DLP PJ's

[Andrew Pratt]

Guys I was wondering if anyone knew anything about the JVC Cineline 150 CL DLP and how it compares to the Marantz DLP projector. An installer friend is looking at using one of these for a project but is having problems finding reviews on the JVC.

[Brandon B]

The 150CL is not a DLP projector. It is a D-ILA, JVC's proprietary name for reflective LCD (similar to Hitachi's LCOS and Sony's upcoming SXRD).

The 150 CL is largely similar to the G15 and G10 models, except that it has been calibrated and tweaked extensively at the factory to allow it to be taken out of the box and used for accurate presentation of films (it's intended use is screening rooms at studios, broadcasters etc.). This is the reason for th price premium over it's brethren.

The advantages of DILA over DLP (1 chip anyway) are better fill factor (less grid), better color and a smoother image. There is no rainbow or dithering to worry about either.

It's contrast is lower than DLP. It runs hotter and noisier due to xenon lamp and required high volume fan.

There are not a lot of published reviews of this machine and one of tha main one's is of an earlier version of the model and is incorrect in several points with resspect to the current model.

If your friend really wants to read a lot of feedback about the unit, he should check out the over $5K PJ forum at AVS. At least a dozen owners there, and lots of info.

BB

[Digital Bob]

Andrew,

If you haven't had a chance to check out the brand new Yamaha dpx-1000 then you are missing out on a treat. I don't "gush" often, but I have to tell you this thing is AMAZING. It is nothing like their first model at all. Here are a few highlights that might interest you...

New Mustang DLP chip
TRUE 5x color wheel with 6 segments (buh-bye rainbows!!!!!!!!!!!!)
2700:1 Contrast Ratio in Cinema mode
The quitest operation of any DLP projector on the market (@28db) because a new fan, muffled (from the motorcyle division) and soundproofing on the case.
DCDI processing
DVI w/ HDCP
and lots more.

This thing is a killer unit. I don't think Yamaha has shipped it to retailers yet, but it's due out in the next 30 days or so if I recall.

Check it out, you won't be sorry.




dB

[pjenkins]

any idea on the MSRP on this?

[George Bellefontaine]

I thought I read somewhere it was going to msrp for $13,000 or so. That would be around $20,000 CDN, so it is way out of my league.




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[pjenkins]

given my HS10 order @ 2200, way out of my league too

[George Bellefontaine]

Paul, good to see you hanging out here at The Guide. I am probably going to upgrade from my VPL400Q to the HS 10 if Sony clears up the lamp problem in future units off the production line.

BTW, I have paid a couple of visits to the HS 10 site where you are a moderator. Could turn out to be a popular site for HS 10 owners in the future.




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[Digital Bob]

Hi Pjenkins,

If I recall correctly, it was supposed be $11.5k target price. Not cheap, but Yamaha wasn't aiming at price point here; they quite deliberately were aiming at redefining the upper limit of consumer DLP fpj performance. The picture is simply stunning, trust me. And for you tweakers... the menus are -SCAREY- in how much control you have over the picture parameters.

BTW - for those of us with more sense than money, Yamaha intro'd the LPX500. It's the baby brother of the DLP and it's out right now at select retailers. It's about half the price and it's a performance/value giant slayer. It is LCD, which at first worried me. But when you see it on say a 100-120" Stewart FireHawk..... oh my. *swoons* 6k Projectors aren't supposed to look that good.

Enjoy,




dB

[pjenkins]

George, thanks, nice to be here. Just to be clear, there is no "lamp problem" to clear up. Most HS10s are fine from what people are reporting (such as projectorcentral.com). I do hope hs10.com turns into as good a site as the BigPicture site was for the 400. I like the YABB interface/forum better than the BigPicture site, and I get to moderate and post what I want

Digital Bob, I actually demo'd the Yamaha 500 LCD against the Sony HS10. The HS10 has the better picture, IMO. And it is 1/2 the cost of the 500!!

[Chris D]

pJenkins:

I think that's interesting that you got to compare the Yamaha and Sony and felt the Sony was a better picture. Especially since the Sony is the (much) cheaper model as you pointed out.

I'm curious where you were able to get your Sony from. Was it CDW where everybody seems to have been getting the best deals from?




CHRIS
Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"

[George Bellefontaine]

Paul, you say no lamp problem ? What the heck are all those people over at AVS Forum ( 20 something pages) talking about? Now even those who said thery were having no problems are now having problems. In most cases they are sending their PJs to Sony for a lamp replacement.

Out of curiosity, how many hours do you have on your PJ ? Most of the problems seem to be occuring at the 100 hrs or better mark.




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[Digital Bob]

Hi PJenkins,

The great thing about this hobby is that there is no one "best" for everyone. Everyone likes something a bit different, or at least certain aspects of different products.

I am a bit curious though if you got to see both the Sony and the Yamaha in a fair test. Were they on the same screen, because we know how much difference that makes. Were they both set up to their fullest, since the Yamaha is less "right out of the box" than the Sony. And finally (and most importantly) were they in the same identical black room. This last one is key because the Yamaha is quite clearly aimed at NOT being a data projector and so it focuses on black level over total light output.

As you know, the Sony puts out about 50% more light (800 vs 1200 ansi if I recall correctly) and so it will likely do better in an enviroment where light control is compromised. Conversely, the Yamaha has a MUCH better black level (partially because it doesnt have to try and block all of that extra light) and looks best in real theatre room that is very dark.

Both are great products for sure, and the price on the Sony is quite attractive. It makes many people I know want to love it even more. It's hard to fault a product that is that good for that kind of money. But my experience has been that when you see each of them at their best, the Yamaha comes away looking more like the real thing.

Hope this helps,




dB

[pjenkins]

I'm curious where you were able to get your Sony from

I have an order in with CDW for $2135, but found one in stock at Brandsmart USA for $2400, so I went with that. Probably going to cancel the CDW order tomorrow, thought I might sell it and make a few dollars and get someone a good deal, but don't know now...

Paul, you say no lamp problem

correct. There are some projectors with lamp issues, but a small % if you believe projectorcentral.com and even the person collecting data at AVS. And the fix is a new bulb, so easy fix for those that have the issue...

Out of curiosity, how many hours do you have on your PJ

I get it Friday, so 0

The great thing about this hobby is that there is no one "best" for everyone

you have that right! the "best" for me this time around was limited in price (<$3000). Previously, I had a NEC XG85 so whatever I puchase will be less PQ wise ..

am a bit curious though if you got to see both the Sony and the Yamaha in a fair test

same store, same DVDs, closely sized picture. Yamaha was actually set up better, IMO, because the screen size was smaller (92") versus the HS10 (100"). HS10 had better brightness, contrast and very close black levels (cinema filter on the HS10). I was very unimpressed with the Yamaha for the price. Now, that said, it very well could have been inproperly calibrated, the store claimed both were calibrated, but you never know... So, I disagree with your statement about the Yamaha having MUCH better blacks from what I've seen.

But my experience has been that when you see each of them at their best, the Yamaha comes away looking more like the real thing.

And my experience is the opposite, and I would choose the HS10 over the Yamaha even if the Yamaha were the same price, so that's another data point for people...

[George Bellefontaine]

Paul, you make the hs 10 sopund like the real thing. Keep us informed with your results after you get your new PJ.

The lamp problem isn't a big deal, but the Sony here in Canada is twice the US price and they only offer 1 year warranty. I had a 3 yr warranty on the Sony VPL400 and needed it, believe me. So with a one year warranty, and if the lamp problem only occurs after a 100 or more hours ( one guy had his start at 400 hrs) I could end up having to buy a replacement lamp because I only put about 300 hours a year on a PJ. I considered buying US at about $4500 CDN, but the warranty/border hassles are just not worth it. Still, I haven't ruled out the HS 10, but as a guy who has experienced the SONY PROBLEM THING, I am cautious about buying that brand again.




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[pjenkins]

George, very fair point, which is why I purchased my HS10 with my American Express, which gives an extra year warranty on the projector

Bulbs for the HS10 are also much cheaper than previous generation Sony projectors, including the 400Q (which I used to own). 400Q bulbs were $350-450. HS10 bulbs are $200-250.

And, as an added bonus, the HS10 bulb does not dim as quickly as the 400Q

[George Bellefontaine]

Good to see the lower bulb prices, Paul. Keep us informed on your PJ after you get it up and running and tweaked.




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[Chris D]

pjenkins, I just sent you an E-mail about the HS-10




CHRIS
Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"

[pjenkins]

pjenkins, I just sent you an E-mail about the HS-10

you did? hmm... did I respond?

if not, send me another, i was at worked swamped and ran through my personal email quickly today, I may have accidentally delete, paul@jenkinstechnology.com