New HTPC (downsizing)

[Hdale85]

Ok so my previous HTPC was a few years old now, and honestly it's way more power then is really needed and it uses way too much electricity. So I've been wanting to downsize my HTPC for quite some time. I thought about going for a set top box route but the GUI's and what not just weren't what I wanted yet. I think the set top box approach has a bit of time still until it's really ready for my HT. So I decided to go with a lower powered HTPC that's still plenty capable of anything I'd need from my HTPC.

Here's my old HTPC build.

http://s24.photobucket.com/albums/c30/Dougie085/HTPC/

As you can see quite large, and unnecessary. So for the new build I looked at the Atom platform and the Fusion platform. Atom is a bit behind right now on technologies. The Fusion CPU is quite a bit more powerful and you get all of that and it only draws around 20 watts.

So the motherboard I settled on was this one

http://www.msi.com/product/mb/E350IA-E45.html

I thought about going with a Zotac fanless board that had wifi and all that, but really I don't need wifi and I was worried the heatsink might of been a bit too tall for the case I'm going with.

Memory is just some Micron 2gb DDR3 kit.

For my HDD I'm using a Super Talent USB 3 4GB stick. It's pretty quick and was only 7.50. Since the OS I'll be running is OpenELEC which loads the entire OS into memory on boot up. So I don't have to worry to much about write cycles. Even if it didn't do this though I don't think I'd have a problem running the OS from a flash drive as they are getting quite good these days with very long life spans.

The case I'm using is this one
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811321015

There was an issue with this case, It doesn't have an IR receiver. So I grabbed a USB HP MCE IR receiver from ebay and I'm going to find a way to mod it into the case so I don't have an external box.

I was planning to reuse the Blu-ray drive from my previous HTPC, but it seems to be broken. It will read DVD/CD but won't read Blu-rays anymore so I will be buying a new blu-ray drive shortly. I'd really like a slot load as it just looks better to me and is easier to use on the TV.


So as you can see I've really shrunk down my build! So far I have the motherboard, ram, flash drive and MCE receiver all in. The case arrives tomorrow. I will post up a couple build pics to show you how tight it is on the inside of the case, and how much smaller it is then my previous setup. I may also post a couple videos to show you just how capable a low power setup like this is.

[Hdale85]

Well some bad news, apparently the linux driver for the Fusion platform does not support HD audio currently. So I'm not sure what I'm going to do here...... I may just be running windows for now but that's not something I'm terribly excited about doing.

[impala454]

Just something to note, I've done an Atom build before in a tiny case and that sucker ran blazing hot, even with a fan.

Is your storage somewhere else? Or are you just streaming stuff off the internet?

[Hdale85]

I have a server on the network which is where all my storage is. I've had this thing running on my desktop and the heatsink isn't getting very warm at all. It says the cpu is running at 56c (apparently common for these) but the heatsink isn't very warm.

I may still just install OpenELEC as I would still have all the same features I had previously. Hopefully before long someone works out the HD-Audio issues in linux with the Fusion platform.

[impala454]

Have you run your HD video on it for a few hours? Maybe the newer Atoms are better but I know I was very disappointed with the one I had (it got delegated to parental computer duty). The performance was horrible and the exhaust was at blow dryer levels hot.

[Hdale85]

Well this is an AMD fusion platform, which uses an AMD E350 APU. It seems to be running pretty nicely so far and not getting very hot but I don't have the case until tomorrow.

[impala454]

Oh my bad, misread. Thought you said you got the Atom.

[Hdale85]

Yeah, performance on the Fusion stuff is supposed to be pretty nice (and it seems like it is) but apparently linux audio drivers don't support the HD-Audio stuff, so someone has to reverse engineer or AMD has to release them.

[Hdale85]

Ran into an interesting issue trying to install windows, apparently there are no compatible SATA drivers included in the Windows 7 CD, so I have to use a windows 7 image tool to incorporate custom drivers into the image.

[audioqueso]

Dougie, I actually sold my HTPC in December. I went down the same path as you did.

I went with the Asus E35M1-I Deluxe. http://usa.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD...E35M1I_DELUXE/
It's based on the AMD Fusion.
I removed the heatsink, and replaced the thermal paste with IC Diamond (I will swear by that stuff.. even compared to Artic Silver). I have a low speed fan that I configured with SpeedFan so that the fan only kicks in when it reaches a certain speed.
How does it play? Great! I run that thing all day playing movies, tv shows, 1080p. It's always cool to touch. Hardly ever gets hot.

At first, I did want to build a new system using a A-tech case. This one in particular http://atechfabrication.com/products...cro-Client.htm
However, this was before I even know what the AMD Fusion was. I did a lot of research, and decided to give it a try.
I tried three cases. One was the Antec ISK-310, the same Habey, and this one http://www.shop.perfecthometheater.c...TPC-ITX6-S.htm
I ended up with the Wesena one. They just came out with a RC6 protocol IR receiver. I am using my Microsoft Media Center remote to control J River with it.
I'm very pleased.

It is not a high power cpu, and therefore I removed all ripping duties from this htpc. I configured Windows 7 solely to play music and movies.

[audioqueso]

This is the IR receiver that I am talking about.

http://www.shop.perfecthometheater.com/IR-receiver-IR-receiver.htm

[audioqueso]

Ran into an interesting issue trying to install windows, apparently there are no compatible SATA drivers included in the Windows 7 CD, so I have to use a windows 7 image tool to incorporate custom drivers into the image.

Are you using Home Basic? Because as far as I know, only Home Basic (which is a watered down version) is the only version that does not have SATA support during installation. From Home Premium and forward, they all have native SATA support during installation.

[impala454]

Dougie upon quick look at that motherboard you have, there is an "F6 raid driver" for it in the downloads section.

[Hdale85]

It wasn't a raid issue, it was just the SATA driver. I used RT7Lite to modify the image and add in all the drivers for the board and it worked perfect. Apparently it's a common problem with newer chipsets and Windows 7? If I had a working CD-Rom drive I could of likely just put in the CD that came with the motherboard.

AudioQueso I'm using Windows 7 Ultimate as it's the only windows version I have lol.

I got the system up and running with windows but having a heck of a time getting it to keep the resolution I need for my TV. My TV only supports 1080i and windows is being kind of gay about keeping that resolution after I disconnect the second display.

[audioqueso]

Apparently it's a common problem with newer chipsets and Windows 7?

Is that a question or a statement? lol
To be honest, I have yet to come to any installation with Windows 7 (HB and up) that had that problem. With Vista, yes. With Home Basic, yes. I just never heard or it, nor ever experienced it with 7. That's not to say that it can't happen. I certainly did not experience that problem with my latest HTPC build, and I think both of our motherboards are just as new.

I got the system up and running with windows but having a heck of a time getting it to keep the resolution I need for my TV. My TV only supports 1080i and windows is being kind of gay about keeping that resolution after I disconnect the second display.

So try booting up with only the tv connected. Let Windows set that resolution as the primary.
Then connect the second display and set that as a secondary screen.

[Hdale85]

I've tried that, but windows doesn't set it as the primary resolution, if I boot it up with just the TV connected the TV shows nothing because the HTPC is not changing to the proper resolution. Even though I've set it several times.

[impala454]

Dougie the "raid" driver is for the whole controller, not just to set up a raid array. Glad it worked for you. I was going to suggest slipstreaming it into an install disc.

Also not sure what TV you have, but for some weird magical stupid reason, my Samsung DLP loves and displays 1920x1200 perfectly. No idea why. I would never have thought the TV would be built to display that resolution. I use the VGA input on it and it looks great. You might give that resolution a try just for giggles.

[audioqueso]

I've tried that, but windows doesn't set it as the primary resolution, if I boot it up with just the TV connected the TV shows nothing because the HTPC is not changing to the proper resolution. Even though I've set it several times.

With your old HTPC, you had it running on 1080i on the same tv, correct?
Do you remember the exact resolution that your last HTPC had set?
Is it the same as this new one? If not, it could be at that this particular integrated graphic card doesn't support that resolution.
If it's not the same resolution, then you know it's an odd resolution that the tv is kicking back as not-supported to the IGP.

[Hdale85]

I wasn't running windows on the old one. I know how to make it work in linux lol.

[Hdale85]

Chuck it's an old RPTV, it only supports 1080i pretty much lol.

[audioqueso]

I wasn't running windows on the old one. I know how to make it work in linux lol.

Ahh... so Windows fails us once again. lol

Then I would check the motherboard's supported resolutions.
Screen Resolution>Advanced Settings>List All Modes
If your tv's resolution listed there?
If it's not, see if MSI has a video driver update.

[Hdale85]

It supports the resolution because I can select it in windows no problem with another LCD connected and it works.

[audioqueso]

Hmm.. that is strange behavior. So that same resolution works with an LCD, but not with your tv, right?
And your tv does support that resolution, right?

I'd say drivers at this point. See if MSI has any update. And if you already have the latest video drivers from MSI, then I would say uninstall it, do a Windows Update, and let Windows Update find the best driver for you.

[Hdale85]

I can use a second display to change the resolution on my TV and it works.

[audioqueso]

Try going to Screen Resolution, and click on Show Desktop only on display 2 and Apply. If the screen remains on your tv, then you know that's the display you want to keep the desktop set to.

[Hdale85]

It works fine up until I restart, everything works fine after I set it up, but when I restart it's like it resets everything.

[audioqueso]

If you click on Show Desktop on Display 2 and click Apply, does the screen remain active on the tv with a confirmation box?
Or does it just black out for a few seconds, and then comes back on?

[Hdale85]

TV is actually display one, it stays on the TV, but then when I restart it's gone.

[audioqueso]

I've been trying to emulate your problem with two laptops. Both have Windows 7 I connected two separate monitors to each laptop's vga out. I configured the monitor to be primary, tried restarting the computer, and it does start up with the external monitor. I can't seem to replicate your problem.

The vga out that you are using is one your video card, correct? Not built into the motherboard, right?

[Hdale85]

It seems to be an issue with my HDFurry. Either way I just ordered a new projector and this TV setup will be going to the curb soon. It's just getting to hard to make it work with newer technologies.

I also ordered an ION based board as I want to be able to do HD-Audio via linux. I don't like running XBMC in windows at all! It's ugly lol. Maybe the HD-Audio will be fixed for the fusion setup eventually and I can move back to that.

[audioqueso]

Does the Fusion chipset not support HD-Audio?
Unfortunately, I do not have my HT with my here so I can't even test it out with my Fusion board to confirm if it works or not.

[PewterTA]

Did you see the first XBMC PC to be released...not to bad, I think the price is a little bit expensive...but it's a nice HTPC for someone that doesn't want the hassle of building.

http://xbmc.us/njbetzen/2012/06/17/zotac-the-first-major-manufacturer-to-ship-xbmc/

[Hdale85]

The fusion platform supports HD-Audio, the problem is the linux drivers don't have it included currently. With windows on the other hand it works fine, my problem is I hate running XBMC in windows it's just nowhere near as nice.

I did see that device actually I don't think the price is too much worse then a lot of the other pre-configured boxes.

[audioqueso]

...my problem is I hate running XBMC in windows it's just nowhere near as nice.

I've never seen XBMC on any machine. Does it run a lot smoother or something on Linux? (I only use J River since I only use my HTPC for music and videos)

[Hdale85]

It runs pretty smooth on windows now, but it's much better integrated and the remote functions and what not do work better in linux as well. Running OpenELEC over XBMC in windows it just a much much more streamlined experience. Having all sort of issues using my MCE remote in windows with XBMC because of all the Windows Media Center crap on it and so on.

[PewterTA]

One could always put XMBC on a flash drive and run it off any PC just to test how it works on their PC that way. Will be a bit slower booting...but nice easy way to not mess with your current PC and still testing out XBMC.

[Hdale85]

Well it's not so much about testing, lol.

[Hdale85]

Well there you go! Get the ION board (Asus AT5IONT-I) and pop it in. Install OpenELEC ION edition frodo build and then create a xorg.conf throw in my 1080i settings and whola works perfect. DTS-HD MA and TrueHD both work as well

[audioqueso]

Are you gonna get rid of the other motherboard and video card now?
I know the Asus AT5IONT-I are not the same Asus E35M1-I, but those little mini-itx boards that Asus builds are nice, huh?
Glad that system worked out for you.

[Hdale85]

Well I'm having some overheating issues with the ION board in this case. It seems to be an airspace/flow issue as when I remove the top it doesn't reboot from heat anymore, does still get warm though.

I really like these Wesena cases but I'm not sure they'd be any better on airflow.

Audioqueso, is the ITX6 and ITX7 bigger then the Habey was?

[Hdale85]

Nevermind it appears to have a fan in it! lol

[audioqueso]

Well I'm having some overheating issues with the ION board in this case. It seems to be an airspace/flow issue as when I remove the top it doesn't reboot from heat anymore, does still get warm though.

I really like these Wesena cases but I'm not sure they'd be any better on airflow.

Audioqueso, is the ITX6 and ITX7 bigger then the Habey was?

The Wesena is a slight bigger than the Habey.
I went with the Wesena because
1) I could fit a 3.5" HDD or two 2.5" HDD
2) Better airflow
3) Better build quality

Comparing the Antec, Wesena, and Habey, I found the Wesena had a better craftsmanship compared to the Habey. I found the Antec much better than both though. However, the Antec ISK310 is also longer than both cases.

Though our Asus boards are not the same, would you like me to take some temperature readings with my Wesena case and post them?

[impala454]

I'm interested to see how much power you can get and still go fanless... It just doesn't seem possible. I mean my dang phone starts getting hot when running video for a couple of hours.

[Hdale85]

Well if you're phone got as hot as these things you'd really feel it. But these don't go in your pocket. I believe the CPU can take up to like 100c before you're really in the danger zone. So they put off some good heat if you don't have the airflow to move it away.

Audioqueso I think I'm just going to go with the Silverstone LC05, I really love the way it looks and it's got plenty of space for air, and I can put in a low speed small fan to circulate it a bit better. It's only 99 bucks from Amazon and I'm a prime member so free shipping, on top of that 10 bucks off.

[audioqueso]

That's a nice case! Like something I would have been interested in.