Iowa DIY speaker event this Saturday, Oct. 27th

[Jim Holtz]

Doug doesn't frequent HT Guide so I thought I'd post a reminder that the Iowa DIY Speaker event will be held this Saturday, October 27th at the Grinnell College theater. Here's a link to the website for all of the info:

http://home.mchsi.com/~iowadiy2007/index.html

This year looks like it's going to be the biggest event yet.

See you there!

Jim

[---k---]

If all goes as planned, I'll be there with the Khanspires. I'm looking forward to hearing how they stack up against some of the other great designers out there.

Jim, I don't make it to PE much so I appreciate the updates and reminders. Do you have any info on the Demo material and electronics going to be used?

[Jim Holtz]

If all goes as planned, I'll be there with the Khanspires. I'm looking forward to hearing how they stack up against some of the other great designers out there.

Jim, I don't make it to PE much so I appreciate the updates and reminders. Do you have any info on the Demo material and electronics going to be used?

Hi Ryan,

The demo material consists of 5 or 10 one minute cuts from various songs selected by Doug that highlight treble, mid range, bass, male vocal and female vocals. Everyone plays the first five tracks. You then have a choice of playing up to a five minute song or playing the next five one minute cuts on the demo disk. It wouldn't be appropriate for me to list the cuts. Doug might share them if you email him. I can tell you that it includes, jazz, blues, pop, classical and rock. Something for everyone. All speakers are volume matched, BTW.

Scott Quick is bringing the electronics again this year so it should be a Parasound 200 watt amp, a custom built preamp and a modified DVD player for a source. They are very clean and nice sounding.

I'm looking forward to meeting you and hearing your speakers.

Jim

[---k---]

I'm looking forward to meeting you and hearing your speakers.

Jim

Definitely the same.

Yeah, I emailed Doug earlier. I just know how busy he's been and figured more people would like the info. I'm going to have to start thinking about 5 minutes of music of my choice, there are so many options....

[mmoeller]

Looking forward to another fantastic meeting. Can't wait to enjoy the great designs.

See ya'll Saturday.

[---k---]

Jim,
Is there anything I need to bring other than my speakers?

[cjd]

Bring music, water, a pillow. Maybe earplugs. You'd be surprised how much listening fatigue can be a royal pain. Take breaks.

C

[LoopinFool]

As of now, I'm planning to make it to the event.
It sounds like a blast, and a great introduction to the many size/cost/complexity choices available to the DIY speaker builder.
I haven't built anything yet, and I'm hoping this will help with future decisions. It sounds well worth the ~8hrs of driving and a one-night hotel stay!

- LoopinFool

[Jim Holtz]

Jim,
Is there anything I need to bring other than my speakers?

Hi Ryan,

The only thing you'll need is a song up to 5 minutes in length that you feel shows off your speakers. Here is the process we go through.

Each speaker owner/designer gets a total of about 15 minutes to present their speakers. The first 5 minutes are spent setting the speakers up and explaining them to the listening audience. You can have hand outs if you like or you can direct interested individuals to the HT Guide build thread for details. Your choice.

The second 5 minutes are spent playing the first 5 tracks of the demo disk after level matching the speakers. Everyone plays the first five tracks.

Then you have the option of playing up to a five minute song of your choosing or there are another 5 tracks on the demo disk that can be played.

During this time, the listening audience will be filling out forms evaluating your speakers which are turned in and tabulated. At the end of the day you'll get the forms so you can go through them to see what the feedback is. That information is for you only and scores are not posted or shared. Only the highest rated speaker will be so designated. The feedback is anonymous and helpful in figuring out the strengths and weaknesses of your speakers.

Chris is correct in that the day can be fatiguing after hearing a large amount of speakers but we do take breaks and lunch etc. to get rejuvenated. No sleeping allowed Chris!

It will be a fun and memorable experience. Once you attend one of these your hooked!

I'm really looking forward to it! :T

Jim

[Jim Holtz]

As of now, I'm planning to make it to the event.
It sounds like a blast, and a great introduction to the many size/cost/complexity choices available to the DIY speaker builder.
I haven't built anything yet, and I'm hoping this will help with future decisions. It sounds well worth the ~8hrs of driving and a one-night hotel stay!

- LoopinFool

Welcome aboard! Please come up and introduce yourself when you arrive. I'll be the old guy wandering around.

Jim

[Brian Walter]

Welcome aboard! Please come up and introduce yourself when you arrive. I'll be the old guy wandering around.

Jim

Jim, you won't be the only "Old Guy" wandering around. My nickname at home is "The Old Guy".

Brian

[Jim Holtz]

Jim, you won't be the only "Old Guy" wandering around. My nickname at home is "The Old Guy".

Brian

Ya, but us old guys stick together. You find one and you'll find them all. :rofl:

Jim

[LoopinFool]

On the road home now...

I want to send out a big thank you to everyone who went to the Iowa DIY event.

It was a privilege to audition everyone's hard work. What a variety!

All told, we listened to 31 pairs of speakers, from hold-in-one-hand tiny to the Statements.

- LoopinFool

[---k---]

Just got home... Midnight here in Chicago. It was a great time. A lot of impressive speakers. I'm still a little amped up from the caffeine used to get me home, so am checking in to see in any impressions were posted, but a write up of my thoughts will have to wait until tomorrow or monday.

[Hdale85]

Just got home... Midnight here in Chicago. It was a great time. A lot of impressive speakers. I'm still a little amped up from the caffeine used to get me home, so am checking in to see in any impressions were posted, but a write up of my thoughts will have to wait until tomorrow or monday.

Not even a short little hint as to how you felt about some of the speakers? Really wondering how you thought the statements were compared to the khanspires.

[---k---]

I'm even happier now with mine then I was before I went to Iowa. I thought the Khans did extremely well. I thought they were very competitive with all but the most expensive 3 or 4 speakers. Without spending more time with each in a room more suiting, I don't think it would be fair to pick a winner.

Beyond that, I think I'll let other people comment on my speakers first.

[Jim Holtz]

A great event!

This was the largest and best attended Iowa event so far. A big thanks to everyone that came and especially to those that drove so far to join us. You helped make Iowa a great event.

I'm not going to comment too much because I had designs that I'm associated with in the Mid and unlimited class. I could be a bit biased.

The knock out for me in the budget class was Undefinition's di-pole design. He designed it himself and I thought it sounded great. Excellent job Paul! Wolf just about owned the Super Budget and Budget groups with his many excellent designs. I don't know how he builds so many speakers??? 8O

Unlike last year, the mid class was smaller this year. However, there were several excellent sounding speakers in this group. I also had the Mini Statements entered which turned out to be my disappointment of the day. The mids and highs were great but the bass was boomy. I'm still trying to get rested up from the extremely long day yeserday so the Mini's are still in the car. Later today, they'll get unloaded and checked out. All I can say is the bass has never been anything but clean and tight here at home or at Curt's house so I'm still scratching my head over this one.

The Unlimited class had many, many fine speakers entered. Todd Premo's Statements, of course. John Pastuck's most unusual and great sounding design, Dan N.'s HOSS omni design, Paul K's exceptional sounding 3-way, The Khanspire's by CJD and built by Ryan (yes, Chris, they sounded great), Wolf's Scandivifas and Jake Parsons excellent Seas Excel MTM's. I apologize if I missed anyone but those are the designs that popped into my head. Yes, I was very happy with the Statements performance but I'll let others comment on their sound rather than me. :B

All sounded great and showed the true dedication to the DIY speaker building hobby that makes it so much fun. Many hours of hard work went into designing and building the many speakers we listened to yesterday. Kudo's to all! :T

Iowa was just a killer event and we owe our thanks to ;x( Doug and his family for all the time and effort they put forth to make it happen.

Jim

[cjd]

Ahh Jim. The copy & paste master.

[kingpin]

Haha

:rofl: :rofl:

[Jim Holtz]

Ahh Jim. The copy & paste master.

How many ways can you say the same thing? Did you have questions?

Jim

[ThomasW]

This was the largest and best attended Iowa event so far. A big thanks to everyone that came and especially to those that drove so far to join us. You helped make Iowa a great event.

To bad no one there could afford a camera.... :rofl:

[Mazeroth]

I'm glad everything turned out well for you guys. I was thinking of coming out there but with the new house and me dumping a few grand into it already I don't think I could swing it, especially past the wife!

Do you or someone else plan on putting up a picture page? I'd love to see all the designs and am really curious about Undefinition's budget dipoles. :T

[Jim Holtz]

To bad no one there could afford a camera.... :rofl:

Hi Thomas,

Actually, I took about 60 pictures but many didn't come out all that good. I've cleaned up a few that I'll attach since I don't have hosting ability. Doug will have lots of pictures on his website within a week plus the out come etc. I do apologize that I didn't get a picture while Ryan was presenting the Khans. I was very interested in hearing them and I spaced off snapping a picture. Doug did get pictures of everyone however.

BTW, shooting photos in a theater is challenging because of the low light. It was tough!

Jim

[Jim Holtz]

A few more Iowa photos..

A few more shots from Iowa...

Jim

[cjd]

It's always so much fun to see the reverence folks treat all the equipment with.

What an incredible looking lineup. Wish I coulda been there. Though with the way I've felt this weekend I think I'm glad I didn't try. Would not have been fun for me.

And Jim: whether you're biased or not, I *still* like to hear your thoughts on stuff. Being biased doesn't mean you don't have a good ear or a good way with words.

One question: I've heard some comments about bass issues. Do you think sealed systems fared better than ported in this venue?

C

[Jim Holtz]

It's always so much fun to see the reverence folks treat all the equipment with.

What an incredible looking lineup. Wish I coulda been there. Though with the way I've felt this weekend I think I'm glad I didn't try. Would not have been fun for me.

And Jim: whether you're biased or not, I *still* like to hear your thoughts on stuff. Being biased doesn't mean you don't have a good ear or a good way with words.

One question: I've heard some comments about bass issues. Do you think sealed systems fared better than ported in this venue?

C

Hi Chris,

It was a great time. It's really too bad you couldn't have been there. I think you would have really enjoyed it. Iowa attendees tend to really take listening and evaluation seriously. Each speaker is given most everyones full attention while playing and then forms are submitted. Doug is going to either scan the feedback forms and email them to each designer for their design or drop them in the mail. Feedback does vary depending on where the listener sat and what they like but in the end it does provide some valuable feedback for the designer.

The bass thing. I'll be darned if I can figure it out. I just unloaded the Mini's, set them up in my living room and played the test tracks plus the music I took along and the bass is great. Go figure! :cry: Honestly, overall, I thought the theater was a good venue without any particular room modes.

The only other speaker I was familiar with was Jake Parsons Seas MTM's since he'd had them at my house. They did seem to have more bass at the event than they did here. They're a sealed Seas Excel W15 MTM so deep bass isn't their strong suite. Todds Statements sounded great, IMHO with bass just as it should have been. The Khans sounded right on the money to my ears. I had RS 3-ways sealed so the sound was very similar in the bass and extension region. Very nice, clean and tight. I love the bass capabilities of the RS225's.

Bottom line, beats he** outa me. It was disappointing for me to not have the Mini's sound as good as they do in my home though. Oh well, there will be another time.

BTW, I appreciate your remarks and confidence. Honestly, there were so many really excellent sounding speakers in all classes that it's hard to pinpoint specific ones. Ryan's Khans sound really excellent, Dan N's HOSS speakers sounded excellent too but needed to be cranked up to sound their best. Beautiful cabinet work, BTW. Paul K's Calianti (sp) 3-ways designed by Rick Craig sounded really good. John Pastuck's very unusual design sounded wonderful. Honestly, the list goes on...

The sound quality bar has raised so much over the last few years. I don't know if the drivers are getting better or the designers are getting better but sound quality goes up a notch each year. There were several designs with the W4's and I'll be the first to state that I think it's just a killer driver that doesn't take a back seat to Scans, Excels or Accutons. Quite amazing, IMHO. I was also very interested in hearing the RS52's since I have a pair. They are very nice but I like the W4's better. My opinion of course. YMMV...

Jim

[---k---]

Yeah, I thought the bass was a bit boomy on ALL of the designs. I didn't notice it as much on mine, but I was focusing more on observing people's reactions and facial expressions. But, I think I was the only large sealed design. Everyone else was either ported or TL. The tweeters also seemed a bit hot across the board.

I think the two that impressed me the most was the Parsons Seas Excel MTM and John's Alien things. Man those last ones were incredible, but I'm still not sure why.

I would really like to get into my room for further listening: Scott's RS150/Neo MT, the Statements, Paul's Open Baffle (this may be likely in the spring, he is in Chicagoland/ Palatine) and Parsons Seas Excel MTM.

Well, I need to go check out PE and see the folks are saying...

[Brian Walter]

One question: I've heard some comments about bass issues. Do you think sealed systems fared better than ported in this venue?C

Chris,

In my opinion, yes. But there were so few sealed systems, it's hard to say for certain. I may be wrong, but I think a lot of the systems are voiced for smaller rooms where you don't have things turned up as loud so that when you get into a large venue as we had, the bass somehow becomes much louder. This seems back-wards to me, because you would expect more room gain in the smaller rooms, but that surely wasn't the case. Our room was so large that a well designed pro-sound system probably would have put all the designs to shame. I would have to say the best bass of the whole event had to be from Paul K's 3-way with the mass loaded tapered quarter wave tube design. The Statements and Dan N.'s speakers were very similar in the bass department and in my judgment just behind Paul's, and the Kanspires just behind those. Keep in mind the ranking would probably change in a smaller room.

In response to Jim's comment about being disappointed in his Mini-Statements, all I can say is that I listened to them at his house on Friday and the bass wasn't boomy at all, like they were in the auditorium. I'm not sure exactly what was going on, but several speakers were affected in a similar manner. Just one more example of why you need to audition speakers in the room where you intend to listen to them and with the electronics you intend to use.

My hearing certainly isn't as good as most of the people attending, but there really wasn't a bad speaker in the bunch, all the way from Wolf's door knob speakers up to John Pastuck's or Dan N's. elaborate setups. Having listened to two of the top speakers in their creators homes (Jim's Statements and John Pastuck's ?) they both sounded better in their homes.

It would be very hard to pick a winner in the top unlimited class as their strengths and weakness varied from one to the next. If I had to pick a speaker to put in my house, it would be Paul K's 3 way. They simply came closer to meeting my priorities better. If I had a home theater room like Jim Holtz, then I would probably pick the statements. The looks of John's and Dan's speakers wouldn't fit my house, so I wouldn't go with them, but they both sounded awesome. If I was limited on space and cost was no object, Jake Parson's Seas Excel MTM's would be my pick. To me they had fantastic imaging and sound stage with just about the most musical bass of the group, but they simply didn't go very deep. Even though my hearing isn't the best, IMHO that Seas Excel tweeter has to be the smoothest most natural sounding tweeter I have ever heard.

There were so many speakers there it is hard to even remember them all let alone describe them. I could go on and on about my perceptions but if you were to ask someone else you would likely get a completely different story. I guess you simply had to be there.

And as others have said, a Big Thank You to Doug and his family for all the hard work, they did an excellent job. :T

Brian Walter

[Brian Walter]

A couple more things

In my haste, I forgot to mention Wolf's ScandaVifa's or whatever he called them. They really sounded excellent. Unfortunately, I heard them mostly from way up by the entrance (we didn't stop for breaks). Also Dave Ellis brought his Ellis 1801B and 1801C speakers to the event. The 1801B sounds very similar to what I recall the 1801A sounding and the "C" version is also very similar. For simple 2 ways, (Wolf's included), they simply sound excellent. Nothing fancy, simply great sound.

Brian Walter

[cjd]

I wonder if there was something up with the electronics causing the tweeter issue. Heck, coulda mucked with bass too, some of these demand a helluva lot out of an amp. I know the RS line is quite sensitive to a little dirt in the amp stage (I had a bad amp that was bloody obvious on the larger 3-ways I have, and Ryan's A500 is doing something funky too IMO).

I wonder if we should have more "on the fly" categories with some selected judges - particularly in the very broad Unlimited class, where you can have speakers that are barely bumped into the group competing with... well... really unlimited budget speakers. Dennis Murphy's comments got me pondering this. Not sure how the heck it would work out though.

I wonder too if the mini-statements weren't so much boomy as they were very weak in the midrange. Again, electronics could play a role, and the open back might (or might not) also have had a part in it.

Maybe it's time to start looking more seriously at our playback equipment and making sure it's really really robust. I remember some problems at the Chicago event a couple years ago with noise in the pre-amp (I recall it was also a prototype?). My own tinkering with amps (and the pain it was to get my pre working properly)... ugh.

C

[kingpin]

A nice comment by Dennis Murphy.
Best integrated 3-way: The Khanspire's, crossover by CJD

Mike

[Jim Holtz]

I wonder too if the mini-statements weren't so much boomy as they were very weak in the midrange. Again, electronics could play a role, and the open back might (or might not) also have had a part in it.
C

Hi Chris,

Jake and I were just chatting via email and he brought up a good point that went along with Brian's thoughts. Jake noted that the stage was hollow and a down firing port could cause the stage to act somewhat like a drum. I don't know. I certainly foiund it baffling.

Curt and I were concerned about the midrange too but it wasn't a problem. I thought the mids and top end were really excellent on the Mini's. I had a great big smile until a heavy bass track started to play. Curt and I were clear in the back of the theater by the coffee stand while the Mini's played and the boomy bass was painfully obvious clear back there. Yes. I did start swearing. ops:

Todd did a rear firing port on his Statements which could be why the bass sounded so good on them. Paul K. also didn't have any bass issues with his TL cabinet design.

Jim

[Brian Bunge]

Jim,

Do you know anything about those WWMTMWW's in your second set of pics? The woofers look like the DA175's but I can't make out the rest.

Sure do wish I coulda been there.

[rj45]

Hi Chris,

Jake and I were just chatting via email and he brought up a good point that went along with Brian's thoughts. Jake noted that the stage was hollow and a down firing port could cause the stage to act somewhat like a drum. I don't know. I certainly foiund it baffling.

Todd did a rear firing port on his Statements which could be why the bass sounded so good on them. Paul K. also didn't have any bass issues with his TL cabinet design.

Jim

I wasn't there, but it seems like a lot of stages are fairly "live" in the mid bass. Makes sense that the power output of a down-firing port could transfer some energy into a wooden floor.

I'll bet an orchestral upright bass player would know.

re: the Mini's mid range.
I know you'll voiced them to stand about 24" off the back wall. In a bigger hall you'll miss a lot of that reinforcement.

FWIW,
-Don

[Jim Holtz]

Jim,

Do you know anything about those WWMTMWW's in your second set of pics? The woofers look like the DA175's but I can't make out the rest.

Sure do wish I coulda been there.

Hi Brian,

That is Maynard Goff's design. Maynard actually lives in Florida. I'm not sure exactly where but he's an avid DIY guy and a very nice person. He is from Iowa originally. He's not missed an Iowa event for years. :T

Anyway, the woofers are DA175's with I believe Seas CA12's for the mids using an open back design. They sounded darn good. Maynard builds them by ear which always amazes me how good his designs sound.

Fun stuff! You're going to have to make the trek to Iowa one of these years.

Jim

[Jim Holtz]

I wasn't there, but it seems like a lot of stages are fairly "live" in the mid bass. Makes sense that the power output of a down-firing port could transfer some energy into a wooden floor.

I'll bet an orchestral upright bass player would know.

re: the Mini's mid range.
I know you'll voiced them to stand about 24" off the back wall. In a bigger hall you'll miss a lot of that reinforcement.

FWIW,
-Don

Hi Don,

The floor and hollow stage are the only things that seem to make any sense of the boomy bass. I'm listening to them right now and they sound great. Just as designed.

The Mini's and Statements were both designed to work well with only about 18" clearance from the back of the speaker to the wall. We had some concerns about the very large venue but the Mini's, the Statements and all of the other open back/di-pole speakers did really well soundstage wise without a rear reinforcement wall. You couldn't mistake the expansive soundstage when an open back design came up. The differences weren't subtle.

Jim

[Jim Holtz]

A nice comment by Dennis Murphy.
Best integrated 3-way: The Khanspire's, crossover by CJD

Mike

That is a very nice compliment coming from Dennis. :T

Jim

[cjd]

That is a very nice compliment coming from Dennis. :T

Jim

Yeah. I don't really know what to say but.. "Gosh! thanks!" Kinda speechless, really. And knowing me, that's saying an awful lot.

[Brian Bunge]

Jim,

I thought Maynard looked familiar. I think I may have met him at Chuck's place when he did the DIY event in Palm Bay in the spring of last year. IIRC, he's over in the Tampa area somewhere.

[rj45]

Hi Don,

The Mini's and Statements were both designed to work well with only about 18" clearance from the back of the speaker to the wall. We had some concerns about the very large venue but the Mini's, the Statements and all of the other open back/di-pole speakers did really well soundstage wise without a rear reinforcement wall. You couldn't mistake the expansive soundstage when an open back design came up. The differences weren't subtle.
Jim

Now that I think about it, if the open back mids sounded well balanced wrt to the tweeters in the theater and at home, that proves the hall didn't lower the midrange so the bass woudl sound heavier.
Well, that leaves the floor of the stage causing a boom in bass.

[---k---]

My ears aren't that well calibrated, so my thoughts should be taken with a grain of salt....My Iowa impressions:

General comments:

We were probably listening at a hair too low of volume for all but the first three rows. Where you sat madebig differences with many designs. I moved around from the third row to the 6th row to the back quite a bit, but was typically straight in front of the left speaker. I thought the room made several of the designs be a bit boomy and the tweeters a bit hot.

I was really looking forward to hearing the ribbon designs, and there were several. But, I'm embarrassed to admit that I couldn't really tell a difference with the better designs. Maybe it was the room, however I discussed it briefly with Dennis Murphy, and he said that he had done a lot of A/B listening and with stereo pairs the differences isn't that audible. So, I didn't feel as bad then.

It was a great time, but by the end of the day, my ears were shot, and I couldn't tell a thing anymore. Like I said, there were a probably a half dozen that I wish I could have dug into and done some real listening to.

Super Budget:
Wolfs Single Drivers experiments. This was a real eye opener. He had several single driver boxes that sounded great. Especially at the price of $1 for some.

Scott's RS150/Neo Ribbon: I was very impressed with this little Budget Class MT. The biggest surprise out of it for me was the bass. I just wasn't expecting that much from the RS150. I shouldn't have been, having heard CJD's RS150 MTM in my house, but that little guy impressed me. But it was a real nice, cute speaker.

ModulaMT: I was a bit suprised that it was a Budget class design ($100 - $300). I'm probably biased from hanging out here so much, but I thought this one just killed the Budget class and several in the Mid class. It was the ported version with the Seas tweeter. It was silky smooth, good detail, and great base. I don't think I've ever heard bass like that out of a box that small. I think I was most surprised because JonW had brought his up to my place a while ago, and I didn't have as strong reaction to his as I did to these.

Modula In-Wall: Not sure how accurate it was with a small piece of the stud wall. It wasn't as good as the previous 'regular version'. But, for an in-wall, I thought it was really good. If that were my SAF limits, I would be building it.

Paul's Athers - An Open Baffle speaker. It definitely sounded more open and spacious, especially on the the Mozart piece. I started thinking, hey maybe there is something to this OB thing. Paul is local and said that he would be willing to hang out sometime after he gets married (sheash.. priorities!)

Scott's Velvet Hammer - This was an Adire Extremis w/ Seas tweeter in the Mid class. They were great. Not surprising, they had good hard hitting bass with good extension - probably better than the ModulaMT. But surprising to me they also had good detail and didn't sound sloppy. I think I've hung around the wrong people and become a metal cone snob, these changed that. It was a very nice design that I would love to listen to more. It is a shame that the driver is no longer in production.

Chad's OB - It was a shame it couldn't handle the bass in that room. We had to skip Bella Fleck, because it was bottoming. But again, the open baffle sounded great with Mozart, and got me scratching my head... I loved his selection in music, but was embarrassed to learn it was from Harry Potter.

Mini-Statements - I move up to row 3 to hear these in all their glory. I think Jim is being a bit harsh on himself. They sounded good, though I think the room was robbing them of their true potential and I was a hair disappointed. Some of the notes I wrote down: Could definitely hear the effect of the open back as they seemed to have more depth. Not sure I hear the ribbon tweeter sparkle. A bit boomy, and seems like it the region between the mid and the woofer was a bit recessed (which I think was just the room and the open back). The mids were definitely some of the most detailed and clear. They made grunge in Pink track most obvious. They deserved a second look.

Maynard's Size Matter: The name was sort of toungh in cheek, on the fly choose, but very fitting. I had to get my picture next to them to show my wife that mine weren't that big. A good performer.

My Khanspires: BIAS ALERT!!!!
Stepping up to the Unlimited class. I was first, with just a $40 over $600 for the drivers and crossovers. I was really happy with how they performed. I'm more than a bit biased here, but I thought that the step up from the Mid class to the Unlimited was pretty big. I noted several people just getting into the music. In some ways, I thought they sounded better in that room than my own. The deep open stage allowed them to generate the soundstage depth
that you can't get with them so close to a wall and a TV between them - especially as we turned them up more. The tonal balance was dead on.

It was a real treat to watch the audience respond when mine started playing, especially when Bobby McFerrin came on. I saw lots of heads bobbing along with the music. Then Pete ran up and begged to hear an acapellal track really made me think there were something to these. I thought there was a little disappointment in the room when we had to turn them off and hook the next speakers up. Dennis Murphy turn to me and said that he "had no problems with them", which I took as a real compliment.

I got lots of positive comments about the Khans. Several people remarked about how balanced and neutral they were. I got one comment that they hit the sweet spot in terms of performance verses dollars. I have to agree, I think we're getting everything there is to be had out of the RS drivers, and the the only way to improve would to be spending big dollars on better drivers. I got one comment about reconfirming their beliefs in sealed bass.

Todd's Statements: Sounded great. Man were they HUGE! I didn't think Jim's were that tall, so maybe Todd built them bigger? I would love to get them in my house for a real show down with the Khans. Though, just like the Mini's (though not as prominent), I thought the bass was just a hair boomy and the mids sounded a bit hollow and recessed between the woofer and the mids. In my biased mind, I thought the Khans performed better. But I'm a realistist enough to know that in a normal room it could go a very differnt direction. I guess I'm very glad that it wasn't a more normal room causing me regrets.

After the Statements, I have to admit that my attention started to drop off. It was just getting long in the day. And, after these started to get to be what I'm calling the Super Unlimited. These were Dave Ellis designs and a few others. Just a general comment, they all had better drivers. I think the level of detail and smoothness picked up. But, the were also smaller designs with few drivers. Again, I'm biased and wasn't paying as much attention, but they started to go back to the "monkey coffin" sound. I just didn't hear the big, room filling dynamic sound thought I thought I heard in mine and the Statements. The big room was probably hurting them a bit.

Parson MTM: I did pay enough attention to these. They sounded very impressive. Detailed and very smooth, but at ~$950 for just the drivers, wow! These were some I would want to get into my room and really dig into.

Finally,
John's Alein Look-a-Like: WOW! These blew me away. I couldn't believe the sound. I'm hoping it was just because my ears were shot by then. Amazing, and I wasn't in the seat they used the tape measure to set it up to. The bass was strong and tight. The mids were crystal clear. The treble sounded perfect. The sound filled the room and then some very three dimensional. I'm still not sure what it was that made these so amazing. It was just the same TB W4-1337 that everyone else was using. Maybe it was the electrostatic tweeter. Who knows... Impressive.

I think that is enough for now....

Great time. Looking forward to it again.

[Rick Craig]

31 pairs of speakers? I bet you guys are tired of listening! BTW, what were the demo tracks?

[sprtfan]

I do not post much but thought I should put in my 2 cents since I attended the event. I sat in the third row in the same seat for all the speakers and agree that most of the tweeters seemed a little hot and the bass was a little exaggerated. I said to my friend several times that it was amazing how much bass that little speakers has. Then I realized that most of them did and it probably had more to do with the room than the speakers.
I was there from start to finish and was getting pretty fatigued before lunch and again by the end of the afternoon. I thought Dan N.'s HOSS omni design and the Statements were great. I helped a friend build the Statements a few months ago so I should mention I might be a little biased. I was also very impressed with the 1801b and 1801c. At first I didn't think they had a chance of being as good as some of the other unlimited speakers and was very surprised how much I enjoyed listening to them. If room exaggerated the bass of the speakers, this might have helped the 1801b/c though. Still, if I had limited space or major WAF issues, I would strongly consider them. For some reason, my mind really started to wonder when the Catalinas where being played and I regret that.
I had a great time and even won a prize The experience was wonderful and opened my eyes to different designs and ideas. The super budget class has me thinking I should really upgrade my computer speakers. I look forward to attending again in the future and I might even bring speakers with me next time.

[Daveis]

Good time

I was glad I could bring a friend along to the show. He's not into speaker building, but I wanted him to see the devotion that those that are into the hobby share.

I liked the pyramid shaped Revelator speaker, one of the Seas 2-ways, the round top 8" Revelator speaker, and Jakes Seas.

I loved the chance to hear someone else's use of the RS52 in a 3-way. It appears that Usher makes a 2" soft dome and I may try that instead.

The open baffle speakers were interesting. While they weren't in my favorite 4-5 speakers and they showed promise. In a small room, where the volume levels were lower, they may have done better. I fear they were bottoming their woofers out at times.

Love the Vifa XT tweeter.

And Jake's Seas sounded quite good. I don't usually believe much in "breakin", but maybe they did break in. I love the solid wood front. It's a nice look.
I will have to hear them with a powered sub sometime.

Too bad there's no class for actively crossed over and amplified! I might get to bring something some year.

The bar is getting higher and higher each year. I like going into the high-end audio stores and listening to the test CD after these shows. It really makes you wonder why people spend $3K and up on speakers when you can build your own.

Nice to see a few exotics, open baffles... now if we could only get a bunch of horn guys to show up.

Excellent location. We could have had maybe double the crowd there and still been fine. It would be nice to show up there next year.

[Dennis Murphy]

HI Just wanted to chime in with a couple of comments. First, I really don't think the room was exaggerating bass response. Quite the opposite. I'm very familair with the cuts that were being used (particularly the Cosmic Hippos, which has rattled more than a few woofers in my house), and if anything I thought the large space was swallowing up bass below 40 Hz. And the 1801 sounded pretty much like I think it should, or at least does in all the rooms I've tried it. Finally, just to be a contrarian, I didn't share some of your enthusiasm for the design that used the dome mid. I thought the lower highs were smeared. But I did think the TL bass alignment was spot on. Wish I could have heard the mini statements in a different environment. I'm puzzled by the bass issue. Bass response below 100 hz is omnidirectional, so I'm not sure why the stage floor whould have acted any more like a sounding board for the mini's than they did for the other speakers. Anyhow, the bottom line for me was--I gotta try one of those omnidirectional midrange doo dads. I loved the Hoss. And also the open-back mid thing. Loved the Statements.