ae700 or ae900

[setite]

thats the question. I am either 2 days or 2 weeks from buying an ae700... but reading reviews of the CR of the ae900... i'm wondering if i should wait an extra two weeks to get teh money for an ae900.... i plan on using it for movies, pc and xbox360 gaming, and possible OTA/CABLE HDTV... but mostly games.... what are your opinions

[wildfire99]

Do you see rainbows on DLPs? If not, I bet you can do better than LCD.

Personally I would wait, it always eats at me a year and a half later when I don't like the performance of the PJ, that I didn't wait 2 weeks.

[setite]

i haven't looked into DLP much.. im under the impression that the color is lacking.. i dont need uber black levels.. just acceptable...

for the record the biggest thing i need is the 2.0:1 zoom.... so if there is a DLP under 2grand street with that zoom i would look into it...

EDIT: actually i think i can get the 120-140 i want with the 1.2x zoom at 16 feet... since i have never considered dlp because of the stickers.. do you know any under 2k

[George Bellefontaine]

The 900 is so close to being released that you may as well wait. There will be some improvements in the 900 but I'm not sure whether the price will be the same as the 700. I'd check that out if I were you. As for any DLPs under $2K with that Panny zoom, forget it. But there may be something with the 1.2 zoom. Look at the dlp projectors at Projector Central then check out their calculator to see if the screensize you want fits any of the listed throw ratios.

[talannar]

There is a pretty good reveiw of both models over at Audioholics website. Their consensus is that the 900 is the better model over the 700, but YMMV.

[Bent]

I've seen the '900 in action on a small screen (56" diag).
I couldn't detect SD or VB at all. Even a foot away...

[setite]

yea the ae900 is out now... im trying to figure out a way to pull the money together so that i can have it by nov 22nd... problem is that i have the money now for a ae700... and i would need to spend about 750 more for now to get a ae900 as the prices are 1550 and 2200 respectively... technically its 550 when you consider the 200 dollar rebate... my only issue is that its a miracle that i pulled together the funds for an ae700... im real bad saving... thing is that i could just hold what i have now... and have enough in two weeks... but im gonna end up chipping away at the money i have so far if i dont find a way to make it so i cant access it im really starting to wish the ae900 wasnt out yet because im most likely gonna kick myself later if i get the cheaper model...

[Paul H]

im most likely gonna kick myself later if i get the cheaper model...

My 2 cents - If you think that, then you're right - and you will kick yourself later. Hold off.

Paul

[setite]

gahhhh... i was hoping someone would talk me out of it... im honestly stuck now...

http://www.ausmedia.com.au/panasonic_ae700_vs_ae900_review.htm

that review makes me think the CR is better.. but almost not justifiable... im wondering if in my case i should look at the "total picture" in regards to using the difference from ae700 to ae900 on a better screen... or what not... i think i may kick myself.. but then again the price is, even with rebate... 33% more than the ae700... this is also my first plunge into hdtv... so it's not like im a seasoned veteran who is gonna be nitpicking... im so confused!

EDIT: after rereading that review im gonna stick with ae700... my eyesight is not even that great... since i lost my glasses... i function fine... just a little iffy with streetsigns at night... i think it will be better overall to save the 550 and pick up a carada screen or something... thanks to all of you for your swift comments and feedback.. as for kicking myself... i think imma be in too much awe from my first projector to be kicking myself hard :P

[Brandon B]

The 700 is a decent little projector, especially at a discount.

Unless you buy it and then avoid ALL forum reading about projectors from then on, you will want something better even if you bought the 900.

I am a firm believer in getting good value in the short term and start saving for something better some time down the road.

And there is a DLP in your price range, the InFocus 4805, but is it lower resolution than the Panny. Colors, however, are not a weakness of present day HT DLP, that goes back to when they all had white segments in the color wheel to achieve brightness.

BB

[setite]

yea that pocket rocket 4805.. its tempting but i sort of got the idea in my head that i should settle for no less than true 720p

[Jurgen]

Do you see rainbows on DLPs? If not, I bet you can do better than LCD.

Personally I would wait, it always eats at me a year and a half later when I don't like the performance of the PJ, that I didn't wait 2 weeks.

Not to start a typical DLP vs LCD discussion here, but the general consensus seems to be that the new generation of LCD projectors (ie AE900 and z4) have made great strides and are no longer considered the second best alternative for DLP.
Take a look for instance at www.projectorcentral.com. There is a comparison between DLP and LCD (benq pe7700 vs ae900 and the z4 against Optoma h79dc3). The results can be called surprising (if not downright revolutionary)
Reviews such as these are of course not convincing for everyone(and rightfully so), but this just goes to show that we have entered a new domain were former rules do not necessarily apply.

My take on this: I think this is good news for everybody because it will certainly mean that both technologies are getting better and better.
I always had to choose LCD because I can't tolerate RBE. I could however always acknowledge that the image of DLP, generally, was better(and I have seen many). I now upgraded to a Panny ae900 and for me it's no longer a case of: "not bad for LCD". The image can hold it's own and I'm deeply impressed. I am anxiously awaiting the new generation of projectors (disregarding technology), but this pj will keep me satisfied in the meantime.

regards,
Jurgen.

[setite]

well put.. yea im sure many people havent seen how the ae900 stacked against the 7700... which is an older model but the point is the same.. LCD is closing in on the cons

[Brandon B]

If you aren't in a BIG rush, some important LCD developments will probably appear in shipping units in something like 6 months (I know, we've ALL heard this song before), but seriously, both Sony and Epson have new technology LCD panels which address a lot of issues, Sony's Bi:Na panels, and Epson's C2Fine, which will have very major contrast improvements, full 1080x1920 in $5K price range units, and both appear to be immune to the polarizer degradation bugaboo due to a new inorganic LC makeup.

So, while it is certainly true that "something" better is always around the corner, in this instance and for LCD in particular, it's a bigger-than-usual, once every 5 years sort of something and maybe worth looking into.

BB

[wildfire99]

I would consider the Sony HS61 as a replacement for my own theater. Isn't the HS61 using the Bi:Na two-layer LCD stuff? The preliminary measurements taken on that looked neat. The 'new' LCDs seem to be pretty weak in the contrast department, with most people saying they are a small step up from the old gen (Z3/AE700), and pretty much everyone *except* Evan Powell liking DLP images better for contrast. I would not put a lot of faith in PJ-central's 'review'.

I read in a few places at the AE900's actual panel contrast is somewhere between 800-1000:1. That's not even as good as my HT1k which is what, 4 or 5 years old now? Yes, I do consider contrast to be important, color is 'good enough' IMO for most people now on DLP or LCD.

I still don't like DLP (rainbows, dithering, fatigue, but still worth it for contrast), and believe me, I was quite tempted to get an AE900. I wanted SO badly to defect to the LCD camp, but it was not to be. Soon, yes soon... we will have precious high-contrast SXRD. Preciousss....

(Seriously though, I wouldn't cry if someone gave me an AE900/Z4 as a gift. I'm sure it's pretty darn good for the money, just not good enough to compete with more expensive DLP units.)

The C2Fine stuff should be quite interesting, but by that time we'll be on DLP 1080p chips with variable irises too. If BenQ can make a 1080p version of their (much belated 6200:1) PE8720 for $5k, then LCD is again second-best, IMO.

The only reason I even jump in again is that I almost fell for the 'OMG LCD is better than DLP!' rush too. I spent weeks watching and looking for reviews, specs, measurements, and such. And I never did see anyone (except PJCentral) say the 900 was better than or equal to today's DLPs for contrast. Now people are saying the 900 isn't even a huge step up from the 700. Would anyone claim the 700 was a remarkable 'boundary-shattering' model?

[setite]

what is the real world CR of your projector though... i mean from what i read the ae700 claims 1000? or 1100... i forget.. vbut real world is 200-300... whereas the 900 claims 5500 but gets 800-1000 as you say.. the real world is always different.. also the real CR of the ae900 is like 750 vs the ae700s 500.. its the iris and all that hoopla that let them claim those higher ratings... i am currently posting from my new ae700 projected onto a 30 dollar homemade screen with some 2x3's from home depot and some blackout cloth from hancock fabrics... wow is all i can say.. im glad i didnt wait and get an ae900... i am truly happy with this.. and i wont be kicking myself.... well i kicked myself for putting myself through the confusion only thing is that i cant get website images to look as good as they should... but i expect that the culprit of that is either my settings... or the smooth screen technology...

[setite]

also i just found out how to fix the hdmi pixel cut off issue... at least i can with an htpc setup... i have an nvidia 6800gt...

right click somewhere on desktop... select properties
select the settings tab
click advanced
you should see a tab with your video cards name in it.. click it
select nView display settings..
click device settings..
on the dropdown list click hdtv overscan configuration.. if thats not present click treat digital display as an hdtv... now i havent booted to regular xp to confirm this.. but this may not be a feature in regular xp.. im on mce.... but im assuming that these settings are actually part of the driver console.. so the version shouldnt matter...

select underscan.. apply.. click yes... then click the overscan compensation button... fill up the verticle... and on the horizontal slide it till you get cutoff.. then dial it back once.. voila.. no more cutoff... i know this isnt new.... but i see some people living with the cutoff... i dont this we should have too...

[wildfire99]

The HT1k is measured at around 1300:1 with iris closed. It's spec'd at 3000:1. People get 2000:1+ with filters. All of these measurements are assuming calibration to D65. If you don't mind wacky colors and stuff, everything measures a lot higher.

I'm glad you're enjoying your setup. Even the picture from older LCD's like the AE300 was pretty enjoyable, and I wouldn't trade it for a tiny tube TV ever. I just like to nitpick. You can seriously call me obsessive-compulsive. All of that worry about measurements tends to fall away once the film gets going, though.

[Brandon B]

I have also heard the HS61 (which is alleged to use the same HS-51 name in USA, no model number change) will have the Bi:Na panels.

And I also would not bother with Evan Powell's review. His site is a good jumping in place for someone new to PJ's, and the online DB is great, but his reviews seem to be more and more out of touch with actual perfomance trends every year.

You are also right about 1080p DI DLP being imminent, and I was not recommending he wait a bit based on LCD passing DLP quality, but rather that LCD PJ's, which I think will still be signifiantly cheaper than DLPs even with "same ballpark" performance, are about to get a performance jump.

In other words, for under $5K we might see a 1080 LCD with 4000-5000:1 CR, while similar DLPs will be at least a couple $K more, IMO.

Real world CR usually seems to end up at 60-70% of their quoted amount after a thorough calibration. A few brands actually can be counted on to give the quoted number after calibrating, but these tend to be the expensive units, like the Marantz DLP, JVCs, or Sony SxRDs.

Also, if your room is not well light controlled (meaning internal reflectivity, not just good curtains), your negating most of the benefit from a good performance PJ.

BB

[George Bellefontaine]

I understand where Patrick is coming from. I, too, own an NEC HT1K. It is paired with a Yamaha LPX510 lcd projector in my HT. I switch back and forth now and then and it is always noticable how much better the NEC dlp is in the contrast and black level department. But I have to say that the Yamaha projects such a terrific picture it pretty much makes up for the lower contrast.

[Jurgen]

The 'new' LCDs seem to be pretty weak in the contrast department, with most people saying they are a small step up from the old gen (Z3/AE700), and pretty much everyone *except* Evan Powell liking DLP images better for contrast. I would not put a lot of faith in PJ-central's 'review'.

I read in a few places at the AE900's actual panel contrast is somewhere between 800-1000:1. That's not even as good as my HT1k which is what, 4 or 5 years old now? Yes, I do consider contrast to be important, color is 'good enough' IMO for most people now on DLP or LCD.

I still don't like DLP (rainbows, dithering, fatigue, but still worth it for contrast), and believe me, I was quite tempted to get an AE900. I wanted SO badly to defect to the LCD camp, but it was not to be. Soon, yes soon... we will have precious high-contrast SXRD. Preciousss....

(Seriously though, I wouldn't cry if someone gave me an AE900/Z4 as a gift. I'm sure it's pretty darn good for the money, just not good enough to compete with more expensive DLP units.)

The C2Fine stuff should be quite interesting, but by that time we'll be on DLP 1080p chips with variable irises too. If BenQ can make a 1080p version of their (much belated 6200:1) PE8720 for $5k, then LCD is again second-best, IMO.

The only reason I even jump in again is that I almost fell for the 'OMG LCD is better than DLP!' rush too. I spent weeks watching and looking for reviews, specs, measurements, and such. And I never did see anyone (except PJCentral) say the 900 was better than or equal to today's DLPs for contrast. Now people are saying the 900 isn't even a huge step up from the 700. Would anyone claim the 700 was a remarkable 'boundary-shattering' model?

Reading reviews, studying specs, anticipating pros and cons of up and coming techniques is not a bad way to spend time, but I would not make any (final) judgements about any pj before you have seen it firsthand.

If you want confirmation that the 900 is not much better than the 700, there are plenty of those statements around.
If you want confirmation that the 900 is on par with DC2 DLP pj's, those statements are also made in spades.
If you want confirmation that the 700, at the time, was a "boundary shattering model", some (reviews) actually claimed just that.
I wouldn’t know what to conclude out of all the contradicting reviews and opinions out there.

We can participate in forum discussions for a long time (which I like BTW :B )but in the end, you will have to judge it for your self.

[George Bellefontaine]

Oh, yeah, the eye of the beholder for sure.

[wildfire99]

I totally agree, Jurgen. There just needs to be a better way for people to be able to make those first-hand decisions. One of my dreams would be to have a chain of those kinds of HT audition centers, where someone who is fretting about dropping many dozens of benjamins on a 10lb piece of electronics can go and spend $100 or so and just check out a bunch of setups... DLP, LCD, D-ILA, with no hassle, no dealer preferences, and no-nonsense. Until that day, we're forced to resort to forum discussions.

But that's why I kind of always make the caveat now that anything is better than nothing. Even the AE700 would look pretty darn amazing to someone who had never done FP before. And it would still look pretty good to most people, period. I don't have a projector at all right now, and I tell you, the 450:1 LCD monitor just isn't cutting it. I would love to have even some nasty old Sony HS10 right now.

But that's me, really, and perhaps a lot of us. We like the tech almost as much (or more than) the actual images, because once you have a nice image and things are set up, why else bother with specs and equipment and tweaking?

[setite]

I really agree with the latter part of your statement wildfire. I have just began tweaking the picture and am almost mad that I did. I have found that I want more shadow detail, and I know that tweaking a few settings and getting a higher gain screen will grant me this. But I am already wanting a new screen... gah! Also anything is better than nothing, so so true. I have went from a 27" crt sdtv to a something between 100-110(my screen is a wee bit crooked so im losing screen real estate) 720p native tv... which even makes my crappy FTA material look good... I may not be much of an expert.... but the scaling on this projector makes me very proud to say I own a Panasonic AE700.

[Jurgen]

And I really agree with the first part of your statement :B :T

Regards,
Jurgen

[George Bellefontaine]

Patrick

What happened to your HT1K ? You mentioned you don't have a projector now.

[wildfire99]

The bulb died and I haven't been able to find one in stock anywhere* for a month and a half or more.

(*That is, someone with a return policy. I'm not sure if it's the bulb or the ballast. NEC tech support thinks it's the bulb, and I'm inclined to believe it, however I want to be able to return the bulb if I put it in and it still doesn't light. Given that NEC recently discontinued the HT1100, I'm worrying that they simply aren't making parts for it anymore. My bulb only had a couple hundred hours on it, but it sat around for a few years.)