Help me Obi Wan, your my only hope with the RS52

[Dennis H]

The Outlaw multichannel amps (not the monoblocks) are OEM'd from ATI and appear nearly identical to the ATI branded ones. SL recommends ATI amps for the Orion so I'd say that's a pretty good endorsement.

About their prepros, the 990 is said to be a better unit than the 950. The 990 is OEM'd from Sherwood Newcastle and the 950 came from elsewhere. The Newcastle branded prepro has gotten plenty of good reviews.

[Jim Holtz]

Hi Jed,

The LPA-1 runs in A/B. The other amps are a class H design which didn't do much for me technically. If I could afford it, I'd have a pure class A design amp.

Dennis: It sounds as if you have better info than I on Outlaw equipment. I did look at some used ATI amps sometime ago when I was in the market for an amp and user reviews were mixed so I dropped them from my search. That has been a few years so maybe things have changed since then.

I can only comment with authority on the LPA-1. My friend with the Plinius commented that he should consider selling the Plinius and replacing it with a LPA-1. I took that as a large compliment from someone who doesn't say things like that unless they mean it.

FWIW....

Jim

[---k---]

Jim,
You got me interested in that LPA-1, DANG YOU!

[Jim Holtz]

Hi Ryan,

It comes with a 30 day money back guarantee so there's little to lose. It does weigh 63 pounds though so shipping would cost a bit. I've heard a lot of high end equipment and, IMHO, the LPA-1 sound quality is as good as the majority of them. I think it's amazing for the price plus it comes with a five year warranty. It's hard to go wrong.

EDIT: Ryan I forgot to do this... Sorry to be an enabler. It's fun though and you'd love the amp! :T

Jim

[Dennis H]

I did look at some used ATI amps sometime ago when I was in the market for an amp and user reviews were mixed so I dropped them from my search. That has been a few years so maybe things have changed since then.

Well, I take user reviews with a grain of salt if I don't know the user. I give more weight to people whose opinions I respect. Given his proven record of designing great speakers, I tend to trust SL's opinion ;x( , which seems to be confirmed by many of the Orion owners out there using ATI amps.

[Sefferdog]

Hi Jed,

The LPA-1 runs in A/B. The other amps are a class H design which didn't do much for me technically. If I could afford it, I'd have a pure class A design amp.

Dennis: It sounds as if you have better info than I on Outlaw equipment. I did look at some used ATI amps sometime ago when I was in the market for an amp and user reviews were mixed so I dropped them from my search. That has been a few years so maybe things have changed since then.

I can only comment with authority on the LPA-1. My friend with the Plinius commented that he should consider selling the Plinius and replacing it with a LPA-1. I took that as a large compliment from someone who doesn't say things like that unless they mean it.

FWIW....

Jim

Jim,

Received my LPA-1/LMC-1 combo tonight, unpacked to inspect for damage. I am expecting to hook it up this Thursday, which by some trick of fate is when I expect to have the Statements in a state that I can hook them up for their maiden voyage! I will post my impressions. :T

Wade

[littlesaint]

Jim,
You got me interested in that LPA-1, DANG YOU!

I put in an order. At that price plus 10% off plus free shipping, it's to good to pass up. The way I see it, an amp is an investment that lasts as long as it does. The technology isn't going to change tomorrow, so it's an easier purchase than a receiver or pre-pro. I'll turn my receiver (Yamaha V661) into a cheap pre/pro and should be good for awhile.

[Sefferdog]

I put in an order. At that price plus 10% off plus free shipping, it's to good to pass up. The way I see it, an amp is an investment that lasts as long as it does. The technology isn't going to change tomorrow, so it's an easier purchase than a receiver or pre-pro. I'll turn my receiver (Yamaha V661) into a cheap pre/pro and should be good for awhile.

I bought the LMC-1 pre/pro also. I was going to buy the MMC-1 but it was lacking some features I wanted. In purchasing the LMC-1 I qualify for 40% off my next purchase from Emotiva, and hopefully the new line due out early next year will incorporate those particular features.

[littlesaint]

I bought the LMC-1 pre/pro also. I was going to buy the MMC-1 but it was lacking some features I wanted. In purchasing the LMC-1 I qualify for 40% off my next purchase from Emotiva, and hopefully the new line due out early next year will incorporate those particular features.

The pre/pro caught my eye, but with my HD-DVD and DVD-Audio, I require multichannel PCM over HDMI which I don't think they offer. I will be looking forward to a future product though.

[Sefferdog]

The pre/pro caught my eye, but with my HD-DVD and DVD-Audio, I require multichannel PCM over HDMI which I don't think they offer. I will be looking forward to a future product though.

That is one of the features I wanted that will be out next year. I don't require that right now though, so I bought the LMC-1 to limp me through until the next gen comes along. Then, as a result of this, I will receive the 40% off.

[littlesaint]

That is one of the features I wanted that will be out next year. I don't require that right now though, so I bought the LMC-1 to limp me through until the next gen comes along. Then, as a result of this, I will receive the 40% off.

The 40% off is interesting. Buying both is around a $400 premium over just the LPA-1. As long as the new processor is around $1K, you don't really lose anything provided you are looking to spend $1K on a processor.

[Hdale85]

You guys compare it to something like Rotel? Or anything? Is it comparable at all? I mean I understand its a lot cheaper. Just curious. Was going to build an amp but thats pretty cheap for a 7 channel amp.

[Sefferdog]

The 40% off is interesting. Buying both is around a $400 premium over just the LPA-1. As long as the new processor is around $1K, you don't really lose anything provided you are looking to spend $1K on a processor.

And actually the processor I want will be well over 1K, basically making the LMC-1 free and then some.

[Dean100]

I'm with Jon, that RPA-1 looks like it would be worth a try. I'm definitely a 2 channel type of guy and for the price it looks great. May have to place an order by tomorrow.

[littlesaint]

You guys compare it to something like Rotel? Or anything? Is it comparable at all? I mean I understand its a lot cheaper. Just curious. Was going to build an amp but thats pretty cheap for a 7 channel amp.

The 5 channel class AB Rotels have a larger transformer 1500VA vs 1200VA, require less power consumption, a bit less distortion, costs twice as much :E. Of course these are just paper specs. The proof is in the pudding, so you'd have to take a listen.

I had a Sunfire 200x5 5 years ago, and it has always been the best amp I've ever owned. It's class D which some don't like, but it was loud and clean with a ton of headroom and always cool to the touch. I'm interested to see how this one compares.

[Jim Holtz]

You guys compare it to something like Rotel? Or anything? Is it comparable at all? I mean I understand its a lot cheaper. Just curious. Was going to build an amp but thats pretty cheap for a 7 channel amp.

Caution! Opinion alert!

I think it's better than the Rotel, Adcom, B&K and Parasound amps I've heard in the past. As I stated in my original post, I felt the sound quality of the LPA-1 was better than my Hafler 280XL that had close to Musical Concepts Signature series mods. The only thing that was original was the case and output mosfets. My 280XL amp held it's own quite well against a Classe', Threshold and Pass labs in a comparison some audio friends and I had once upon a time. So, yes, I think the LPA-1 is a killer amp at several times the price.

That is my opinion only. YMMV...

Jim

[Hdale85]

Hmm...sounds like I may have to look into it instead of building something. Or at least use it for HT use and build a nice Class A amp for 2 channel audio :B.

[ahaik]

Jim,
You got me interested in that LPA-1, DANG YOU!

You can say that again, for the RPA-1 though, I am also a 2 channel kind of a guy.
I'm starting to seriously thinking of replacing my Parasound HCA-2200 II with one of these :banghead: did anyone hear both ?

[littlesaint]

You can say that again, for the RPA-1 though, I am also a 2 channel kind of a guy.
I'm starting to seriously thinking of replacing my Parasound HCA-2200 II with one of these :banghead: did anyone hear both ?

Remember you can audition one for 30 days. All it costs is return shipping if you don't want it.

[dlneubec]

FWIW,

My expereince is limited with different amps, but I've owned the LPA-1 for about two months or so and been very pleased with it. It replaced an Adcom GPA-5400. I think the LPA-1 is the better sounding amp and it is certainly an improvement over my HK 7-channel reveiver as well.

[kvardas]

Curious to how these amps stack up against the UcD amplifier technology, such as the UcD 180.

[Hdale85]

Well very different technology. A lot of people don't like Class D.

[JonMarsh]

I have some UcD modules, but haven't had time to finish building a test platform. Power supply and grounding layout is critical for getting the best from them, I hear.

I must saying I'm struggling with myself to keep from ordering an RPA-1. Not that I don't have more urgent things to do with the money, but there is some tempation- would be good to have something more "budget friendly" to recommend that I know personally is up to the job, and the things I'm hearing from JimH and the Secrets reviewer are promising. But I need crossover parts more....

[cjd]

Jon, I've heard that about the UCD modules. I've heard it first-hand (or is that ear?) with the LM Overture amps too (which I continue to like despite everything. :P Simplicity, simplicity... )

I still don't know how I want to run the HT in the future. I may let the HTPC do the signal processing, analog outs to amps. But I don't know. I probably would put a nice 8 channel relay based attenuator in there... but then, I realize how lazy I really am...

[TurboFC3S]

You can say that again, for the RPA-1 though, I am also a 2 channel kind of a guy.
I'm starting to seriously thinking of replacing my Parasound HCA-2200 II with one of these :banghead: did anyone hear both ?

I've owned both an MPS-1 (not the LPA-1) and a Parasound HCA-2200 mkII. The MPS-1 is the only Emotiva amp I've heard, but it was totally dead and lifeless to me. It was quite similar to my Sherwood AM-9080 that I only paid $350 for, and my Adcom GFA-7400 that I paid $400 for.

The Parasound HCA-2200 mkII by the way is a fantastic amp, it's much fuller with more body and much less grain to the sound. I've also had a Parasound Halo A23 amp, and enjoyed the 2200 mkII more.

But these days ICEpower is it for me, I have a pair of D-Sonic 1000S - they each have a pair of the 1000ASP modules and are rated at 525wpc. I've now owned 5 different ICEpower amps, and all are absolutely fantastic.

Sorry to go off topic, although it's somewhat on the new topic of this thread If you have any questions for me about amps, please pm me instead of asking in this thread.

[PoorboyMike]

I must saying I'm struggling with myself to keep from ordering an RPA-1.

You can say that again. I'm struggling from buying a bunch of stuff right now.


Must save money for closing costs........must have new house before splurging on audio/video equipment....... :M

[Hdale85]

Turbo the MPS-1 is more like Class D though which I would expect to hear that sort of review on it. The LPA-1 is Class A/B so might be a lot different.

[littlesaint]

I've owned both an MPS-1 (not the LPA-1) and a Parasound HCA-2200 mkII. The MPS-1 is the only Emotiva amp I've heard, but it was totally dead and lifeless to me. It was quite similar to my Sherwood AM-9080 that I only paid $350 for, and my Adcom GFA-7400 that I paid $400 for.

The Parasound HCA-2200 mkII by the way is a fantastic amp, it's much fuller with more body and much less grain to the sound. I've also had a Parasound Halo A23 amp, and enjoyed the 2200 mkII more.

But these days ICEpower is it for me, I have a pair of D-Sonic 1000S - they each have a pair of the 1000ASP modules and are rated at 525wpc. I've now owned 5 different ICEpower amps, and all are absolutely fantastic.

Sorry to go off topic, although it's somewhat on the new topic of this thread If you have any questions for me about amps, please pm me instead of asking in this thread.

ICEpower is a very good technology, but again your talking class D power which to me has always been a little "sterile" (though I haven't heard ICEpower amps). That's OK for HT. As I said one of my favorite all time amps is the Sunfire 5x200. But for music, I prefer class AB or, if you can get them, pure class A tube amps.

[TurboFC3S]

Turbo the MPS-1 is more like Class D though which I would expect to hear that sort of review on it. The LPA-1 is Class A/B so might be a lot different.

Class-H is a lot more like A/B than it is D, the difference between H and A/B is the 'fancy' power supply, that's all.

[TurboFC3S]

ICEpower is a very good technology, but again your talking class D power which to me has always been a little "sterile" (though I haven't heard ICEpower amps). That's OK for HT. As I said one of my favorite all time amps is the Sunfire 5x200. But for music, I prefer class AB or, if you can get them, pure class A tube amps.

Today's ICEpower and Hypex amps sound absolutely nothing like the class-D amps of recent past. The ICE amps have been universally praised as some of the most uncolored amps on the planet, and the 1000ASP especially has an incredible midrange presence that I've only heard matched by my McCormack DNA-225.

[cjd]

but it was totally dead and lifeless to me.

This was the case for the system I heard using the Emotiva. But I had no opportunity to compare so it could have been the Behringer crossovers or something. The drivers, it should not have been as I've heard them (Seas Excel) elsewhere.

C

[JonMarsh]

Jon, I've heard that about the UCD modules. I've heard it first-hand (or is that ear?) with the LM Overture amps too (which I continue to like despite everything. :P Simplicity, simplicity... )

I still don't know how I want to run the HT in the future. I may let the HTPC do the signal processing, analog outs to amps. But I don't know. I probably would put a nice 8 channel relay based attenuator in there... but then, I realize how lazy I really am...

It takes a lot of hours to do projects like that- maybe it's not lazy, it's just having a "real" life, too! :B

[littlesaint]

Getting a little back on topic...

If budget doesn't allow for 5 (dare I say 7) of these WMTW for HT, what would be a good surround compliment? I plan on at least these for LCR, but I think they may be a little overkill for surrounds. Would the Modula MT be a good match? I'm not worried about voicing for movies, but multichannel music would be a concern. I will have an IB sub, so bass extension doesn't have to be super low, but I'd like to get good response down to 40 or 50Hz.

[WillyD]

Would the Modula MT be a good match?

I'd say so!

[JonMarsh]

Everyone has different opinions about what's required for surround speakers.

In essence, it depends a lot on the program material whether one approach seems better than another. I'm of the school that having equivalent matched speakers all around is the best way to go- call that the "Widescreen Review" approach, as that is mirrored in their evaluation systems at that magazine.

For HT or music material that uses surround speakers more for ambience, the dissimilar small surrounds usually used in the rears for typical HT setups is probably fine. OTOH, especially with music, there are many discs that use the system in a SURROUND sound mode, with equal musical weight to all channels. Some folks love discs like that, some don't- that's not to discuss here. What is fairly obvious is that that kind of material works best with the same speakers everywhere. Sigh... doesn't help a fella's budget, though, does it?

Three way's aren't often used in surrounds because of the inherent cost of the crossover, which is often close to double. In the case of this design, the crossover is only about 40-50% more. The RS180 version will save money on the drivers, but incur it in the crossover, due to the need for suppression of the metal cone breakup modes.

Many speakers might be used for the rear surrounds- the main caveat is that they should have similar sounding drivers, or identical drivers, and a similar approach to crossovers so that the power response in room is similar.

Sometimes mixing three ways and two ways can be a problem if side blending is done (same program in Right Front and Right Rear speakers), because the drivers may not be in the same relative phase throughout the whole frequency spectrum for the different speakers. This is especially of concern for two ways versus three ways, and one of the strongest technical arguments for NOT mixing speaker types.

[---k---]

Jon,
At what height do you plan to have your rear speakers. I've always thought that was another wrinkle in the debate. With music they should be normal, but for movies the sound is mixed to be over your head.

[littlesaint]

Jon,
At what height do you plan to have your rear speakers. I've always thought that was another wrinkle in the debate. With music they should be normal, but for movies the sound is mixed to be over your head.

The midrange will probably be at head level or just above. I'm wondering as well how these would work horizontal as surrounds since the design is as a center channel.

[littlesaint]

Everyone has different opinions about what's required for surround speakers.

In essence, it depends a lot on the program material whether one approach seems better than another. I'm of the school that having equivalent matched speakers all around is the best way to go- call that the "Widescreen Review" approach, as that is mirrored in their evaluation systems at that magazine.

...

That was my feeling as well. Most for the music I listen to is 2 channel. As good as DPL IIx is on stereo material, I prefer my music unadulterated. However, there are a few DVD-Audio titles that do an incredible job in 5 channels (Beatles Love my most recent favorite) provided they are engineered that way. I'll see what the final design and cost is and go from there.

Also, those Statements (even the minis) ;x( would go great with my tube amps for stereo music. They're making it hard to budget everything for these speakers.

[Sefferdog]

My plans have changed regarding this project, and as such I have an enclosure that I will not be needing. If there is someone in Central Florida who could use this cabinet, PM me and we can work something out. I don't want to fool around with shipping but a local pickup would be great.

I also have the mid and tweet for this project that have never been mounted, for actual cost, if you need them. The mid woofs are being used in another project though.

BTW - Did I mention the cab is free to a good home? 8O Here is a link to a couple of pics:

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php?p=342639&postcount=250

[Spanky Ham]

Seffer,
I may be interested the next time I pass through, if you still have the stuff.

Thomas,
I think this thread has ran its course, as every thing can be found in the other thread. For those still reading, the linked thread is the one with build info.

[JonMarsh]

Actually, there will be a "real" build thread, "Speaker Camp" is more the eye of the the shoulder into the development process, you guys got to see how it can be a little chaotic if you try to do it in a hurry and the normal tools (LspCAD) aren't at hand initially.

More front panel and crossover assembly work today, but I'm also cheating and procuring parts for another project and building the Isirs Test Article Number 2.

[Jed]

More front panel and crossover assembly work today, but I'm also cheating and procuring parts for another project and building the Isirs Test Article Number 2.

Cheating? Nah. Your title "Isiris Test Article #2" definitely has my interest though. Details? :unsure:

[Daveis]

So is everyone done with the RS52?

I've been trying to subjectively decide what I like about it and what I don't. I love guitar and female vocals, but what I detect on some types of music is a metallic harshness.

Is this most likely the C-T-C spacing with the tweeter and my 4000hz crossover?

Am I hearing traces of the 13khz peak?

I will say that using a relatively steep LR4 electrical at 4kz seems to improve on the sound immensely over 12db or 18db crossovers.

Is the Usher 9845 2" soft dome a worthy replacement? Seems like Usher makes the RS52 for Dayton.

[Jed]

Post a schematic of your frequency response, crossover, etc for us to take a look at. Otherwise it could be anything. For starters, how low are you crossing the RS52? The metallic harshness could be that you didn't notch the peak at 10kish, or you could simply have some diffraction issues causing a ripple at 2k. Lots of possibilities that could be contributing to what you are hearing, so we need a bit more data to help you.

[Daveis]

I will try to get real measurements. But for now I am using the RS52 with LR4 digitally done at 800hz and 4kz.

Buddy Jake P. came over tonight and listened to the Iowa 2007 Speaker DIY test CD and seemed to think everything sounded OK with no harshness. I'm not using a notch filter.