alternatives

[sirbogey]

with my Optoma dying on me 2 days ago, after a rather nightmarish experience over the last 4 years, including 6 successful repairs and one failure, I'm on the hunt for alternatives. :roll:

CRT projector was suggested. Can you share with me your experiences regarding those heavier/high duty projectors? :drool:

[George Bellefontaine]

Pretty much anyone here, including myself, who have or currently own crt projectors are into the technology. In other words, they are high maintenance and unless you can afford a tech to come and reconverge the red, green and blue tubes every few months, you will have to do this yourself.

I loved crt but have gone beyond the technology. I have owned several projectors and only the Sony VPL400 gave me any trouble. Most gave me 4 to 5 years usage before I upgraded, so I feel pretty comfortable with lamp projectors.
I currently own an NEC HT1000 dlp projector ( going on 4 years now and still working great) and a Yamaha LPX510 lcd projector which is only a year old, but hasn't caused me any trouble.

If you decide to go crt, and I certainly wouldn't try to talk you out of it, I'd just suggest you consider whether or not you will be comfortable doing things yourself, or whether you can afford to have a tech set it up for you and touch it up every 6 months or so. If you can go either way, the picture you will see on a good crt PJ is absolutely astounding.

[sirbogey]

the PJs you are mentioning.. what price class are they in? Are they all around $10K? or could I buy a used one from one of you guys for much less. I'd rather not buy it through ebay...

[dyazdani]

You can get used ones, I'd say in the $2-3k range for a nice model, I'm not an expert on CRTs. You do have to be careful and understand what condition the tubes are in and so forth as they are a little spendy to replace.

I just bought a PJ and thought about a CRT at first. I decided that I could not live with the weight (over 100lbs) or the things George mentioned (paying for a tech, possible CRT replacement, etc). I ended up buying a Sanyo Z4 LCD projector and am very happy with it. For the price (~$1700) and hassle free setup, I will not look back.

I've only had it about 2 months, but it hasn't given me any problems and I use it several hours a day at the moment. XBox 360 :T

[KeithM]

I'd look at the z4 or ae900. I got the ae900 for about 1400 when the rebate comes back and the z4 has a free bulb and screen(which you could sell) for around 1600 now (and you get a free bulb ~$300). The ae900 comes with a 40-rental blockbuster card so they're both about even on price.

[draganm]

In other words, they are high maintenance and unless you can afford a tech to come and reconverge the red, green and blue tubes every few months, you will have to do this yourself.

I'm going to disagree with George on this point (if that's OK) :W AFAIK, he used to own an older Zenith Electrostatic focusing set before going LCD/DLP. Those Zenith 800/900's were great in their day, but comparing their analog chassis and trim pots to todays modern digitaly controled electromagnetic focusing chassis is like comparing a Ford Pinto to an Acura.
However all the rest is true, the 8 + 9" tubed CRT's that almost all CRT guys run today range from 165 pounds (for the Marquee I linked to in your other thread) up to 250 pounds for a mighty Sony G90. :E they are also far from simple, you need to have a decent head on your shoulders. Anyone who is freaked out by the menu on their DVD player should avoid CRT.
However, there is a very good reason a lot of us are going through the trouble to install a big beast like this, namely price/peformance ratio, no bulb replacement, and excellent reliability(assuming new or re-furbished machine). New is not an option for most people, a Marquee 8500 from VDC Florida is $16k. Used is very affordable, buy from a seller who rebuilds them or hobbyist who can gaurantee good condition.
If someone is really terrified of convergence touch-up every 6 months, some CRT's come with an optional Acon camera which does it for you in 2 minutes. Just Push, CONV, ACON, FULL, ENTER, it's really that easy. The best thing you can do is go look at one locally, here's a referal list with one guy in Huddersfield (don't know if that's close to you?) You might really like what you see or you might decide it's not for me.
http://www.curtpalme.com/ReferralList_Europe.htm

[draganm]

the PJs you are mentioning.. what price class are they in? Are they all around $10K? or could I buy a used one from one of you guys for much less. I'd rather not buy it through ebay...

check yor PM box, prolly full by now. :P

[George Bellefontaine]

Draganm is right, I used to own an analog Zenith and it indeed was high maintenance but I loved the picture it gave at the time. It was my first intro to front projection. As far as the easiness of maintenance he refers to to the newer crt PJs, well I really can't comment. I can only say my son was tech who used to install some of those monsters, and even though he used a special service setup remote, he often told me horror stories.

[Azeke]

Another vote for LCDs: Bang for the buck AE900U (which I currently own) or Sanyo Z4. The AE 900U has a softer picture due to its smooth screen technology, which minimizes/eliminates SDE. The Z4 has a sharper picture, better lens shift, automatic slide shutter, also it is easier to clean dust blobs on the Z4. I really enjoy the AE900, and received the $400.00 rebate and a $300.00 blockbuster card.

You can't go wrong with either projector.

These are <$2K. Just my pennies worth.

Peace and blessings,

Azeke

[sirbogey]

Guys, many thanks for your feedback! curtpalme.com rules and is very detailed. I'll spend couple more weekends reading myself into it. I'm not afraid of adjusting the CRTs every 6 months myself, although I got no clue so far how do to this. The weight seems to be a slight concern though, since I spent the last 10y moving from one continent to another, back and forth. When I remember correctly, that's why I chose a lightweight ie. Otpoma 6.4lbs! If I get my hands on a used CRT, ie if somebody offers me something decent, I'm probably gonna go for it. And $2-3K is not that bad.

[sirbogey]

check yor PM box, prolly full by now. :P

I wish.. :P

[sirbogey]

KeithM and Azeke,

The Z4 and AE900 have awesome contrast of 7000:1 (my Optoma has 600:1). But can you guys make a case for LCD vs DLP please..? I thought the DLP chip was the thing to go, or at least that's what I was told back then..

I got a screen mounted on my wall and that's 4:3 in size. I watch the Sky = UK's TV in 4:3 and tend to switch to 16:9 every time the shows, games, movies are shown in 16:9... The Z4 and AE900 and 16:9, but do 4:3; I guess I'd have to upgrade/switch to a new 16:9 screnn..

[draganm]

If I get my hands on a used CRT, ie if somebody offers me something decent, I'm probably gonna go for it. And $2-3K is not that bad.

With the HT market as depressed as it is, especially over the summer, you can get a popular entry level CRT, like a refurbed Marquee 8500 or Barco 808, delivered to the UK inlcuding freight for under $2K. The thing to really watch out for is import duties and VAT (value added tax). I have seen posts from EU members who bought a used CRT and got stuck with $500. in government fee's.
It's one reason why CRT's are not common in Europe, many folks (like me) just don't like handing over a big wad of hard earned cash to the Guv. Of course you have free health-care over there so that might take some of the sting out of it.
I can only imagine what Gino paid to import that Blendzilla system to Australia? 8O

[aud19]

The Z4 and AE900 have awesome contrast of 7000:1 (my Optoma has 600:1). But can you guys make a case for LCD vs DLP please..? I thought the DLP chip was the thing to go, or at least that's what I was told back then..

No colour wheels for one and at a price/PQ comparison you can't get much better than a good LCD unit (there are bad ones too) IMO.

[sirbogey]

I'd look at the z4 or ae900. I got the ae900 for about 1400 when the rebate comes back and the z4 has a free bulb and screen(which you could sell) for around 1600 now (and you get a free bulb ~$300). The ae900 comes with a 40-rental blockbuster card so they're both about even on price.

where you find such a deal? on the net?

[dyazdani]

No colour wheels for one and at a price/PQ comparison you can't get much better than a good LCD unit (there are bad ones too) IMO.

I agree, I have seen several DLP sets/PJs. They look good, but I feel that I can absolutely see the effect of the color wheel.

I like the LCD picture and haven't had an issue with SDE with my particular configuration.

[dyazdani]

where you find such a deal? on the net?

The deal as far as the rebates is from the manufacturer, provided you buy from an authorized seller (I think).

I got mine (as did Doug/Lex) from B&H Photo. I also checked out The Projector People, but B&H had a slightly better price on the Z4.

I'm not sure what other options you might have in the UK.

[Dean McManis]

I have to say that if you are looking for low maintenance reliability in a front projector, CRTs are NOT the way to go over digital projectors.

CRT projectors usually cost a relative fortune when they were new, and the biggest reasons why they are affordable today are because they are generally big, heavy, loud, have a steep learning curve to setup and produce an optimal picture, and they cost a fortune to repair if something goes wrong.

Buying a used CRT projector can be a good opportunity for someone who is technically proficient with electronics, and likes to tweak things to make them perfect.
It's certainly possible that you could buy a used projector and get a warranty, and that it would run flawlessly for years without any problems at all.

But that's taking far more of a risk than it is buying a new digital projector for the same price.

I had a rear projection CRT TV that broke down 4 times under warranty and once out of warranty. The problems were mostly related to a design flaw (probably like your Optima) and as mentioned mostly covered by the manufacturer, but if I had bought the TV used without a warranty I would have spend more than twice what the set cost to repair it over the years.

Similarly, my first electrohome CRT front projector had minor board problems (which cost $2200 to repair) and luckily it was covered under warranty. And I also owned 2 other CRT FPTVs that gave me no problems to speak of.

After 4 years of use I did have some problems with one of my digital projectors, but my other 7 digital projectors (3 D-ILA, 2 DLP, and 2 LCD) have operated flawlessly for all of the time that I owned them, with no real maintenance other than having some of them calibrated and filter cleaning and occasional bulb replacement.

Put another way, I have never really worried about any of my digital projectors costing me a lot of money for replacement or repair, which has been a combination of good personal experience and the fact that I usually upgrade them every 2-5 years.
With CRT FPTVs I worried that I'd get burn-in on the tubes or fry a pricey board, especially with the Sony model that I owned with it's $$$ 9" CRT tubes. In the end, I was careful and it wasn't a problem. But in contrast the worst that I worry about now is a bulb going bad and it costing me a couple hundred dollars.

It's unfortunate that you had such problems with your digital projector, but you can do some research on more reliable models. And after 4 years you can likely find a replacement unit that is better and one that will probably provide a great quality picture and reliable service for years to come for somewhere between $800 and $1800.

[Spanky Ham]

A couple of points. CRTs are getting so cheap that some are buying back ups. A burned tube 8" pj is going for next to nothing these days. I have a full compliment of boards for my NEC XG. I also disagree about the constant playing with them. I set my XG up five months ago and have hardly messed with it. A good mechanical set up will take care of a lot of electronic drift.

That being said about how much I like CRTs, I still say one should wait till Cedia. I went to Infocomm and believe that TI's new Dynamic black will satisfy 95% of the on/off contrast camp(much to the chagrin of the CRT community). This should be out next year and with the new 1080p LCDs should make for an exciting year in digital. CRTs hold the price/performance crown for now, but its grasp is slipping.

[sirbogey]

I think I'll go for the AE900 for the time being, because of the short throw option. Unfortunately, Panasonic carries only a one year warranty for this pj. Based on my experiences that's little bit scary. I'll buy it in the US, 'cause I'm going to see a friend in Toronto in a month.

As far as CRTs are concerned, I'm thinking of getting one next year after I've moved (hopefully for the last time).