Kevin's "Trouncer" PC Project

[Kevin P]

Alongside Trevor's new Silver Stealth PC, I'm also building a new high-performance PC. My nickname for it is the "Trevor Trouncer" :throwat: but I still need to come up with an official name for it. Maybe Silver Bullet, unless I think of something better.

I've ordered some of the parts, but thanks to cross-country ground shipping I won't have anything 'till later in the week. But since I know Trevor's going to try and trounce me in the performance deparatment with his seemingly unlimited funds, I figure there's no harm in posting what I'm planning to use.

Links are to newegg.com, though I only ordered some of the parts from them:
Case: Antec P160 Silver Aluminum Mid-Tower w/2 120mm fans



Motherboard: ASUS "A8V Deluxe Wi-Fi" K8T800 Pro Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket 939 CPU



CPU: AMD Socket 939 Athlon 64 3500+, 2.2 GHz, 512KB L2 Cache 64-bit Processor (note, I downgraded from the 3800+ to save some $ for the video card)



RAM: Corsair Value Select (Dual Pack) 184 Pin 1G(512MBx2) DDR PC-3200



CPU HSF: Thermaltake SilentTower 4 in 1 CPU Cooler with Heatpipe Cooling, Model CL-P0025



PSU: PC Power & Cooling Silencer 410 ATX

Hard Drives: (2) SAMSUNG 160GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model SP1614C



Optical Drive 1: Lite-On Black 52X32X52X16 Combo DVD/CD-RW Drive, Model SOHC-5232K



Optical Drive 2: Pioneer Black DVD+RW/-RW Drive, Model DVR-108



Video Card: ATI RADEON X800 PRO Video Card, 256MB GDDR3, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP

[JonMarsh]

Is that heatpipe cooler/fan as big as it looks? :E 8O



Gosh, you guys are giving me a serious case of PC envy, again.

Me, I'm just trying to upgrade on of my HTPC systems in an ATC micro-ATX case; just a lowly Gigabyte GA-K8VM800 mb (754 socket)



and a K8-3700 processor. Of course, though that's sort of "midrange" for an AMD setup, try to buy an Intel system anywhere with a comparable performing CPU. At any price.

OK, ok, I'm a bit too much of an AMD fan boy, I guess.


BTW, I've got a Compaq R3240US laptop coming in mid-week, Athlon 64 3200, the usual setup, 1280X800 wide screen, DVD-RW, 60GB HD, wireless 804.11G built in, USB2, nVidia to go wtih 64 MB, 512 MB Ram - after rebate price was $1,049.




Just call me a scum sucking bottom feeder. :B

A "happy" scum sucking bottom feeder. :rofl:


~Jon

[Kevin P]

Is that heatpipe cooler/fan as big as it looks? :E 8O

Probably bigger. I just hope it'll fit in my case! For reference, that's a 90mm fan on the cooler.

OK, ok, I'm a bit too much of an AMD fan boy, I guess.

This will be my first AMD box, ever. I was always an Intel boy in the past.

Just call me a scum sucking bottom feeder. :B

A "happy" scum sucking bottom feeder. :rofl:

One of the reasons I'm upgrading is because all the "scum sucking bottom feeder's" PCs are now several times faster than my current box (a P3/800).

Now I need to find a video card. I looked at the cards based on the nVidia 6800GT, but those suckers are over 300 bucks, some over 400. The 6800 Ultras are over $500! Ouch. I was hoping for maybe $100-120 for a video card. I guess I won't have the frame rates that Trevor will have... :roll: On the other hand, with all premium components so far, I probably shouldn't skimp on the video card... it's just that I've already blown close to $1k and I haven't even ordered the CPU or video card yet.

[Trevor Schell]

Kevin,,You are going to have an awesome system.:T

I skimped on the processor because of the price for the higher
end A64's. With the money I saved, I invested into a high
caliber video card.

For what you are putting into your system already , I would certainly consider investing into a higher end video card, as they are the most important part of the PC in my mind.

[aud19]

Kevin, what are you going to use the computer for? You're computer can test off the charts on all the benchmarks but if you don't need the framerates etc... just get what you need Save that additional money for better functionality for things you will actually use.

Jason

[JonMarsh]

Now I need to find a video card. I looked at the cards based on the nVidia 6800GT, but those suckers are over 300 bucks, some over 400. The 6800 Ultras are over $500! Ouch. I was hoping for maybe $100-120 for a video card. I guess I won't have the frame rates that Trevor will have... :roll: On the other hand, with all premium components so far, I probably shouldn't skimp on the video card... it's just that I've already blown close to $1k and I haven't even ordered the CPU or video card yet.

Well, that's something you can always upgrade later. I've really like the couple of 5700 Ultra's I've gotten; good all around performance; good enough on most games (for me, but then I haven't been playing much the last several months- last purchses were Max Payne 2, and Enemy Lock on.)

I got the 5700 partly becuase it's supposed to have good mpeg decode support for DVD and HDTV. I've gotten so picky about that lately, with the performance of my Zenith DVB318, that I'm actually trying stupid things like hacking Quadro drivers to get them to run on "standard" hardware, because of their better color precision. It can be done, but it isn't easy... time is my problem, these days.

Which is why I bought the Compaq laptop; so I've got something close to a serious desktop for CAD, CAE, and DTP stuff while I'm travelling, which will be a lot over the next six month... you DON'T want to see my calendar. I DON'T want to see my calendar!!!!

Good luck getting that bad boy all together and up and running. I was quite pleased with the upgrade I did on my main desktop, swapping out to a Gigabyte A64 nforce board; it runs very sweet, and is quite stable.

Happy Holiday weekend!

~Jon

[Bing Fung]

Awesome Platform Kevin :T, this thing should be tops in Seti and Super Pi number crunching. But unless you crown it with a top Vcard, Trev will Trounce in Doom and gaming benchmarks.

You could have almost squeezed in a 6800 GT video card for the price difference between a 3500 & 3800 64 chip, based on cdn pricing.. :scratchhead:

Don't stop short now buddy, you went all out on the slightly faster CPU, don't let the Vcard cripple you in this Space race. :B Rein Supreme! :crush:

[Kevin P]

Jason was asking what I'll be using the PC for. Well, other than the usual boring stuff (email, web surfing, Quicken) I'll be using it to convert my MiniDV videos (and possibly 8MM/VHS videos) over to DVD, and maybe "backing up" some of my DVD collection. So good performance for video capture/encoding is a Good Thing(tm). I'm not a gamer though, so top notch gaming performance isn't as important. The only reason I'd go high end is to trounce Trevor! :lol: But is it worth blowing $400-500 on a vidcard just for a benchmark number?

I haven't ordered the CPU yet, so I could back off to a 3500+ if the budget gets out of hand. I can always overclock a slower chip.

I wonder if the 6800 Ultras can be overclocked... if they can I could really trounce the Trev! :twisted:

[aud19]

The only reason I'd go high end is to trounce Trevor! :lol: But is it worth blowing $400-500 on a vidcard just for a benchmark number?

This is exactly my point. If you're not a hardcore gamer don't worry about it. Sure stomping all over Trev on gaming benchmarks would be fun but if you don't really need it then it's just a waste of money. Make sure you get a VC that will work well for you not some benchamarks that don't matter to you. It may not be the fastest but if it helps you to reproduce higher quality on whatever your working on, that's what matters.

EDIT: Sounds to me like you want something more adept at "HTPC-like" duties with better capture/encoding. So find out which cards will do that best and forget about game frame rates and benchmarks.

Jason

[Bing Fung]

Well, I suppose my point is he can back off the 3800 CPU, get a 3500 and for a few bucks more throw in a 6800 GT for a well balanced PC that is equal in Number crunching and Video performance.

Based on what I have read of the new 64 bit Windows OS, it is going to be very DIrect X dependant, thus requiring a person to get a very top notch Videocard just to be in the game.

Balance, it's all about that... No sense in buying a 3800/64 only to cripple it with a sub standard Vcard, when 3500/64 is in the same ball park for 1/2 the cost, allowing you to spend more on the Vcard.

And we are talking about a Trevor Trouncer are we not? :scratchhead: I'm just setting "Ma Man" up to have a fighting chance :tennis:

Capture performance in most "all in one" cards are sub standard at best. It's usually better to just get a separate capture card.

[aud19]

Capture performance in most "all in one" cards are sub standard at best. It's usually better to just get a separate capture card.

I disagree with a few of the things you said there but that comment I couldn't agree with more :yesnod: Kev if it was mine I'd be getting a good, seperate capture card and a decent (no need to be blazing) video card. As Bing mentioned if you need to drop the CPU down a bit to add to your video and capture card budget, you likely won't miss much perfomance

Jason

[Trevor Schell]

Kevin,,Going to the Newcastle 3500+ is going to give you a 2.2ghz speed VS the 2.4ghz of the 3800+
This will put you at the same speed of my XP 3200+...

You do want to play Doom3, so the high end card may be the right thng to do for you.

However, if you are planning on going slower, which it sounds like
you are leaning towards, then look for one of these..
Intel Pentium II


And for graphics cards look for this..
3DFX Voodoo2's in SLI


Or if that is a little too slow you can speed it up with this.
3DFX Voodoo5

[Shane Martin]

Kevin,
Like the others, I'd buy the 3500+ and then take the savings towards a better video card. The ones at the $120 range are going to be the 9600SE and it frankly sucks at framerates IMHO. For $200 you could go towards a 9800ATI Pro but that is last years stuff and it doesn't make sense. The video card you buy now if you pony up the dough will last you longer. My Geforce 3 is just now pretty much obselete and its going on 3 years old now. I would get either an ATI x800 pro or the Nvidia but I've pretty much moved away from Nvidia as they don't seem to offer much bang for the buck and they are always seemingly fudging their #'s. All of the guys at the lan parties I go to now are using ATI and they are stable(for once in a long time).

You could also consider dropping down below the 939 chipset and saving more money. 939 chipsets cost a premium now.

However, if you are planning on going slower, which it sounds like
you are leaning towards, then look for one of these..

I hope you are kidding with the pII and Nvidia suggestions. Then again and you might laugh, I have that exact setup in my 2ndary pc.

But is it worth blowing $400-500 on a vidcard just for a benchmark number?

As my friend found in benchmarking, doing a raid setup was MUCH more in terms of performance than buying a faster processor. My friend compared his exact setup except a slower processor and he was running raid, the other guy was running non raid and a faster processor(exact same video card), and the guy with the faster pc was getting TROUNCED.

Nvidia really is taking a beating now as far as video cards go. Their way behind and having to try to release a new card now to compete. FWIW, Microsofts xbox 2 has said its going to use ATI next go around. They used Nvidia previously. That says quite a bit..

[Kevin P]

Well, the video capture card can wait a while, as I don't need that right away. My MiniDV cam hooks up with Firewire so I'd only need the capture card for my older Hi8 tapes.

The next question is, ATI or nVidia? Assuming I go with a decent video card, which one is more stable? More bang for the buck? I need to decide by the end of the week, since I'll be placing my final order of parts then.

[Bing Fung]

I suppose it depends on which card you are looking at. As minimum I would not get anything slower than a Radeon 9600XT, so there is your bottom line choice. For the upper echlons I would go with the Nvidia 6800 GT, bang for buck its top of the class. Price no Object I would probably go for the Radeon X800 XT Platinum.

[Kevin P]

Ok, I've taken the plunge and ordered the big ticket parts for my Trouncer:

For the CPU, I decided to save $250 and get the A64 3500+ instead of the 3800+. 2.2 GHz instead of 2.4. I figure the loss is negligible for the $$$ I'm saving. I should still be able to trounce Trev in Super PI and SETI since the Athlon64 is more efficient at a given clock speed than the AthlonXP. Plus I may be able to OC it to the 3800+ speed.

Bing, I like your "price no object" video card choice. Since price is an object, but I found a good deal, I went one step down from your Radeon X800 XT Platinum and went for this:

ATI RADEON X800 PRO Video Card, 256MB GDDR3, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP



It may not trounce Trevor in gaming benchmarks, but it'll come close and it'll suit my needs with less heat and power consumption than the NVidia 6800 GT.

The parts I ordered last week should be arriving today and tomorrow, and the CPU and videocard should arrive early next week (I went for 2 day air shipping for these).

[aud19]

Nice card Kev :T

Jason

[Kevin P]

My first batch of parts arrived!

Clockwise from left: Motherboard, Arctic Silver 5, RAM, Hard Drives, Nero bundle pack, Windows XP Professional



2nd 120mm Case Fan (case hasn't arrived yet), DVD-ROM/CD-RW Combo Drive, DVD-/+RW Drive, SilentTower Heatpipe Cooler



Here's the Thermaltake SilentTower next to a CD, to get an idea of the size of it:


Once the case, PSU, CPU, and video card arrive, I can start putting together my Trevor Trouncer! :-y

[aud19]

So Kev, does that heat pipe vent directly out the back of the case?

Jason

[Kevin P]

So Kev, does that heat pipe vent directly out the back of the case?

I suppose with some creative ductwork it could be made to vent directly out.

Since the fan is on the side instead of on top like most HSFs, I'm hoping I can mount it so it blows front to back, matching the airflow within the case, to maximize cooling. I'm gonna be reading manuals tonight so I'll know how to put this thing together when the remaining parts arrive.

[Shane Martin]

I've read that Athlon 64's run HOT HOT HOT. I assume this heat pipe should significantly reduce that?

[Lex]

looks like a nice little starter PC with primative graphics. lol. Way to go Kev, let us know how your combination of parts works when done. I may clone it if it's really sweet.

Lex

[Kevin P]

I've read that Athlon 64's run HOT HOT HOT. I assume this heat pipe should significantly reduce that?

All 2+ Ghz processors need good cooling. The Silent Tower gets great reviews for cooling, the big problem with it is it's big and heavy. I might have to devise a support rig for it so it isn't torquing the motherboard.

looks like a nice little starter PC with primative graphics. lol.

Well, it's the best one can hope for when running Windoze XP. :lol:

I may clone it if it's really sweet.

Or just wait 6 months and then build something even faster for less $$$.

The case should be arriving today (though Heather won't be home most of the day so we'll see if Fedex reads the note I left). The power supply has an estimated delivery date of 9/11, but I doubt Fedex will deliver on a Saturday so I'll probably get that on Monday, along with the CPU and video card.

[aud19]

I thought the 64's actually ran cooler and more efficiently at the same speeds? I seem to remember the AMD representative at a dealer meet I went to explaining that the 64's actually reduce power when not under load to reduce power consumption and heat etc. I can't wait for MRAM to come out to further reduce power draws :P That's some amazing stuff that MRAM :yesnod:

Jason

[Kevin P]

Jason, yes they do, there's a driver called AMD Cool & Quiet, which reduces the CPU's voltage/clock speed when idle to reduce heat. Apparently the A64 runs cooler than an equivalently clocked AthlonXP, but of course cooling is still important, especially for overclocking.

[aud19]

Slighty off topic but... Anybody heard any further news/developement on MRAM by any chance?

Kev, if you truly want to run quiet and cool you may want to actually under, yes I said underclock your system. After the benchmarks anyways

Jason

[Kevin P]

Well, since I went with the 2.2Ghz instead of the 2.4Ghz CPU, that'll be cooler. And the ATI Radeon X800 Pro is relatively cool running. I hope to achieve "quiet" through the use of larger than normal fans. Hence the oversized CPU HSF and a case that takes 2 120mm fans.

The Asus MB has a feature called Q-Fan (or something like that) where it'll adjust the fan speeds based on the temps. So the fans will run slower when the system isn't too warm, and only speed up when I'm trying to beat Trevor at benchmarks.

[Kevin P]

The case arrived today! :-y









Here's a shot with the motherboard temporarily installed. I wanted to make sure the Silent Tower would fit ok. It does!

[aud19]

Nice :P I like the A/V etc connections on the top there

Jason

[Trevor Schell]

Kevin!!!
;x( ;x( ;x(

[Kevin P]

Lookee what the Fedex guy brung me! :B



We're almost there! P&V Day is Monday! (Processor & Video Card)

[Leef DaLucky]

Sweet!

Looking good.
Needs a window and a light in there, though.
The dremel is your friend!

:T
Mikey

[Kevin P]

Looking good.
Needs a window and a light in there, though.
The dremel is your friend!

I could have gone with the P-160WF case, which is the same case but with a window and LED rear fan. I figure though since the PC is going into a cabinet where only the front is visible, that a window and glowing innards would be a waste.

Besides, I figured I'd put the money into performance and quality rather than glowing lights.

[Kevin P]

Hey guys!! I'm posting this from my PHANTOM STALKER PC!!

I just ran a couple passes of Super PI just for the heck of it...

1 million digits: 0:43
4 million digits: 3:25

Temperatures are nice too... CPU: 30C idle, 38C while cranking Super PI. MB temp has been holding steady at around 25C.

Oh well, time for bed... hopefully I'll be able to play some more tomorrow!!

[Trevor Schell]

Very nice Kevin,,
That is super cool on the temps!!!
Well Done!!

[Kevin P]

My temps this AM, on a cool autumn NH morning (room temp about 66F):

Motherboard: 69F / 21C
CPU: 80F / 27C

Let me crank up SuperPI and see what the CPU goes up to...

Motherboard: 69F / 21C
CPU: 95F / 35C

Me thinks cooling is *not* this system's weakness... in fact, I may end up disconnecting the front case fan since it's louder than I had hoped, even after jacking down the speed using Q-Fan.

[aud19]

Good temps! :yesnod: I want one

Jason

[Kevin P]

Just ran 3DMark2001 on both my PCs (old and new)...

Old PC's score: 3289 ops:
New PC's score: 22570 :B :B :B :-y

[Trevor Schell]

Wow Kevin!!
That is one freaking awesome score!!:E
BTW,,Once you install direct x 9 , you can't run 3D mark 2001.
The new 3dMark2003 may work , but I will have to install it first.

22570 is pretty awesome though!!
You've got to like that ..:yesnod:

[JOY DIVISION]

Hey guys!! I'm posting this from my PHANTOM STALKER PC!!

I just ran a couple passes of Super PI just for the heck of it...

1 million digits: 0:43
4 million digits: 3:25

Temperatures are nice too... CPU: 30C idle, 38C while cranking Super PI. MB temp has been holding steady at around 25C.

Oh well, time for bed... hopefully I'll be able to play some more tomorrow!!

That's pretty good, I o'ced my proc a 2.8c @ 3.1, then increase the FSB at 210 and man the thing ran at 36C idle and hit 48C at full load, would that be normal at full load? I was playing COD and the damn thing was so loud that I had to underclock it again to normal.But when I ran 3dMark 03 it did hit 11,635 and I was only using a Radeon 9800XT and I thought that was pretty impressive to start with, I'm gonna wait aroud for prices to go down and see. I've never worked with Vapochill but I think that's the solution. Nice rig! :T

[JOY DIVISION]

Hey, I notice you got these at NewEggs, did they charge you taxes?

[Kevin P]

NH has no sales tax. Usually when you mail order, you are only charged tax if you order from a vendor who is based in the same state as you. So if you're in CA, you would have to pay CA sales tax when you order from Newegg.

I ordered the drives and RAM from Newegg, and got most of the rest of the pieces from Mwave.com (most stuff was cheaper there).

As for temps, I had the CPU up to 111F (44C) last night running Toast, but the room and case were warmer too. This morning it's holding around 41-42C with Toast running. I get 30C idle typically, but in NH late summer with no A/C the room temps can vary widely from day to day.

I also cleaned up the cable runs in the case. I took some pics but haven't had a chance to upload or post them yet. Probably this weekend.

NEXT ON MY LIST: Benchmarks. What ones should I run? So far, I've run:

SuperPI: 1 million digits: 0:43
3DMark2001: 22570

Any others I should run? Any good ones to test HD transfer speeds, RAM speed, stuff like that? I'll probably download 3DMark2003 this weekend.

[Kevin P]

Ok, I ran 3DMark03 and PCMark04:

3DMark03: 8658
PCMark04: 4378

[Kevin P]

Here's some more Trouncer construction pics:

Power Supply and Drives Mounted in Case



Front View with Drives Mounted



The Athlon64 3500+ and ATI Radeon X800 Pro pose alongside the Trouncer



CPU, HSF, and RAM are mounted on the motherboard



Motherboard is mounted in the case

[Kevin P]

Everything's hooked up for the initial tests (neatening up the wires comes later)



Wires are a lot neater now!



Here's a shot of the front of the case with the front bezel attached



Here's the front bezel again, taken without a flash, so the blue lights are visible
(You can also see the "bling! bling!" stickers I put on... an Athlon 64 and "Powered by ASUS"... you know every sticker adds on another 100 3DMark points!) :B