Premium DIY designs ?

[Brian Bunge]

My Sherwood Newcastle receiver has performed quite respectably with my big 3-way towers. I recently got to hear them hooked up to an Anthem 7 channel amp with only 2 channels running. The Anthem was around 150W/channel into 4 ohms. I'll say that I think the Anthem was a little nicer in how it handled dynamics, especially in the lower frequencies, but the difference definitely was not night and day. The amps in the Newcastle receivers are pretty robust.

[Jim Holtz]

hrm.. gainclone amp.. very interesting. I'll look in to that..

anyone in minnesota have the dayton DIYs? Would love to hear em.

also any links for the gainclone amp?

The Modula M/T's, Natalie P's and RS 3-way designed by Dennis Murphy will all be at the Iowa DIY Speaker Event in October if you'd like to join us. I'm guessing that there'll also be 20+ more speakers including a 3-way with Accuton mids there. One of the local guys also has a pair of John K's NaO's with Scan 8545 drivers that I hope he'll bring. John Pastuck brought his Excel based NaO's in 2004 which were very, very nice. :T Anyway, lots to listen to. Email me if you want to get on the Event info email list.

Jim

[andyisc00l]

Interesting, sounds great. sent pm.

[TacoD]

hrm.. gainclone amp.. very interesting. I'll look in to that..

anyone in minnesota have the dayton DIYs? Would love to hear em.

also any links for the gainclone amp?

I can solder, if there is something that is a little bit more complex(not terribly complex) I wouldn't mind trying it out if its gonna be higher quality. Any suggestions? And sorry how many watts @ 4 ohms did you say? Hopefully can make one with more then 300 doubtfully though? Was thinking about a rotel rmb-1095, will definatly outperform the rotel right?
Or maybe just use higher quality parts!?

Again thanks of all the help, appreciate it you guys are awesome.

https://www.hypex.nl

[cjd]

The "gainclone" style amps, for those who don't know, are a copy of an amp called the Gaincard, an minimalist 25 watt amp from 47labs.

The Gaincard was a straight implementation of the datasheet. The topology is NOT something 47Labs came up with.

They were simply the first to show that a chip amp could produce a sound that audiophiles would love.

Somewhere out there, Jon is cringing.. I just know it.

Also, from what I understand, the Hypex modules are insanely picky about power supply (and not sure what else) - they can sound pretty harsh.

C

[andyisc00l]

www.hypex.nl

are there a few designs that people generally build? and do you expect these to sound better then rotel? I finally got something to keep me busy go figure theres so many audio enthusiasts...fun stuff. Sorry for all the questions lol but is there multi channel amp or do you guys just stack em?

fark I just realized the shops in the UK :-( I'll keep looking for links in the US anyone else has any let me me know thanks a bunch.

andy

[knifeinthesink]

addressing the issue of decoding and the use of gainclones, there are many DVD players that output decoded audio to discreet chanels.

I own the Pioneer 588, which cost $150 +/- abit, and which has stellar audio quality. I specifically looked for something like this so I could use gainclones if I decided to set up a home theatre system, which I haven't. Everyday though, I am startled by the two channel sound quality. One of the clinchers to buy this was that a guy on one of the forums had a $1000 rotel he bought in 2001 and picked up the pioneer to play sacd and dvd-a. Impressed by the sound quality of those two formats he put a regular CD in and the regular cd playback was better then his Rotel. Im not suprised having owned this for awhile now.

I dont mean to change the subject though. Just pointing out that gainclones can be viable for hometheatre without expensive decoders.

Andy, the gainclones are probably the most popular DIY amp due to its simplicity and high quality. If you really want to up the level of complexity, and maybe the quality, go to www.passdiy.com, google aleph diy, http://sound.westhost.com/index.html, and search this forum and diyaudio for amp designs. Somewhere on diyaudio, there is a thread were people list their choices for the top 5 best sounding diy amp designs. There are many very high quality designs, some with pc boards, and these are on par with the very best. In fact, for some (but not everyone), the original pass labs Aleph amps where the best commercial amps available.

Just be aware, a gainclone can be built in a few hours with minimal equipment, whereas any of the others are likely to be much more involved.

[Hank]

Andy, best of luck to you and I hope you really enjoy the DIY experience! My two cents of advice is: Do not spend your entire budget on speakers and amps. Save some for getting your listening room response plotted and then buy or DIY room treatments. Only one person (Amphiprion :T ) on this thread has pointed out this critical component of your playback system. Proper room treatment can result in better sound than the difference between driver makes.

Now get out that checkbook and have fun.

[Brian Walter]

anyone in minnesota have the dayton DIYs? Would love to hear em.

Hi Andy,

I live in Eagan, Minnesota and built the RS-3-ways. If you would like to listen to them we might be able to work something out, send me a PM. My schedule is currently rather busy, but I do plan on bringing them to the Iowa DIY event in October.

Brian Walter

[andyisc00l]

yeee haa I get to audition the RS-3 ways :-) Thanks alot for your help you guys appreciated.


I just got an email from a guy saying $300 a speaker that seems kinda steep does it not? Also not including the crossovers.

[joecarrow]

So, what did you think? Do they live up to what you wanted?

[andyisc00l]

dont know yet haven't gotten to audition them yet I will in the next week or so I think he said hes out of town, soon thoughq

[joecarrow]

Sorry, I misread your first post. I hope it goes well for you.

Frankly, $300 per cabinet for a set of speakers this size isn't outrageous. The 0.75 cubic foot enclosures at Parts Express are about $85 each, and they're mass produced.

You should ask what's the biggest factor in the cost- maybe there's some wiggle room.

[Brian Bunge]

I wouldn't touch them for less than $300 each. That's assuming we're talking with a decent (but not exotic) veneer.

[andyisc00l]

So $300 a fair deal eh? I'm guessing what, $400 for the parts, $300 on crossovers? how much do the crossovers cost? Guessing what, like $1000 for the pair maybe more? Kinda spendy hopefully it'll be better then the pair of polk lsi 15s I was thinking about.

[Dennis H]

If you go with the DM Seas design, drivers run about $150 and the crossover about $75 per speaker. More if you go with premium crossover components but it's not necessary. You can always swap them out later if you feel the need. Check the big thread for several BOMs.

[Brian Walter]

Andy listened to my RS-3-ways, (TMWW) last night, and based on the types of music and SPL he likes to listen at, I think the TMWW's may be a little marginal SPL wise for him. I think he would be better served with the MTMWW as it would be able to play louder and/or provide more overhead. This statement is based on the assumption that he would run them full range. A lot of the music he listens to has some pretty deep base that might strain the 8's at high SPL levels. If he was to run them in the small setting with a sub this certainly wouldn't be a problem, but IMHO, you'd be by-passing some of the best qualities of the TMWW then, the bass response.

I hope Andy posts, as I'm curious to see what he has to say about the RS-3-ways.

Brian Walter

[TacoD]

And using a 6"? for the 'M'

[fjhuerta]

Also, be prepared for some sticker shock on the cabs. A bespoke set of really good cabinets for a pair of tower speakers could easily run $2000 or more from a cabinet-maker. Quality artisanal handwork is pricey.

This is quite true. The carpenter who builds my cabinets charged me $500 for my Nat P enclosures. They look way better than commercial speakers, though - they included the grill, a great polyurethane finish, and 6MM Oak over 1" MDF, braced.

Now, he wants $500 for another set of enclosures (which are way smaller) because they are maple and polyester on top...

Quality has a price (a steep one, most of the time).

[Brian Walter]

And using a 6"? for the 'M'

Actually, I was thinking of the RS-3-way Towers project listed under Brian Bunge's thread in the Mission Accomplished section. It uses the RS-180's for the M's and RS270's for the W's, IIRC.

Brian

[Brian Bunge]

Brian,
Yes, my towers use dual RS-180's (7" drivers) as the mids and dual RS-270's (10" drivers) for the woofers.

[knifeinthesink]

maybe that project with the ssmtmww would suit him. Certainly make a strong visual statement. Cant remember the name of the thread. Something about being a noob i think.

[andyisc00l]

yea thanks alot brian appreciate the audition and the interesting conversation. Don't know what I'm gonna do. They sounded pretty decent but they didn't really surpass my primus 360s. Of course the daytons had 8inch drivers instead of the 6inch drivers on the primus 360s, more bass, but for some reason it sounded like it was missing something. Actually to tell you the truth the bass was the most impressive part, definatly owned my primus 360s, but it was definatly missing something. As for now I'm gonna stick with primus360s/ps12, maybe try auditioning some other diy speakers if anyone in minnesota has them..:-) please message me if you have any other diy projects and are in the minneapolis area, would love to hear them..

[CraigJ]

Hi Andy,

If you ever get down to see a Badger game, you are more than welcome to audition the Arvo Type 3's.

Craig

[Brian Walter]

They sounded pretty decent but they didn't really surpass my primus 360s.

I think I'm going to have to audition the Primus 360's to see what I've been missing. We all have different tastes in music and different expectations of how we think a speaker should sound, so I respect Andy's opinion of the RS-3-ways. I know that the first time I heard the RS-3-ways I was a little underwhelmed, but after making a few corrections and adjustments, I have come to really like the sound of them. So I am really curious to find out how the Infinity Primus 360's sound and see if I am missing something (distortion maybe?). The Primus may very well do some things better than my speakers, if so, that would certainly give me reason (excuse) to build something different.

Brian Walter

[agrippa]

Andy:
Check out Tony Gee's site herehttp://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/

He has a nice selection or good designs using Seas and Scan speak products.

[TacoD]

I want to stress that the designs on this board are more balanced than the forward sounding speakers of Tony. And I am not the only one... I find the designs of Troels a much more interesting alternative http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Lou...r_Projects.htm

[agrippa]

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Lo...er_Projects.htm

yup... i forgot to mention this site. I haven't had the pleasure to listen to any of them though. Forward sounding??? I might have an idea of what this means as I have read this term on speaker boards once and a while. Can I get a definition of forward sounding?
Thanks.
Ooooo....also,

This brings up a good point. Is there a web page that adresses terms like the one above? I have a good idea what a bunch of these terms mean but I need a reference. Some one says bright... I know bright....some one says detailed... i know detailed. But I don't know them all.
Thanks

[agrippa]

AH... got it
this site has a bunch of terms:

http://www.bus.ucf.edu/cwhite/theater/Glossary.htm