Ebert]

Thanks, Jed, for the tip on the iron-on glue. I'll give it a try when I get to that point. Is your veneer raw or backed?

As for finish, for furniture I use tung oil - looks fantastic on cherry. For projects I deem to not be furniture grade and/or to be in need of a more protective finish, I use polyurethane. I don't like the plastic look of poly on my furniture (and I'm willing to replenish the finish every three years or so).

I, too, plan to veneer after routing since I'm afraid I might screw up and I don't want to be out the cost of the veneer (this is my first build and my first attempt at veneering). If I'm seeing correctly, you use an exacto knife of some sort (the black and yellow pen, thing). Is it easy to get a good clean edge with the knife? I figure I'll use a bearing guided router bit for the circular cutouts, but the D26 cutouts will require additional work.

[Jed]

I thought I would just outline some of the steps I followed after I constructed the cabinets and had the holes cut.

1- Apply Glue to the veneer paper back using a "sqeegee roller". In my case, I used 10 mil paper backed. Heat lock is excellent for this and you only need one nice thick yet even coat.

2- Glue the sides and tape where appropriate, and then apply veneer after glue is dry. I used a hairdryer to speed up the drying. I used a clothes iron on the highest setting to affix the veneer and veneer saw to cut the overlapping veneer. I used the exacto blade for only a few cuts where I couldn't use the veneer saw. I used a straight edge and worked my way through the veneer on the top edge where the curve intersects the straight side.

3- I did the bottom, back, sides, front, and then the top in that order. It just depends on how you want the seams positioned.

4- Make sure you completely sand all the edges before going onto the next side, so it is completely flush to the edge.

5- I only used a router to flush trim the veneer on the curve on the top as my veneer saw likes straight cuts. I then sanded it lightly to flush.

6- I'm using a tiny flush trim bit to cut out the cirlces in the veneer for the front baffle. I had to have the bearing on the flush trim bit grinded down so it would fit without extending too far into the driver recess cutout.

7- Investigating a nice finish. I did some searching online and some people recommend 1/3 Linseed Oil, 1/3 Turpentine, 1/3 Beeswax all melted and stirred together. Another person recommended Oil based Poly mixed with 50% mineral spirits and then wipe on.

I'll probably be doing a bunch of tests to see what I like best.

Jed

[Martyn]

There's certainly no shortage of recipes for finishes! Try searching the Fine Woodworking forum (Taunton Press) - there's a very high level of expertise there.

[augerpro]

Dan I wonder if that Dad's wipe on poly would be a good alternative to the tung oil, as far as not masking the color too much?

[Brian Bunge]

The Old Dad's wipe on poly is awesome stuff. Not plastic looking at all. In other words, not like Minwax. My big towers were finished in figured cherry veneer and then I used a 50/50 mixture of boiled linseed oil and naptha. The Naptha helps to speed the drying process. I was able to do 4 coats in one day. Then the next day I started the first of the 8 coats of gloss poly from Old Dad's.

Here is the final result:

[Jed]

Thanks Brian, that is what I'm looking for.

[augerpro]

Brian do think it would have kept more of it's blondish color if you just used teh poly, and not the linseed oil?

[Hdale85]

I love that finish of Brian's. I'm not sure I'd like it to be as blond as the unfinished wood. I believe when you put anything on cherry though it darkens.

[seeker]

I love that finish of Brian's. I'm not sure I'd like it to be as blond as the unfinished wood. I believe when you put anything on cherry though it darkens.

You are correct Dougie. Cherry noticibly darkens with any finish, and all woods darken to some degree. And over time if exposed to sunlight, they will continue to darken. Finishes with UV blockers, I think, are more hype than pure fact. Yes, they will allow more time before the darkening and the finishes themselves may not "yellow" as bad as others, but it's still just a matter of time.

The Sun is the most powerful natural force in our universe, and no amount of marketing can overcome it.

[Brian Bunge]

It's basically not as deep of a caramel color, although it will get that way naturally over time.

Here's some other figured cherry (different run) with 5 coats of semi-gloss poly, which is also Old Dad's.

[Hdale85]

Wow that piece has a beautiful grain

[Brian Bunge]

Yes, I miss that veneer a lot. I originally bought enough to do my speakers in that as well but then used some scrap on something else and ended up not having enough for myself. The stuff I ended up with was still pretty nice.

[Jed]

Really nice finish work there Brian. I still have to veneer the front panel, sand, and I'll be ready to do some experimentation! :T

If I work like crazy for the rest of the week I might have some time late this weekend to begin my measurement sessions. I plan on taking many more measurements than usual to maximize the power response simulations. That might be a bit ambitious to get done by the end of the weekend, we'll see.

[Jed]

Is Old Dad's an oil based poly?

[Brian Bunge]

It is oil-based but is not as bad as many I believe. It definitely does not smell too bad. I can use it inside without running everyone out of the house. IIRC, there is some more info. on their website.

https://www.olddads.com

[seeker]

Sweet!

[Jed]

Finished the veneer

The veneering process went really well with that new Heat Lock veneer glue. I ended up using a tiny router bit to trim the veneer in the driver cutout holes. It has an extra small bearing to allow it to go in the recesses. I had to grind it down so it wouldn't be too deep. Sorry about the grainy pics. Low light and not enough battery power for flash.


I cut the veneer for the rear cutouts with an exacto knife through the front hole, and then sanded it smooth after I got it close to perfect from behind.


Next I will use boiled linseed oil and an oil based poly diluted 50% with mineral spirits and wipe on the finish. That will take me all week I imagine. Hopefully the weather will be nice here.

[Jed]

With the selected drivers sitting in place:

[Hdale85]

Those look great

[ttan98]

Very nice, I wish I have some ot your patient, carpentery skill and attention to detail as you.

After you have enough with this pair it would be easy for you to sell them.

[Jed]

Thanks guys. I've got 2 coats of poly on them right now. Might have time for a 3rd coat tonight and then I'll do 2 more coats tomorrow. I'm really pleased with how this is turning out. Usually I get impatient and just take measurements in MDF unfinished boxes. Not this time!

[CupCak3]

Amazing work Jed! I've been narrowing down veneers to buy for my new boxes and this cherry is definately on my short list...


What did you like better about the Heat-Lock vs the Titebond? And why did you opt for a veneer saw over a fluch trim bit for flushing the box edges?

[Hdale85]

I've heard about some people having issues with chipping and what not with the flush trim. Maybe that has something to do with it? I think the veneer saw is just less likely to screw anything up.

[Brian Bunge]

Never had a bit of trouble with chipping with a flush trim bit on cherry veneer. Maybe a little bit on oak if the bit was not sharp.

I think for the rounded cabinets I'm doing I'll need a veneer saw where the curved sides meet the front and the back.

[CupCak3]

Never had a bit of trouble with chipping with a flush trim bit on cherry veneer. Maybe a little bit on oak if the bit was not sharp.

I think for the rounded cabinets I'm doing I'll need a veneer saw where the curved sides meet the front and the back.

if you have xacto knife or razor blade around,one of them should be able to do the trick if its just the corner (and you won't have to worry about spending the $$$ on the saw)

[Jed]

I've found that I have more control with the saw. The cut is a bit closer so less sanding as well. With proper technique you never mess up the corners either.

That stated, I used a flush trim router bit for the round top section and a smaller one for the driver recesses.

[Jed]

Amazing work Jed! I've been narrowing down veneers to buy for my new boxes and this cherry is definately on my short list...


What did you like better about the Heat-Lock vs the Titebond? And why did you opt for a veneer saw over a fluch trim bit for flushing the box edges?

Thanks Cupcak3-- I like the Heat Lock better because it immediately bonds with heat. No airbubbles etc and it seems to work well with one good coat.

[Brian Bunge]

I'll have to order the Heat-Lock then! Sounds like the way to go.

[Jed]

5 coats of Arm R Seal semi gloss oil based wipe-on poly mixture:



Adding dampening materials tomorrow and I'll probably get around to some testing if I'm lucky.

[Jim Holtz]

Those look great Jed! I've been silently following your project. I'm looking forward to see how it progresses. I think you're going to really like di-poles if you can get them away from the walls far enough.

Jim

[jkrutke]

Looks awesome, Jed. I use heat lock also. With heat lock, I've been able to do a couple veneer jobs that didn't suck. The trick for me was getting it smooth and level so no lumps would show up after ironing.

[Jed]

Thanks guys.

To get the glue smooth I used this roller and it worked perfectly.

http://www.veneersupplies.com/product_info.php?products_id=382

[Hdale85]

Wow Jed those look fantastic.....really making me want to spend some extra on veneer and get the figured cherry

[DPA101]

Nice work Jed. Looking forward to your notes from a critical listening session.

[Jed]

Nice work Jed. Looking forward to your notes from a critical listening session.

Drivers installed ready for testing. More pictures coming tomorrow. Critical listening will occur over a span of a month or so. The crossovers will be external for awhile so I can tweak them easily. I'm hoping this won't be a pain to tune, like my last expensive 3-way which I basically gave up on because I couldn't get the woofer to integrate as well as I would have liked with the midrange. This effort is after I learned a thing or two from that endeavor, though, so I don't think I'll run into the same issues.

Jed