high end 2 way monitor

[Rolex]

If I wanted to build a high end 2 way speaker, one that would hold up against the likes of Dynaudio Special 25, B&W Signature 805, and speakers like that, where would I start? Meaning, which drivers are a good choice? If I went with a 9900 scan speak tweeter, could I use an accompanying scan speak mid bass driver? Should I look at other lines like Eton?

How about Accuton? Expensive, yes, but would they work well in a 2 way stand mount application?

Crossover design will follow shortly, and I have a pretty strong grasp on the cabinet design. Just need some driver selection help.

All opinions and suggestions appreciated! Thanks!

[cjd]

Well, you know, not to make waves or anything but... what you have should be able to do what you ask. Many of the Dayton RS systems may. I think. I'm not intimately familiar with the Dyns or B&W's you mention, but I have had the opportunity to compare some of the particularly small Dyns against my "budget" oriented MTM's with the Dayton RS's...

That said, the Scan Revelators are superb though exceedingly costly. Definitely have the potential. Same goes for the Accutons, though they are going to be much more picky about crossover implementation. The Accuton tweeters are similarly superb but costly, from what I have gathered. I would dearly love to be able to work with either or both but... well, I have other priorities for funds at this stage in my life. I'm pretty sure Jon has a few of the Accutons in his cabinet-o-drivers slated for some of that mysterious, ethereal, and seemingly nonexistent free time on his part.

C

[Rolex]

The problem I ran into with my last project (Peerless 830883 and Scan Speak 9500) is that they are good, quite good, in fact, but they are missing the last bit of top end, and the crystal clear and refined midrange that I'm used to hearing with commercially available speaker. After speaking with the folks that designed my current crossover, they tend to believe that I have maxed out the capabilities of the drivers.

Which is why I'm thinking if I step up a ways in the driver line, I'll gain that high end sparkle I'm looking for with the crystal clear midrange.

I know the Magico Mini speaker is around 22,000 dollars for the pair. THey use the Scan Speak 7000 tweeter. At 800 bucks a pair, I won't be looking at those, by maybe even the 7100? But, if a manufacturer priced in that bracket is using a tweeter I can buy just down the road, that leaves me with high hopes for a fantastic sounding stand mount speaker.

cjd, thanks for your comments.

My fear with accutons is that they are VERY expensive, and I'm wondering if the mid and tweet will not function well without the help of a woofer from some kind.

[TurboFC3S]

Scan's 18W-8535 has been on my mind awhile as the driver I'd like to try in a high-end 2-way monitor. I was considering trying it with a JM Lab Audiom tweeters, since Zalytron has them on sale. Build a laminated sandwich style enclosure with a time aligned face, spend a year tweaking the crossover, and you could have a B&W 805 beater for 20% the price

[Paul H]

... After speaking with the folks that designed my current crossover, they tend to believe that I have maxed out the capabilities of the drivers.

Which is why I'm thinking if I step up a ways in the driver line, I'll gain that high end sparkle I'm looking for with the crystal clear midrange. ...

I know nothing whatsoever about the designs you previously commissioned, or the folks that designed them, but it strikes me that having the crossover designer tell you that the driver is 'maxed out' just might be biased advice. I'd be curious to see more detail of a previous design, if that's possible.

[cjd]

Yeah, based on the one design by the folks you used I *have* seen/heard, I suspect I would not agree with their statement regarding "maxed out" - perhaps disagree strongly. I found the midrange of that design to be very soft and smooth, but not particularly articulate. I find many commercial designs sound this way also, by the way - but I also find many commercial designs that others say "ooh yes, there's that midrange detail" have a tweeter that makes me cringe. Everyone has a different ear.

I don't remember where you live, but perhaps there are local DIYers you could get together with?

Really putting together a package of sound that meets your own specific goals can be quite a challenge - picking drivers is only a small part of the equation, and looking at really expensive drivers will not at all guarantee you results - if anything it can be a recipe for disaster and more severe disappointment. Even cabinet design, people disagree about a great many things and optimize differently.

C

[JonMarsh]

The revelators are designed for a very specific crossover approach, and have a step up in the response above 800 Hz to make implementing BSC comp easier- but this means some non-ideal things going on with cone behavior that is not pistonic, and increases energy storage. Check out the impedance curves for evidence of this. Those drivers have beautiful motors, but I just don't agree with the cone design choices.

If I were doing an advanced two way design again, and wanted to keep the cost somewhat under control, I'd look closely at the D3004/66000 from ScanSpeak,






and the C220-T6 8" midwoofer from Accuton. The latter has it's main breakup about 3.2 kHz, and looks to be usable to 1500 Hz or so.







Note that this is a measurement on a smallish baffle, and illustrates the normal need for baffle step compensation between 200 Hz and 800 Hz.

I may retrofit my own M8ta's some day with this midwoofer.

As to a possible overall design, the M8ta crossover and response using RS225 midwoofer and Seas Millenium tweeter (the roll off in tweeter is a microphone cable capacitance problem with an older mic):







Here's once constructed by another HT Guide member










Colorado Tom is finishing up a set now, just has some veneering and finishing work to complete (posted in another current thread).


My personal ones use a Hales Transcendence tweeter, a custom Vifa unit, with the Dayton RS225 woofer. I've posted design variations with other tweeters, including the Seas 27TDFC, and the RS28a. Here they are unveneered during development testing. Noe that I have a table saw capable of deeper cuts than most 10" table saws, hence others building these have had to modify the bevel depth on top and bottom.



I'm personally surprised at how many folks have gone with this project, as it was undertaken and posted mostly as an homage to my roots and an old friend (theyr'e my bedroom speakers). I do have a limited description of it in some detail from CAD drawings, and suggested crossover layouts which I can email in a zip file if you're curious. It's not for the faint of heart or weak of back from a woodworking perspective.

[Rolex]

Thanks again for all the responses!

Jon, I am extremely interested in that speaker design and would LOVE any info you could send my way.

I realize that if I stay with one company designing all the crossovers for my speakers they will all sound the same. But, I had a suspicion that using a better driving will *usually* help things.

[Mark K]

I second Jon and Zaph's prior recommendation about the 6600. Unfortunately, it's currently unobtainium.

I just finished testing a 7000. Or, is it a 7100--the non ring radiator version. While it's nonlinear numbers above 2k are very good, it neither goes low, nor is very as flat as it's 6600 brother. It's a beautiful tweeter, but the gem is the 6600. I'll try to post preliminary results on this revelator soon. And, I'm going to send it to Zaph and DLR to peek at. Jon, if you want to play with them you can test one as well. I guess I could send you the 6600, so you'd have to look at it after DLR. Or, right before, around christmas.

The 7000 is probably best used where you need the extra sensitivity. Otherwise, the 6600 tests better.

Oh, but the machined faceplate is a dream...sure looks like a million bucks.

[Rolex]

I should clarify the "maxed out" statement. They didn't use that term. That was me. What they said was it was probably characteristics of the driver that I was hearing.

[JonMarsh]

Thanks again for all the responses!

Jon, I am extremely interested in that speaker design and would LOVE any info you could send my way.

I realize that if I stay with one company designing all the crossovers for my speakers they will all sound the same. But, I had a suspicion that using a better driving will *usually* help things.

I'll need an email address to send you the info. You can click on my profile to get an address for me.

Regards,

Jon

[kingpin]

Would you please tell me what veneer is on those speakers.
They are gorgeous.
They could only be better in my eyes if they were 3-4 feet taller. (joke)

Thanks
Mike

[TacoD]

I second Jon and Zaph's prior recommendation about the 6600. Unfortunately, it's currently unobtainium.

The 6600 design is revisited, they should be available again begin next year. Although the sensitivity is lowered for the new serie. Besides the very nice measurements of the 6600, they also sound very good. I prefere those above the more expensive 7000. Also the 6600 is more friendly to filter, I think you can make a very good 2-way using this tweeter and a 8". You can do a Wilson ripoff , combining the 6600 with a Scanspeak Revelator 8". But probably you're better of with Seas Excel, Dayton, or maybe the carbon/ kevlar Usher W 8137 K. Before I forget the new Eton woofers are also coming next year (new motor systems).

Picture of the Usher

w8137k.jpg Image not available

[ThomasW]

Would you please tell me what veneer is on those speakers.

Not sure but I think it's a 'figured' maple

[JonMarsh]

Not sure but I think it's a 'figured' maple

Yes, it is a figured maple, no stain, just a wipe on poly finish.

One of many sets of M8ta's built to date, surprisingly. There's actually a lot of them out in the wilds... maybe not as many as Modula MTs, but closer than you would think.

[JonMarsh]

The 6600 design is revisited, they should be available again begin next year. Although the sensitivity is lowered for the new series. Besides the very nice measurements of the 6600, they also sound very good. I prefer those above the more expensive 7000. Also the 6600 is more friendly to filter, I think you can make a very good 2-way using this tweeter and a 8". You can do a Wilson ripoff , combining the 6600 with a Scanspeak Revelator 8". But probably you're better of with Seas Excel, Dayton, or maybe the carbon/ kevlar Usher W 8137 K. Before I forget the new Eton woofers are also coming next year (new motor systems).

Picture of the Usher

w8137k.jpg Image not available

Interesting about the Etons- I wonder if the motor is like what they developed (underhung) for the 12's used in the new Avalon Isis? My current project is an experiment with all underhung motor drivers, and all neodymium. Cross fingers...

That Usher doesn't look like it would be the easiest part to work with, slight impedance bobble at 1 kHz and the typical ScanSpeak rising response above than.

8137K.GIF Image not available

Good news for a lot of folks if the 66000 is available for real in Q1 2007. Doesn't affect any of my current projects, but who knows?

While hunting for info on the Usher, I came across the lautsprechershop on line, and wow, the prices in Euro's pretty much took my breath away!! They're a lot higher than our prices in dollars, even for European drivers!! Ouch!! A Dayton RS28a is 66 Euro! And high end Seas or Scanspeak tweeters are through the roof! Intertellar!


~Jon

[kravi4ka]

you should ask for the shipping rates and duties too...

[jdybnis]

That Usher doesn't look like it would be the easiest part to work with, slight impedance bobble at 1 kHz and the typical ScanSpeak rising response above than.

I've always been curious about why the typical ScanSpeak driver has that knee and rising response above 1k. It must be deliberate. I'm sure those guys are capable of designing a driver with a flat response. All the revelators have it in the same place, independent of cone size. Can anyone shed some light on this?

[ThomasW]

I've always been curious about why the typical ScanSpeak driver has that knee and rising response above 1k. It must be deliberate. I'm sure those guys are capable of designing a driver with a flat response. All the revelators have it in the same place, independent of cone size. Can anyone shed some light on this?

Read post #7 in this thread.

[Jed]

Before I forget the new Eton woofers are also coming next year (new motor systems).
]

More info please Taco.

Estimated Time of Arrival and which drivers? Where did you read this- I didn't see it in Klang and Ton.

[Drew]

Originally Posted by JonMarsh
The revelators are designed for a very specific crossover approach, and have a step up in the response above 800 Hz to make implementing BSC comp easier- but this means some non-ideal things going on with cone behavior that is not pistonic, and increases energy storage. Check out the impedance curves for evidence of this. Those drivers have beautiful motors, but I just don't agree with the cone design choices.

This has been troubling me as well as of late. I'm looking for a mid in the 100-1.5k (maybe 1.8k) range and had pretty much settled on on of the 7" revelators. Zaph's testing shows it to have the lowest nonlinear distortion, but then there's that impedance bobble at right about 800 Hz.

So, my question is this: does it matter? If, at the end of the day we're after low distortion, this driver should still be about the best, right? I could go with a W18, but it's distortion is a bit higher...

The 5" revelators don't seem to suffer from this, from what I can tell. But, they become thermally limited below my targeted SPL. And I really don't want to build an MTM, especially at these prices! Can't somebody just build the perfect driver? Sheesh... :P

[JonMarsh]

Look at MarkK's measurement of the linear distortion in the SS drivers like the 8543 and 8546 in the 800 Hz area compared with the W18- if you can live with that, then go for it. (do be sure to get off the W18 by 2 kHz, though). There are often tradeoffs between LF nonlinear performance, upper midrange non-linear performance, and upper midrange linear distortion. Good in one area is no guarantee of good in another- the linear distortion is more a function of the cone design.



Otherwise, considering the mix of performance, I'd go with a W18 at a mid level price point, the 830883 at a lower price point, or C90-T5 if cost is no issue, but not down to 100 Hz. Think ~250 Hz. It's a true midrange, not a midwoofer. If 100 Hz performance IS necessary, then maybe the C173-T6-95 is reasonable. No personal test data on that one, though. Possibly dual C152-T8-82 would be a better choice, as it has the more rigid dished in grille of the C90-T5, good response to 5 kHz, but two would be necessary to move much air down to 100 Hz. Low Le, too.

Midranges, I'd say, are very personal, but I think objective criteria can still be useful. In general though, low distortion drivers benefit from better electronics, and tube or non-loop feedback designs. Just my 0.02. I'd say listening and testing a few before making a commitment is a good idea.

[Drew]

Look at MarkK's measurement of the linear distortion in the SS drivers like the 8543 and 8546 in the 800 Hz area compared with the W18- if you can live with that, then go for it.

Well, this is just another way of looking at the frequency response - which plainly shows non-ideal behavior (ref. to my ideals) starting at 800hz. Can I live with it? I'm not sure - that's the question that I've been asking myself over and over! I rather not, but engineering is about making intelligent tradeoffs, and this is one option.

Midranges, I'd say, are very personal, but I think objective criteria can still be useful. In general though, low distortion drivers benefit from better electronics, and tube or non-loop feedback designs. Just my 0.02. I'd say listening and testing a few before making a commitment is a good idea.

Well, you guys have done a great job of narrowing the field for me, but by the time I buy a few revelators, and a few accutons, and an excel - well we're talking real money! We'll see what the Christmas bonus looks like this year...

Regarding real money, I bit the bullet and picked up an AX-7e off of Audiogon about a month ago. Dipping my toe into the rarified waters...my system doesn't do it justice, but it's better than my Parasound gear. I have to say, the EE in me was skeptical that global feedback loops would matter at audio frequencies, but they're doing something right over there. Either that, or everybody else it getting it wrong...

Now for the dedicated listening room, a bunch more music, etc. Sigh. I need help :lol: :

[TacoD]

More info please Taco.

Estimated Time of Arrival and which drivers? Where did you read this- I didn't see it in Klang and Ton.

To be more exact, March - 2007, I contacted Eton gmbh and got this quote from their sales manager (first read in the German magazine HobbyHifi, that there where new drivers coming).

While hunting for info on the Usher, I came across the lautsprechershop on line, and wow, the prices in Euro's pretty much took my breath away!! They're a lot higher than our prices in dollars, even for European drivers!! Ouch!! A Dayton RS28a is 66 Euro! And high end Seas or Scanspeak tweeters are through the roof! Intertellar!

That's the reason I do not understand why Americans think that Seas Excel is very expensive. It's a bargain compared to european prices. Importing from the states is not always an option, expensive importing duties and shipping costs to the Netherlands. Fortunately prices are becoming cheaper in the Netherlands, the shops losing sales to Internet shops.

[tktran]

I respectfully disagree with JonMarsh's conclusion from Mark K's measurements. We don't have to "live with" linear distortion anomalies, just have to deal with it.

What how I understand of it, these Energy Time curves are just another way at looking at FR measurements.

Therefore, any driver that has a flat frequency response at 800Hz, such as the W18EX, will have a very good Energy-Time curve like that one shown by Mark K.

The 8543/46 is not flat at ~800Hz. IF an appropriately designed crossover shapes the 8543/8546 response to become flat at 800Hz, does it not automatically cleans up the Energy-Time curve? It's the on-baffle, post-crossover, (ie. overall) linear-distortion that matters.

Of course, if there are multiple response irregularities, the work of equalizing out many dips and peaks makes the design of a passive crossover more difficult.

http://www.pvconsultants.com/audio/stored/Stored-energy3a.htm

[Feyz]

This has been troubling me as well as of late. I'm looking for a mid in the 100-1.5k (maybe 1.8k) range and had pretty much settled on on of the 7" revelators. Zaph's testing shows it to have the lowest nonlinear distortion...

Is your conclusion based on the latest Zaph's results??? An example comparison of two drivers below, guess which one is Revelator:

Zaph Audio 18W8531G-HD-2.gif Image not available

Zaph Audio 8945P-HD-2.gif Image not available

results to me are not surprising....

[Mark K]

Hi Feyz,

I saw that. Wow, the P version of the Usher looks very nice. I'd like to take a look at one of those. Now that Darren has left PE, my supply of occasional "test" drivers may have dried up...

[tktran]

Hi Feyz,

The 8945P has the best harmonic distortion of the group, particularly the important odd-orders; even better than the previous group leader, the 8531G.

Can you tell me why this is not surprising?

regards,
Thanh.

[JonMarsh]

I respectfully disagree with JonMarsh's conclusion from Mark K's measurements. We don't have to "live with" linear distortion anomalies, just have to deal with it.

What how I understand of it, these Energy Time curves are just another way at looking at FR measurements.

Therefore, any driver that has a flat frequency response at 800Hz, such as the W18EX, will have a very good Energy-Time curve like that one shown by Mark K.

The 8543/46 is not flat at ~800Hz. IF an appropriately designed crossover shapes the 8543/8546 response to become flat at 800Hz, does it not automatically cleans up the Energy-Time curve? It's the on-baffle, post-crossover, (ie. overall) linear-distortion that matters.

Of course, if there are multiple response irregularities, the work of equalizing out many dips and peaks makes the design of a passive crossover more difficult.

http://www.pvconsultants.com/audio/s...d-energy3a.htm

The problem to me is the "why" of why the FR isn't flat- when it's an engineered response in the cone that arises becuase of different parts storing energy mechancially and vibrating in a different way, out of phase, I don't really find that reducing that vibration with an external filter changes the sound to that of a truly pistonic driver, even once you've EQ'd things to be comparable flat...

I wrestled with the SS 7's and 8's QUITE a long time in the late 90's, ended up giving up on them for the same reasons I expect SL did. Great bass to lower midrange performance including distortion, and if you used them in a three way crossed below 800 Hz, they were super- at that time, pretty much impossible to beat. But in a speakers like the predecessor to the Modula MT or my X1 Klone of the late nineties, they couldn't hack a 2.0 kHz crossover due to what I heard in the upper midrange, where as an Eton 360 sounded much better in that range, especially in a three way where you limited the LF duties to 150 Hz. And that's even with the crummy motor the Eton had in comparison. Can't make a driver without a motor and a cone. So, then it was a question of what was the lesser of evils. The current Revlators are better than those older SS drivers, but they still have that quirky behavior and impedance glitch around 800 Hz. Just don't like that myself, but if it works OK for others, who am I to say? This isn't a dictatorship, you know!

Maybe we're each sensitive to different things in different degrees, and so pick different optimizations to make of the tradeoffs.

Oh, and Door number one is the 8531 Revlator, I believe.

[Drew]

Is your conclusion based on the latest Zaph's results??? An example comparison of two drivers below, guess which one is Revelator:

{snip}

results to me are not suprising....

My last visit to Zaph's website was a while ago - work's getting in the way of all my fun. I recognize that the revelator is the upper curve, so I guess I'll be headed back to his website to see what's changed recently.

Thanks for pointing this out.

[Feyz]

Can you tell me why this is not surprising?

Because, by comparing the motor design of these, and the quality of the material used in Usher's, this is what I would expect. Add to that I had compared 8945P, 8945A and SS 8545, (both measuring and listening). Don't have any experience with Revelator I gather it uses similar motor design as SS 8545 from its specs and description. Between the three I had experience, 8945P was my favourite for 2 way. Scan's and also Usher's 8945A and most others leave the air gap part of the motor uncovered by a shorting ring. This reduces the magnetic coupling between the voice coil and the shorting ring(s), which is the main cause of the higher order (and therefore intermodulation) distortion products. Usher's copper tube on 8945P is also shaped at the top and bottom by giving some curves, and has the aluminum phase plug that also works like a shorting ring. And comparing to Peerless and Audio Technology driver which also I believe uses a full copper sleve on the pole piece, looks like Usher's P driver had been using a thicker copper, and may be also the extra shaping of the copper sleeve and T pole piece shape also made it perform better.

I am bitter on the issue of the Usher drivers and from my days when I had imported them to US. When I had tried to market and sell them in the US, (which was at a time I had been laid off from work) I had been called a "price gouger" (Guess what I had been trying to sell 8945P's at one time for $75, and there wasn't a single buyer, what a gouging that must be.....) The driver's had been attacked unwarratedly by picking up any flaw signs on the specs or the measurement curves by people who had no first hand experience with them. Like people saying since 8945A was using aluminum rings and aluminum had higher resistance, it must have been inferior to SS 8545's motor that uses copper rings, or saying the spec of 8945A has higher Le number than SS 8545 so therefore it must be inferior (In fact impedance measurements of 8945A is a shows a bit lower Le than 8545, which is what matters) Some people made a big deal of the impedance wiggle at 800Hz of the, again with no first hand experience with the drivers. Where as at least same amount of wiggle occurs and documented on the Scan-Speak, Peerless, Seas paper cones and most other drivers with paper cone, and somehow same people seemed to turn a blind eye on those. (Jonmarsh is not one of them, he points out that problem whether it is on Scan or Usher, or Schmusher ) I even remember at one time someone who after listening to a demo on a DIY gathering had called the Carbon-Kevlar Usher 8137 (seeing a black painted version of it on a commercial monitor) is a copy of Eton's 8" driver. Guess what, the only thing common between the two drivers is the name kevlar taking place somewhere in the description of their cone material. I owned both of these drivers, for an 8" driver, how on earth one can call one of them a copy of the other is beyond me. To add insult into injury, when Zalytron took over the distributorship, some of these people who had tried to pick and show every fault on these drivers suddenly started talking not so badly about them. And then PE got over the distribiturship, and even made their 1" aluminum tweeter OEM'ed from Usher. To my suprise, some of the people who had criticized when I was trying to sell the Usher 9950 tweeter as inferior copy of Scan's 9500 tweeter (at least compare it to the 9700, whic had similar motor, not 9500......), had no problems and no critics when the tweeter looked like the Scan's aluminum dome tweeter when the tweeter had PE brand on it.

A few years back, I had taken my 2 way design of 8945P and 9950 to one DIY event. It was also the same event JohnK's NaO's were on display first time. At the event, my 2 ways, looked like just another 2 way, nothing to get people excited initially. And they had far east copy drivers on them, not much to care. When it was their turn to play, people were all chatting among themselves, not paying attention to the speaker whose turn was to play for those reasons. Then as they continued on to play, the room got quite. People were just listening now, I was watching their response from their body language. They were enjoying the sound, to me that was obvious. After the first song, JohnK asked "which speakers these were, they were sounding very nice". To show off their bass response and clarity, I also played Bela Fleck's Cosmic Hippo, and at one point when the bass guitar went to real low notes, a picture frame on the wall started rattling, one person in the room uttered a "wow" on that incidence, and the relatively small box 7" drivers were gracefully generating these bass tones. And next days, on the MAD board, all the talk on this DIY event was NaO's. Only one person posted a short remark on my Usher 2 ways that they were worth while listening, that is all.

On the NaO's, at the listening time, I had complained about their imaging and how the image was wandering, someone in that room hearing my words, with a smirk on his face turned to JohnK and said "your speaker's imaging is awful " and laughed, with a tone that implied I didn't know what I was talking about by complaining about their imaging. Well suprisingly !!, through the end of the day it was discovered that one of the woofers of the NaO's were off during the whole time they played....... And to me, it wasn't only that that had caused wandering imaging, it was also a combination of dipole sound and the room being assymettrical for the dipoles. Heard the same problem with Martin Logan statics on a dealer who had similar set up with a door opening that was close to one of the sperakers playing.


Anyways, all that said, I find Usher guilty and faulty on making their drivers look alikes like Scan-Speaks. They have the same problem with some of their finished products, like their amplifiers. There is no need for that in my opinion.

More than enough said, too much ranting and venting on my part

[Mark K]

But I'm not bitter.. :2guns:

Don't sugar coat it...

Hey, I always knew the Ushers were solid. And you were selling them for a great price.

But still, people can't help but buy a name. Even now. Folks read Zaph or my site, and just don't want to accept certain facts. Not that my data is perfect, but it's clear there are some expensive dogs out there. Or, at least, not worth the money.

[TacoD]

I used the Usher W 8137 K, and I am very impressed by it's build quality and performance in a closed box.

The reason I find it hard to interpret the measurements is the fact that I cannot directly correlate them to sound. So I chose my woofers partly based on specs and also based on listening. I always want to listen to the drivers before I comment on sound quality.

[JonMarsh]

M8ta possible midwoofer upgrade- if you've got the cojones

OK, this comes under the category of you probably wont' believe me, and if you do, you should consider counseling...


New 8" ceramic midwoofer from my favorite German driver company, Accuton.

C220N-T6-220

Underhung neodymium motor for 8" woofer, sensitivity of 93 dB/2.82 VRMS, actually looks like it's intended more as a midbass/midrange, with a lower working range of 75 Hz. OK, maybe it's really for a high SPL version of the ISIRIS. The kicker is the price tag- $575. Of course, that's cheap compared with what they ask for it in Europe, and VERY inexpensive compared with the diamond tweeters.

[cjd]

That's downright cheap! sign me up for, um... uh, marriage counseling I think. :P

C

[ThomasW]

New 8" ceramic midwoofer from my favorite German driver company, Accuton.
C220N-T6-220

Looks like a great candidate for your next line array .... 8O :B :roflmao:

[Paul H]

Jon,

Don't listen to Thomas' jeers - you go right ahead and grab a whole bunch of those Accutons - you'll show him! - right?

[nick.h]

Hi,

Im currently building a high-end 2 way bookshelf which I hope to be far supierior then the B&W 805s.

Using:

D2905/990000 ScanSpeak Revelator 1" Tweeter
18W/8531G00 ScanSpeak Revelator 6 1/2" Midwoofer


I then plan to add a 3 Way with alittle more bottom end using the same drivers and maybe a 8545 or something.

[Rolex]

let us know how it turns out. Are you designing the crossover?

[JonMarsh]

Jon,

Don't listen to Thomas' jeers - you go right ahead and grab a whole bunch of those Accutons - you'll show him! - right?

Well, by the time I save up enough to buy them, they'll probably be obsolete!

Here at Casa de Juan, we like to focus on realizable fantasies....

[peterS]

just wanted to add that some of the nicest bookshelfs ive ever heard were made by usher- korean guy he was actualy in america to buy usher and samsung to bring back into korea for a profit... funny how that works