I want my SED!!

[aud19]

I thought I would start this SED thread so that people could add info to as it became available and / or ask questions about this awesome new technology on the horizon :P

Here's some links and pics that are of interest:

SED and HD-DVD news

http://www.eetimes.com/at/lae/news/OEG20031205S0034

http://www.eet.com/sys/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleId=47205034

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,118836,pg,1,RSS,RSS,00.asp

http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/index.php/id;986006331;fp;2;fpid;1

http://www.guidetohometheater.com/news/101804ceatec/

http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20041227_094933.html

http://www.monitor4u.com/english/new...div=New%20Tech

http://news.com.com/Carbon+TVs+to+ed...l?tag=nefd.top

http://www.canon.com/technology/detail/device/sed_display/

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/index.cfm?go=news.view&news=4428

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000150026155/

Technical Paper

A PQ comparison of PDP vs. SED vs. LCD. Left : PDP Middle : SED Right : LCD

[JonMarsh]

Yes, this is probably the ONLY technology that could ever get me to retire my NEC-9PG+.

There are some digital projectors which do enough things very well that their shortcoming in black level can be overlooked most of the time. But I haven't got $30K for a Qualia...

And the DLP's which I could afford don't have the resolution- at the screen size and distance I like to watch, I can see pixels easily on 1280X720 displays.

I'm very curious to see how this plays out. If the responsible companies do a good job of getting this off the ground, Plasma's and LCD's should be dead within 6-10 years. That is, unless the MP3 generation just doesn't care about display quality, and there is some cost disadvantage. But looking at the display technology, and considering it can work in a very analog manner, and given what has been shown in public demonstrations with low light program material, the kind of stuff the CE companies stay away from when demoing their Plasma's and LCD's, this should be a SLAM DUNK.

~Jon

[aud19]

Yes, if all goes well, by the time I'm due to replace our current set in 4-5 years, SED should be well on it's way both in developement and low costs. :B

I'm hoping for a nice 65" set or so for somewhere around $3k :P

[aud19]

Thanks Doug

[aud19]

From the From the Consumer Technology Retail Week (CTRW) newsletter:

Toshiba announced it would have SED (Surface Conduction Electron-Emitter Display) displays in Q1 2006. Toshiba demonstrated a 36-inch, 720p SED display at CES, but said its goal is to come out of the gate with a 50-inch 1080p panel in Q1 2006 and price it competitively to a similarly sized plasma or LCD display.

Toshiba developed SED with Canon, and the SED technology along with HD DVD will be a lynchpin to Toshiba's strategy going forward.

Toshiba claims SED delivers better blacks than plasma or LCD and can offer and faster response times that will eliminate high-motion artifacts. The latter appeared especially true on Toshiba's demo unit at CES.

[Steve Goff]

SED appear to be the next exciting display technology, but DLP is making great strides, at least in rear projector displays. At CES Samsung and others were showing a new variant of the TI wobulation chipset with very high contrast (Samsung claimed a not to be beleived 10,000 to 1) and few if any of the artifacts from last year's stuff. Although these DLP chips do not have 1920x1080 pixels, the wobulation mirror permits a full, addressable 1920x1080 display with nearly complete fill factor.

[aud19]

Here's another link:

http://neasia.nikkeibp.com.hk/neasia/000003

SED panels are entering the TV market. SED image quality is attracting considerable interest; meanwhile, Canon and Toshiba are confident about their cost competitiveness...

[David Meek]

Toshiba demonstrated a 36-inch, 720p SED display at CES, but said its goal is to come out of the gate with a 50-inch 1080p panel in Q1 2006 and price it competitively to a similarly sized plasma or LCD display.

Oh my. A 50" 1080p display at that price point? 8O Okay, you've my antennae twitching now....

[aud19]

Oh my. A 50" 1080p display at that price point? 8O Okay, you've my antennae twitching now....

I can't wait to see these things! :B

[JonMarsh]

Oh my. A 50" 1080p display at that price point? 8O Okay, you've my antennae twitching now....

Yeah, and it's NOT Plasma or LCD, but something that will look (we expect) like a good old fashioned CRT, but thin and svelte like those new fangled displays.

~Jon

[David Meek]

Jon, what about burn-in? Is this technology immune/resistant/vulnerable?

[aud19]

Jon, what about burn-in? Is this technology immune/resistant/vulnerable?

Being that it's still phospor based, (like plasma and CRT based sets), burn-in is still something to be aware of. But as I'm sure you know, with a properly calibrated display and not leaving static images on it for lengthly periods of time should cause no problems just like plasma's/CRT's.

[BlazeMaster]

isn't SED also suppose to be quite a bit slimmer than a comparable sized plasma? I remember seeing 4cm. somewhere...
Imagine one of those SEDs displaying a 1920x1080 image with a HD DVD content and uncompressed 13.1 sound!!! I believe by the time that hits consumer market, the commercial theaters will have to pay me to visit their theaters...The commercial side has alot of catching up to do....

[caero]

are these technologies coming to the PC consumer market as well?

I know that I could really use a 21" flat panel that was as good or better than a CRT for photo editing and gfx work

[aud19]

are these technologies coming to the PC consumer market as well?

I know that I could really use a 21" flat panel that was as good or better than a CRT for photo editing and gfx work

Don't expect SED panels below 42" for a long time if ever. I suspect that the smaller SED panels will need to be 720p as well due to the size of the hardware required to make each pixel. Still a 42" SED panel sounds like a pretty good monitor to me!! :B

[spirited]

Panasonic

Has anybody heard anything good about the flat CRTs from Panasonic that are HDTV compatible. I think they are reasonably priced compared to LCD or Plasma, and from what I've heard last alot longer.

Does anyone have first hand knowledge.

[BlazeMaster]

But they will still have the size limitations and I'd doubt it's anywhere near PDP's slimness.

[Brandon B]

Plasma is being abandoned by a few large players. Sony is completely discontinuing production. JVC is switching marketing emphasis to other techs. Toshiba is dropping PDP in favor of SED, and Fujitsu is selling their stake in their operation to partner Hitachi as well. I think it will be a lot smaller part of the market in a rather few years. Not a reason not to buy one, though.

BB

[Patt]

Very good news indeed........now I don't have to lust over plasma any longer.

............................................. :rollhead: ............................................

[aud19]

More SED and other future FP technology info:

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages/bettersan.htm

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages/strangesan.htm

[aud19]

Latest update and some good news!

http://toob.typepad.com/content/2005..._start_vo.html

We're not there yet but it's looking more promising! :yesnod:

[Patt]

TOOB has an excellent article, looking forward to this technology for sure.

[aud19]

A couple more articles:

http://www.forbes.com/infoimaging/feeds/infoimaging/2005/06/21/infoimagingcahners_2005_06_21_eng-cahners_eng-cahners_092319_1557203246241339353.html

http://neasia.nikkeibp.com/neasia/001588

The performance of the SED panel exhibited by the two firms this time was significantly higher than that of the panel shown in October 2004. The contrast ratio (dim environment), for example, has been improved from 8600:1 to 100k:1, and peak luminance from 300cd/m2 to 400cd/m2. As a member of Toshiba's staff explained, "We will not begin volume production with the display performance of this panel. Display performance will be improved even further by that time. We expect to begin volume production as planned in August 2005." The developers are clearly confident that panel performance will be improved and volume production launched on schedule.

Yes that say's 100K or 100,000 : 1 contrast ratio :yesnod: :drool:

[aud19]

Estimated SED production:

[aud19]

Another update! Small-scale initial production started this month (likely only bound for Japan and/or EXREMELY well-heeled international clients.

Canon to Invest 20.8 Bln Yen in Flat Panel R&D Center (Update1)
Aug. 22 (Bloomberg) -- Canon Inc., the world's biggest maker of photocopiers, will invest 20.8 billion yen ($189 million) to open a research center next July to develop cheaper production technology for flat panel displays used in televisions.

The center will have 150 employees and be set up near an existing factory in Hiratsuka, about 50 kilometers (31 miles) south of Tokyo, Canon said in a faxed release. Research will focus on surface conduction electron emitter, or SED, displays, which Tokyo-based Canon has been developing with Toshiba Corp.

``Price competition for displays is becoming more severe and we need to develop equipment that can cut costs,'' Canon President Fujio Mitarai said at a news conference.

Canon and Toshiba are investing 180 billion yen over two years to mass produce the displays, which face competition from liquid crystal and plasma display televisions that have been on the market longer. Toshiba is phasing out production of plasma TVs to make room for the SEDs, and rivals such as Fujitsu Ltd. and NEC Corp. have sold their flat-panel business as prices decline.

Trial output of the new panels started at Canon's Hiratsuka this month as scheduled and ``is doing well,'' Mitarai said today, without giving details.

Mass production of SEDs will start at 15,000 panels a month in early 2007 and increase to as many as 75,000 displays by the end of that year, Canon and Toshiba said when they announced the investment plan last September.

and:

http://www.prad.de/en/news/shownews398.html

[aud19]

Big update!

http://neasia.nikkeibp.com/neasia/002048

SED Manufacturing Methods Revealed

SID 2005 offered a host of new technology announcements, including the method for manufacturing SED panels, as well as new backlight technologies for LCD panels.

At last a portion of the technologies used to manufacture surface-conduction electron-emitter display (SED) panels, currently under development by Canon Inc of Japan and Toshiba Corp of Japan, has been revealed. The joint venture between the two, SED Inc of Japan, presented a paper on manufacturing methods used for SED panel electron emitters, at the Society for Information Display (SID) 2005 display conference and exhibition held in Boston from May 22 to 27, 2005. The paper stressed the cost competitiveness of the technology. Volume production of panels was slated to start in August 2005, while Toshiba has made the decision to site a volume production fab at its Himeji Plant, to start operation in January 2007.


The SID 2005 event also offered a host of new technology announcements related to liquid crystal display (LCD) panels, which are experiencing steady growth in the flat-screen TV market. A variety of approaches were covered for issues such as power consumption, motion visibility and gradation characteristics. According to one engineer at an LCD panel manufacturer, "Now that SED panels are almost here, with their high image quality evaluation, the bar has been raised quite a bit in the development competition." A number of technologies dealing with expansion of the range of color reproduction and integration of peripheral components, two areas where LCD panels excel, were also presented (Fig 1).



Participants also showed considerable interest in next-generation technologies such as bendable displays and a 40-inch organic electroluminescent (EL) panel.



Electron Emitter

The strong points of the SED panel are more than the excellent image quality, as evidenced by the high contrast ratio and motion visibility on a par with that of cathode ray tubes (CRT). Canon and Toshiba, the two key developers, appear confident that SEDs are fully cost competitive with other displays already in the flat-screen TV market, such as LCD and plasma display panels (PDP). The two firms agree that the manufacturing method to be used in volume production is the major reason for this - which is why so many engineers were keenly interested in the announcements on SED panel manufacturing made at SID 2005.



The core of the manufacturing method used for the electron emitter is the forming of an electron emitter gap, without using semiconductor processes such as photolithography.

The electron emitter releases the electrons that cause the phosphors to emit light, and is a key component in determining SED panel performance. There is one emitter per sub-pixel, making it equivalent to the thin-film transistor (TFT) in LCD panels. It has been known for some time that the electron emitter has a tiny nm-sized gap to release electrons.

This time the presenters showed a cross-section of the electron emitter, revealing that a tiny gap only 4nm to 6nm in size is formed in the carbon deposited on the surface of the device film (Fig 2). The method used to manufacture this gap was also revealed, as a combination of two processes: conductance forming and conductance activation (Fig 3).

In conductance forming, pulsed voltage is used to create tiny gaps in the PdO (palladium oxide) device film printed onto the electrodes using inkjet technology. Organic gas is then introduced into the process chamber while pulsed voltage is continued in a process called conductance activation. These processes are executed continuously in a vacuum.

Conductance forming creates sub-micron class gaps in the device film, and conductance activation causes these gaps to reach the 4nm to 6nm range. Conductance activation causes the gaps to narrow because, according to Eiji Yamaguchi, senior general manager, Product Development & Design Center, Product Technology Headquarters at SED Inc, "The organic gas breaks down under hot CVD, producing carbon molecules, which are deposited on the surface of the device film." In other words, conductance activation creates a carbon thinfilm, as shown in the cross-sectional photograph of the electron emitter. This thinfilm is only 30nm to 50nm thick.



Deposition, Evaporation

Conductance activation creates the narrow 4nm to 6nm gaps, defining the characteristics of the electron emitter required for use in the SED panel. The narrower the gap, the greater the electric field density around the gap when drive voltage is applied, and the greater the device current (tunnel current through the gap), as shown in Fig 3b.

The higher device current means that, of the total, relatively more discharge current flows to the phosphors. According to SED Inc's Yamaguchi, "While the device current isn't zero prior to activation, it is extremely low, and there is essentially no discharge current."

Activation causes the device current to increase to a certain level, where it stabilizes. In other words, the gaps narrow because of activation, but finally settle down to a certain size, which happens to be 4nm to 6nm in this case. Yamaguchi explained that this happens because the deposition and evaporation of the carbon molecules reaches a balanced state.

This balanced state can be controlled by organic gas concentration and the voltage input to the device film. By controlling the equilibrium between deposition and evaporation, engineers can control the nm-size gaps. The firm has not disclosed details of the organic gas used for activation, but Katsumi Komiya, director, Product Technology Headquarters and deputy senior group executive at SED Inc pointed out, "It is not a special gas."

Cheap, as Promised

Now that some details of the manufacturing method are known, it can be seen that the glass substrate on the electron emitter side can be made with some technologies providing relatively low cost. Wiring patterns can be screen-printed onto the glass substrate, and then the device film formed with inkjet technology. Organic gas is introduced into the process chamber while the device film is conducting to create the gaps (Fig 3a).

SED Inc is confident about the manufacturing method. "No doubt engineers in the field thought we were making the electron emitters with photolithography or some other complex process. Probably few of them will believe that we can form nm-sized gaps, with good repeatability, using only simple processes like blowing a fuse. I think now that some of the details of the manufacturing process have been revealed, they'll understand how we can do it so cheaply," said SED Inc's Komiya.

The reactions of engineers to SED Inc's presentation seems to split into two major camps, one recognizing the intriguing points of the manufacturing method, and the other stressing that cost estimation, including yield, is simply impossible until volume production actually starts.

Creating the 4nm to 6nm gaps makes it possible to generate ample electrons from a low drive voltage of only about a dozen volts. The technology eliminates the need for a driver IC capable of withstanding high voltages, as is required with PDP. This fact also helps keep costs down.

Reliability

SED Inc also mentioned the characteristics of the latest electron emitter, such as the fact that the emission current achieves a density of 30mA/cm2 for an acceleration voltage of 10kV. The firm commented that the electron emission efficiency, which is the ratio of device current to emission current, has surpassed 3%. The prototype shown at CEATEC Japan 2004, held in October 2004, was said to be a bit over 1%.

Data on the reliability (life) of the electron emitter was also disclosed. Even after 60,000 hours of accelerated test, current density for the emission current dropped only 10%, backing up existing claims that the SED panel life will be determined by the phosphors, not the electron emitters.

Canon and Toshiba were planning to further improve brightness in preparation for panel volume production, hoping to achieve 500cd/m2 by the volume-production start date of August 2005. Recent prototypes already boasted a peak intensity of 400cd/m2. Researchers intended to achieve the improvement by enhancing the characteristics of the electron emitter. As Komiya explained, "We are making good progress identifying the process parameters that maximize device current."

The firm plans to start volume production for 50-inch class panels. "We will be installing equipment capable of manufacturing panels for 50-inch class sets into the Canon Hiratsuka Plant," revealed Komiya.


by Takuya Otani

[aud19]

[aud19]

They showed off some really hot 36-inch SED display prototypes, which besides registering an average of half the metered power consumption of similar sized LCD and plasma TVs, featured a totally independent viewing angles and a 100,000:1 contrast ratio. It was kind of crazy, when the screen went black it was like the whole panel disappeared.

[aud19]

Finally more detailed info on SED presentations is coming out! This is from a translated article so bear with me...

Translated article:
http://translate.google.com/translat...5%2Fdg51%2Ehtm

These pics help illustrate the excellent off-axis viewing performance of SED:



The first pic shows the stage setup with an HD camera feed going to a plasma or LCD (not sure, the translation isn't clear) in the second pic and an SED in the third pic.




The article also has info about the Pioneer and Panasonic PDP 1080p prototypes that was hopefully closely translated and summarized here with additional SED info also.

SED:
- prototype screens are prone to light reflections
- should be better almost everywhere compared to LCD/plasma
- should even be superior in some aspects to CRT
- first displays will be 55"
- production being 2006, probably high prices
- mass production 2007, falling prices
-Canon is planning to also produce smaller SED computer monitors in late 06 at comparable to LCD prices

Panasonic 50" 1080p prototype:
- noticably worse shadow detail compared to 65" 1080p model
- noticably worse shadow detail compared to 50" 768p model
- release date still undecided

Pioneer 50" 1080p prototype:
- prototype can't use single side drive right now
- shadow detail etc almost similar to 5060
- red color needs some minor tweaking
- overall noticably better than the Panasonic 50" 1080p prototype
- release planned for soccer world cup 2006

Here's some nice pics illustrating the black level differences in the three technologies :P

[David Meek]

That's some really impressive stuff Jason! I wish I could wait until 2007 to pull the trigger on a new set, but the move to the island is forcing my hand a year or so early.... :blink:

[aud19]

Well at least you can minimize spending and get one of the more affordable techs that are available now and then upgrade again in a year or two!

[Brandon B]

Hey! I was at the booth in that writeup last Wednesday.

The SED displays looked nice, but we did not spend a lot of time looking at them. As for them having anything over plasma or LCD besides black level, not in that booth.

Saw some really big LCD sets too. Plasma mfrs had a whole booth dedicated to dissing LCD. It was pretty funny, when you could turn around and walk down the aisle and see LCD displays showing none of the problems they were claiming. And there were bviously a lot of really nice plasma sets too. Also say JVC's 70" HDILA 1920x1080 set.

BB

[aud19]

Hey! I was at the booth in that writeup last Wednesday.

The SED displays looked nice, but we did not spend a lot of time looking at them. As for them having anything over plasma or LCD besides black level, not in that booth.

Well Brandon, I think that is kind of the point, no....? :lol: Other than some manufacturing and efficiency bennefits, that's SED's biggest selling point, REAL blacks So I'm glad you can confirm that :lol: (You lucky bum! : I can't wait to see one! :yesnod: )

[Brandon B]

I think what is going to be good about SED (besides its deep black heart) is its extremely low manufacturing costs. You may see 50" flat panels of this just above $1000.

Downside IMO is it has the same phosphor burnin problems as regular CRT, which LCD does not. I think we will see LCD contrast nearly competing with SED by the time it's in stores in quantities. Check this link

http://www.sharp.co.jp/corporate/news/051003-a.html

In english what is says is Sharp has developed a 1,000,000:1 CR direct view LCD monitor. Google sort of translates it to something readable.

BB

[aud19]

Yeah but is it 1,000,000 : 1 beause it can go so dark, or because it can go so bright....? And can they produce it afforbably...?

[Brandon B]

Because it can go so dark. Brightness is comparable to existing displays.

And of course it is not affordable today. My point is in 2-3 years, SED will have great contrast and probably have taken the low end of the flat panel display market. But LCD will will be able to do equivalent or better contrast and not have phosphor associated issues, and also likely be backlit by LEDs and be therefore brighter and have an better color gamut.

BB

[aud19]

Well we'll see what happens with both... and OLED, Brightside and anything else that comes along

I would imagine there will still be LCD refresh rate issues.... and burn in isn't really a concern with a properly setup and used display

I can't wait! Because no matter how you slice it, we're going to have WAY better flat panel displays then we do now and for less money! :banana:

[Brandon B]

Brightside is LED backlit LCD. I actually am not keen on them as they don't seem interested in our market ($48K for 42"?), and they have locked up the modulation of LEDs as a contrast boosting technology with patents so other mfrs cannot do it, unless they agree to license it which they don't seem to be doing.

I think SED will be the big force driving competitiveness in the flat panel arena starting next year. OLEDs of this size are 4-5 years out from being in stores.

BB

[aud19]

Yeah Brightside's insteresting as is OLED but I agree SED's where the big story is, especially in the near future. Hence this thread

[Holland]

Just as I am looking to buy my first flat tv, I get word of something even better but which is just not there yet.
So I go out and buy my $3000 plasma just to have it squased in 1 or 2 years by a SED :cry:
Maybe I just hold on to my 21' crt for just a bit longer :roll:

[JonMarsh]

You can get some fairly tolerable 30" direct view HD sets for under $1K; maybe that would be a good way to do a "holdover" until then.

I wouldn't write off LCD yet; there are some pretty good LCD panels out there, as regards technology, but of course, the good ones aren't cheap. Look at some of the better 23" widescreen monitor panels- most have pretty good off axis consistencey in color, and the best are finally getting some decent contrast ratio (go check out an Apple 23" cinema display or 30" Cinema display).

But I'm eager for SED- admittedly in no hurry, as I've got a nearly new 10PG to setup before Xmas if I can find the time... ;^)

~Jon

[Holland]

For under 1k there some HD projections but they are tolerable at best.
If I see a 2k or 3k screen I almost always fall in love with the more expensive one.
I have to say that a lot of times I mistake a EDTV for a HDTV, in some shops they give better picture then with the HDTV, all about setup. I can always go for a cheaper EDTV for the time being. Esp. there not being to many interresting HDTV material out there.

I also want my SED!!!
Come on big electronics cooperations, mass produce these babys and make us consumers happy. On the otherhand, I understand they are taking there time, making sure they can meet demands and deliver a product without to many childhood problems.

[Brandon B]

Current industry article:

http://videosystems.com/e-newsletters/SED_TV/

BB

[aud19]

Popular Science have awarded the Canon/Toshiba SED technology with the "Best of What’s New 2005 award"

http://www.hdbeat.com/2005/11/16/sed-made-best-of-whats-new/

(Sony's SXRD was also named )

[aud19]

Here's the first blurb to come out of CES, should be much more over the next couple weeks! :banana:

http://gear.ign.com/articles/679/679235p1.html