Tweet
I paired Rotel RSP-1066/RMB-1075 combo with Monitor Audio Silver 8i front, Silver 5i rears, Silver 10i centre and REL Quake subwoofer. Monitor Audio speakers can go as low as 35 Hz for 8i, 38 Hz for 5i and 48 Hz for 10i. My first set-up was with all speakers configured as LARGE and subwoofer crossover at 80 Hz. Later I’ve tried front speakers as LARGE, both centre and surrounds as SMALL, subwoofer crossover at 40 Hz. Still can tell which set-up works better, in particular for DTS music and DVD-Audio. Any comments and suggestions on RSP-1066 bass management ? Thx.
-
Movies: Samsung LCD LE37A557, Rotel RSP-1066 & RMB-1075, Sony PS3, VdH D-102 Hybrid III interc, QED XT-350 & Supra Rondo 4x2,5 speaker cable, QED Qunex P75 coax, Monitor Audio Silver 5i/8i/10i speakers, REL Quake sub, QED Qunex SR-SW subwoofer cable, IXOS XHT458 HDMI, Supra LoRad, Isotek Mini Sub GII;
Music: Rega Planar 3, Goldring 1042, Vincent PHO-8, Krell KAV-280cd, Krell KAV-400xi, B&W 703, Siltech SQ-28 Classic G5 (XLR), Siltech LS-68 Classic Mk2, Nordost Vishnu, QED Qonduit MDH6. -
What I would do is for DD and DTS set the crossover at 60 or 80 hz and set all the speakers to small. For DVD-A, SACD and stereo turn the sub off and let those mains do the bass. I you do the bass management fix by removing the two resistors you could leave the subwoofer on for the multichannel music.
-
Andrew, when I set the fronts on small, then they always only nothing below 80 Hz (crossover), except only for the analog settings inputs.Originally posted by Andrew Pratt
It would have been nice to have a way to specify sub off (and fronts on large) for the different modes.Comment
-
My understanding of the newer firmware options allows you to set sub on or off in the different modes.Originally posted by Scarp
IMHO, the problem with running all your speakers on LARGE is that you get bass localization and sometimes it causes the bass to sound too boomy and other times it causes the bass to sound too thin. The best guidance I've gotten was that all bass sources should be localized in one area (i.e. stack two subs ontop of each other) to reduce wave cancellation. Bass Management is usually the hardest part to the setup and requires lots of time tweaking. Take your time and let your ears be the judge. There is no right or wrong answer here. If you're happy so be it...Originally posted by pbarata
"Those that don't know, don't know they don't know.""Those that don't know, don't know they don't know."Comment
-
I think I tried this. So I set my fronts to small and the sub too "off" for stereo mode. But I think the end result was that there was no bass below < 80Hz going to my fronts, so it still used the small setting.Originally posted by TonyPTX
I will check tonite of this really is the case.Comment
-
This is a correct statement. I think you can only control wheither the subwoofer is On/Off in the different modes, NOT the size of the speakers.Originally posted by Scarp
"Those that don't know, don't know they don't know.""Those that don't know, don't know they don't know."Comment
-
Just found an interesting article “Miscellaneous Ramblings on Subwoofer Crossover Frequencies” at http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_9_3/feature-article-multiple-crossovers-9-2002.html. It can help to clarify some issues, but also to make others more complex. In general, Bass Management is quite a complex matter. Thx for all contribute.Movies: Samsung LCD LE37A557, Rotel RSP-1066 & RMB-1075, Sony PS3, VdH D-102 Hybrid III interc, QED XT-350 & Supra Rondo 4x2,5 speaker cable, QED Qunex P75 coax, Monitor Audio Silver 5i/8i/10i speakers, REL Quake sub, QED Qunex SR-SW subwoofer cable, IXOS XHT458 HDMI, Supra LoRad, Isotek Mini Sub GII;
Music: Rega Planar 3, Goldring 1042, Vincent PHO-8, Krell KAV-280cd, Krell KAV-400xi, B&W 703, Siltech SQ-28 Classic G5 (XLR), Siltech LS-68 Classic Mk2, Nordost Vishnu, QED Qonduit MDH6.Comment
-
Well... i tested the following:
- Fronts: Small
- Subwoofer in stereo: off
Result:
-Analog input (e.g. 2 channel SACD): fronts act as Large, getting full subwoofer range
- Digital input (e.g. PCM 44.1 KHz): fronts are small, everything below the crossover is gone!
So, I am wondering ... what is the use of setting the subwoofer to "off" then?
The only way around this is to use the analog inputs.Comment
-
Some people have mains speakers that can run in full range all the time and they chose to run with their subwoofer off because too many sources of bass in different areas of the room cause all kinds of havoc with bass localization and cancellation.Originally posted by Scarp
"Those that don't know, don't know they don't know.""Those that don't know, don't know they don't know."Comment
-
That's correct and it means the bass management is working correctly. The best way to handle wanting the mains as full range is to set the speakers to small with the cross over set to 80 which will be the prefered setting for DD and DTS. For CD, DVD-A and SACD use the multichannel inputs which aren't affected by the large/small settings or the cross over point. There is a hardware crossover on the multichannel inputs that will redirect a copy of the bass below 100 to the sub channel. To get around this you can do one of two things...option 1 is to simply set the sub to off for the multichannel inputs...or better yet perform the bass management hardware fix by snipping the two resistors as shown in the other thread on the matterI think I tried this. So I set my fronts to small and the sub too "off" for stereo mode. But I think the end result was that there was no bass below < 80Hz going to my fronts, so it still used the small setting.
I will check tonite of this really is the case.
Comment
-
What you're really wanting to do is change the large/small setting for the mains on a per-soundmode basis, and you can't do that. I'm not aware of any competing products that can do that, either. And frankly I'm not sure why you would want to. For PCM stereo, why not just let the bass-management send the low bass to the sub. Unless you have a sub-par sub, it will probably sound better anyway.It would have been nice to have a way to specify sub off (and fronts on large) for the different modes.
Just because your mains are capable of playing down into the 30's, doesn't mean they can play those frequencies better than a nice sub. In fact they almost surely can't. If using the bass management makes the 2-channel music sound too bassy or bloated, that means your sub is running hot. Go into the sub setup and drop the sub level down a few notches for strereo (you can still run the sub hot for movies thanks to separate sub settings per sound mode).
By sending the bass to your sub, you don't have to worry about phase and cancellation issues from multiple bass sources in your room. Plus, you can place your sub for optimal bass response in the room, which you really can't do for your mains. Also, by freeing your mains from having to produce that bottom octave of bass at full volume, you're probably going to improve the dynamics of your mains and lighten the load on your amp. Finally keep in mind that just because you're using an 80hz x-over doesn't mean your mains aren't playing anything at all below 80hz. The x-over is a slope, not a brick wall, so the output from your mains will gradually drop as the frequency goes lower. The general rule of thumb is that for optimal performance, your speakers should be capable of playing bass a full octave below the x-over point.
My EQ'd SVS sub sounds awesome when used with my tower mains set to small for 2-channel music. Anybody who says a subwoofer can't sound musical and integrate well with your mains for 2-channel music either has deficient sub or doesn't have things set up optimally.
Jeff Kohn
Jeff Kohn
http://home.houston.rr.com/jeffkohnComment
-
Thanks for the replies.
Andrew: turning of the sub when listening to multichannel input will also remove the LFE channel. The only way to get that back is to disable the subwoofer on the sacd/dvd-a player and set the fronts to large. Since the player will only do this on the analog outputs its not a big problem, although you loose your sub and the point in having a sub is to get more power in the deep end of the frequencies.
I am hesitant to do this hardware modification myself on my RSP1066. I will contact my dealer and ask him soon.
Jeff: many other brands have something called "pure audio" or "audio direct" (My previous Onkyo TX-NR900 had that), which makes it run without tone modifications and without bass management and therefor makes the fronts automatically large. So this setup does exist. Also as I can remember brands like Lexicon and Meridian do have seperate speaker setups for different sources. Actually Lexicon also has multiple subwoofer outputs which allows you to set it up differently for music than for movie.
But you are right about the subwoofer use. A good setup subwoofer should play happily along with the other speakers. However since I live in an appartment building I do not always want the really low sounds, so the subwoofer isnt always neccesary.
I'll soon do an upgrade of all my speakers and move from B&W 600 series speakers to B&W 800 Nautilus series (804 fronts, HTM1 center and 805 rears), besides that there is going to be a PCI plus 20-39 SVS sub (we have to import those things from the USA, but with the strong euro that makes them cheap!).
So when I got all that stuff, I'll be sure to setup it up properly for both music and surround and hopefully that will solve the problems.
You are also right on the filtering, its not a brick wall.
Anyway thanks, but I still would have liked a pure audio mode on my Rotel, but what counts is the overal quality and Rotel is a LOT better sounding than my previous Onkyo
Comment
Comment