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Originally posted by Dougie085They didn't happen to have those new Klipsch speakers there did they? I'm not sure what kind of vendors are at RMAF. Just curious if they live up to their 15k dollar price.- Bottom
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Great show this year. Didn't see the new Klipsch though. I thought the most impressive speakers were the feastrex in a horn loaded enclosure. Sounds great for a single driver. Costs an arm and a leg....~24k per pair for the drivers alone. Got to be the most expensive drivers ever. And it wasn't even their most expensive. I also listened to the MBL speakers. I thought they sounded crappy last year, so I listened again. Still sounds crappy. Got a look at the new sb acoustic drivers from the Madisound display. Promising, and good prices. Can't waite until someone tests them.- Bottom
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Thanks for the pics, Jed- looks like you covered more rooms than I had a chance to, only could spend a couple of hours there on Saturday.
Here's one more for this thread....
We had some of the guys from the old Home Theater Talk forum, including some fellow DIYers, over this afternoon- they listened to Tom's triamped Acoustats, then the new pair of Modula NeoD's just built for Tom, setup for two channel on Thomas's family room system. They brought out some of their favorite CD's and we all had a pretty nice time.the AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....- Bottom
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Originally posted by JonMarshWe had some of the guys from the old Home Theater Talk forum, including some fellow DIYers, over this afternoon- they listened to Tom's triamped Acoustats, then the new pair of Modula NeoD's just built for Tom, setup for two channel on Thomas's family room system. They brought out some of their favorite CD's and we all had a pretty nice time.- Bottom
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Here's a question I've had while looking at pictures of speakers.
I've noticed quite a few designs that look like the front baffles are bolted to the front of the speaker. If these are really bolted on, what's being used to seal the baffle to the rest of the box?
I'm only a semi-speaker building hobbyist, but I think I'd like to make it to some type of event like this one day.- Bottom
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Hi Jed, Really nice picts. Did you listen to the Thiel speakers? How they sound? I know show conditions can be pitiful though.John unk:
"Why can't we all just, get along?" ~ Jack Nicholson (Mars Attacks)
My Website (hyperacusis, tinnitus, my story)- Bottom
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Originally posted by JohnloudbHi Jed, Really nice picts. Did you listen to the Thiel speakers? How they sound? I know show conditions can be pitiful though.- Bottom
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I was a bit surprised at how mediocre some of the demo's were. In several cases, what could have been a pretty good demo, like at Joseph audio, which was using Manley tube electronics, the flaw was what appeared to be a misaligned cartridge setup with considerable high frequency distortion.
The Coltrane Supremes had one of the worst value propositions at the show, in terms of perceived sound quality versus system cost. Most unfortunate.
~Jonthe AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....- Bottom
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The Benchmark Dac solved a lot of those issues. I want one.
"The Coltrane Supremes had one of the worst value propositions at the show, in terms of perceived sound quality versus system cost. Most unfortunate."
You're being too kind Jon- I found it unbearable. My sister and I just looked at eachother and asked, those tweeters cost how much? Again, I think it was the turntable misalignment, though.- Bottom
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Originally posted by JedThe Benchmark Dac solved a lot of those issues. I want one.
"The Coltrane Supremes had one of the worst value propositions at the show, in terms of perceived sound quality versus system cost. Most unfortunate."
You're being too kind Jon- I found it unbearable. My sister and I just looked at eachother and asked, those tweeters cost how much? Again, I think it was the turntable misalignment, though.
TAS Review
Might audition if possible.Last edited by Johnloudb; 16 October 2007, 00:35 Tuesday.John unk:
"Why can't we all just, get along?" ~ Jack Nicholson (Mars Attacks)
My Website (hyperacusis, tinnitus, my story)- Bottom
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Originally posted by JedAgain, I think it was the turntable misalignment, though.
IB subwoofer FAQ page
"Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson- Bottom
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Originally posted by JedThe Benchmark Dac solved a lot of those issues. I want one.
"The Coltrane Supremes had one of the worst value propositions at the show, in terms of perceived sound quality versus system cost. Most unfortunate."
You're being too kind Jon- I found it unbearable. My sister and I just looked at eachother and asked, those tweeters cost how much? Again, I think it was the turntable misalignment, though.
There was a lot of stuff at the show I found hard to believe, because I couldn't imagine someone taking something that sounded that colored somewhere to demo...
Just my inner curmudgeon coming out, I guess.... :W
~Jonthe AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....- Bottom
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Originally posted by JoshKWonder if anyone on this board heard the Emerald Physics dipole. There is a lot of buzz about it on another forum.- Bottom
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Sounds like this wasn't a very good event to attend this year. Or maybe its always like this? Personally I would make sure everythings perfect when I go out to demo a set of my speakers. Especially with how much most of these cost? Kind of strange.- Bottom
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This years show was the biggest and best show so far. There was an amazing number of products, many from companies completely new to me...
Issues with any show like this (including CES, HE or whatever) are the rooms are usually too small, too hot (imagine equipment running from 10:00AM until 6:00PM with the AC off because it makes to much noise) and the room acoustics are a nightmare to deal with. (On the plus side I saw room treatments in many many more rooms this year than in previous years.) All these things combine to make critical listening all but impossible. This is a given most people understand.
The other issue is that Jon and I are jaded, we've been going to shows like this since the late 1970's. And although the equipment changes the basic elements of these shows don't. The n00bs I talked to were really excited about the show and seeing all the equipment. For us it's a good time if we see and talk to old friends and get turned on to some great new music, all that happened.
IB subwoofer FAQ page
"Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson- Bottom
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They have one of the C90 style Neo units (C173N-T6-90)(like I'm using in my Isiris), and underneath it a big stack of the more conventional 6.5/7, (presumably used in the lower midrange/upper bass?)with out the damping plugs- could be C95-T6 aka C173-T6-95, like we're using for Tom's Isiris Jr., or could be the lower efficiency C92-6. Can't readily tell from eye balling them.the AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....- Bottom
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I'm not sure but I think they use the neo equipped midbass C²173N-T6-96 which is the midwoofer with standard cone but with the new chassis and neo motor. It could be that they use the standard C95T. The difference between old C95T and C173N-T6-96 can bee seen here; http://www.clofis.nl/nl/thiel/C173N-T6-96.pdf
The UH-neo motor seems to result in lower distortion and higher sensitivity in the upper range making the C173N-T6 bee an interesting alternative for a two way. Used as in Coltrane Supreme, between aprox. 70Hz and 200-300Hz(?) the old C95T may be as good though.
The C92 was/is used in the first models, Miles and Mingus, from Marten.
/Peter- Bottom
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I didn't see any odd behavior below 1 kHz with the C95 I measured for ThomasW's system. OTOH, I do see the breakup peak occurring at about 3.7 kHz, not at 5.3 kHz as the PDF shows- this behavior seems to be dependent on the finished cone thickness, which does vary apparently in driver runs. This shows up in parts like the C79's I've measured also.the AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....- Bottom
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Originally posted by Dougie085So they have some consistancy issues?
But not in a frequency range you should be running them in....
The original C90 should be crossed no higher than 3 kHz, IMO, the C95 ~ 2 kHz IMO. Significant HD amplification sets in above that.
~Jonthe AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....- Bottom
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The upper limit and peak is not consistent pair to pair- the published PDF is different from the pair I have- by about 2-3 kHz.the AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....- Bottom
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Yeah, the C89. Less rear masking, higher Xmax, easier mounting.
Got both, so I'm entitled to an opinion. :W :Bthe AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....- Bottom
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Originally posted by JonMarshThe upper limit and peak is not consistent pair to pair- the published PDF is different from the pair I have- by about 2-3 kHz.
My pair (C79s) were pretty close to the published specs, so I guess it's a bit of a pain that they very so much. Pretty much requires one to have measuring equipment to verify the results when implementing a DIY design/crossover.- Bottom
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Yup, the breakup always need a matched notch for every driver.
In the good ol' C92 I have measured break up from 5400Hz up to 6200Hz. I've had six units or so.
Even the shape of the peak may vary in shape from "peaky" to "flat", one peak or two very closed peaks (C95T-11). The in band match of the driver pairs/quads are very impressive though and that is what really counts IMO.
/Peter- Bottom
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Originally posted by JedJon,
My pair (C79s) were pretty close to the published specs, so I guess it's a bit of a pain that they very so much. Pretty much requires one to have measuring equipment to verify the results when implementing a DIY design/crossover.
Definitely does. Just one of the costs of doing business with these, I guess...
It's probably hard to get those diaphragms exactly to spec.
I'd be surprised if Avalon didn't... they do a thorough QA on each speaker during production; it's what we call an FSV- "Factory Select Value".
~Jonthe AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....- Bottom
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Well I'd really like to do a speaker looking like an Avalon design. Right now my idea is AirCir 6600, C79 (or C89), and dual NS10's. But right now I'm just kind of brainstorming. This is going to be a long project for me probably at least a year long. It will be actively crossed as well.- Bottom
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Originally posted by ColoradoTomDamn.... wish I could have made it. As it turns out with all the rain we got over the weekend I delevoped a leak in my garage right over my workshop :M and ended spending the night trying to keep my tools/projoects from getting ruined. Looks like I'll have to sneak over to Tom's some other time. Sorry I missed the fun.
Well..... I've been trying to get someone to help me repair the problems with my roof and I decided that I might have to do it myself. In researching roofing materials I came across this Grace product that is an "Ice & Water Shield" made from rubberized asphalt adhesive backed by a layer of high density cross laminated polyethylene..
Has anybody wondered if this would be good to line the inside of speaker cabinets to lessen panel vibrations?? It looks like you could line several cabinets for less than a $100.00 US
If I purchase some I'll stick some on some MDF and see what happens!!!
Tom- Bottom
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Originally posted by Dougie085Well I'd really like to do a speaker looking like an Avalon design. Right now my idea is AirCir 6600, C79 (or C89), and dual NS10's. But right now I'm just kind of brainstorming. This is going to be a long project for me probably at least a year long. It will be actively crossed as well.
well, possibly the M12ta will give you some ideas, I've started prepping panels to cut, and the CAD drawings are close to finished. Expect to see a bit more about them in early December, hopefully.
~Jonthe AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....- Bottom
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Originally posted by ColoradoTomWell..... I've been trying to get someone to help me repair the problems with my roof and I decided that I might have to do it myself. In researching roofing materials I came across this Grace product that is an "Ice & Water Shield" made from rubberized asphalt adhesive backed by a layer of high density cross laminated polyethylene..
Has anybody wondered if this would be good to line the inside of speaker cabinets to lessen panel vibrations?? It looks like you could line several cabinets for less than a $100.00 US
If I purchase some I'll stick some on some MDF and see what happens!!!
Tom
As far as using it to damp speaker cabinet walls, any cabinets we build don't need that kind of damping since they're so thick to begin with.
IB subwoofer FAQ page
"Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson- Bottom
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Originally posted by TacoDJed, I really like the Vivid loudspeakers from Laurence Dicky. What is your opinion about these?
One of the best box speakers for sure, Taco. Do you have any more info on them? Very low coloration, but they had a better setup than a lot of folks... bigger room etc.
Here's what I found online:
- Bottom
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Originally posted by niget2002Here's a question I've had while looking at pictures of speakers.
I've noticed quite a few designs that look like the front baffles are bolted to the front of the speaker. If these are really bolted on, what's being used to seal the baffle to the rest of the box?
I'm only a semi-speaker building hobbyist, but I think I'd like to make it to some type of event like this one day.- Bottom
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Originally posted by JedOne of the best box speakers for sure, Taco. Do you have any more info on them? Very low coloration, but they had a better setup than a lot of folks... bigger room etc.
Here's what I found online:
http://www.vividaudio.com/product_K1.php
Interview with Laurence
Jed, are you also going to start open baffle loudspeakers I think those have their own problems and are not "better" than box loudspeakers, only different.- Bottom
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