floorplan advice

[tom314159]

This seems like a good place to discuss this, especially since I don't quite know how to categorize it. My wife and I are starting on a major remodel of our house, and although we've done some work, we are still in the planning stages for most of it. I'd like to do what I can in the remodel of the living/family room to make a good home theater, but I'm stuck on the first decision: where to put the display. I suppose that the experts here could ask me the right questions and give advice based on experience that will help me decide. (Sounds like some sort of therapy . . .)

Anyway, If this is a good place, I could post a simple sketch of the room as it is and describe what I think are some of the constraints.

Sound like a plan?

Tom

[David Meek]

Hi Tom, welcome to The Guide! :welcome:

You betcha, we'd be glad to help. We just got a new shipment of opinions in this morning and we need to move them out. Post the sketch and we'll get going. . . .

Some early questions to consider include:

1) What do you want to have as the focus for the room: family comfort with movies and music as a part of things, or breathtaking movie viewing, or truly awesome audio, or...?
2) What kind of display are you considering - plasma, DLP, LCD, front projection, etc?
3) Does the room have a lot of windows and/or ambient light?
4) Can you effectively close off any windows with opaque blinds or shades?
5) What kinds of flooring/walls/ceilings are you wanting/
6) Are you looking at a full surround system or a two (maybe three) channel system?
7) Do you want the speakers exposed/out in the room or in-the-wall?

All of these lead up to a biggie that we really can't help you with: Can I get what I want with my budget of _______ ?

But, we'll be glad to help with what we can. Ready? :yeah:

[tom314159]

more information

David and others,

I have attached (I think) the sketch.
Included are dimensions and two possible screen locations (among others)
Ceilings are constant 8' height.

1. This first question is a hard one! The room was recently enlarged by the removal of a room divider ( a double-wide fireplace that we never used). I will be a sort of great room, but we think that a dining area will be located at the top (as indicated by the table and chairs in the sketch). I'd like to go as far as practical in optimizing the "awesomness" of the video and audio experience. I have worked in audio before and some sorts of audio compromises bother me and surprisingly some don't. I like symmetry and good imaging. the viewing area will be for casual TV watching (e.g., moring news) as well as the best theatrical experience we can provide (problems with that?)

2. We certainly want a flat panel mounted on the wall. I'm leaning towards LCD as they catch up with plasma.

3. Yes, the windows and sliding-glass door are southerly-facing. Thanks to the shape of the house and to some trees, direct sunlight only enters the room in the morning, and then only at a steep angle. This is a factor in favor of LCD, or so I'm told.

4. We could close off windows with shades, but would probably not do so for casual viewing. The screen location "B" in the sketch has windows opposite it, so it could have lots of glare (advantage: LCD). But location "B" could benefit from wide viewing angle (advantage: plasma).

5. Walls and ceiling would be plaster, floors would be hardwood. My wife has an appreciation for good sound but is not as fanatical as I am. She has stated that some sound-absorbing panels would be acceptable if made part of an overall visual design.

6. I'm pretty sure that 5.1 is what I want. I could pre-wire for 7.1, but I'm not sure that the room is big enough to be dominated by speakers. I'm thinking of mid-sized speakers for the 5 channels (maybe 10-12 inch coaxials?) plus a sub.

7. speakers could be exposed. I could build them into the wall if necessary.
I like symmetry, and speaker placement was my original objection to screen location "A" in the sketch. I don't understand having left and right speakers right alongside the screen (depends on viewing distance?) but equally-spaced around location "A" puts one speaker in the middle of the hallway. The hallway has a lower ceiling, so maybe the speakers could be on the wall just below the 8' ceiling. This is not great, since it puts the speakers in a corner, but I could add some acoustical treatment for reflections and use EQ.

the biggie: Well, the two of us are the only occupants of the house, and we'll be here for a long while. We both enjoy home theater and CD listening and will appreciate the investment. We are interested in high performance but not necessarily the very high-end.

thanks,

tom

[Hdale85]

Hmmm looks like a difficult space as far as acoustics go Might need some treatments if your not happy when its all set and done.

I know this isn't the DIY forum but are you comfortable with a soldering iron at all? There are a few in wall designs that would probably work great. Here are a couple links.

http://htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=22626 This is an MTM you could use it for the mains and then use the MT's for surrounds and center duty if you wanted? Just some Idea's. You could use the MTM's across the entire front (all vertical) and then use the MT's for surrounds.

http://htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=22625 This is an MT design you could use it for all 5 positions.

These are just some suggestions. The crossover diagrams may look daunting but its really not bad. This would get you into the upper range of SQ I would say and save you tons of money as the crossover parts for the MTM's with drivers and everything is probably around 200-300 a pair I believe.

[David Meek]

Tom,

I like position B as it gives you a more uniform dispersal pattern for the sound from the mains. With some reasonably careful set-up you should get a soundstage that stretches way beyond the physical location of the mains, unless they are in-walls which tend to not throw nearly as large soundstage outside the speakers' location. Position A would have the right main in a corner and the left with an alcove to its outside and a hallway to its rear (or thereabouts anyway). That could pose some tricky imbalance issues.

If ultimate black-levels aren't a concern, LCD would be a better choice with the large window and door.

With a 14' depth (using B) and a somewhat similar width 5.1 will give you a very nice sonic experience. 7.1 would work but as you point out might be overkill.

[tom314159]

thanks

Thanks, David and Dougie!

Yes, for audio balance, screen position "B" is better. It helps to have that confirmed by an expert!

Suppose there is a larger group watching - it seems like position B has a smaller zone where viewing is acceptable due to viewing angle considerations. But Position B does give me the speaker placement options that I feel good about.

Question: I see a lot of pictures in which folks have placed left and right speakers almost adjacent to the screen. That seems like not much separation in terms of angle - or perhaps the viewing position is quite close?

Dougie, I was an electronics technician (in a recording studio!) for some years before becomming an electrical engineer. So I'm comfortable with the soldering pencil as well as the schematics. I'll check out the links. I note some intense speaker discussions here and will lurk for a while as I formulate my questions.

Question: What do you think of coaxial speakers (10-12 inch with compression tweeters)? Perhaps a lengthy discussion belongs in another forum, but as far as space concerns go, what about their directivity? Is it good or bad?

Thanks again for the help - I will keep watching for more suggestions and I hope to post the "winning" plan in the near future.

I noticed a thread on "pre-wire". Hope I can find it again. Any other suggestions?

Tom

[Hdale85]

Well there are other designs that are quite a bit better especially if your going to do a lot of music listening (although the Nat P's and Modula MT's are extremely good with music) they are more expensive and most of the designs over in that area aren't in wall But those are some very good in walls and would easily out perform anything you could probably get within reason as far as retail goes.

[tom314159]

question for David - Depth?

David,

Can you cite a link to more information about "soundstage"?
Or just give a brief definition.

thanks,

Tom

[Hdale85]

Well I can try and explain it Soundstage is like your speakers aren't making sound they are making a sound stage and you shouldn't be able to tell that the sound is coming from the speakers per say but where they would be at in the performance.....so the sound kind of blends together and puts you in the performance. In a properly designed setup you should be able to hear things like where the instruments are where the singer is and so forth.

[tom314159]

thanks

Thanks for the help.

We are going to "stabilize" our remodel for a few months, and get used to the new big space before we do much more. We will try putting our regular TV in both locations, and see how it feels for ease of use, traffic patterns, etc. That may impact our decision. But I'm hoping that the screen placement that allows for optimum audio works out, as I think that is important to me.

I'll be lurking for a while, reading the other floorplan thread. I'll be back with some more topics soon!

Tom

[dyazdani]

Funny, my soon to be sold house in Arkansas has nearly exactly the same layout and dimensions. I had my stuff in position 'A' - one difference though - my kitchen had a bar and was open to the living room where position 'B' is shown. Other issue was a fireplace opposite of 'B.'

I agree about the dispersion on 'B' being better. Sonic issues are created as previously mentioned with 'A.' I dealt with mine, used some room treatments and careful tweaking.