BluRay and RSP1098

[rangeles]

Hello All.

With the HD format war over, I am looking to purchasing a Blu-Ray player. With advent of Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD, will I have the ablity to play these formats with my 1098? Will the decoders work via digital connection or will I have to take the analog pre-outs of the player to make it work. Also, I have notices that most Blu-ray players only have pre-outs for 5.1?

Any and all advise is appreciated.

Russ.

[kmcheng]

For the 1098, you will need a player that can decode and output those formats via 7.1 analog. The digital connections would not work for the lossless formats. Do a search on this Rotel forum; I remember that someone mentioned about such a player in one of the threads.

[hifiguymi]

With the RSP-1098 you will need a BD player that has internally decoding for those formats to go into the multi channel analog inputs. It sounds like you need a player that has a 7.1 analog output as well. There are a few that are just now coming out and/or that will be out in the next 30-60 days. Both of the new Pioneer units have everything you would need and here are links to them.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/Blu-rayDisc+DVD/EliteBlu-rayDiscPlayers/ci.BDP-05FD.Kuro

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/Blu-rayDisc+DVD/PioneerBlu-rayDiscPlayers/ci.BDP-51FD.Kuro

The Pioneer Elite BDP-05FD is available now and the Pioneer BDP-51FD is shipping very soon. The set up of the speakers and bass management is OK (but not complete) in both of the Pioneer units.

Sony will have a BDP-S550 out in October that will have 7.1 analog outputs but it remains to be seen if the bass management and speaker set up is any good.

The best one I've seen is the Denon DVD-3800BDCI. It is also the best sounding BD player I've heard and it is full featured in terms of speaker set up and bass management. The downside is price. You can find it here.

http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3961.asp

Best of luck and let us know if you have any other questions.

Eric

[mjb]

Via SP/DIF, the 1098 displays either Dolby Digital or DTS, depending on the source. Its 5.1 (fronts and surrounds are active), but not TrueHD or DTS HD as the 1098 can't decode that.

I'd like someone to explain to me what exactly is happening here too! It appears that Dolby Digital/DTS decoding on the 1098 must be some how compatible with TrueHD/DTS HD. It certainly sounds OK.

As for using a 7.1 analogue output form the BD player, I'd like to think the DAC's in the 1098 will do a better job than the ones in the player, despite lacking the TrueHD/DTS HD codecs. Anyway, utilising analogue 7.1 is not an option I have with my BD player (a Samsung 1500).

[Kevin D]

Via SP/DIF, the 1098 displays either Dolby Digital or DTS, depending on the source. Its 5.1 (fronts and surrounds are active), but not TrueHD or DTS HD as the 1098 can't decode that.

I'd like someone to explain to me what exactly is happening here too! It appears that Dolby Digital/DTS decoding on the 1098 must be some how compatible with TrueHD/DTS HD. It certainly sounds OK.

All the new DTS and Dolby formats have a backward compatible CORE track consisting of regular Dolby Digital and DTS.

The new formats are extensions of the old format. So any sound going out the optical/coaxial outputs will be the standard core and be able to be decoded by a normal Dolby/DTS decoder.

Kevin D.

[hifiguymi]

As for using a 7.1 analogue output form the BD player, I'd like to think the DAC's in the 1098 will do a better job than the ones in the player, despite lacking the TrueHD/DTS HD codecs. Anyway, utilising analogue 7.1 is not an option I have with my BD player (a Samsung 1500).

That depends on the quality of the DACs and the analog stage of the BD player. As I stated in my earlier post, the Denon DVD-3800BDCI is very good sounding. That piece would sound great with the RSP-1098 using the multi channel analog inputs. I've heard the DVD-3800BDCI with a few different preamps (Krell HTS, Meridian G68, Aragon Stage 1) and it sounds fantastic. It should base on it's price. I would bet the RSP-1098 decoding standard Dolby Digital and dts will sound better than using the analog outputs of a Sony, Panasonic or Samsung player.

Eric

[mjb]

Thanks Kevin, that's what I thought.
Any thoughts about the quality of the 1098's DACs in "legacy mode" vs TrueHD via a BD players analogue out?

[mjb]

TI would bet the RSP-1098 decoding standard Dolby Digital and dts will sound better than using the analog outputs of a Sony, Panasonic or Samsung player.

My thoughts too!

So, as the new formats are backwards compatible, a 1098 will do a pretty good job decoding with Dolby Digital or DTS from a TrueHD or DTS HD stream, and is preferable to using the decoded analogue outputs on low(er) end players.

[htsteve]

That depends on the quality of the DACs and the analog stage of the BD player. As I stated in my earlier post, the Denon DVD-3800BDCI is very good sounding. That piece would sound great with the RSP-1098 using the multi channel analog inputs. I've heard the DVD-3800BDCI with a few different preamps (Krell HTS, Meridian G68, Aragon Stage 1) and it sounds fantastic. It should base on it's price. I would bet the RSP-1098 decoding standard Dolby Digital and dts will sound better than using the analog outputs of a Sony, Panasonic or Samsung player.

Eric

I agree with the assessment on the Denon. I also needed to find a BR player that could decode internally as my pre-amp does not do this. The 3800 is fantastic sounding. HD audio format are awesome (especially DTS MA). The 3800 has 1 Burr Brown DAC for every 2 channels of HD Audio decoding. This partly explains the pricing. The scaler is quite good and the BR picture is excellent. Overall, an outstanding unit. As has been noted, it is an expensive player.

As noted, there will be more choices soon in the internal decoded BR player market. I would think a good BR decoder into a very nice unit like the 1098 would be a good combination.


Hope this helps.

[WI Rotel]

With the RSP-1098 you will need a BD player that has internally decoding for those formats to go into the multi channel analog inputs. It sounds like you need a player that has a 7.1 analog output as well. There are a few that are just now coming out and/or that will be out in the next 30-60 days. Both of the new Pioneer units have everything you would need and here are links to them.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/Blu-rayDisc+DVD/EliteBlu-rayDiscPlayers/ci.BDP-05FD.Kuro

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/Blu-rayDisc+DVD/PioneerBlu-rayDiscPlayers/ci.BDP-51FD.Kuro

The Pioneer Elite BDP-05FD is available now and the Pioneer BDP-51FD is shipping very soon. The set up of the speakers and bass management is OK (but not complete) in both of the Pioneer units.

Sony will have a BDP-S550 out in October that will have 7.1 analog outputs but it remains to be seen if the bass management and speaker set up is any good.

The best one I've seen is the Denon DVD-3800BDCI. It is also the best sounding BD player I've heard and it is full featured in terms of speaker set up and bass management. The downside is price. You can find it here.

http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3961.asp

Best of luck and let us know if you have any other questions.

Eric

These players is like Garcia Marquez's "No one writes to the colonel" They seem to have been "in the works" forever :roll:
Its still to be seen if Sony will make the DTS MA decoder available to other older players other than the PS3. Again, the issue is technologically stupid since neither DTS MA nor Dolby HD are necessary to have a lossless, uncompressed 7.1 track in any blueray movie (many other studios have non encoded lossless tracks both 7 and 5.1). What is disappointing is that many 7.1 movies have been released in DTS MA thus unless your player or processor can decode it your stuck only with the 5.1 core, as explained above a completely useless excercise.

[kmcheng]

So, as the new formats are backwards compatible, a 1098 will do a pretty good job decoding with Dolby Digital or DTS from a TrueHD or DTS HD stream, and is preferable to using the decoded analogue outputs on low(er) end players.

Sorry I have to disagree. There is just no comparison between the lossless formats (even on lesser speakers/electronics) and the legacy Dolby/DTS formats. To use an analogy, think of the difference between SD television at 480i and HD television at 1080p. The best analog SD televison set would still not come close to a relatively crappy 1080p set.

The improvement in the audio formats maybe less dramatic, but is still very noticeable. I encourage you to go to an audio dealer with the right audio equipments to compare the two formats and decide for yourself whether you like the lossless formats enough to upgrade.

My own experiences comparing the two formats convinced me that I should spend the money to get the capability to decode the lossless tracks. For example, the same movie sounded much better on my friend's FPM6 than on my 805S simply because he was running the Dolby TrueHD track and I was not.

There are also movies that, even though encoded in the lossless formats, really do not sound that great. However, the problem there lies with the source materials, not with the format.

[hifiguymi]

Sorry I have to disagree. There is just no comparison between the lossless formats (even on lesser speakers/electronics) and the legacy Dolby/DTS formats. To use an analogy, think of the difference between SD television at 480i and HD television at 1080p. The best analog SD televison set would still not come close to a relatively crappy 1080p set.

The improvement in the audio formats maybe less dramatic, but is still very noticeable. I encourage you to go to an audio dealer with the right audio equipments to compare the two formats and decide for yourself whether you like the lossless formats enough to upgrade.

My own experiences comparing the two formats convinced me that I should spend the money to get the capability to decode the lossless tracks. For example, the same movie sounded much better on my friend's FPM6 than on my 805S simply because he was running the Dolby TrueHD track and I was not.

There are also movies that, even though encoded in the lossless formats, really do not sound that great. However, the problem there lies with the source materials, not with the format.

Quite a few players, actually most, that have internal decoders don't have any bass management or speaker set up (delay time, speaker size, speaker level). I would rather have a very good preamp that has a good lossy decoder and good DACs than using a player that you can't set up properly with poor DACs and a bad analog stage.

Eric

[kmcheng]

Quite a few players, actually most, that have internal decoders don't have any bass management or speaker set up (delay time, speaker size, speaker level). I would rather have a very good preamp that has a good lossy decoder and good DACs than using a player that you can't set up properly with poor DACs and a bad analog stage.

Eric

Good point. The players with good DAC and proper setup options cost dearly. This basically means there is no "cheap" way to fully or properly take advantage of the lossless audio formats yet. The user has to decide for himself whether it is worth the money now to upgrade AFTER he has a chance to compare the old and the new.

I believe there is a poster around here who added a Denon receiver (Denon 2808?) and PS3 to his Halcro setup just for the capability to decode the lossless sound tracks. And in his case he thinks it was worth his effort and money.

[bigburner]

I believe there is a poster around here who added a Denon receiver (Denon 2808?) and PS3 to his Halcro setup just for the capability to decode the lossless sound tracks. And in his case he thinks it was worth his effort and money.

Chris D perhaps?

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=29731

Nigel.

[rangeles]

Thanks Nigel.

I have never thought of using outboard decoder and line it in to the 1098! I will have to take note which route is better...a fairly price Denon BR player or another reciever.

Russ.

[Toolman]

OK, now I'm a little confused: I have a rsx-1067 receiver and am faced with the same problem. I plan to purchase the new Panasonic BD-55 Blu-ray player to get the on-board decording for Dolby True HD and DTS-HD. The Rotel web-site FAQ section says I just need to hook up the 7.1 analog outputs from the player to the multi-input jacks on my receiver.

Does this setup then bypass all processing from the receiver (i.e bass management,etc.) making the sound quality completely dependent on the player quality rather than the Rotel? What does the LCD display during playback?

Thanks,

John

[mjb]

Does this setup then bypass all processing from the receiver (i.e bass management,etc.) making the sound quality completely dependent on the player quality rather than the Rotel? What does the LCD display during playback?

Yes, all the 1098 processing is by-passed.
The 1098 LCD will be blank, unless you feed it a separate composite signal from the BD player.

[dmcgowan]

Chris D perhaps?

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=29731

Nigel.

I also did this - hooked up an Integra DTR-6.8 so it takes HDMI ex my PS3 and I do 7.1ch pre out to my 1098. Would love to report it's a success but having gone to the effort of putting it in the rack, running audyssey through the 1098/1077 combo (which seemed to work ok) and listening just once my damn PS3 has died on me. First listen was very positive but haven't really had a chance to compare properly yet. No idea how long PS3 repairs will take but it is at least workable.

Cheers,


Darren