Dual RL-p15 D4 Sub

[SteveCallas]

Can you position the sub any closer to your seating position, as that will result in more output at the seat? Are your mains 15' back as well? Can you take a picture of the room that shows both the seating position and the sub - sorry for all the questions

[---k---]

120db at the seat 15' away??? 8O 8O 8O 8O

Wow, that is a lot of output. You arn't impressed by that???
I suggest you get your hearing checked, becuase that is a heck of a lot of output. Play some Blue Man Group that loud and your ears will be hurting bad by the second song.

[SteveCallas]

You arn't impressed by that???

I know....some people, right? Just messing with you Andy. Seriously though, 15' is a pretty long distance - if you can shorten it, not only will you get more output at the seat, but I bet your FR would be better too.

[WillyD]

Thank god he built a 2x 15" high power ported sub, because few commercially availble, or even lesser DIY options, would satsify him.

[Andy Shoppa]

Haha I didn't say that I wasn't impressed or satisfied. But my old set-up was 3 low-buck 15" car drivers, two in 8ft3 sealed, and the other in it's own 8ft3 sealed enclosure, powered by a Optimus receiver that would put out 110-114 db, so I was sort of expecting more for my $1000 investment. But then again I am sure that a lot of it has to do with the room and set uo.

I'll take pics when I get all the crap picked up, this is in a bedroom, and you'll see what I'm working with. Also I need to do test tones and mess with the eq before I get too worried about output.

[Andy Shoppa]

Well here's what my room looks like, as far as an over all view. I cannot take a pic that shows both the sub and the seating position as they are on opposite ends of the room. But here's my MS Paint skills again, a over head view, and a pic of the back of the sub box:




Also sat down and did some messing with my eq this afternoon. Got my 10-99 hz test tone cd out and the RS spl meter and after about an hour of messing with the BFD, came up with this, Subs only with it crossed over at 80 hz. I may try turning it around so the drivers face out and repeating it tomorrow, but I had better luck with my old set-up facing away from the listening position.

[ThomasW]

I may try turning it around so the drivers face out and repeating it tomorrow, but I had better luck with my old set-up facing away from the listening position.

Very strange, and very counter intuitive.....

[SteveCallas]

:E You've stuffed the thing in a freakin closet? And the drivers are facing the back of the closet? Whatever the situation calls for I guess, but that explains a LOT! If you'd like to try an experiment (please, for your own sake :T ), take it out of the closet and put it against the right wall between the closet and your bed with the drivers facing into the room. You're almost 100% guaranteed to get better results.

[Andy Shoppa]

Steve, I would try that, but unfortunately there is a radiator there and a window, so that's not a viable option, I could however put it infront of the closet door on the wall.

I tried turning it around in the closet so the drivers face out, about an hour ago got done with it. Without Eq, they were the same for 10-25 Hz test tones, 25-32Hz facing into the closet was about 2 db louder, by the time I got to the 40 Hz, it grew to 4db louder, at 48 it was 8 db louder, then they evened back out at 54Hz. So I guess I'll leave it pointed into the closet since I already have my eq set for it.

I may get around to trying to re-arrange the entire room one of these days, but for now I'm calling it good.

Next up will be either NatP's or the WWMT's. Or a new TV stand, I think that's top on the list.

[---k---]

Without Eq, they were the same for 10-25 Hz test tones, 25-32Hz facing into the closet was about 2 db louder, by the time I got to the 40 Hz, it grew to 4db louder, at 48 it was 8 db louder, then they evened back out at 54Hz.

That doesn't sound like a very flat response. Sounds like the closet is giving you a good bit of gain from 25 - 48hz.

???

Does it sound better facing in than out w/o EQ? You shouldn't have a problem with having enough output capablities, so I would start with the flatest response, not necessesarierly which has more output.

[chasw98]

Andy:
Do you have any sort of multimeter that can measure DC resistance or Ohms? Check the resistance on your cabinet and see if it measures less than 4 ohms. If it does, then you have wired incorrectly for running an EP2500 in mono. That would be the reason for seeing the clip lights. Most of us that have this amp have a hard time even getting the clip lights to flash. The amp will run, but not for a long time. The amp has the capability to run each individual channel at 2 ohms, but in mono you must have at least a 4 ohm load for the amp. Anything less will shorten the amp's life very quickly. Just a troubleshooting thought.

Chuck

[SteveCallas]

That doesn't sound like a very flat response. Sounds like the closet is giving you a good bit of gain from 25 - 48hz.

It's because his enclosure is pretty far undersized at 350 liters for two drivers with a 15hz tune. His low end will suffer.

That would be the reason for seeing the clip lights

Or because he is playing it at 120db levels from 15' away

[Owen Bartley]

Just catching up on this thread after a long time away. Andy, you've built yourself a serious sub, and invested a good deal of money. If I were you, I would experiment with room placement (even if you can't keep it there, try a few different spots just to see if that is your problem). Then once you do find your final position, I'd tame some of the peaks and EQ in a bit or a "house curve" which can tame some boominess and might even help a tiny bit with the clip.

Oh, and good work on the construction, looks like a solid build!

[boostick4]

So Andy when are you going to build another one? I'm very seriously thinking about getting 4 of them and putting each in 6ft^2 each when I comeback for Thanksgiving. As probably the only member here to actually have heard Andy's system I can honestly say his room is great for the low stuff. I have listened to it in many different stages and this one is the tightest, cleanest and loudest yet. For some reason the subs facing into the closet are the way to go. This is the best configuration in my room as well. I think there is something to be learned here because you basically get free output by this placement in his configuration and in mine. 8) However, I was expecting a little more output for his investment. Don't get me wrong it is extremely loud and deep :E the best I've ever heard! This way nothing should break though and he is happy and that is what is really matters anyway right. Let’s hear an update on how you like it after listening for a few weeks. :T

Woody

[SteveCallas]

Ehhh. Steve nn built a dual RLp15 sub in a more optimized enclosure for a similar tune and is flat to below 15hz in room. This design is undersized and the low end suffers because of it - dropoff starts ~20hz. Putting it in the closet may give a few more dbs due to a 4th boundary, but I'd have to imagine this impacts sound quality.

[Andy Shoppa]

Ehhh. Steve nn built a dual RLp15 sub in a more optimized enclosure for a similar tune and is flat to below 15hz in room.

I'd be interested in seeing a Unibox frequency plot of Stevenn's sub vs. what I built. I'd run one myself, but my CPU doesn't like Unibox. But the difference in WinISD between a 12.4ft3 vs a 18ft3 both tuned to 15 hz is about 2.5 db @ 15hz. Basically the 12.4ft3 box is the biggest box that I was able to make, and I guess I now know that it's quite a bit undersized, and that it's really only big enough for 1 Rlp tuned to 15hz. Maybe sometime in the near future I won't be so restricted on size, but for now I don't have any room for a larger box. Meh I could try and make several cuts on the eq, I think I may be able to get it fairly flat down to 13hz, and I'll try it sometime, but for now it sounds good enough for me.

Woody, if you're going to use 4 Rlps, you better get on something like at LEAST 1500 L box or somewhere right around 50ft3 tuned to 15hz. Hey that's only like 36x36x66 if you don't figure in the bracing/drivers/port... Yeah, you make sure to call me up to help you carry that up the stairs, lol.

:nuke:

[SteveCallas]

Yours is red, his is white, both using an EP2500. He stays more solid down low and gets up to 3db more output.

[boostick4]

Andy,
Yeh I could make that 36x36x66 box and then just live inside it :wtf: Then I'd be the only cool guy with a ported IB :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

Meanwhile back in reality.... I think your sub turned out great and you built the box as big as you could fit in the corner. As loud as it is I really don't think you're going to miss the 3dB that low any ways :spin:
I mean it's still better than anything you can buy at 5x the cost so....

I'm still thinking 4 Rl-p's in their own 6ft^3 sealed enclosures would be pretty badass. Two crossed at 50-60 Hz and the other two at around 30 Hz or where ever the other two start to fall off in the room. Eh, we'll see if they are still available around Thanksgiving or Christmas.

Anybody using these drivers in a large sealed configuration yet?

[ThomasW]

Anybody using these drivers in a large sealed configuration yet?

Lots of people using them in true IB subs, you can't get a much bigger sealed box than an IB... :T

[---k---]

Thomas,

What happens if I build an IB in my garage, then I open the door between my room and the garage? Ported IB or LLLLLLLLT???

(Actually a semi-serious question that I've always wanted to ask, but the time was never right.)

[ThomasW]

If you're talking about having the rearwave in the garage there are numerous IB that have been built that way.

[---k---]

Yeah, but what happens when you open the door (while the sub is in action) between the garage and the room. Did the IB just get a port? I'm guessing that the volume of the garage is huge compared to the door, so it won't matter. But how dependant is an IB on the back wave being seperated from the front?

[boostick4]

very

[SteveCallas]

The "port area" of the door is quite large and depth of the door opening is quite small. Assuming the rest of your garage is relatively air tight, this would seem to result in a very high tune and doesn't look too good. Wonder if it would actually pan out that way At least you wouldn't have any chuffing or compression :B

[Andy Shoppa]

haha i got bored the other day and came up with this after about 5 minutes:

http://www.realmofexcursion.com/videos/SoundSplinter/rlp15.12.wmv

:rofl:

Still haven't touched it as far as finishing it in any way, I think I'm just going to buy a gallon of paint and a roller and go to town. I see a pair of sonosubs in the future for these drivers, If I can find enough room for them.

But overall I am still very pleased with it.

Next up: a pair of NatP's 8)

[Dennis H]

I get a "box tune" of 9 Hz with an airtight 2000 cu.fu. garage and a 3' door. The bottom curve is an IB Tempest and the top one is opening the door. In the real world, room effects would swamp this effect. The open door might act as a bass trap and smooth out some room modes or it might make things worse.

[---k---]

Interesting.

[RandyMidd]

Next up: a pair of NatP's

There's a new kit for sale in The Pawn Shop section of this forum.