New center speaker or main speakers?

[wackii]

I'm itching to build some speakers again. This will probably for next year project. Here are what I have so far.

A Sonosub Avalanche 15 LLT tuned to ~15hz (powered by QSC RMX 850)
A pair of DIY GR a/v-3 main speaker
A Pair of Paradigm as surrounds
Pioneer 1014 as receiver
Parasound HCA 1500A power amp (200W x 2 @ 8Ohm) to power the mains

I'm in between of getting the center or build the new and more powerful mains. What would you do if you are me? New center (GR a/v-3S) or new main speakers? Dont get me wrong, I really like the mains now. But it seemed like a little small for my sub or maybe I'm just want to build more speakers I have the max budget for mains for $1000. Do you think I can get a much better main speakers for that amount of money? Is there an advantage of having the center speaker? As of now, I'm running the 4.1 instead of 5.1. Am I missing something? I have a few months before I'll get down and dirty. Will probably be after the marathon in March. I'm greatly preciated any inputs. Thanks.

Happy holidays!!!

Al,

[ThomasW]

The NatP or Modula MTM (see Missions Accomplished sections) will have more output, play lower and likely be more detailed compared to the A/V-3's

The Larger WWMT will blow the A/V-3's out of the water. They'll be slightly more than your $1K budget (note if you watch PE's sales you may hit your budget).

Since you have mains, you might consider building the WMTW center first. Then build the mains.

[Jim Holtz]

The NatP or Modula MTM (see Missions Accomplished sections) will have more output, play lower and likely be more detailed compared to the A/V-3's

The Larger WWMT will blow the A/V-3's out of the water. They'll be slightly more than your $1K budget (note if you watch PE's sales you may hit your budget).

Since you have mains, you might consider building the WMTW center first. Then build the mains.

I agree Thomas. Any of the designs would be a step up from the AV3's (no disrespect meant) and the RS 3-ways are in a whole different class.

One correction though. The RS 3-way BOM I put together for the Iowa DIY event came in at $556 for drivers and crossover parts. If he builds his own cabinets that should leave enough money to build the new RS center Jon is designing and maybe have enough money left over for a CD or two.

If need be, I'd be happy to post the latest BOM. I didn't want to clutter up the board with another BOM if it isn't needed however.

Jim

[wackii]

The NatP or Modula MTM (see Missions Accomplished sections) will have more output, play lower and likely be more detailed compared to the A/V-3's

The Larger WWMT will blow the A/V-3's out of the water. They'll be slightly more than your $1K budget (note if you watch PE's sales you may hit your budget).

Since you have mains, you might consider building the WMTW center first. Then build the mains.

Wow. Great info. Thanks. I never thought of a WMTW center first. Is there going to be a issue of matching it with A/V-3?

Al,

[Hdale85]

Well if your planning on replacing the A/V-3's then why does it matter so much? :B

[wackii]

I agree Thomas. Any of the designs would be a step up from the AV3's (no disrespect meant) and the RS 3-ways are in a whole different class.

One correction though. The RS 3-way BOM I put together for the Iowa DIY event came in at $556 for drivers and crossover parts. If he builds his own cabinets that should leave enough money to build the new RS center Jon is designing and maybe have enough money left over for a CD or two.

If need be, I'd be happy to post the latest BOM. I didn't want to clutter up the board with another BOM if it isn't needed however.

Jim

Thanks, Jim. What is the RS 3-way BOM? Please give me some info. Sound interesting.

Al,

[wackii]

Well if your planning on replacing the A/V-3's then why does it matter so much? :B

That's so true

Al,

[Jim Holtz]

Thanks, Jim. What is the RS 3-way BOM? Please give me some info. Sound interesting.

Al,

Hi Al,

The RS 3-way is a 3-way tower design based on the Dayton Reference Series drivers. They are extremely low distortion drivers that are valu priced but compete with very expensive drivers. I've attached a picture of the pair I built.






And to the new center under development.

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php?p=294472&postcount=46

Here's a link to the complete thread in the Missions accomplished section. It is very, very long and outlines both the 3-way mains and matching 3-way center channel.

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15323

Jon also has a new center channel design in the works that should be completed around the 1st of the year that will give similar performance in a smaller cabinet.

These are really exceptionally nice speakers that compare with commercial speakers costing many thousands of dollars. Very nice! :T

HTH

Jim

[wackii]

Thank you Jim for the great info. It looks like I have some reading to do. I'm kinda leaning toward the 3 ways center at the moment. And also interested in Jon's new center channel design due to the fact that I have to put the center speaker on top of my 32" TV (so smaller in size is better). I hope that his XO isn't too complicated. I'm a total newb on soldering and reading the XO network schematic. The GR a/v-3 is pretty easy to build. Everything is basically lay out for me and all I have to do is follow the network picture. I guess I will need you guys help on this. Thanks again.

Happy holidays!!!

Al,

[cjd]

Actually the original 3-way was a center, so you could get parts for perfectly matching fronts for under $1k and have better voice matching than using Jon's upcoming (smaller) design. You don't want to use something like this with a pathetic 32" TV anyhow, so budget for a proper FP and 100" wide screen.

C

[wackii]

Actually the original 3-way was a center, so you could get parts for perfectly matching fronts for under $1k and have better voice matching than using Jon's upcoming (smaller) design. You don't want to use something like this with a pathetic 32" TV anyhow, so budget for a proper FP and 100" wide screen.

C

Thanks for the info. I'm actually shopping for some +50 inches hdtv. I don't have room for 100"

Al,

[cjd]

Yes you do... ok, fine, shrink it down to ~80" wide... :P

96" wide is only 8 feet...

[soho54]

Is there an advantage of having the center speaker?

I addressed this in your mirror thread.

I always pick the dead one. :roll:

[Al Garay]

Al,

I feel compelled to offer a different opinion. You don't know what your system is capable until you finish it.

If I was in your shoes, I would focus on finishing the GR-Research package getting A/V-3S for center and rear surrounds. That's about $470 out of your budget and would leave you with perfectly matching 5.1 system. If you wish to splurge, buy the Sonicap upgrade.

Before investing in another speaker system, starting all over, upgrade your electronics. The Pioneer 1014 has nice features but it's not musical, very dry, thin sounding. And will sound that way with GR-Research, RS kits and many others. The 1014 does work fine as a HT preamp, so you could add another Parasound 3-way or 5-way amplifier, many options for amps that will make a significant difference, build a UcD180 5 channel amplifier.

You didn't identify your source DVD player, make sure it's at least as good as an OppoDigital for around $200.

A friend of mine, Darren Thomas, who sometimes posts here, could upgrade to any speaker kit he wants. He has not found speaker kits to motivate him to change from his GR-Research setup. They are very good especially for someone who is primarily interested in HT.

Your GR-Research speakers are not the weak link.

Good luck,

Al

[ThomasW]

The OP indicated the desire for a system with output on par with his sub.

Having a matched system based on 5.25" midwoofers with 3.3mm of Xmax isn't going to accomplish his goal unless he buys them by the dozen.

[wackii]

Al,

I feel compelled to offer a different opinion. You don't know what your system is capable until you finish it.

If I was in your shoes, I would focus on finishing the GR-Research package getting A/V-3S for center and rear surrounds. That's about $470 out of your budget and would leave you with perfectly matching 5.1 system. If you wish to splurge, buy the Sonicap upgrade.

Before investing in another speaker system, starting all over, upgrade your electronics. The Pioneer 1014 has nice features but it's not musical, very dry, thin sounding. And will sound that way with GR-Research, RS kits and many others. The 1014 does work fine as a HT preamp, so you could add another Parasound 3-way or 5-way amplifier, many options for amps that will make a significant difference, build a UcD180 5 channel amplifier.

You didn't identify your source DVD player, make sure it's at least as good as an OppoDigital for around $200.

A friend of mine, Darren Thomas, who sometimes posts here, could upgrade to any speaker kit he wants. He has not found speaker kits to motivate him to change from his GR-Research setup. They are very good especially for someone who is primarily interested in HT.

Your GR-Research speakers are not the weak link.

Good luck,

Al

I was thinking of getting the A/V-3S for the center at first. But after more research and seeing it goes down to mid 80s on the bottom end, it kinda push me away. I like to have the center to go a little lower than that so that I can crossover at 80hz. There's nothing wrong with the GR mains that I have, it's very clean and clear with that parasound amp :T I'm just wanting to build something new I guess If this WTMW center is great, I will complete the whole front stage speakers with the TMWW mains. Later down the road, I will definitely upgrade the receiver as well. My pocket is getting thiner with this hobby. Thanks for the advice Al. Happy holidays!

Al,

Edit: BTW, I have the pioneer 563A dvd player. It's decent enuf since I have no HDTV at the moment.

[cjd]

most receiver based sub crossovers (or rather, "small" setting) assume a natural rolloff on the bottom end of your speakers to get a proper balance with the sub, so the GR A/V-3S probably works perfectly in this application.

C

[wackii]

Yes you do... ok, fine, shrink it down to ~80" wide... :P

96" wide is only 8 feet...

Not going to work. I barely have room for the 56" which I need to move my audio rack further. I don't have a dedicated HT room like some of you guys have :rant:

Al,

[wackii]

Wow... I've just read the sticky thread. I didn't know my thread here cost a conflict. My apology to all.

Happy holidays!

Al,

[ThomasW]

There is no need to apologize to anyone. You have the right to enquire about and receive feedback regarding any speaker that interests you.

People should know all the designs posted in the 'Mission Accomplished" section of the forum, were created prior to Parts Express becoming a sponsor at HT-Guide. It was only after they saw the number of projects developed with their drivers, that PE decided to advertize on HT-Guide.

The sticky thread has been removed from public view but not deleted.

[Hdale85]

I thought it was crazy that he tried to give the dayton drivers such a bad name when they have been tested time and time again and have been proven to be a great performer. And haven't some of the Mission Accomplished designs won awards? I was going to buy a set of GR's a while back but then I found this place and learned a little about speakers. After looking them over again I realized for the money you could do a lot better and I'm not trying to say anything bad about their speakers just realized they weren't what I wanted.

Al you gave them an idea of what you wanted out of your system and all they said was that it would be hard for you to accomplish that with the GR's I don't see where anyone said anything wrong up until Danny sent Thomas that email.

[ThomasW]

The sticky thread was posted as a locked thread to avoid discussion about it. I encourage people to keep this thread on topic, that topic being assisting Al in finding speakers he wants to build.