Trade In my 1068 For Receiver?

[chanlon]

Hi everyone.

I'm thinking about trading in my Rotel 1068 processor for a current receiver for preamp/processing duties. I will be connecting my 1075 amp to whatever receiver I will be using. I've been looking at Yamaha and Pioneer Elite.
My use is 70% movies (Blu-ray/HD DVD and DVD) and 30% music from an Arcam CD player. I use PSB Silver i speakers

Has anybody out there seriously auditioned a receiver from preamp/processing duties for the latest codec support? I've been more than impressed with the preamp and noise levels with the current generation of $1000 receivers.
I can honestly say I'm not sure I can justify double the cost for a 1069 processor. I have been using Rotel equipment for 10 years and enjoy the service and product. However, I'm starting to think the new processing power and value of the japanese receivers, is very competitive with Rotel/NADs, etc for processing duties.

Any opinions? I'd love to hear your input. I don't want to make a decision I will regret.

Thanks!

[june]

hello chanlon,

this is just MHO. i think it's hard to go backwards from a processor to a reciever. i was a yamaha rxv-3000 person for years. also used with a rotel 985mkii amp. once i got the rsp-1068 everything changed. much better sound. i'm also 80% movies 19% music.

i still have not heard the new surround sound modes (true hd, dts-hd.......)
but the blu-ray disc sound much better than the standard. i thought about getting a reciever just for the new sound modes. but when it come down to it, 5.1 dolby digital / dts works for me, as long as it's playing thur my rotel rsp-1068.

by the way, i found a great deal on a rsp-1066 ($350) but i had to drive from philly to new york to make it happen. but now i have a small theater in my bedroom also.

[Blindamood]

I just went through the same process. I have the RSP-1068, and no longer have the rack space (nor the desire) to deal with multi-channel analog switching. (Have been using a Zektor switcher for HDMI and multi-channel analog.) I considered several processor alternatives (RSP-1069, NAD T175, etc.), but ended up going with the Denon AVR-3808CI. I had read a bit about this receiver on another popular forum, and found out there was an authorized retailer that was giving VERY nice discounts on it. So, I called them and got the price...my decision was made! Just about half the MSRP for the RSP-1069.

When comparing receivers, I also considered available features. It had to decode Dolby True-HD and DTS Master Audio (which implies HDMI 1.3a) and switch at least 4 HDMI inputs. As with many other receivers, it provides Audessey sound calibration, video scaler, etc., but what really got me was the Denon's Internet support. I can hook the 3808 up to my existing network to stream music, and as well as to download firmware updates directly, as needed. Just seemed to have the widest scope of features, as well as solid reviews on build and sound quality. I'm also considering their 2500 blu-ray transport, but may wait a while on that.

My order is expected to arrive Thursday, so I'll be able to report more once I get it going. Then, I need to make a decision about amplification. Currenty, I'm planning to stick with my Rotel RMB-1085 as an external amp, but may try it without to see how it sounds.

[Ferres]

It would be nice to know how the newer receivers stack up against veteran pre-pros.

[WI Rotel]

It would be nice to know how the newer receivers stack up against veteran pre-pros.

Actually receivers should work just fine. The pre portion of good receivers tends to be as adept as a good standalone pre since most of the processing chips are the same, analog might suffer a little bit. The biggest issue with receivers is the amp portion, it is simply very hard to cram a good power supply plus a good pre plus a good tuner in one box. Case in point, imagine a 1095 plus a 1069 plus a tuner in one box!!! Obviously you would need only one power supply making the other components smaller but then you have to manage heat, isolating of individual circuits etc, the "box" would be enormous indeed!
As other posters have noted, decoding of high definition codecs on the receiver mandates HDMIversion3 capable components all around.

[chanlon]

Thanks for your responses. This is a very tough decision.

June, once I heard the lossless codecs through the multi-channel input on my Rotel from my Toshiba A35 I was sold. There is absolutely no comparison between dolby digital and DTS-HD or TRUEHD. ITs not even close.
When you factor in that I own a Oppo 970HD that I use as a SACD/DVD-Audio player through analog outputs and a SONY PS3, the need for a HDMI equipped processor is stronger then ever. There is no Dolby Digital processor, no matter what the make is going to sound as good as these new lossless codecs IMO. I'd love to own a HDMI 1.3A unit with a quality scaler like the Denons and Integras of the world.

I love the 1068 for music. However, I heard a Yamaha RX-V1800 receiver connected to a Rotel 1075 and it sounded awesome. It was very tough to differentiate between the 1068 and V1800. I could hear a difference but could not tell which one was the more expensive unit. This was in a showroom however.

Blindamood, I'm very interested in hearing your opinion. As a matter of fact, I was considering the Zekktor switch and read most of your posts.

WI ROTEL - I couldn't agree with you more. The Yamaha receiver on its own, couldn't hold a candle next to the sound of the Rotel 1075 amp. Once you ad the amp however, its a toss up.

Bass management is limited in the Yamaha model however. Basically its a 80Hz cut-off point if you select small speakers. Also, I've read reports that the unit cannot pass HDMI passively, and it clips video "below black" levels.

Thanks for your responses again. Much appreciated.

[Mig17]

Yamaha 1800 and Rotel 1075 surely you have very thin sound

[Ferres]

I used a 2003 model marantz reciever as a pre before I went rotel. The difference was pretty big. Maybe the 2008 models have greatly improved.

[chanlon]

Perhaps the units are getting better. For a while I used my Rotel RSX-972 receiver with the 1075. When I upgraded to the 1068 I noticed a difference.

OR.... could always be the fact that I am getting older and tighter with my money.

I'm not saying the 1068 is NOT superior to the preamp of the Yamaha or Pioneer. I'm saying that I question whether its worth double the cost in todays market. I could not differentiate which model should cost more in a blind test.
Just a personal opinion that's all. Appreciate all your comments!

[GregLett]

Perhaps the units are getting better. For a while I used my Rotel RSX-972 receiver with the 1075. When I upgraded to the 1068 I noticed a difference.

OR.... could always be the fact that I am getting older and tighter with my money.

I'm not saying the 1068 is NOT superior to the preamp of the Yamaha or Pioneer. I'm saying that I question whether its worth double the cost in todays market. I could not differentiate which model should cost more in a blind test.
Just a personal opinion that's all. Appreciate all your comments!

chanlon,

Weather it's worth it is entirely up to you. There are folks that feel that it is and some who don't. Trust your ears.

[mjb]

So we all agree that a combo receiver/amp is not as good as a receiver with an external amp, and that a processor and amp is yet better, but not by as much. Sounds like a case of diminishing returns. Choose your budget, and trust your ears!

[Blindamood]

Denon AVR-3808CI has arrived! Can't wait 'till I can get it hooked up and configured this weekend. I'm finally going all digital.

Look for an excellent Rotel RSP-1068 and Zektor MAS7.1 switcher, coming soon to audiogon...

[GregLett]

Denon AVR-3808CI has arrived! Can't wait 'till I can get it hooked up and configured this weekend. I'm finally going all digital.

Look for an excellent Rotel RSP-1068 and Zektor MAS7.1 switcher, coming soon to audiogon...

Looking forward to reading your thoughts.

[chanlon]

Hi guys.

I figured I should write it and let you know that I compared a the Rotel 1068 with several receivers over the past few days in my home. AND... I trusted my ears.

Let me start by saying YES, the Rotel 1068 is superior using an analog input.
My Arcam CD player sounded much more open, detailed and a hair more transparent than Pioneer Elite and Yamaha. If you spend any time listening to 2CH audio, the Rotel really shines as a preamp. Really no comparison.
I also much prefer the cleaner, non-crowed look of the Rotel. I found myself at times looking for buttons and getting frustrated. Especially on the Pioneer
I'll eat some crow.

However when you throw in Blu-ray/HD DVD and DVD in the mix with a 1.3 HDMI input, things are very comparable. I could not determine which unit I preferred using Dolby Digital and DTS. Obviously, the benefits of lossless audio and 1.3A compatibility speak for themselves. Plus, the convenience of HDMI shines.

In a nutshell, I will stick with the Rotel for the time being. There is no Onkyo/Integra or Denon dealer in my area to audition a unit.
Rotel has been good to me so I'm going to wait it out for a while.

Thanks for all your help.

[Dmantis]

Hi guys.

I figured I should write it and let you know that I compared a the Rotel 1068 with several receivers over the past few days in my home. AND... I trusted my ears.

Let me start by saying YES, the Rotel 1068 is superior using an analog input.
My Arcam CD player sounded much more open, detailed and a hair more transparent than Pioneer Elite and Yamaha. If you spend any time listening to 2CH audio, the Rotel really shines as a preamp. Really no comparison.
I also much prefer the cleaner, non-crowed look of the Rotel. I found myself at times looking for buttons and getting frustrated. Especially on the Pioneer
I'll eat some crow.

However when you throw in Blu-ray/HD DVD and DVD in the mix with a 1.3 HDMI input, things are very comparable. I could not determine which unit I preferred using Dolby Digital and DTS. Obviously, the benefits of lossless audio and 1.3A compatibility speak for themselves. Plus, the convenience of HDMI shines.

In a nutshell, I will stick with the Rotel for the time being. There is no Onkyo/Integra or Denon dealer in my area to audition a unit.
Rotel has been good to me so I'm going to wait it out for a while.

Thanks for all your help.

The Pioneer is about the best sounding receiver used as a preamp in the 94txh. I personally considered doing a you did. I'm still waiting around to see what everyone else does for new preamps. Classe released there and as it's out of my price range, it maybe a sign for things to come. I don't like the rsp1069 I believe it's a total waste of time and money.

[Blindamood]

Denon AVR-3808CI

Well, I'm still in the process of getting my new AVR set up, but though I'd share some initial observations. First of all a disclaimer -- since I've moved, my setup has changed quite a bit. Not only the space, but the new AVR and new sub (Velodyne MiniVee). So direct comparisons are going to be difficult. Plus, I just got my surround speakers (B&W SCMS) installed yesterday, so I'm finally back to 5.1! Rest of system includes Rotel RMB-1085 amp, B&W 805S and HTM4S, Oppo DV-980H, Sony BDP-S1, and (also new) Roku Netflix Player.

I've got the Oppo, Sony, and Roku connected to HDMI inputs 1-3 on the Denon. Using HDMI for audio and video on all 3. I initially set the Denon to scale both Analog and HDMI inputs, since the Roku is 480p. It looks (so far) like the Oppo and Sony are passing straight through at 720p (my tv's max).

The Denon is quite a complex beast, offering many more setup options, as well as providing more information (e.g., you can display video and audio signal details) vs. the Rotel RSP-1068. It is definitely geared more toward HT, and since that is what I primarily use my system for (in addition to multi-channel music), I think it's a good change for me. Yes, the Rotel has a more 'pure' sound via the analog inputs (2-channel or multi-channel), but the Denon really excels on multi-channel audio and the newer codecs over HDMI.

One thing that really impressed me (and was a reason I selected the Denon), is the ethernet port. Before installing, I hooked up the Denon to my router and did a firmware update. Took about 60 minutes, and got me to the latest revison. The ethernet port also allows you to stream Internet radio, but I don't yet have the permanent wiring available (working on that soon).

I'm also really loving the ability to play SACD and DVD-Audio from the Oppo straight through HDMI. This gives me the option of either converting to PCM and sending to the Denon, or allowing the Denon to play the DSD directly. It offers two direct modes: "Direct", which disables all sound processing, and "Pure Direct", which also turns off all video processing and the front-panel display. This mode sounded amazing with my brief testing late last night.

Today my biggest challenge is getting my Harmony remote working with the new setup. Sometime after that, I'm going to run the Audyssey auto setup, to see how it affects the sound in my room. Should be interesting...

[GregLett]

Great Brad :T

[Blindamood]

Well, I seem to have the Harmony remote working well now, for all the different configurations I'm using. After listening for a while today, though, I noticed that the Denon gets quite hot. Since I had installed the RMB-1085 on a shelf above the Denon, I felt it too just to check...wow, it was just cooking! Guess having the shelf in between didn't help much as the heat rose from the receiver. So, I took it all apart and put the amp back below the receiver...so far, so good. Didn't really want to bake my amp in the process. The good news is that with the simplified connections (i.e., HDMI), it didn't take too long to reconfigure things.

Right now I'm watching the Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds Live from Radio City Music Hall blu-ray...sounds incredible with the Sony sending 96kHz PCM (from the Dolby TrueHD track) directly over HDMI.

[Blindamood]

Okay, I believe a little more follow-up is in order. And, even though I'm reporting on the Denon, please don't get me wrong...I'm a huge fan of Rotel. However, right now, their processors (to me) do not represent the value sweet spot that they did when I first purchased the RSP-1068.

Anyway, I finally ran the Audyssey auto-calibration, and I believe this has really opened up my system. After it determines your settings, you can choose to turn it on and off, allowing you to compare the before vs. after. When I do so, I really like how it is affecting the sound, especially on music. While it is impossible to compare against my previous setup (since I've moved to a new place), I really do think that overall my system sounds better. For example, my center speaker (which is partially enclosed on a shelf above the tv) really sounds much more clear and open. And I believe that all of the speakers are blending together better than before I ran the calibration.

Some of the calibration settings were a bit odd (e.g., setting my B&W 805S to 'Large' and cutting over the SCMS rears at 40Hz), but overall the level and distance measurements were very accurate. So, all in all, I think the features of the Denon far outpace the newest Rotel, at half the price. Hopefully, Rotel has some big plans in place to get their processors back in competition, and take advantage of many of the advances that other processors and receivers are implementing.

Okay, I'm done now. Returning to 5.1 nirvana... :W

[tonybark]

great thread - and great forum - glad I found it. I need to replace a blown receiver that I was using as a stopgap pre/pro with an Arcam P1000 7-channel 135WPC amp. I had planned on getting the matching Arcam AVP700 last year but the budget never allowed. Anyway I keep going back and forth between using another receiver as a pre/pro or finally getting a dedicated processor. I also have a Sony VPL-VW50 projector, Sony BDP-S300 Blu-ray, HD cable box, and an Elite DVD player I use for a little multi-channel audio. I can get a Yamaha 1800 for $750 on clearance, which would give me all the connectivity and switching I need, or I was considering a demo Rotel RSP1068 from the local dealer that would be $950 w/ full warranty. I can handle all the video switching with a Zektor and the projector, so that is not a critical issue. Sometime down the road I would upgrade the B/R to handle 7.1 analog for the True HD if need be. So the real difference now is whether the Rotel 1068 is worth $200 more than the Yamaha 1800 for the sound qualities alone, when used with the Arcam. Or I could also get a demo AVP700 for $1650. Would a Rotel 1069 be better? Should I just bite the bullet for the new RSP1570? My usage is mostly HT at this time.

Too many choices! Any thoughts?

Thanks!!!!

[Ken49r]

I can get a Yamaha 1800 for $750 on clearance, which would give me all the connectivity and switching I need, or I was considering a demo Rotel RSP1068 from the local dealer that would be $950 w/ full warranty.

The 1069 is better sounding than the 1068. You might be able to get the 1069 at around the same price as the demo 1068. The dealer is able to get the 1069 at a lower price from Rotel this way he can pass on the savings to you.

[tonybark]

also, if it helps the analysis, I have B&W 603 S2 speakers.

[fhsun]

Would a Rotel 1069 be better? Should I just bite the bullet for the new RSP1570?

I looked at the Rotel 1069 and it does sound good. However, the 4 HDMI inputs are version 1.1, not 1.3.

I believe it takes version 1.3 HDMI to pass decoded Dolby TrueHD and DTS HDMA for some players that don't have 7.1 analog output so beware. That's the case with my BD player since it does not have 7.1 analog output.

[chanlon]

Personally, I wouldn't be looking at the 1068. I think you should be looking for a great deal on a 1069. I purchased a 1069 a few weeks ago after auditioning several receivers. This is what I concluded:

If you are listening/watching mostly movies, I couldn't really tell a distinct difference between the Rotel, Yamaha or Pioneer Elite units I auditioned.
However, when I started listening to concert movies/blu-rays, I could hear a difference in the presence, soundstage and depth of the recordings. The music simply sounding more musical to my ears.

If you will be doing a lot of listening to 2 CH audio, the Rotel is clearly superior to the "mass-produced" receivers IMO. The difference is very noticeable for me.

I purchased a 1069 and have no problems whatsoever with the unit. I've read a lot of negative reviews regarding strange behavior, poor quality, lack of HDMI 1.3, etc. I had one issue with HDMI handshaking between my satellite receiver and Rotel. After updating the firmware, the problem has gone away. I'm using a PS3 Blu-Ray and Toshiba HD-A35 HD DVD player and enjoying the lossless codecs. Besides Rotel offer excellent support. Highly recommended!

[Ken49r]

Personally, I wouldn't be looking at the 1068. I think you should be looking for a great deal on a 1069. I purchased a 1069 a few weeks ago after auditioning several receivers. This is what I concluded:

If you are listening/watching mostly movies, I couldn't really tell a distinct difference between the Rotel, Yamaha or Pioneer Elite units I auditioned.
However, when I started listening to concert movies/blu-rays, I could hear a difference in the presence, soundstage and depth of the recordings. The music simply sounding more musical to my ears.

If you will be doing a lot of listening to 2 CH audio, the Rotel is clearly superior to the "mass-produced" receivers IMO. The difference is very noticeable for me.

I purchased a 1069 and have no problems whatsoever with the unit. I've read a lot of negative reviews regarding strange behavior, poor quality, lack of HDMI 1.3, etc. I had one issue with HDMI handshaking between my satellite receiver and Rotel. After updating the firmware, the problem has gone away. I'm using a PS3 Blu-Ray and Toshiba HD-A35 HD DVD player and enjoying the lossless codecs. Besides Rotel offer excellent support. Highly recommended!

Ditto! Ditto! Ditto!
I upgraded from an Onkyo to the RSP-1069 and everything you said is right on target with my thoughts as well. To much focus on HDMI 1.3 (bells & whistles of receivers) and not the sound quality of the receiver. Even with HDMI 1.3 and it's HD display will the receiver match the sound of the RSP-1069 in 1.1? I can live with a minor picture quality flaw from Rotel since it is only a matter of time before they would have a firmware update for it.

[Alex999]

Ditto! Ditto! Ditto!
I upgraded from an Onkyo to the RSP-1069 and everything you said is right on target with my thoughts as well. To much focus on HDMI 1.3 (bells & whistles of receivers) and not the sound quality of the receiver. Even with HDMI 1.3 and it's HD display will the receiver match the sound of the RSP-1069 in 1.1? I can live with a minor picture quality flaw from Rotel since it is only a matter of time before they would have a firmware update for it.

I was wondering about this. Is it possible to go from HDMI 1.1 to 1.3 with the firmware update? I need a new preamp and this is holding me back from purchasing a new preamp any time soon.

[hifiguymi]

I was wondering about this. Is it possible to go from HDMI 1.1 to 1.3 with the firmware update? I need a new preamp and this is holding me back from purchasing a new preamp any time soon.

No, it's hardware. The circuit for HDMI 1.1 and HDMI 1.3 are different and cannot be done with firmware.

Eric

[Alex999]

No, it's hardware. The circuit for HDMI 1.1 and HDMI 1.3 are different and cannot be done with firmware.

Eric

Thanks Eric. I knew it was too good to be true .

[Ken49r]

I was wondering about this. Is it possible to go from HDMI 1.1 to 1.3 with the firmware update? I need a new preamp and this is holding me back from purchasing a new preamp any time soon.

Alex999,

I was referring to the compatibility issues with certain HDMI sources plugged into the 1069. That when Rotel finds out about them it is only a matter of time before an update is released to fix the issue.
Also I was merely boasting the SQ of the 1069 vs some receivers that will have HDMI 1.3 is not going to make the receiver sound better over the 1069 even though it has HDMI 1.1. Rotel puts much more emphasis into sound quality than the big box receiver companys do. To me, that is more important since music plays through my system more than movies. How well a component plays music is the true test to how the sound quality will be for movie playback as well. IMO