HTPC Upgrade - Need Recommendations

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  • audioqueso
    Super Senior Member
    • Nov 2004
    • 1930

    HTPC Upgrade - Need Recommendations

    Ok, I'm gonna bite the bullet and upgrade my HTPC (this is why I don't like desktops). My current specs:

    Windows XP
    CPU: Intel P4 2.6Ghz
    Motherboard: MSI PM8M-V
    Chipset: VIA P4M800 Chipset
    Memory: 1GB DDR400
    Video Card: Geforce 7600GS AGP
    Sound Card: RME-9632
    Harddrive: 1TB Western Digital Black
    DVD/CD Burner: Lite-On 20x DVD Burner
    PSU: Enermax 400 Watts PSU
    FrontEnd: MediaPortal

    I mainly use it for music. It plays videos up to 720p just fine.
    I want to be able to play 1080p MKV files. That's the only new thing I want. Don't care for playing blu-ray disks, PS3 takes care of that. It's just sometimes I download 1080p files to check out a movie, and I want to be able to play them without messing around with the PS3. Just download, and play.

    What upgrades do I need to be able to do this?
    Video card, cpu, ram, motherboard? Not really in a budget, but I just want to know what do I need to upgrade to be able to pull this off. Thanks in advance.
    B&W 804S/Velodyne SPL-1000R/Anthem MRX720
  • Hdale85
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Jan 2006
    • 16075

    #2
    You could just get a Geforce 8xxx series or newer and use something like Media Player Classic to enable hardware acceleration. If you do this you wouldn't really need any other upgrades, although another gb of ram wouldn't hurt.

    Comment

    • sikoniko
      Super Senior Member
      • Aug 2003
      • 2299

      #3
      are you looking to do the bare minimum or a pc upgrade? you won't get very far with AGP these days... there are a few options still, but not as good as PCI-X16...
      I'm just sittin here watchin the wheels go round and round...

      Comment

      • Hdale85
        Moderator Emeritus
        • Jan 2006
        • 16075

        #4
        Oh didn't realize he had AGP. Not sure you can even get an 8XXX series card for AGP. So, if you have to upgrade everything, if you are going the hardware acceleration route (which looks and performs amazingly) then just get a nice video card, I've got an 8600gt in my HTPC. You don't have to go crazy on the CPU this way and get like 2gb's of ram. That's basically what I have. I have an AMD64 X2 which even that's over kill for hardware acceleration. But anyways my setup is 64 x2, 2gb DDR2, 8600GT PCIE x16, MSI motherboard. My 8600GT has a header for SPDIF audio over HDMI so I hooked that into my onboard sound and send sound over HDMI. Works great! I only use about 8% cpu power with very high bitrate 1080p movies. And it looks fantastic much better then when I was software decoding. I'm running linux so I can do hardware acceleration in media center style apps like XBMC or what not which is what I run. In windows you have a lot fewer options for hardware acceleration pretty much the biggest one for MKV files is Media Player Classic.

        There are some using the newer Atom ION platform boards which have an Nvidia GPU onboard and an Atom 330 cpu (dual core) CPU isn't very fast but the onboard video card supports hardware acceleration. Most people are running linux with this setup but some I've seen run Windows and it works great. Just another option as they come with CPU video card and everything for like 200 bucks. One option even comes with the PSU all you need to add is hard drive and ram and OS.



        I'm going to do a couple smaller HTPC's based off this setup eventually. But as you can see has motherboard, cpu, psu, wireless card, and everything. Just needs HD, Memory, and OS and a case.

        Comment

        • audioqueso
          Super Senior Member
          • Nov 2004
          • 1930

          #5
          Originally posted by Dougie085
          You could just get a Geforce 8xxx series or newer and use something like Media Player Classic to enable hardware acceleration. If you do this you wouldn't really need any other upgrades, although another gb of ram wouldn't hurt.
          I can't. I already have the fastest AGP card available (I did try the ATI HD AGP series as well... didn't help)
          Sorry, I did forgot to mention. I don't have PCI-E. So JUST a video card (which would be nice)... isn't an option. I'm not really looking to redo my entire HTPC. I just want to upgrade it enough to be able to play 1080p files smoothly. My current specs can open a 1080p file, but it plays very choppy.

          So basically... it looks like I HAVE to upgrade my motherboard if I want any upgrade since the motherboard is limited my cpu and gpu options. So I'd like to know if upgrading mobo/cpu/ram is sufficient enough. But at the same time, it looks like not many current motherboards even support AGP. So I may be stuck with getting mobo/cpu/ram/gpu. lol Dang.. I may just have to do a full upgrade. ha ha

          I was looking maybe an Intel i3 350. I have an i7 on my laptop, love it. But maybe it's overkill on an HTPC that doesn't really play games or blu-ray disks, no??? Or is a Pentium Dual-Core sufficient? Anything that will do great for me needs is fine. I can't complain about a fast FSB though. I'll get faster downloads too.

          Video card, I prefer Nvidia. Lower end 200 series? Or is that overkill and should I go with a 9 series? Any recommendation is appreciated.

          Dougie, I use media portal now. Do you know if it supports hardware acceleration?
          B&W 804S/Velodyne SPL-1000R/Anthem MRX720

          Comment

          • audioqueso
            Super Senior Member
            • Nov 2004
            • 1930

            #6
            Update

            So even though a nice gpu upgrade is nice, it looks like a CPU upgrade is all I really need. How did I determine this? My work laptop is a Dell Latitude E6400. It has an Intel Core 2 Duo P8600 with 4GB ram and an integrated graphic processor that is much much weaker than my HTPC's current video card... all running on XP (same as my HTPC). Even with a weak integrated solution in the laptop, it plays all the 1080p perfectly smooth. I'm playing a 1080p DTS-MA 9GB file right now on that laptop with no problems.
            B&W 804S/Velodyne SPL-1000R/Anthem MRX720

            Comment

            • Hdale85
              Moderator Emeritus
              • Jan 2006
              • 16075

              #7
              Unfortunately Media Portal does not support hardware acceleration last I knew, I was using Media Portal before I went to Linux.

              If you do go the hardware acceleration path the CPU really doesn't matter much. Like I was saying even those Intel Atom CPU's can do it with hardware acceleration. The GTX200 series is certainly more then what's needed. I have a 9600GT in my HTPC and it handles everything I throw at it awesomely. The biggest 1080p file I have is 20gb's and I get about 8-10% CPU usage and it's completely smooth and honestly it looks better then software acceleration.

              Honestly you aren't going to get far without swapping your motherboard and CPU. Which also means the memory, there are some motherboards that have Nvidia video cards that support hardware acceleration. So you could get a board with on board video. Not sure if they will work as well as the 8XXX or 9XXX cards.

              Comment

              • audioqueso
                Super Senior Member
                • Nov 2004
                • 1930

                #8
                Originally posted by Dougie085
                Honestly you aren't going to get far without swapping your motherboard and CPU. Which also means the memory, there are some motherboards that have Nvidia video cards that support hardware acceleration. So you could get a board with on board video. Not sure if they will work as well as the 8XXX or 9XXX cards.
                The fastest cpu for this socket is a P4 3.4Ghz. Do you think I might be able to pull it off with just that? Not the same as the Core 2 Duo, but just a thought as it's only a $45 upgrade. :B

                One thing I'm gonna test out is drivers for the video card. My video is suppose to have "PureVideo" hardware acceleration. Shouldn't this be enough to allow me to play 1080p files? After you mentioned that MP doesn't support hardware acceleration, I started wondering if I ever even used the full benefit of this video card. Maybe it is sufficient enough, but I just didn't know cause I haven't been able to use the full features due to MP. Comments?

                If not, I'm thinking a Intel P8400 and Nvidia 9 series. Maybe?
                B&W 804S/Velodyne SPL-1000R/Anthem MRX720

                Comment

                • Hdale85
                  Moderator Emeritus
                  • Jan 2006
                  • 16075

                  #9
                  What os are you using? If you download media player classic and put the display mode in umm....crap can't remember now! I'll let you know when I had back up stairs.

                  Comment

                  • audioqueso
                    Super Senior Member
                    • Nov 2004
                    • 1930

                    #10
                    Windows XP
                    B&W 804S/Velodyne SPL-1000R/Anthem MRX720

                    Comment

                    • Hdale85
                      Moderator Emeritus
                      • Jan 2006
                      • 16075

                      #11
                      Ah well then it wouldn't matter, If you were running Vista or Windows 7 you could try out hardware acceleration within media player classic. I don't think the 7 series cards fully supported hardware acceleration. I think they might of done some low level acceleration. I think full hardware acceleration started in the 8XXX series cards.

                      Comment

                      • audioqueso
                        Super Senior Member
                        • Nov 2004
                        • 1930

                        #12
                        Ahhh, interesting. I did not know that. Well, I'll try some things out tonight, and if it doesn't work... then upgrade it is.
                        B&W 804S/Velodyne SPL-1000R/Anthem MRX720

                        Comment

                        • audioqueso
                          Super Senior Member
                          • Nov 2004
                          • 1930

                          #13
                          Well, I tried using the manufacturer's video drivers to see if I can get the 7600GS' hardware acceleration enabled (PureVideo), but it didn't work. One last possible test is to upgrade to Vista and see if I can take advantage of the hardware acceleration. That or just upgrade the HTPC and just load it with Window 7. (This is why I hate desktops. lol) It's a bit bothersome to do, but it's an option. What do you think?
                          B&W 804S/Velodyne SPL-1000R/Anthem MRX720

                          Comment

                          • PewterTA
                            Moderator
                            • Nov 2004
                            • 2901

                            #14
                            I'd go for windows 7, you won't turn back afterwards. It might enable it through the use of DirectX 10 then (since isn't not available for XP). Definitely worth a shot...plus you'll like Windows 7 a lot better I think.
                            Digital Audio makes me Happy.
                            -Dan

                            Comment

                            • audioqueso
                              Super Senior Member
                              • Nov 2004
                              • 1930

                              #15
                              Originally posted by PewterTA
                              I'd go for windows 7, you won't turn back afterwards. It might enable it through the use of DirectX 10 then (since isn't not available for XP). Definitely worth a shot...plus you'll like Windows 7 a lot better I think.
                              Sorry, I guess I didn't phrase that correctly. Yes, I know Windows 7. I have it on my laptop, and love it.
                              But on my HTPC, I can't install Windows 7 on my HTPC. I have the 64-bit version, and my HTPC only has 1GB ram.

                              So... in the meantime, I was saying whether I should:

                              1) Install Vista 32-bit on my HTPC, just to test if my video card's hardware acceleration will kick in (based on what Dougie said). If it does, and it works, and having hardware acceleration allows me to play 1080p files smoothly, then I don't really have to upgrade anything else.

                              or..

                              2) Based on my specs, I probably still won't be able to play 1080p files smoothly, so it's recommended to just upgrade the hardware and install Windows 7.
                              B&W 804S/Velodyne SPL-1000R/Anthem MRX720

                              Comment

                              • knguyen429
                                Member
                                • Feb 2010
                                • 37

                                #16
                                Originally posted by Dougie085
                                Unfortunately Media Portal does not support hardware acceleration last I knew, I was using Media Portal before I went to Linux.
                                MediaPortal will hardware accelerate with their newest version. I'm using MediaPortal with MPC-HC and CoreAVC on a Zotac IONITX-A-U utilizing the onboard nVidia 9400M for gpu acceleration. Both the internal player and MPC can hardware accelerate with CoreAVC.

                                I've got 3 other htpcs, an Intel E2180 and an AMD x2 240, both can play 1080p mkv files without any dedicated graphics card. Last one is an AMD LE-1660, single core 2.8ghz, with a nVidia 9500gt which also plays 1080p just fine with CoreAVC and cuda acceleration.

                                audioqueso: You can try Vista and see if it works. I tried almost every microsoft OS to get gpu acceleration on my onboard nVidia 6050 to no avail, but some people online have had success with 6 and 7-series gpu acceleration. Try out CoreAVC with cuda acceleration and DXVA hardware acceleration.

                                You stated that you mainly listen to music, if you need simultaneous analog and digital audio, then your only option is to stick with XP. Vista and Windows 7 does not support it, you can only choose a single audio output type at a time. Of course you could switch between analog and digital, but some people, myself included, like to have both.

                                If you're looking for a new HTPC, I'd recommend any of the new mini-itx ION boards. Small, eco-friendly, and powerful enough to do what I need a htpc to do (play mkv and flac files). If you're looking for a regular desktop, I'd go for an AMD x2 240 or Intel E5300 and any motherboard with onboard 8200/9300 nVidia graphics. 2gb ddr2 ram and you can reuse everything else.

                                And yes, you don't have to ask, I'm a nVidia fan :B
                                - Kenneth Nguyen

                                Comment

                                • audioqueso
                                  Super Senior Member
                                  • Nov 2004
                                  • 1930

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by knguyen429
                                  MediaPortal will hardware accelerate with their newest version.
                                  I just downloaded RC1.1 last night. I'll play with it more tonight.

                                  Originally posted by knguyen429
                                  Both the internal player and MPC can hardware accelerate with CoreAVC.
                                  I'll give that a try.

                                  Originally posted by knguyen429
                                  Try out CoreAVC with cuda acceleration and DXVA hardware acceleration.
                                  I have CoreAVC, but the 7600GS does not use CUDA acceleration.

                                  Originally posted by knguyen429
                                  You stated that you mainly listen to music, if you need simultaneous analog and digital audio, then your only option is to stick with XP. Vista and Windows 7 does not support it.
                                  My soundcard does.

                                  Originally posted by knguyen429
                                  If you're looking for a new HTPC, I'd recommend any of the new mini-itx ION boards.
                                  I'm not, but thank you for the recommendation.

                                  Even though I downloaded RC1.1 last night, I did not try it with CoreAVC. I'll try enabling CUDA on CoreAVC with MP RC1.1.

                                  Thanks.
                                  B&W 804S/Velodyne SPL-1000R/Anthem MRX720

                                  Comment

                                  • audioqueso
                                    Super Senior Member
                                    • Nov 2004
                                    • 1930

                                    #18
                                    So... I tried it out, it seems that it CoreAVC + MP RC1.1 does to make hardware acceleration work. Sweet. However, it wasn't enough processing power. I tried disabling hw acc, check cpu usage. With hw acc on, it dropped down a bit while the studio opening started, but once the movie started, it would get choppy again. Granted, it is less choppy, but still not smooth enough to watch.

                                    I guess I'm buying new parts. :blink:
                                    B&W 804S/Velodyne SPL-1000R/Anthem MRX720

                                    Comment

                                    • knguyen429
                                      Member
                                      • Feb 2010
                                      • 37

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by audioqueso
                                      So... I tried it out, it seems that it CoreAVC + MP RC1.1 does to make hardware acceleration work. Sweet. However, it wasn't enough processing power. I tried disabling hw acc, check cpu usage. With hw acc on, it dropped down a bit while the studio opening started, but once the movie started, it would get choppy again. Granted, it is less choppy, but still not smooth enough to watch.
                                      Did you try DXVA acceleration with directx?

                                      Originally posted by audioqueso
                                      I guess I'm buying new parts. :blink:
                                      I gave up trying to get 1080p to play on any system running p4 w/ agp graphics along time ago. If you're on a budget and you don't need the processing speed, you could get away with a single core cpu/motherboard combo, 1gb ram, and 512mb nvidia 8400gs based graphics card.
                                      - Kenneth Nguyen

                                      Comment

                                      • audioqueso
                                        Super Senior Member
                                        • Nov 2004
                                        • 1930

                                        #20
                                        No, I did not try DXVA acceleration with directx. DXVA is not supported on the Geforce 7000 series. So I can't.

                                        In regards to the part upgrades. I don't really care about buying the parts... it's not a budget thing. It's just so.. bothersome. lol

                                        Originally posted by knguyen429
                                        ...you could get away with a single core cpu/motherboard combo, 1gb ram, and 512mb nvidia 8400gs based graphics card.
                                        7600GS is the faster Nvidia AGP card. 8400GS is PCI-E. I wish it was that easy. So... new cpu/mobo/ram/gpu. *sigh* lol
                                        B&W 804S/Velodyne SPL-1000R/Anthem MRX720

                                        Comment

                                        • knguyen429
                                          Member
                                          • Feb 2010
                                          • 37

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by audioqueso
                                          7600GS is the faster Nvidia AGP card. 8400GS is PCI-E. I wish it was that easy. So... new cpu/mobo/ram/gpu. *sigh* lol
                                          well then, happy hunting. let us know what you end up getting.
                                          - Kenneth Nguyen

                                          Comment

                                          • audioqueso
                                            Super Senior Member
                                            • Nov 2004
                                            • 1930

                                            #22
                                            Intel Core 2 Duo E8200
                                            Asus P5N7A-VM (Integrated Geforce 9300)
                                            2 x 2GB DDR2 ram (it'll run on Windows 7 64-bit)

                                            It all comes out to only $300. It's not bad at all. Specs look ok?
                                            I was looking at AVS' HTPC Building Guide thread. It list tons of recommendation and prices, and I was thinking: I could go for the i3 Core with DDR3 ram, but perhaps it's overkill for my use. I received a new laptop on New Year's. It's i7 Core, maxed out... I don't really need my HTPC to do anything... just play the files. If I need to edit, convert, whatever, I could just let my laptop do it. With that said... you think these parts will do just fine?

                                            Only reason I even considered the integrated solution was because the board seems to be appraised as a really good solution for HTPC... and that's all I'm using it for.
                                            B&W 804S/Velodyne SPL-1000R/Anthem MRX720

                                            Comment

                                            • PewterTA
                                              Moderator
                                              • Nov 2004
                                              • 2901

                                              #23
                                              That is enough for what you need. Maybe if you are going with Win7 64, maybe boost it to 4GB for good measures...but definitely not manditory.

                                              That'll play 1080p without any issue.
                                              Digital Audio makes me Happy.
                                              -Dan

                                              Comment

                                              • audioqueso
                                                Super Senior Member
                                                • Nov 2004
                                                • 1930

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by PewterTA
                                                That is enough for what you need. Maybe if you are going with Win7 64, maybe boost it to 4GB for good measures...but definitely not manditory.

                                                That'll play 1080p without any issue.
                                                I did say 4GB (2 x 2GB). Should that be enough?
                                                B&W 804S/Velodyne SPL-1000R/Anthem MRX720

                                                Comment

                                                • knguyen429
                                                  Member
                                                  • Feb 2010
                                                  • 37

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by audioqueso
                                                  I did say 4GB (2 x 2GB). Should that be enough?
                                                  plenty, i run 2gb on the e2180 with win7x64 without any issues. even the zotac ion runs 2gb on win7x64 with just a little bit of a lag. that e8200 might be a little overkill for what you want the htpc to do.
                                                  - Kenneth Nguyen

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Hdale85
                                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                                    • Jan 2006
                                                    • 16075

                                                    #26
                                                    4GB is plenty, my HTPC has 2gb of DDR2. Never misses a beat with any 1080p content.

                                                    Comment

                                                    • audioqueso
                                                      Super Senior Member
                                                      • Nov 2004
                                                      • 1930

                                                      #27
                                                      Thanks. I guess I'll go with that combo.
                                                      The reason I picked the E8200 was that I want the 1333FSB, and all the Intel's with a 1333 FSB cost pretty much the same. The E8200 comes out at $115. So do all the 6xxx 7xxx and 8xxx with a 1333 FSB.
                                                      B&W 804S/Velodyne SPL-1000R/Anthem MRX720

                                                      Comment

                                                      • looneybomber
                                                        Senior Member
                                                        • May 2007
                                                        • 194

                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by knguyen429
                                                        Try out CoreAVC with cuda acceleration and DXVA hardware acceleration.
                                                        What is this CoreAVC you talk about? I have an HTPC, that I noticed will not play a certain file with VLC player without it jumping. I can however play it with WMP10 or 11, whatever version I have.

                                                        It's an HD .WMV file at ~6GB/hr
                                                        I have another movie at about 6.5GB/hr that plays fine and is also an HD .WMV

                                                        I run dual screens, so I can constantly monitor stats while the movie is playing and noticed I never hit 100% usage on my CPU or GPU. If this works for audioqueso, this should work for me right?
                                                        -Win 7 home 64bit
                                                        -Phenom 9950 OC'ed to 2.8
                                                        -4GB DDR-8500
                                                        -Radeon 4870
                                                        -2, 1TB in RAID 0

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Hdale85
                                                          Moderator Emeritus
                                                          • Jan 2006
                                                          • 16075

                                                          #29
                                                          VLC player is really not all that great of a player. CoreAVC is a h.264 codec you can purchase. It's multi core compatible and also has CUDA support for harrdware acceleration. I would use something like Media Player Classic or Zoom player as they are tons better you just need either a codec or hardware acceleration.

                                                          Comment

                                                          • knguyen429
                                                            Member
                                                            • Feb 2010
                                                            • 37

                                                            #30
                                                            Like Dougie said, CoreAVC is just another codec. Some people will argue that it has superior picture quality. Personally, I just like the easy user interface and Cuda acceleration for nVidia graphic cards. For Win7, I use CoreAVC for h.264 files and Shark007 codecs for everything else. MPC-HC for the player, I've gotten so used to it, I won't try anything else.
                                                            - Kenneth Nguyen

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Hdale85
                                                              Moderator Emeritus
                                                              • Jan 2006
                                                              • 16075

                                                              #31
                                                              For a software decoder I haven't seen anything work better then CoreAVC as far as PQ is concerned. But hardware acceleration stomped it when I built my HTPC

                                                              Comment

                                                              • numberoneoppa
                                                                Senior Member
                                                                • Sep 2009
                                                                • 535

                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by audioqueso
                                                                Thanks. I guess I'll go with that combo.
                                                                The reason I picked the E8200 was that I want the 1333FSB, and all the Intel's with a 1333 FSB cost pretty much the same. The E8200 comes out at $115. So do all the 6xxx 7xxx and 8xxx with a 1333 FSB.
                                                                Oh no, am I too late? You seriously bought the last generation of CPU when you could have purchased a core i3 for the same price with an integrated graphics chip perfect for HTPCs?

                                                                And for the record, a lot of HD communities I belong to look down on CoreAVC if you don't have to use it. Apparently it's very fast because it cuts some corners here and there. It's not noticable on my screen, but perhaps it is on a large 1080p monitor. Who knows. Madshi's decoder is currently by far the best.
                                                                -Josh

                                                                That feeling when things are finally going right. Yeah, that one.

                                                                Comment

                                                                • audioqueso
                                                                  Super Senior Member
                                                                  • Nov 2004
                                                                  • 1930

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Yes, it is too late. Just FYI, the reason I did NOT buy the i3 core is because of the FSB and overall cost.

                                                                  I picked up an E8300 for $115. At first I was looking at E8400 or i3 Core 530, but after searching through forums and all for other people's HTPC, I found out that have similar HTPC duties as me, all realized anything E8xxx is overkill. So sheer speed of the E8xxx or Core i3 is not an issue. I knew I was ok with either one after reading so many similar comments. However, I wanted the FSB. I have two laptops, my personal laptop with a Core i7 and Windows 7, and my laptop for work has a P8600 with Windows XP. The Core i7 cpu is a superior cpu, the FSB is theoretically faster, but when it comes to downloading, the mobile P8600 (which on a laptop is slower than the desktop P8200) + 1333Mhz FSB downloads only marginally slower.

                                                                  Then I looked at cooling. I picked the E8xxx series because it can run on a lower TDP. And lastly, the motherboard I found was really a great value. I picked one up in Japan for $80. The Core i3 motherboards are still pricer. And when I really thought about it, the price difference meant nothing to me because I really did not gain anything that I could take advantage of. My HTPC playback only. I don't need power for ripping or encoding or anything like that. Just decode and play.

                                                                  I tried building my HTPC last night, and found out my heatsink doesn't fit because of 1mm. lol (Scythe Samurai ZZ and Scythe Kabuto)

                                                                  However Numberoneoppa, I appreciate the advise.
                                                                  B&W 804S/Velodyne SPL-1000R/Anthem MRX720

                                                                  Comment

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