Power on Rotel Amp

[madmac]

Anyone leave the power on all the time on their amps?. Ever since I moved into my new place, I basically leave my Rotel amp on all the time. Same for my CD player. I'm of the opinion that turning gear on and off causes more potential problems/ damage that just leaving it on. Same for my Sony RPTV. When I turn it on, it's an 'event' and stays on for the night. I believe it does more damage and causes more wear and tear on the bulb to turn it on and off. I only shut the TV down when I go to bed.

Obviously there is the power consumption issue. Especially with the Rotel amp because I believe that baby consumes a good 400 watts or so. Electricity here in Quebec is pretty cheap so I'm not breaking the bank here.

What are your thoughts and habits when it comes to powering gear on and off??.

[BWLover]

I leave my RB-1090 on 24/7. Keep her nice and warm. Also, idle power consumption isn't that much. The power ratings on the spec sheets, I believe, are max ratings. From what I've read the 1090 consumes about 70 watts on idle. So I'd say most amps from Rotel would consume around that amount on idle. So for me, I don't worry about how much it will cost to leave it on 24/7. What amp do you have?

[wkhanna]

What are your thoughts and habits when it comes to powering gear on and off??.

First there is the whole 'green' issue.
It is bad social attitude & practice these days not to be conscious of your carbon footprint.
Still, in many cases I often see great hypocrisy in how much energy is wasted in the sake of saving energy.

Valve power is 'hungry' as it draws 100% of its rating continuously.
SS is far more efficient, yet still requires a 'warm-up' to reach optimum performance.

AFA the effect on the components within the electronics themselves....
it has typically been accepted that thermal cycling from turning equipment on & off, thus exposing them to significant thermal swings going from hot to cold, can degrade the components far more than just allowing them to maintain a relative constant temperature by leaving them run 24/7.

[BWLover]

I am ridiculously green in every other aspect of my life other than leaving my amp on and using a plasma.

[PewterTA]

I've turned my amps on and off and never had a single problem with them. They are built for hundreds of thousands of power cycles. So why keep it on when you don't plan on using it for 80 hours. If it's on... it's wearing out, ever so slowly and surely. Now with powering it on and off you have the jolt of power running through the system upon power on (power off doesn't give you this as it all drains out to the speakers anyways). So you do have some "concerns" with power cycling, but it's in the realm of leaving it on all the time...

Basically I think everyone should follow this rule. If you're going to be using it in the next 30 minutes... then leave it on...but if you are going to bed for the night... then why let it sit and go through 8 to 9 hours (potentially more like 12 o 16 hours) if you're not going to use it first thing in the morning.

Yes turning it off then you have the "15 minutes of warm up time"... but I don't know too many people that sit down instantly and start critical listening within the first 15 minutes.

All you're doing is costing yourself money in the long run....

The RB-1090 idles at 70watts (at least mine does with the meter on it...) and the max I've seen it pushing it pretty darn hard is 350watts (at least it was the point to which I was not comfortable sitting and listening AT ALL.

[srb]

The RB-1090 idles at 70watts (at least mine does with the meter on it...) and the max I've seen it pushing it pretty darn hard is 350watts (at least it was the point to which I was not comfortable sitting and listening AT ALL.

Most of the power amp manufactures don't specify power consumption at idle, although a few do. The Bryston 4BSST2 (300W/ch @ 8 ohm, 500W/ch @ 4 ohm) is the closest in power to the Rotel RB-1090, and has a power consumption at idle of 170W.

This might suggest that the Bryston has a higher bias into Class A with more than double the power consumption at idle of the Rotel, although this has been quoted by Bryston to be only 2.5 to 3.0 watts.

It could be that the Rotel outputs only ~ 1.5 watts in Class A before transitioning to Class A/B or maybe it has fewer output transistors but with higher power ratings?

Steve

[madmac]

I've just had mine on for so long now, I'm afraid to turn it off!!. @BWLover, mine is the Rotel RSX-1057 surround reciever. At my old place, I used to turn it off at night. When folks here refer to 'idle', what exactly do you mean. On my Rotel, there is a main power off switch on the back that basically shuts the unit down. On the front, the switch is called 'standby'. I assume that switch does not completely power the unit totally off. I've been leaving the power totally on with the front display lit up and everything. I'm afraid by powering the 'standby' switch to off now after many months of being on will 'SHOCK' the unit!!??.

[srb]

In a tube amplifier, if a standby mode is provided it usually maintains some kind of tube filament current to reduce warm up time and extend tube life.

In a solid state amplifier, I don't think the output devices are biased or warmed up, but rather the function of standby mode is to keep the control circuitry active so that the amplifier can be powered up in response to either a remote control or trigger input.

This would make sense as the standby power consumption on most solid state power amplifiers is usually minimal, from .5 watts to a watt or two, and I would expect whatever warm up time is required for optimum sound would be the same as if the amplifier was switched completely off at the rear panel.

Steve

[mjb]

Electricity here in Quebec is pretty cheap so I'm not breaking the bank here.

What are your thoughts and habits when it comes to powering gear on and off??.

Here in Germany, electricity prices are exorbitant (because we're busy saving the planet with subsidised wind farms and high green taxes) and this has forced me to change my habits. In the past I let it all hum away 24/7/365, now I've a huge switch and it all gets turned off when I walk away. The amazing thing is, doing this has dropped my electricity bill by around 40 euro's a month. The down side is, the SSP-800 takes about 4 mins to load its firmware every time, but I can live with that. I haven't noticed any difference in sound quality, after about 5 mins its all running nice and toasty warm anyway. I am fully aware of the arguments for and against, but I'm prepared to live with the inconvenience for the sake of saving a few bucks.

[mjb]

In a solid state amplifier, I don't think the output devices are biased or warmed up, but rather the function of standby mode is to keep the control circuitry active so that the amplifier can be powered up in response to either a remote control or trigger input.

It obviously depends on the design, but a class AB amp will typically be forward biased to varying degrees - and so can draw perhaps around 30% of the rated power at rest, called "Class A power". Class D designs, like Rotels 1572, are very efficient, and probably draw only a watt or so at rest.

[mjb]

First there is the whole 'green' issue.
It is bad social attitude & practice these days not to be conscious of your carbon footprint.
Still, in many cases I often see great hypocrisy in how much energy is wasted in the sake of saving energy.

I totally agree with you! The "green issue" has steered my hand, I'm finding I'm having to do lots of things "differently" these days.

[srb]

It obviously depends on the design, but a class AB amp will typically be forward biased to varying degrees - and so can draw perhaps around 30% of the rated power at rest, called "Class A power". Class D designs, like Rotels 1572, are very efficient, and probably draw only a watt or so at rest.

Yes, but in "Standby" mode the output stage is not powered. Power consumption at "idle" or "rest" would normally refer to the amplifier being On (not in standby), but with no input signal.

Steve

[mjb]

Yes, but in "Standby" mode the output stage is not powered. Power consumption at "idle" or "rest" would normally refer to the amplifier being On (not in standby), but with no input signal.

Steve

True I was on a tangent. "Rest" would imply the amp is "on", but idle.
FYI, in Europe, Regulation 1275/2008 defines "standby power" as:

• Power consumption in off mode must be 0.5 Watts or less;
• Power consumption in stand by mode which allows reactivation must be 0.5 Watts or less;
• Power consumption in stand by mode which allows reactivation and displays information (such as a clock) must be 1 Watt or less.

[wkhanna]

.......in Germany, electricity prices are exorbitant (because we're busy saving the planet with subsidised wind farms and high green taxes)

Ha !!
Not to mention Greece, the rest of the Eurozone & the majority of the rest of all international monetary infrastructures.

[PewterTA]

I leave most of my stuff on 'Stand-by' because well... I don't want to have to load all the settings again... Though I did power off my Tuner and I should do my DVD player that I hardly ever use....

But the RB-1090 gets powered off each time... and I will hook the meter to the RB-1095 and see what it does in standby... I might power on both amps manually from now on! I know the RSP-1098 I won't... I like it keeping my settings. I wish the darn DVR would power off (and the external HD connected to it) and only power on (fully) when it records...but it sucks down the same amount of power on or "off."

[PewterTA]

RB-1095 takes .8 watts in standby mode. Not too bad...but I could turn it off when not using it for a while.... I'm all for saving money! That's what allows me to get something like Classe! ha ha.

[BWLover]

My version of the RB-1090 doesn't have a 12 volt trigger. So it's either on or off. But even if it did, I guess spending to much time in hi-fi shops at a young age kind of conditioned me into the habit of leaving amps on haha.

[PewterTA]

What's funny is leaving them on all the time when the longest I've ever heard of an amp taking to warm up is about 15 minutes. Some tube amps could take longer of course...but paying for 20 hours of it being on just to listen for what, 4 hours a day, to me doesn't make a lot of sense.

And if in 5 to 10 years it breaks from all the power on an offs..... well that just means I have to get better then when that happens. I hate being "forced" to upgrade! ha ha.

[BWLover]

When I had my RB-1080 it had a 12V trigger. So it was put in standby like my pre amp and cdp. But the 1090 doesn't. And I don't want to completely power it on and off manually all the time. Kind of defeats the purpose of the harmony remote lol.

[audiocvk]

You should always turn off any electronics when you aren't using them. The longer you leave equipment on, the shorter life span it will have. Many manufacturers tell this and recommend turning equipment off if you don't want to shorten the life span of your equipment. Today's technology of dealing with inrush currents surpass the days of worry turning on an off equipment. Turn those gear OFF if you want to extend the life span of your equipment. I would not want to buy a used amp or any equipment from a user who left it on 24/7!! The risk of MTBF is much higher. Baby your gear and treat them right if you value them!!

[madmac]

You should always turn off any electronics when you aren't using them. The longer you leave equipment on, the shorter life span it will have. Many manufacturers tell this and recommend turning equipment off if you don't want to shorten the life span of your equipment. Today's technology of dealing with inrush currents surpass the days of worry turning on an off equipment. Turn those gear OFF if you want to extend the life span of your equipment. I would not want to buy a used amp or any equipment from a user who left it on 24/7!! The risk of MTBF is much higher. Baby your gear and treat them right if you value them!!

Hummm.......I just may listen to you on this one!. What do other's on the forum think about this post???. Sound off folks.....let's do a vote!.

[srb]

Transistors, diodes, ICs, resistors, etc. have a relatively long lifespan. Electrolytic capacitors have the shortest rated life of all the internal components, which is why you see many older components get re-capped.

The average 85C capacitor may typically only be rated for 2000 to 3000 hours life at that temperature. Granted, temperatures are normally lower than that, thus increasing life. That is why 105C rated capacitors are more robust, as they will have much longer life given the same working temperature.

This does not necessarily mean that at X number of hours they will completely fail, but at the very least they may have greatly reduced capacitance and higher ripple voltage output, resulting in reduced audible performance.

So give those caps and energy use (and your electric bill) a break and turn the equipment off. I've had a number of components perform reliably after more than 20 years of turning off and on each day, and as previously pointed out, is only getting better with the implementation of soft-start circuitry for even less component stress.

Steve

[BWLover]

My problem is my amp is on/off completely. No standby via 12V trigger. My pre and cdp have 12V triggers, so they have standby mode. I have no problem putting the cdp/pre in standby. But unfortunately my RB-1090 isn't the latest generation with the 12V trigger. So, should I still COMPLETELY turn it off and on all the time? That's what worries me. My RB-1080 had standby and was put in that all the time. But never completely on/off via the front push in/out button.


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[srb]

Completely Off and Standby (for those components that have it) are usually the same thing as far as the internal amplifier parts are concerned (output transistors, capacitors, etc.) because they are generally powered down in either of those states. Standby mode provides a small amount of power to 12V trigger relay circuits and/or IR remote control circuits so the components can power back up when triggered by a another component or when the remote control On button is pressed.

Steve