About ready to frame- Some final opinions from HTguide.

[bimmer528]

Hey all,

My bro in law and I posted a while back on building our theater and we got some great advice. (thanks basement jack!).

We are about to get started and I would like to inform you on what we are going to do. If you have anything to add or subtract, please post a reply.


The constants in the basement theater consist of 2 sided very think foundation fieldstone wall. The other two are other basement rooms. Our concern isn't to block noise out of the basement so much as it is above. Above is where we want the noise and vibration dead. The house is over 100 years old, boiler was ripped out and forced air was put in.

We were given advice on staggering the studs but we are not going to do it. Reason being, I am a carpenter by trade but only have some framing experience. I go about as advanced as a normal stud wall under 10 feet. This should get the job done since we are just building it as a normal room except for the ceiling and this is where the advice or last thoughts are needed.

We need to frame the ceiling a bit lower because of utilities we cant do anythying about.

So, you know what were doing in a nutshell, let me tell ya the important things we are doing to cut the sound and let me know your opinion.

-Vent's secured very tight to prevent vibration.
-Every new stud put up, nailed down AS WELL as liquid nailed to again reduce vibration.
-Were adding 2 top plates to make room for (2) 3/4'' sheetrock attatched to the ceiling. The first plate we are directly fastening to the joists. The second is our wall as we built it from the ground, then lifted to place. The house is a century old so were going to need to shimmy between the two plates because of unlevel floor.
-(1) 3/4' drywall for the wall's.
-each drywall screwed as well as glued to the studs.


Have I missed anything? Should I rethink something? Is it overboard O-o?

Thx guys

Bimmer



Btw-Jack, we would love to have ya help out on your off day. FUn activity worth some pay and a yummy 6 pack of blue moon

[Snap]

WOW lots of extra work. Glue as well as nails. Guess it would not hurt.

I did not see anything about insulation? If you can throw in some of that. (every wall would be cool even the roof) It will help with more than just the sound. Sounds like a it will be a good sounding place!

Have Fun!

[freon]

I just finished my room. I wasnt concerned with sound leaking into rest of basement and spent alot on finishing the ceiling to help stop vibration from going above...Let me tell you. Put as much sound deading into ALL the walls. Mine just travels right through the wall and into the unfinished ceilings in other rooms of basement...then right upstairs like I didnt want.

[DelRay]

What size is the room? I wasn't even aware that sheetrock came in a 3/4" size. That's a lot of weight. Are the floor joists 2x10. Alot of the older homes used 2x8 as floor joists.

[tubeman]

Just finished my HT. I was also concerned about sound traveling up.

Although I didn't stagger the studs, I insulated everywhere. I've got standard batting in the walls to R 24. In the ceiling, I used Roxul Safe and Sound. Not only does it have great sound deading properties, it's fireproof to 2000 deg. F. It's made from a by product from the steel making industry. It's only about $7.00 more a bat from the Home Depot and standard insulation. On top of that I had a dropped ceiling installed with acoustic tiles that were 3/4" think. This add's just a little more to help deaden the sound. It works well as when my contractor was in the basement during construction and running a table saw, I could not even hear it. It does however leak low frequency sounds when there's a lot of it and I've got the volume up. I'll try and post a picture shortly.

Gary

[Chris D]

Hi, Bimmer. Just finished (pretty much) my home theater project building my private movie theater in my house. You can follow my entire project in Home Theater Builder Magazine. (www.hometheaterbuilder.com) It looks like you've got it pretty much covered, and you talked about why you're not doing some standard things like staggered studs. I would recommend first that you put SOMETHING in the wall and ceiling cavities. If you can't afford something heavy and effective like Acoustiblok, then at least fiberglass batting everywhere--that's fairly cheap. I'd recommend double drywall on all walls and ceiling. (I did one layer 1/2", one layer 5/8")

Nothing you said sounds like overkill. It may sound like it to the general public, but everything you're doing is effective and will help. You can only do more!

[autio]

Well I definatly would re-think not going with double walls and double ceiling joists, I hate to say it but if you dont you are kind of wasting an opportunity to relatively inexpensivly sound proof. As for knowing how to do it ---Just build two walls exactly the same and put them about 1/2 inch apart you only have two walls so this should be fairly inexpensive. As for the ceiling build your inner walls 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch shorter than the lowest existing ceiling joist and run 2X6 ceiling joists in between your old floor joists. Finally insulate well and use this for glue http://www.audioalloy.com/green_glue.htm . We just did my bothers house like this because hel has an apartment upstairs and it worked great.

[Snap]

Chris & Autio,

Is glue really going to help that much? Is it worth the extra time to nail and glue is what I am asking? (or the extra cost if you are having to have the builder do it?) What happens if you just nail? If you do the double walls and the insulation on every wall as well, but no glue?

I totally get the wall stuff makes sense to me. Does the glue need to be for systems that are going to pack a punch? Or is it something that you need to do for any HT?

Thanks Guys.

Snap

[Snap]

One More Question

OH yeah one more question....is there building codes for certian insulation stuff? Or can you just have at it? (I know for new contruction there is. But what about home mods?)

There is a lot of sound boards that you can get from lots of different companies that are not toooo expensive.....but can you place them in the walls and they be up to code? (ie "safe")

Thanks guys.

[autio]

I have not used the glue that I posted a link too (I have to admit I got that link from this forum at one time , It was in my favorites--looked very promising not sure of cost though) But drywall glue (also screw) in general should be used in a home theater to try and keep your drywall seams looking pretty with all that vibration. The cost really should be minimal for ordinary drywall glue.

[Snap]

aaaahhhhh For the dry wall! OK cool! I thought you were wanting it done for everything! The link shows even the floors and joyces being glued! That would be one heck of a "change order"! But then again if you are dropping 30K into a HT why not another 5 to make sure everything that can be possibly done is done!

I am asking a custom home builder about the insulation stuff. I bet there are some strick rules about placing stuff inside the walls! I will post when I know some news from the contractor.

Thanks Autio!

[Chris D]

Oh, well, hate to burst your bubble, but yes, I did "glue and screw" EVERYTHING. That's the proper way to do it. The slightest shift of a jointor rattle, and wood sliding along a metal nail can give you a nasty squeek. So yes, I used glue on subflooring, wall studs, drywall, the stage, the riser, columns... EVERYTHING. Not a single rattle or squeek in the theater at any bass resonances or anything.

Glue's cheap, and only takes a few extra seconds per step. Just before you nail (or better yet screw) two studs together, just place a bead of construction adhesive along the joint. I mostly used Liquid Nails, maybe a total of 40 tubes or something. Even that many tubes only comes to like $75+

It's not a matter of more $$$, really, just attention to detail for proper construction.

[David Meek]

Absolutely! Glue and screw everything. Yes, it's more time consuming, but the cost is fairly minimal compared to the overall amount you're spending. And frankly, after all the time and effort, do you want a wall, floor or ceiling to rattle on you during a heavy-bass moment?

I didn't think so. :T

PS. Like Chris mentioned, "construction adhesive" is the best but you have to be careful when using it. It is a monster to remove from something it's not supposed to be on.

[Karp]

Where do you guys get the material you are putting on the walls? Is it expensive? How much per square yard?

I thought of using indoor/outdoor carpet on the walls. Good/Bad idea?

[Patt]

Indoor-outdoor carpet sure has a scratchy feel to it.

[David Meek]

If he doesn't see this thread and respond, you might want to send Andrew Pratt a PM about carpeting the walls. He did so in his room and wasn't too thrilled with the results.

[aud19]

If he doesn't see this thread and respond, you might want to send Andrew Pratt a PM about carpeting the walls. He did so in his room and wasn't too thrilled with the results.

He over-carpeted IMO though DO NOT do the entire wall or even all the way around for a portion of the walls height. You need to do the old fashioned mirror along the wall trick and place carpet, fabric, drapery etc or some sort of absorbtive material at the specific points where you first see the speaker in the mirror. If you can do the same with your ceiling even better. I'll assume the entire floor will already be carpeted otherwise the same applies there. Add a diffuse surface at the rear of the room and you should be pretty much set other than perhaps some bass traps.

[Snap]

bass traps are nice. not that much money either. :agree: don't carpet the walls.

[Rolyasm]

Don't carpet the walls?

So I posted a thread the other day about carpeting the walls, then I did a better, more patient search and found this thread. My original idea had been to carpet up three feet around the entire room. Sounds like it isn't a good idea. So the idea is to get a full lenght mirror and slide it along the wall until I see my speakers, which are in wall behind the screen? At this point I place some carpet there? Full wall, or partial? Also, is it just as simple to place drapes there? Also, when you say diffusion at the rear, what does that consist of? Odd angles and such?
Thanks,
Roly

[aud19]

You could probably get away with doing a ~6' high section in the middle of the height of the wall and yes anything absorbtive like carpet, curtains, tapestry etc will work and also possibly offer higher WAF. Full height is fine as well. Is there anyway of moving your screen for this exercise?

Yup, diffuse would be anything that will disipate sound without necessarily absorbing any. Bookshelf with odd sized books, purpose built diffuse panels etc. Whatever works for you with odd angles, different sshapes/depths etc.

[Rolyasm]

I am in the process of building my HT so the room ins't complete. Primer is going on this week for paint. I though I had this all under control. Ha. Always more to learn. So when you say 6' high in the middle ( I have 9' ceilings) are you saying bare walls three feet above and below the wall-carpet all the way around the room, except for the back, where I fortunately have build cabinets for equipment and storage? Thanks Aud.
Roly

[aud19]

Well no, that would give you a ceiling height of 12' if you did 3' top, 3' botton and 6' in the middle. 1.5' top and bottom should work but only do it in the spots where you see those reflection points, not all the way around the room or you'll end up with a "dead" sounding room

The cabinets at the back should work great though :T

[Rolyasm]

Ya, I'm retarded. 3+3+6= 9 right. ha. Sorry, long day. Thanks for the input.

[aud19]

No problem :T And don't forget those reflection points on the floor and ceiling as well. (If you're already carpeting the floor, that will take care of it )