My first speakers!-Completed, Listening impressions and pics pg2!

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  • Nathan P
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2006
    • 226

    My first speakers!-Completed, Listening impressions and pics pg2!

    Well, with Kevin's (KJP) help I'm building/designing my first speakers. These are the DA175's I was given like last year by a member on here (Sorry I forget who it was ops: but thanks!) and Kevin has graciously provided some Dayton DC28 silkies for the tweets. The tweets are modded as here:
    http://www.partsexpress.com/projects...kdome/mod.html. The brace is the only thing that came out a little rough, but it's inside so it doesn't matter :twisted: This is two days of work 8O Thanks to my friend Mr. Beitz I finished the basic cabinets in one day. He's an awesome older guy I know, I called to see if he could help me out with some cuts (I don't have a table saw) and when we finished he said, "You wanna just finish these things?" And we did Let me tell you, for quick construction there's nothing like a brad nailer. Glue, nail, move on :T Anyway, we're looking at .8 cu ft. Tuned to 32ish hz. These are partly just my first venture into speaker design so I wanted to do a ported design rather than just having WinISD and Unibox tell me X volume is .707 and build it to that. I wanted something a bit more hands on so I played with ported alignments until I got what I thought was the best compromise between extended response, box size, port size, power handling etc. The woofers can only play full range up to 15W which should be around 95 db. I figure for near field (Using them as my dorm/computer speakers) in the brick dorms I'm in they'll be great! Plus I plan to add a subwoofer. THis might have caused some to just make them sealed, but I can push them much harder if I pass to a sub around 60 hz or so and they are still flatter below around 80hz I think so it's good! :T Well, it's been great fun so far! Here's the pics. Bondo is a beginner cabinet builder's friend, especially a beginner cabinet builder who drops his box on it's corner while moving it across the garage...


    Image not available
    Last edited by theSven; 20 June 2023, 21:56 Tuesday. Reason: Remove broken image links
  • ahaik
    Senior Member
    • Feb 2007
    • 233

    #2
    Interesting, never thought of using auto body filler, I always used wood putty.
    Does it work well ? How fast does it dry ? looks like its easier to apply too.

    Comment

    • Rolex
      Senior Member
      • Mar 2005
      • 386

      #3
      Wow.

      That is an insane amount of bondo.... You could be in for hours of sanding.

      I used bondo on all three of my builds. It's a much harder material than most other putty. Plus, it hardens quickly. And it's real easy to apply.

      Comment

      • KJP
        Member
        • Nov 2004
        • 94

        #4
        BONDO! 8O :rofl:

        Nice progress Nathan. :T

        Comment

        • BobEllis
          Super Senior Member
          • Dec 2005
          • 1609

          #5
          Body filler works great, but give it a week or so to cure fully before final sanding and painting. You can sand the same day but I leave it a little proud of the surface because it usually shrinks a bit as it fully cures.

          A surform plane is handy for bondo work - knock down the bigger bumps before it cures saves a lot of sanding.

          Comment

          • ---k---
            Ultra Senior Member
            • Nov 2005
            • 5204

            #6
            Thomas recommended Bondo to me on my first sub build. Works great and nice fumes to boot.
            - Ryan

            CJD Ochocinco! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
            CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
            CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center

            Comment

            • JonMarsh
              Mad Max Moderator
              • Aug 2000
              • 15298

              #7
              Bondo is the best if you have to do filling or repairs due to parts not quite matching the original size target. Wood filler is about an order of magnitude less useful, IMO. But that is a lot you've got on there- will take some time sanding.
              the AudioWorx
              Natalie P
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              In Development...
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              Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
              Just ask Mr. Ohm....

              Comment

              • Nathan P
                Senior Member
                • Mar 2006
                • 226

                #8
                Yeah I think my cat got high being in the garage after I finished :B And yes, I have a sureform that will do nicely.

                EDIT-It actually looks worse than it is because of the blob on the corner right there, the rest of it is pretty thin in comparison. The shadows from the flash make it look thicker. But there is a lot on there, I probably used 3/4 or so of that pint between the two :rofl: BUt once sanded no one will ever know parts didn't fit quite right cause I miscalculated on one piece! (Had to shim the rear panel, when making my measurements I had the rear fitting into the box in two different ways at the same time obviously I made all the other parts to fit one way and the rear to the otherway and it took me a minute to figure out what I'd done.

                Comment

                • ahaik
                  Senior Member
                  • Feb 2007
                  • 233

                  #9
                  Originally posted by JonMarsh
                  Bondo is the best if you have to do filling or repairs due to parts not quite matching the original size target. Wood filler is about an order of magnitude less useful, IMO. But that is a lot you've got on there- will take some time sanding.
                  I will have use for that very soon :B . I assume It can be purchased at the local car parts store.
                  Thanks guys.

                  Comment

                  • Nathan P
                    Senior Member
                    • Mar 2006
                    • 226

                    #10
                    I got mine at walmart

                    Comment

                    • ThomasW
                      Moderator Emeritus
                      • Aug 2000
                      • 10933

                      #11
                      For those infected with OCD wanting the smoothest surface possible use "Icing" after Bondo.....


                      IB subwoofer FAQ page


                      "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                      Comment

                      • Nathan P
                        Senior Member
                        • Mar 2006
                        • 226

                        #12
                        nah, I'm putting a textured paint on them anyhow so why go to that extreme

                        Comment

                        • ---k---
                          Ultra Senior Member
                          • Nov 2005
                          • 5204

                          #13
                          Thomas,
                          thanks for that link. I saw something similar in a magazine recently, and was wondering about it.

                          Though, I found that a scrapper to a couple of layers of paint was amazingly effective at smoothing the paint, much more so than sanding. A few light passes and it was like glass. I just didn't follow through on the whole box yet.


                          Oh, and I got my bondo at Lowes.
                          - Ryan

                          CJD Ochocinco! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
                          CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
                          CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center

                          Comment

                          • seeker
                            Junior Member
                            • Mar 2007
                            • 20

                            #14
                            Bondo is pretty well known among woodworkers and is a great hole filler. Just remember that if you will be using wood veneer, and employing the hot iron method for its apllication, you may develop some adhesion issues on larger areas, which is no fun.

                            Just be sure to test on scrap first. Good luck!
                            Steve

                            Comment

                            • Exocer
                              Senior Member
                              • Feb 2006
                              • 262

                              #15
                              Nathan, I liked the bracing design.I would never have the patience to do such a thing myself...I need to invest in a better router with dust collection.

                              Oh and it was PMazz who sent us the DA175's...in fact I still have a pair laying around... Nice to see that you're putting them to use.

                              Comment

                              • JonP
                                Senior Member
                                • Apr 2006
                                • 692

                                #16
                                Might be stating the obvious, but after you get the big stuff removed, making yourself a nice, long sanding block by gluing (doubleside carpet tape is great) a strip of sandpaper on a piece of flat MDF or similar. Makes it easy to not round corners, dig scallops, etc, doing it by hand. You'll have smooth and square sides in no time.

                                Something that might help with the iron on glue and the bondo, experiment with a layer of dewaxed Shellac sealer. (Zinssner's Seal Coat) Shellac will go on nearly everything, and nearly everything will stick to it (dewaxed) pretty well.. so it might help that yellow glue to hang on better. Haven't tried exactly that, but it should be an improvement. Nice side benefit of the seal coat.. the bare MDF will drink it up, then the paint, glue or whatever you add over it won't dissappear into it and need extra coats.

                                I'd think you'd want to fill the roughness of the Bondo up, so the glue won't fall into the texture, so a few coats would be in order. Rough the shellac up slightly for the glue to have a bit of texture to attach to. Only problem I've had with glue on a shellacked surface was with a very heavy and glossy one, the glue wanted to bead up a bit, but a touch of sanding and it flowed on smoothly.


                                Do a few test scraps....

                                <edited for afterthoughts, corrections>
                                Last edited by JonP; 17 August 2007, 17:16 Friday.

                                Comment

                                • Nathan P
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Mar 2006
                                  • 226

                                  #17
                                  Yes, a sanding board is a must, used one when I did another project and it saved my life!

                                  Comment

                                  • ThomasW
                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                    • Aug 2000
                                    • 10933

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Nathan P
                                    nah, I'm putting a textured paint on them anyhow so why go to that extreme
                                    I was temporarily hijacking your thread to post a link since the discussion turned to Bondo...

                                    IB subwoofer FAQ page


                                    "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                                    Comment

                                    • Nathan P
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Mar 2006
                                      • 226

                                      #19
                                      Get outta' here you hijacking curmudgeon! :B Thanks for all the kind words. Kevin, they aren't going to be done today, I had a hell of a time finding a flush trim bit for some stuff I have to do on the baffle and it took up my whole morning... Dang router bits are too expensive... $16... :evil:

                                      Comment

                                      • sprint_9
                                        Member
                                        • Jul 2007
                                        • 99

                                        #20
                                        I feel for that screwdriver in the pic, poor little guy, like too many of my own overcome with bondo.

                                        Comment

                                        • Jim Holtz
                                          Ultra Senior Member
                                          • Mar 2005
                                          • 3223

                                          #21
                                          Here's the solution to leveling bondo in a hurry.



                                          Jim

                                          Comment

                                          • Nathan P
                                            Senior Member
                                            • Mar 2006
                                            • 226

                                            #22
                                            Yes, that and disc sanders do wonders for the heavy stuff. I think I'm gonna setup a fence and use the router to cut that corner back, that's just way way too much to do by hand lol. Progress now is that the front baffles are on, I still have to cut out the driver holes in the outer baffle (Decided that I wanted to do a double thick baffle and just turned the old one into an inside baffle by placing it inside out and making the driver flange parts into a back chamfer.) Anyway it's coming along. I have the first port rounded over on the outside too.

                                            Comment

                                            • dvoatis
                                              Junior Member
                                              • Oct 2005
                                              • 2

                                              #23
                                              As someone who is a better body man (body person?) than carpenter. . .Bondo is great stuff.

                                              To remove large amounts in a hurry, the right tool is a "cheese grater" - http://www.azautobodysupply.com/chgrharoforb.html

                                              It's called a "cheese grater" because it looks like one and functions like one. It removes bondo in 'shreds' not dust. (A dirty little body shop secret- we used to collect the bondo shavings after 'grating' and mix it in with fresh bondo for fills).

                                              The goals, of course, when using bondo or any filler is to do the original work so that very little bondo is required. However, for something like a speaker box that is not going to be subject to stress and strain and heat and weather extremes to the degree a auto body panel would be, I see no problem with working thick.

                                              As far as time to cure. . .This can be adjusted (to some degree) by varying the amount of catalyst used. In the body shop we can go from bondo application to final paint in the same day without problems.

                                              Bondo and MDF- a match made in heaven!

                                              Comment

                                              • Nathan P
                                                Senior Member
                                                • Mar 2006
                                                • 226

                                                #24
                                                That cheese grater looks like a commercial sureform. ANd it went on thick cause I was having trouble with it pulling out of the holes from the nails a bit when I put it too thin. And it dries fast so I just wanted it ON THERE. The sureform takes down the bumps fast and 60 grit on a board cuts it down flat in no time. What's in the pics is about 45 min of sanding. Today was pretty much wasted finding a good flush trim bit to do the outer baffle piece with and then doing my lawn job, and helping my mom clean the house cause we have friends coming over tomorrow. (Not that we don't normally clean the house :B ) Tomorrow night and Sunday should see both of them rough sanded and the roundovers done on the vertical corners. I'm doing roundovers on the front sides and back, and leaving the bottom and top flat. I checked the top with my board and it's got a tiny bit of curve in it, but I'm not too worried about it. I'll keep sanding and just sand down the middle a bit more cause I don't want to slather on more bondo now that I have it looking this good.

                                                Oh, I also put the preliminary rough roundover on the port. I'm going to hand shape it a bit more.


                                                Images not available


                                                This was one of the brads that didn't go in quite straight. It's flush and isn't going anywhere so I'm just going to paint over it lol

                                                Image not available
                                                Last edited by theSven; 20 June 2023, 21:56 Tuesday. Reason: Remove broken image links

                                                Comment

                                                • Hdale85
                                                  Moderator Emeritus
                                                  • Jan 2006
                                                  • 16073

                                                  #25
                                                  I bet that brad stands out in the finish

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Nathan P
                                                    Senior Member
                                                    • Mar 2006
                                                    • 226

                                                    #26
                                                    hmmm, it might, it's really flush and the bondo is all around it but I'll dig it out and cover up the divot just to be sure.

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Hdale85
                                                      Moderator Emeritus
                                                      • Jan 2006
                                                      • 16073

                                                      #27
                                                      Good idea! Personally I would hate to do all that work and see that every time I look at my speakers. Besides brads just hold the wood in place till the glue dries so its not really needed.

                                                      Comment

                                                      • kingpin
                                                        Senior Member
                                                        • Jun 2006
                                                        • 958

                                                        #28
                                                        If the brad was on the bottom you could use it as speaker feet.(LoL)

                                                        Mike
                                                        Call me "MIKE"
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                                                        Comment

                                                        • Nathan P
                                                          Senior Member
                                                          • Mar 2006
                                                          • 226

                                                          #29
                                                          All rough sanding and roundovers are done! Tomorrow I sand with 100 and 220 and then paint (Don't have to go too high, the paint is textured) I also cut out the tweeter holes, they came out absolutely perfect. What you see here is probably around 9-10 hours of sanding total. Dustmasks are the best thing since DIY jasper jigs! And if you have soft hands, wear gloves when working with 60 grit, I've been working out in an orchard doing hard manual labor all summer so I have pretty tough hands, and my thumbs are STILL sore. Of course, that may have something to do with the fact that my long board consists of sandpaper stapled around a piece of really flat hardwood, but that's beside the point . Here are the pics! I oversanded the top on one side of one of the boxes, so I had to add a 1/16 or so layer of bondo and feather it in, it turned out just fine.


                                                          Images not available
                                                          Last edited by theSven; 20 June 2023, 21:57 Tuesday. Reason: Remove broken image links

                                                          Comment

                                                          • Nathan P
                                                            Senior Member
                                                            • Mar 2006
                                                            • 226

                                                            #30
                                                            Yes, I do know that the top of the boxes look a little slanted, before I paint/final sand the things I'm gonna do some trueing up of the top/bottom panels.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Nathan P
                                                              Senior Member
                                                              • Mar 2006
                                                              • 226

                                                              #31
                                                              hmmm, I just reexamined my boxes, and they aren't bad at all... just a tiny bit of slantedness on the top, but nothing to worry about? Probably just the camera angle or something?

                                                              Comment

                                                              • Hdale85
                                                                Moderator Emeritus
                                                                • Jan 2006
                                                                • 16073

                                                                #32
                                                                Are the bottoms off your cabinets? Was just wondering how your going to get crossovers and drivers in there.

                                                                Comment

                                                                • Nathan P
                                                                  Senior Member
                                                                  • Mar 2006
                                                                  • 226

                                                                  #33
                                                                  I haven't cut the holes for the mids yet, once cut the xovers are going in the space down below the driver in front of the brace, I'll put them in through the driver holes.

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • Landroval
                                                                    Senior Member
                                                                    • Dec 2005
                                                                    • 175

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Originally posted by Dougie085
                                                                    Are the bottoms off your cabinets? Was just wondering how your going to get crossovers and drivers in there.
                                                                    A hole for the woofer might be on the way...

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Nathan P
                                                                      Senior Member
                                                                      • Mar 2006
                                                                      • 226

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by Landroval
                                                                      A hole for the woofer might be on the way...
                                                                      :T :B

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • Nathan P
                                                                        Senior Member
                                                                        • Mar 2006
                                                                        • 226

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Alright, we're ready to paint! The woofer cutouts were no big. I spent some time making sure they were as square as they could be and sat flat this morning, everything is looking great.


                                                                        Images not available


                                                                        Yay for making sawdust! :twisted:

                                                                        Image not available
                                                                        Last edited by theSven; 20 June 2023, 21:57 Tuesday. Reason: Remove broken image links

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • Nathan P
                                                                          Senior Member
                                                                          • Mar 2006
                                                                          • 226

                                                                          #37
                                                                          Alrighty! These things are finally done and I couldn't be happier with the results. The painting didn't go quite as well as I had hoped, but from 5 ft they look great haha Thanks goes to Kevin (KJP) for the crossovers, I couldn't have done any of this without him. So thanks buddy! The final design has a slight classic BBC dip in the crossover region (crossover is around 2000hz) Here are the graphs and pics!


                                                                          Images not available
                                                                          Last edited by theSven; 20 June 2023, 21:58 Tuesday. Reason: Remove broken image links

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • Nathan P
                                                                            Senior Member
                                                                            • Mar 2006
                                                                            • 226

                                                                            #38
                                                                            Oh, disregard any frequency response info below 200hz, it's only accurate down to 200 due to the measurement program, methods or something. Kevin just said that so

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • yousuredo2
                                                                              Senior Member
                                                                              • Jun 2006
                                                                              • 206

                                                                              #39
                                                                              congrats looks great ! :T
                                                                              If you decide you don't want/cain't live with the finish, you can redo it later...

                                                                              Now that you are hooked, whats your next project...?
                                                                              My System
                                                                              ~ BenQ w5000 DLP 1080p Projector
                                                                              ~ Sony Bravia SXRD KDS-60A3000
                                                                              ~ Onkyo tx sr805
                                                                              ~ Sony PS.3
                                                                              ~ Xbox 360
                                                                              ~ Natalie P's Main L/R
                                                                              ~ Polk Csi A6 -Center
                                                                              ~ Polk RTi6 Rears
                                                                              ~ Behringer ep2500
                                                                              ~ Behringer Fbq 2496

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • augerpro
                                                                                Super Senior Member
                                                                                • Aug 2006
                                                                                • 1867

                                                                                #40
                                                                                That finish looks pretty good! What did you use? Congrats on a job well done!
                                                                                ~Brandon 8O
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                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • Nathan P
                                                                                  Senior Member
                                                                                  • Mar 2006
                                                                                  • 226

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  The finish is rustoleum texture paint in flat black. I forget to add the listening impressions :embarrassed: The sound is pretty laid back at low volumes due to the bbc dip, but when you crank it they really sing. Due to placement in my dorm they sound really really bassy, but I can EQ that down a bit. At home they were very even response wise when places about 2-3ft into the room. When placed properly at home the things that impressed me most was the imaging, I could really pick out where all the instruments were in the recording. But, these are the first DIY speakers and only the second set of speakers I've heard with proper stereo placement for the most part so I'm not very experienced in that regard! Overall I'm very very happy.

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • KJP
                                                                                    Member
                                                                                    • Nov 2004
                                                                                    • 94

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Looks great Nathan. Sweet first build. :T

                                                                                    Glad to hear your happy with the results. Took what, two years to complete??? :rofl: Seems about the pace of my projects..... :roll:

                                                                                    FWIW crossover targets are 4th order LR 1800hz. The drivers started out with a bit of an odd response that ended up taking 3rd order networks to beat them into submission and maintain a desirable transfer function.

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • Nathan P
                                                                                      Senior Member
                                                                                      • Mar 2006
                                                                                      • 226

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Yeah, it looked like they had some strange spots in the raw driver response.

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • Nathan P
                                                                                        Senior Member
                                                                                        • Mar 2006
                                                                                        • 226

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        Just wanted to bump this with updated listening impressions after a year and recently getting a better setup to support the speakers. I'm now running with a small PSB subwoofer and a real receiver instead of the old amplifier setup I had to use due to monetary constraints when I first set them up in my dorm.

                                                                                        Getting this new receiver has been like taking a veil off the sound. These things have such a dynamic, detailed sound I love it. Couldn't be more happy with the results. They are relatively power hungry with an ~85 (IIRC) db/w sensitivity but for my purposes they get plenty loud with a 120W receiver behind them. I'm currently running with no eq crossed at ~100 hz (The built in crossover in the receiver can't be changed ) and I'm having a hard time finding something about the sound to tweak eq wise. Maybe I just don't have a good enough ear but they sound really really good cranked with songs like Hotel California. Vocals especially pop out.

                                                                                        If I can think of one bad thing about them, it's that certain instruments don't have a whole lot of presence compared to the vocals.

                                                                                        Nathan

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