multi disc CDP vs single disc CDP

[JonJeffman]

Hi there,
I've been looking into upgrading my CD player, now that I realize bits aren't just bits and that the CD player makes a difference, and all the Rotel models I've seen touted as top quality are single disc players (ie. RCD-991, RCD-1072, the Michi CD player, etc).

But I'm quite used to having a 5 disc carousel and was wondering if there are any multi disc players that rival the single disc players listed above? If not how come? While I understand there's more mechanisms & motors and what not in a multi disc player, none of those would be running while a disc is playing, only when switching discs.

I also saw on Rotel's website that the RCC-1055 has the same DAC as the 1072 (Burr Brown 1732) and I thought this was the biggest decider of sound quality.

Any advice/info is appreciated.
Thanks

[htsteve]

JonJeffman,

I have a 900 series Rotel 5 disc player that was my primary CD player for years, and I still use quite a bit. And enjoy it, quite good sound. I also had a 1072 early last year. The 1072 was better, but I think that was due to the more recent DAC in it. I do believe that the DAC is the most critical part of the CDP. So if the 15 series CD players have the same DAC, the performance should be quite similar.

One advantage a single disc player would have is a better chassis that would reduce small vibrations in the unit. Less vibration is always a good thing for any CD player. Also, the cost devoted to the multi CD mechanism's would most likely be devoted to better parts in a single CDP.

Rotel also has launched the 15 series, and there is a single disc CD player. For best performance, this might be one ot check out. But the 10 series probably has better deals on them.

The best thing to do is try to demo each of these. Preferably in your home.
Let your ears decide.

What CD player are you currently using?


Hope this helps.

[miner]

I have both the RC-1072 and RCC-1055 - I cannot tell a sonic difference between them and the RC-1072 was touted as a giant killer. My only gripe with the 1055 is its RNG - the way it shuffles. It may play 3 songs on a CD before changing to another CD. This only matters if you enjoy shuffling.

[rantzmar]

I have two muti CDP's . One is the Rotel RCC 1050 and the other is the Marantz VC6001 which also is a SACDP. Both machines are very good at what they do, but I happen to like the Marantz better because its a warmer player than the Rotel. The Rotel is very good and detailed tho. But the warm sound is not for every one...it just me... I love Jazz and classical and to my ears a warm player is better for the sound I like. I noticed the other day while listening, the Marantz, used with certain recordings in my collection have an all most tube sound. I also noticed the other day that some recordings that sound rather dead because of a poor recording, sound more alive with the Rotel...the rotel seems to gie it more shine. At one point I thought about selling the Rotel on Audiogon, but now its a keeper. I believe it has better detail than the Marantz, just not as warm, but I do think its a very good player. Just wondering what a external DAC would sound like with the Rotel.

[wombat2009]

I bought a used RCC-1055 to replace an aging Yamaha cdc-755. While the Rcc-1055 uses the same DAC and has the same specifications as the RCD-1072 it does not have the same internal electronic components. For example the RCD-1072 has Panasonic FC electrolitics the RCC-1055 has Su Con? an unknown brand. The RCC-1055 also has OP275 op amps the RCD-1072 uses different ones. The RCC-1055 has an EI transformer the RCD-1072 has a toroide. So the quality of the electronic components used is different and I would say lower than the single disk players. I guess this is done because it costs more for a changer mechanism so they must cut the quality of the components to keep it under the single disk player price and also for marketing, if the changer sounded as good or better than the single disk the single disk would not sell.
I found that the Yamaha sounded better than the RCC-1055. But I am tweaking the RCC-1055. So far replacing the power diodes, shieding the transformer and installing high speed power diodes and changing the op amps have bought it up to the yamaha performance. Will be replacing the Electrolytics and installing case dampening in the next few months. One good thing is the Rotel is easy to work on. The best advice I can give is if you have the chance listen to the players first on the same exact system and see if you can hear the difference. Also do not right off Marantz or Yamaha changers, my Yamaha certainly surprised me.
Regards

[NonSense]

JonJeffman

If you are looking for musical variety and quality sound. Forget about a carousel and setup a music server with a quality DAC. You will achieve better results, at similar or better price point.

I built up a fanless PC with a solid state drive. Absolutly silent. Added a sound card with bit perfect SPDIF and reference clock input. The ASIO drivers prevent Windows from messing up the data stream, and FooBar2000 does all the work. If you rip your collection with EAC, the playback quality will be hard to beat. Your DAC will be your limitation. The results were so good that I havn't played a CD in ages.

Now when I hit shuffle, I get random playback from thousands of tracks. When I'm laid back listening to a mellow playlist, I can't even imagine putting up with delays, and machanical noise while the platter is moving around.

Just my opinion.
Cheers!

[rantzmar]

I bought a used RCC-1055 to replace an aging Yamaha cdc-755. While the Rcc-1055 uses the same DAC and has the same specifications as the RCD-1072 it does not have the same internal electronic components. For example the RCD-1072 has Panasonic FC electrolitics the RCC-1055 has Su Con? an unknown brand. The RCC-1055 also has OP275 op amps the RCD-1072 uses different ones. The RCC-1055 has an EI transformer the RCD-1072 has a toroide. So the quality of the electronic components used is different and I would say lower than the single disk players. I guess this is done because it costs more for a changer mechanism so they must cut the quality of the components to keep it under the single disk player price and also for marketing, if the changer sounded as good or better than the single disk the single disk would not sell.
I found that the Yamaha sounded better than the RCC-1055. But I am tweaking the RCC-1055. So far replacing the power diodes, shieding the transformer and installing high speed power diodes and changing the op amps have bought it up to the yamaha performance. Will be replacing the Electrolytics and installing case dampening in the next few months. One good thing is the Rotel is easy to work on. The best advice I can give is if you have the chance listen to the players first on the same exact system and see if you can hear the difference. Also do not right off Marantz or Yamaha changers, my Yamaha certainly surprised me.
Regards

WOW! I thought about getting external DAC's for my RCC-1055 but what you have makes me wish I could do what you are doing. Any step by step instructions any where?

[miner]

I am also interested in your 1055 upgrade path. Does anyone offer this online?

[wombat2009]

There are no step by step instructions that I know of on upgrades like the ones I have done. I will put togeather a list of parts and replacements when my mods are complete and I am happy with the sound. I will also include some instructions. You must be able to recognise components and be able to desolder the old components and be able to solder in the new ones. Once you have a list of components you can always price a technician to do the mods for you or find someone who has built electronic kits. I am currently working on which capacitors to use in the audio coupling circuit so this could take a while. In the meantime listen to music and relax.
As for a music server and Dac that sounds like a great idea and I will do something like that in the future but I use a changer because it was cheap (especially used) and it is easy to use.
Regards

[JonJeffman]

The best thing to do is try to demo each of these. Preferably in your home.
Let your ears decide.

What CD player are you currently using?


Hope this helps.

Ideally I'll demo them but I'm sort of building a system from scratch - my hand-me-down speakers have disintegrated the foam surrounds and buzz, so I started looking for new speakers and realized I should look into upgrading most my stuff. So right now I doubt I'd hear much difference between components. I'm just kind of researching what I want to keep an eye out for.

Right now I have a Kenwood DP-R797 CD changer. I don't really know it's quality but I think it was about $150 15 years ago so I assume it's not that good.

In general I'm looking for used equipment but is that a problem with CD players? Do the laser mechanisms all have a finite lifespan?

If you are looking for musical variety and quality sound. Forget about a carousel and setup a music server with a quality DAC. You will achieve better results, at similar or better price point.

I'm kind of interested with this but don't really know that much about setting up a music server. Can't I get a decent used CDP for $500. Am I really going to be able to buy an external DAC, computer, sound card, SSD, etc. for less than this? Also space is a bit of an issue for me so a player fits on my rack and a desktop won't.

Also, I'm not sure why but there's something about the whole 'ceremony' of going to my CD shelf, thumbing through the CD's and picking some out to listen to that I like. But with some artists, like NiN, releasing better-than-CD quality digital tracks I guess this gives the flexibility for whatever new technologies come along. I'll look into this some more. Do you have any good links or posts on music servers you could pass along?

Thanks,

[mjb]

I'm kind of interested with this but don't really know that much about setting up a music server. Can't I get a decent used CDP for $500. Am I really going to be able to buy an external DAC, computer, sound card, SSD, etc. for less than this? Also space is a bit of an issue for me so a player fits on my rack and a desktop won't.

The easiest (and probably cheapest) way to get a "music server" set up and running, is to put iTunes on your PC, and buy an "airport express" for the hi-fi.

The PC/Mac will stream to the AP express, which has a S/PDIF output for hooking up to your DAC or processor. If you rip your CD collection to Apple-Lossless, it will be bit perfect as it arrives at the DAC.

If have an iPhone (or ipod Touch), you can use it as a remote control with display to browse, search, and control playback. This also means the Mac or PC can be left where it is. The only additional kit you'll have in the living room will be the airport express hidden behind the rack.

The airport express is $99, iTunes is free.

[june]

thanks miner,

your sonic review saved me a few $$$. i also read the 1072 was the killer cd player. i have the 1055 changer also. and we share the same "random play" issue. but to sit back and randomly play 5 different jazz cd is great.

[sirbogey]

This also means the PC can be left where it is.

You mean the Mac can be left where it is. Since Mac is not a PC :P

[mjb]

This also means the Mac or PC can be left where it is.

You mean the Mac can be left where it is. Since Mac is not a PC :P

Original post corrected :T

[JonJeffman]

The easiest (and probably cheapest) way to get a "music server" set up and running, is to put iTunes on your PC, and buy an "airport express" for the hi-fi.

I know some people who have done this with an airport express but I was wondering if it can actually wirelessly stream a high enough data rate to get top quality sound. I can't see anything on Apple's website that says it's data rate.

I was looking at the Benchmark DAC and it talks about 192 kHz, 24 bit DA conversion. Do you think the airport express can transfer this fast?

My only gripe with the 1055 is its RNG - the way it shuffles. It may play 3 songs on a CD before changing to another CD. This only matters if you enjoy shuffling.

My current CD player does this also and I just heard that Apple had to redesign the 'random' feature on the shuffle so that it's not actually random, but people think it is. i.e. no one wants to believe that 3 songs on a CD in a row can happen randomly. So I guess this 'pseudo-random' has some rules to it like to not pick songs from the same album back to back.

[NonSense]

I know some people who have done this with an airport express but I was wondering if it can actually wirelessly stream a high enough data rate to get top quality sound. I can't see anything on Apple's website that says it's data rate.

I was looking at the Benchmark DAC and it talks about 192 kHz, 24 bit DA conversion. Do you think the airport express can transfer this fast?

Jon

The airport express indicates an 802.11N data rate. This translates to 108 Mbps. 196000x24x2=9408000 (9.4Mbps) Even if there is 5x the bit rate in overhead, there still should be some margin.