DTS HD MA mystery solved!!!!!

[WI Rotel]

Well, finally got my copy of the Golden Compass. Audio is DTS HD master audio 7.1. no other codecs are selectable.

Result on BDP 2000es: RSP 1069-Multi channel 7.1 48K
Unless the latest (or a previous ) update for the player added "Master Audio" capability (it didn't say it did), the DTS MA HD myth has been laid bare, period, end of story. :twisted:

It is simply 7.1 LPCM nothing more, nothing else. Furthermore, as discussed before, even the latest greatest movies are still recording at DVD sample rates 48K/16, not 96K/24. The only difference is that now full 7.1 instead of 5.1 is available.

[Nolan B]

Well, finally got my copy of the Golden Compass. Audio is DTS HD master audio 7.1. no other codecs are selectable.

Result on BDP 2000es: RSP 1069-Multi channel 7.1 48K
Unless the latest (or a previous ) update for the player added "Master Audio" capability (it didn't say it did), the DTS MA HD myth has been laid bare, period, end of story. :twisted:

It is simply 7.1 LPCM nothing more, nothing else. Furthermore, as discussed before, even the latest greatest movies are still recording at DVD sample rates 48K/16, not 96K/24. The only difference is that now full 7.1 instead of 5.1 is available.

ugh....another thread by you on false information.

WI. Just becuase you dont have the choice to choose something besides DTS MA doesnt mean that is what you are getting when watching the movie with a player which CAN NOT decode DTS MA. Now if your player can decode DTS MA (I dont know if it can 100%, but im 90% sure it cant) then you are listening to it. If your player does not decode it you are listening to the lossy core track of DTS MA which is getting turned into LCPM then sent to your 1069.

LPCM does not equal lossless. Heck I listen to MP3s as LPCM from my Mac.


Sorry to say you proved nothing.

DTS MA is still bit for bit and you need a player which can decode it in order to listen to it

DTS HD is a lossy format which is near the master, but still lossy track which can be 8 channels 24bit etc.

I am really going to try hard not to get sucked into this debate again.

[Kevin D]

Wi,

There is another possible explanation for this. Do me a favor and unplug all speaker output but the fronts and center rears. Listen to some scenes from the disc again and see if the same thing is coming out of the fronts and center rears. IE, an exact copy of the fronts is coming out of the center rears.

I have a problem with my RDV-1093 when outputting DVDA discs via MPCM over HDMI where the 1069 copies the front information to the center rears. Well all know DVDA is only 5.1, but I do get 7.1 output from it. I run no-center, so it's really obvious to me there's a problem with vocals coming out of the center rears. I would imagine on music or a movie you don't know real well with a center channel, a copy of the fronts on the center rears might be unnoticeable until isolated.

It's something to do with the HDMI handshake and certain devices as MPCM out of my HD-DVD player does not put fronts on the center rears.

According to all reports, you should only be getting regular DTS 5.1 out of the 2000 when playing a DTS-HD MA track. If the 1069 is copying the fronts, you will get psuedo 7.1.

Let me know what you find.

Kevin D.

[btf1980]

the DTS MA HD myth has been laid bare, period, end of story. :twisted:

I just sincerely hope that people who might not fully understand the new formats don't read your posts on the matter because to say you are misinformed and confused would be an understatement. The puzzling part is how you post with such conviction and vigor about a subject you couldn't even be more wrong about and clearly don't fully understand. DTS HD MA is not a "myth" and your proof is not the end of any story.

[Snap]

Kevin, and Nolan said it all....

[wettou]

Well, finally got my copy of the Golden Compass. Audio is DTS HD master audio 7.1. no other codecs are selectable. The DTS MA HD myth has been laid bare, period, end of story. :twisted: It is simply 7.1 LPCM nothing more, nothing else. Furthermore, as discussed before, even the latest greatest movies are still recording at DVD sample rates 48K/16, not 96K/24. The only difference is that now full 7.1 instead of 5.1 is available.

You really don't get it here is the info from the source

http://www.dtsonline.com/dts-hd/why-does-dtshd-sound-so-good.php

http://www.dtsonline.com/dts-hd/identical-to-the-studio-master.php

May be that will help?

[WI Rotel]

Wi,

There is another possible explanation for this. Do me a favor and unplug all speaker output but the fronts and center rears. Listen to some scenes from the disc again and see if the same thing is coming out of the fronts and center rears. IE, an exact copy of the fronts is coming out of the center rears.

I have a problem with my RDV-1093 when outputting DVDA discs via MPCM over HDMI where the 1069 copies the front information to the center rears. Well all know DVDA is only 5.1, but I do get 7.1 output from it. I run no-center, so it's really obvious to me there's a problem with vocals coming out of the center rears. I would imagine on music or a movie you don't know real well with a center channel, a copy of the fronts on the center rears might be unnoticeable until isolated.

It's something to do with the HDMI handshake and certain devices as MPCM out of my HD-DVD player does not put fronts on the center rears.

According to all reports, you should only be getting regular DTS 5.1 out of the 2000 when playing a DTS-HD MA track. If the 1069 is copying the fronts, you will get psuedo 7.1.

Let me know what you find.

Kevin D.

Not a chance, as we have discussed previously the 1069 cannot process LPCM audio to add the 2 rear speakers. Furthermore, the "rear" information is definitely different and separate from the "surround" info. Additionaly, as we have also discussed, the manual of the sony clearly states that full bandwith DTS HD MA cannot be processed to 7.1 it is decoded as core DTS which is 5.1. The only possibility that would make my analysis incorrect would be if sony slipped the DTS HD MA codec into one of its upgrades post printing of the manual as they did with the PS3 which the DTS website triumphantly trumpeted last month. Quite simply DTS HD MA is DTS HD (AKA 7.1 LPCM) with further bandwidth which as of today not a single movie exploits since movie tracks are still at a 48 sampling rate and 1.5 MBPS. Also note that prior to the high def formats previous DVD movie audio was rarely laid down at 1.5 mbps ( the highest DVD transfer rate) most of the time they were laid down at 748 kbps due to space constraints. :T

[WI Rotel]

You really don't get it here is the info from the source

http://www.dtsonline.com/dts-hd/why-does-dtshd-sound-so-good.php

http://www.dtsonline.com/dts-hd/identical-to-the-studio-master.php

May be that will help?

I suggest you read it again since the info on the first link you provided is about DTS HD not MA. Not even DTS can keep their MA vs HR propaganda straight. MA is HR with a higher transfer rate, period. Though that may be of use in the future (whenever movie studios decide to record their movies in native 7.1 96/24 standard) as of today no 7.1 movie comes anywhere close to exceeding the capacity of the HR standard. The only thing that would exceed DTS HR would be movies with greater than 1080p resolution, (which don't exist), with audio at 7.1 96/24 (which don't exist either). ERGO, as with HDMI 1.3, MA offers additional bandwidth that is of no use today and may never be of use! That is exactly the reason why Dolby true HD can transmit 7.1 "lossless" audio through the present standard, MA is simply a promotional ploy to say that they can do something Dolby cannot.

[WI Rotel]

I just sincerely hope that people who might not fully understand the new formats don't read your posts on the matter because to say you are misinformed and confused would be an understatement. The puzzling part is how you post with such conviction and vigor about a subject you couldn't even be more wrong about and clearly don't fully understand. DTS HD MA is not a "myth" and your proof is not the end of any story.

It appears that it is you that doesn't adequately understand the new formats! I have already proven that DTS HR and MA are exactly the same thing since a player certified for only HR can play an MA encoded movie without any constraints since so called "7.1 MA standard" movies come nowhere close to using the bandwith of HR. DTS MA simply that the codec has the to carry an audio track of 24 mbps bandwidth. If it did, DTS HR only players could not handle the transfer rate causing them to revert to 5.1 (DTS core). I have already proven twice once with a DTS MA music disc and now with a movie, that to date, no bluray disc in production exceeds the DTS HR bandwidth.

[Kevin D]

Not a chance, as we have discussed previously the 1069 cannot process LPCM audio to add the 2 rear speakers. Furthermore, the "rear" information is definitely different and separate from the "surround" info. Additionaly, as we have also discussed, the manual of the sony clearly states that full bandwith DTS HD MA cannot be processed to 7.1 it is decoded as core DTS which is 5.1.

Ok, a little less info this time so you won't skim over it.

1) There is a bug in the 1069 with certain players where a 5.1 MPCM signal can be handled incorrectly.

2) When this happens the center rear information will be different then the rear information as you pointed out. The center rear sound will be the same as the FRONT sound as I pointed out.

3) If this bug can happen with Rotel's own RDV-1093, I would imagine it could easily happen with a Sony player.

Feel free to test this and reply with your results, rather then post a "I'm right" reply with no results.

If you still don't want to test this for us, here's another odd bug for you. If my RDV-1093 is set to output 480I and I play something that is MPCM to the 1069, I can apply any sound field I want. 7ch stereo, PLIIx, etc.. And its not a text display problem as the sound does change. If I set it to 480p+, I can no longer apply a sound field (but I still have doubled fronts). So bugs in the 1069 dealing with the problematic HDMI signal can produce any number of strange results!

Here's the problem Wi, this isn't a subjective thing we are talking about. This isn't speaker A sounds better then speaker B, or even DTS-HD sounds the same as DTS-HD MA. The claim that DTS-HD MA doesn't exist, it's just marketing, it's only multi-channel PCM is just not correct.

There are thousands of people wanting to get new Blu-ray players just to be able to decode DTS-HD MA. Same with people wanting new receivers because their players can only bitstream DTS-HD MA. There's more that were extremely happy to get this decoding on the PS3. Was this just a fake update that finally let the standard MPCM track out (the PS3 doesn't really decode it, it just wasn't flagged as MPCM, the update just made the PS3 see the DTS-HD MA flag as MPCM).

Basically with two discs you have come to a definitive conclusion no one else in the world has come to. You state it as fact regardless of anything else. I'm not trying to insult you, but if what you claim were true...you wouldn't have been the first person to find out about it.

You can only say everyone else is wrong for so long.

Kevin D.

[Nolan B]

It appears that it is you that doesn't adequately understand the new formats! I have already proven that DTS HR and MA are exactly the same thing since a player certified for only HR can play an MA encoded movie without any constraints since so called "7.1 MA standard" movies come nowhere close to using the bandwith of HR. DTS MA simply that the codec has the to carry an audio track of 24 mbps bandwidth. If it did, DTS HR only players could not handle the transfer rate causing them to revert to 5.1 (DTS core). I have already proven twice once with a DTS MA music disc and now with a movie, that to date, no bluray disc in production exceeds the DTS HR bandwidth.

Wi,
Bandwidth, bitrate, and sample rate do not equate in any capacity to bit for bit lossless audio and you can not draw your conclusions from those numbers.

Do you really think everyone (including industry insiders) are wrong and you managed to find out that a player which cant decode DTS MA actually gets the same bit for bit lossless track as one which does? Its marketing BS and you are the guy who uncovered the conspiracy?

If you did then kudos to you, but I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt it.

I rarely say I am 100% right cuz there is always a chance something changed without me knowing, but I have kept up to date on the new HD audio formats from a scientific level to a general level every day for the past 2 years. I can assure you that your assumptions are categorically false.

While I will agree that some lossless tracks will have little difference to lossy tracks and in some cases (definately not all) you may even need scientific instruments to measure the actual difference. For the most part the audible difference between lossy (which is what you are hearing) and lossless ranges from slight to very noticable.

Let me bring your attention to a few examples.

1.) House of 1000 corpses: this disc is DTS HD 7.1 not be confused with DTS MA becuase its not. A player which decodes this will send it over HDMO as PCM audio. Ultimatly you are still listening to a lossy codec

2.) The golden Compass: has 7.1 DTS MA which is bit for bit to the master. You however dont have a player which can deocde it so you are listening to the lossy version. Let me ask you this: If you are SO sure DTS MA and DTS HD are the same and would sound the same what test did you do? You were not able to set up a comparision between the DTS MA and the core codec because your player cant decode DTS MA.

DTS MA is not a myth and you did not displell anything.

In your deffense one thing I will say is that the companies who designed these sound formats have not be very clear about the differences and labling.

Allow me to bring your attention a link where Joshua Zyber from hidefdigest explains next gen audio. Ill pull out a couple of relavent quotes.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Joshua_Zyber/High-Def_FAQ:_Blu-ray_and_HD_DVD_Audio_Explained/1064

"DTS-HD High Resolution
What it is: Similar to Dolby Digital Plus, DTS-HD High Resolution is an enhancement over standard DTS that offers higher bit rates and better compression. DTS-HD HR is also encoded as an extension to a "core" DTS track. (Note that DTS-HD HR is sometimes referred to as just "DTS-HD", which can be confusing and possibly misleading).
Level of support: Since this codec is also optional on Blu-ray, many players will only extract the 1.5 Mb/s DTS core and ignore the extension.
Examples of discs that use it: 'Basic Instinct', 'Total Recall'.

How to get it:

Toslink or Coaxial SPDIF - Because SPDIF cannot transmit a full DTS-HD HR signal, the player will extract the DTS core and send the bitstream for that instead.

HDMI - If the player does not support DTS-HD HR, it will extract the DTS core, replicating the DTS listing above. Some players may decode the DTS-HD HR to PCM and transmit it over any version of HDMI. Other players will instead transmit the DTS-HD HR bitstream to a receiver for decoding (this requires HDMI 1.3).

Multi-channel analog - Either the Blu-ray player will extract and decode the DTS core, or (on some models) will decode the full DTS-HD HR and convert it to analog."


DTS-HD Master Audio
What it is: Another lossless audio codec similar to Dolby TrueHD. The difference between the two is that DTS-HD MA is built in a core+extension configuration (just like DTS-HD HR). Although a DTS-HD MA track takes up more disc space than a TrueHD track, it does not require a secondary standard track for backwards compatibility. Since both DTS-HD MA and TrueHD are lossless, they are both 100% identical in quality to the studio master, and hence identical in quality to each other.
Level of support: Like DTS-HD HR, Master Audio is optional on the Blu-ray format. If the player does not support DTS-HD MA, it can extract the standard DTS core.
Examples of discs that use it: Almost all titles from Fox Home Entertainment.

How to get it:
Toslink or Coaxial SPDIF - SPDIF cannot carry a DTS-HD MA signal. When using this connection type, the player will extract the standard DTS core instead and transmit that as a bitstream.

HDMI - If the player does not support DTS-HD MA, it will extract the DTS core. Some players may decode the DTS-HD MA to PCM and transmit it over any version of HDMI. Other players will instead transmit the DTS-HD MA bitstream to a receiver for decoding (HDMI 1.3 required).

Multi-channel analog - Either the Blu-ray player will decode the standard DTS core, or (on some models) will decode the DTS-HD MA and convert it to analog."

You are a good guy WI and I am attacking the post and not you personally. If I am wrong and all that I know on this topic is actually incorrect then thats fine. I need to know the science behind your findings and confirmation from more credible (no offence) sources.

Do us all a favor...emali DTS with your findings, or find a thread on AVS, BD.com etc who can confirm/debunk your findings. I can assure you I know the answer you will get :W


Maybe your player got an update and is actually decoding the DTS MA track?!

Anyway..thats it....I am done on this topic and I hope anyone who reads this thread who is new to HD audio formats takes everything said here with a grain of salt.

[Nolan B]

If you still don't want to test this for us, here's another odd bug for you. If my RDV-1093 is set to output 480I and I play something that is MPCM to the 1069, I can apply any sound field I want. 7ch stereo, PLIIx, etc.. And its not a text display problem as the sound does change. If I set it to 480p+, I can no longer apply a sound field (but I still have doubled fronts). So bugs in the 1069 dealing with the problematic HDMI signal can produce any number of strange results!

LOL..thats pretty funny. so if you play a hirez DVDA and set the player to 480i you can apply any sound field? Makes me think the 1069 is very close to being able to apply PLII to PCM from BDs and HD DVDs.

Im getting a Oppo 980H which I plan to use for SACD and DVD A. It has the ability to send video @ 480i over HDMI so im goin to play around with that a bit.

[WI Rotel]

Wi,
Bandwidth, bitrate, and sample rate do not equate in any capacity to bit for bit lossless audio and you can not draw your conclusions from those numbers.

Do you really think everyone (including industry insiders) are wrong and you managed to find out that a player which cant decode DTS MA actually gets the same bit for bit lossless track as one which does? Its marketing BS and you are the guy who uncovered the conspiracy?

If you did then kudos to you, but I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt it.

I rarely say I am 100% right cuz there is always a chance something changed without me knowing, but I have kept up to date on the new HD audio formats from a scientific level to a general level every day for the past 2 years. I can assure you that your assumptions are categorically false.



While I will agree that some lossless tracks will have little difference to lossy tracks and in some cases (definately not all) you may even need scientific instruments to measure the actual difference. For the most part the audible difference between lossy (which is what you are hearing) and lossless ranges from slight to very noticable.

Let me bring your attention to a few examples.

1.) House of 1000 corpses: this disc is DTS HD 7.1 not be confused with DTS MA becuase its not. A player which decodes this will send it over HDMO as PCM audio. Ultimatly you are still listening to a lossy codec

2.) The golden Compass: has 7.1 DTS MA which is bit for bit to the master. You however dont have a player which can deocde it so you are listening to the lossy version. Let me ask you this: If you are SO sure DTS MA and DTS HD are the same and would sound the same what test did you do? You were not able to set up a comparision between the DTS MA and the core codec because your player cant decode DTS MA.

DTS MA is not a myth and you did not displell anything.

In your deffense one thing I will say is that the companies who designed these sound formats have not be very clear about the differences and labling.

Allow me to bring your attention a link where Joshua Zyber from hidefdigest explains next gen audio. Ill pull out a couple of relavent quotes.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Joshua_Zyber/High-Def_FAQ:_Blu-ray_and_HD_DVD_Audio_Explained/1064

"DTS-HD High Resolution
What it is: Similar to Dolby Digital Plus, DTS-HD High Resolution is an enhancement over standard DTS that offers higher bit rates and better compression. DTS-HD HR is also encoded as an extension to a "core" DTS track. (Note that DTS-HD HR is sometimes referred to as just "DTS-HD", which can be confusing and possibly misleading).
Level of support: Since this codec is also optional on Blu-ray, many players will only extract the 1.5 Mb/s DTS core and ignore the extension.
Examples of discs that use it: 'Basic Instinct', 'Total Recall'.

How to get it:

Toslink or Coaxial SPDIF - Because SPDIF cannot transmit a full DTS-HD HR signal, the player will extract the DTS core and send the bitstream for that instead.

HDMI - If the player does not support DTS-HD HR, it will extract the DTS core, replicating the DTS listing above. Some players may decode the DTS-HD HR to PCM and transmit it over any version of HDMI. Other players will instead transmit the DTS-HD HR bitstream to a receiver for decoding (this requires HDMI 1.3).

Multi-channel analog - Either the Blu-ray player will extract and decode the DTS core, or (on some models) will decode the full DTS-HD HR and convert it to analog."


DTS-HD Master Audio
What it is: Another lossless audio codec similar to Dolby TrueHD. The difference between the two is that DTS-HD MA is built in a core+extension configuration (just like DTS-HD HR). Although a DTS-HD MA track takes up more disc space than a TrueHD track, it does not require a secondary standard track for backwards compatibility. Since both DTS-HD MA and TrueHD are lossless, they are both 100% identical in quality to the studio master, and hence identical in quality to each other.
Level of support: Like DTS-HD HR, Master Audio is optional on the Blu-ray format. If the player does not support DTS-HD MA, it can extract the standard DTS core.
Examples of discs that use it: Almost all titles from Fox Home Entertainment.

How to get it:
Toslink or Coaxial SPDIF - SPDIF cannot carry a DTS-HD MA signal. When using this connection type, the player will extract the standard DTS core instead and transmit that as a bitstream.

HDMI - If the player does not support DTS-HD MA, it will extract the DTS core. Some players may decode the DTS-HD MA to PCM and transmit it over any version of HDMI. Other players will instead transmit the DTS-HD MA bitstream to a receiver for decoding (HDMI 1.3 required).

Multi-channel analog - Either the Blu-ray player will decode the standard DTS core, or (on some models) will decode the DTS-HD MA and convert it to analog."

You are a good guy WI and I am attacking the post and not you personally. If I am wrong and all that I know on this topic is actually incorrect then thats fine. I need to know the science behind your findings and confirmation from more credible (no offence) sources.

Do us all a favor...emali DTS with your findings, or find a thread on AVS, BD.com etc who can confirm/debunk your findings. I can assure you I know the answer you will get :W


Maybe your player got an update and is actually decoding the DTS MA track?!

Anyway..thats it....I am done on this topic and I hope anyone who reads this thread who is new to HD audio formats takes everything said here with a grain of salt.

"Maybe your player got an update and is actually decoding the DTS MA track?!"

Unless I'm wrong with my analysis, that would be the only way it could do what it is obviously doing! But, as far as I know sony has not included that capability in any of its software upgrades.

[WI Rotel]

May Someone Pass Me The Crow!

I just spent 1/2 an hour with the sony live chat support. It took us a while to pin down the issue.

While sony has not stated in its update descriptions anything about master audio, indeed MA codec decoding capability has been included!!!!!!
ops: ops: ops: ops:
Sorry DTS fans!!!!!

My bad, but also Sony's fault :M they should state what they include in the update instead of:
This utility updates the BDP-S2000ES firmware to version 3.70, and provides the following benefits:

Improvements over firmware version 3.60:

Improves BD-Java compatibility to enhance interactivity with some BD-ROMs.
Additional improvements over original firmware:

Compatibility with BD-R/RE discs burned by the Click to Disc™ and Click to Disc™ Editor software included with some VAIO® computers
Improves BD-Java compatibility to enhance interactivity with some BD-ROMs.

[WI Rotel]

Well, finally got my copy of the Golden Compass. Audio is DTS HD master audio 7.1. no other codecs are selectable.

Result on BDP 2000es: RSP 1069-Multi channel 7.1 48K
Unless the latest (or a previous ) update for the player added "Master Audio" capability (it didn't say it did), the DTS MA HD myth has been laid bare, period, end of story. :twisted:

It is simply 7.1 LPCM nothing more, nothing else. Furthermore, as discussed before, even the latest greatest movies are still recording at DVD sample rates 48K/16, not 96K/24. The only difference is that now full 7.1 instead of 5.1 is available.

Check solution below :T

[Nolan B]

I just spent 1/2 an hour with the sony live chat support. It took us a while to pin down the issue.

While sony has not stated in its update descriptions anything about master audio, indeed MA codec decoding capability has been included!!!!!!
ops: ops: ops: ops:
Sorry DTS fans!!!!!

My bad, but also Sony's fault :M they should state what they include in the update instead of:
This utility updates the BDP-S2000ES firmware to version 3.70, and provides the following benefits:

Improvements over firmware version 3.60:

Improves BD-Java compatibility to enhance interactivity with some BD-ROMs.
Additional improvements over original firmware:

Compatibility with BD-R/RE discs burned by the Click to Disc™ and Click to Disc™ Editor software included with some VAIO® computers
Improves BD-Java compatibility to enhance interactivity with some BD-ROMs.

Are you kidding me? They included DTS MA decoding and didnt even anounce it? lol Seems like some information people would like to know. I guess when they got the rights to release it for the PS3 they were able to put it into their other players.

[WI Rotel]

Are you kidding me? They included DTS MA decoding and didnt even anounce it? lol Seems like some information people would like to know. I guess when they got the rights to release it for the PS3 they were able to put it into their other players.

Appears to be exactly the case.

[cxc21]

We need someone with good lab equipment to sort this out. On home electronics there is no chance. What is shown in the displays is based on presets. That a player can decode DTS MA does not mean that it will put it out. It is often listed in the compatibility list, but only means that it will play these formats putting out DTS core. The BDP-S2000 cannot and will never put out MA as far as Sony told me. It does not have the electronics for the bandwidth involved. Ask the Tech support what audio processor is used in this player.

[WI Rotel]

We need someone with good lab equipment to sort this out. On home electronics there is no chance. What is shown in the displays is based on presets. That a player can decode DTS MA does not mean that it will put it out. It is often listed in the compatibility list, but only means that it will play these formats putting out DTS core. The BDP-S2000 cannot and will never put out MA as far as Sony told me. It does not have the electronics for the bandwidth involved. Ask the Tech support what audio processor is used in this player.

Again, DTS core is 5.1, the player is outputing 7.1 PCM 48K (that is what the 1069 is displaying). As we had discussed before, the only way it could do that is if it had the correct decoder (or as I erroneously thought DTS MA was simply an extension to HR). The 2000es has a more advanced decoder than the PS3 (which can now decode DTS MA) thus there is no reason to doubt that the codec was included in the latest ES 2000 update, version 3.7! Of course, all this is only possible through HDMI.

[hifiguymi]

I just got confirmation from my Sony rep that the BDP-S500 and BDP-S2000ES does not, and will not ever, decode or bitstream dtsHD Master Audio. It's a hardware limitation.

Also as a side note the BDP-S300 does not, and will not ever, decode Dolby TrueHD internally. Some people thought it might after the latest firmware update as well.

Here is what my rep sent me.

My reps response.

Eric,

The answers are no, no and no. There are no plans to add DD True HD streaming or decoding to the S300 nor DTS HD MA to the S500.

DTS-HD MA is more than a firmware upgrade there are also hardware considerations. Therefore the S500 and S2000ES will not get MA support.

All that said, the new S350 and S550 will support MA (the S350 will stream only, no internal decoding. The S550 will not only stream and decode but will decode and output through the built-in 7.1 channel analog outputs.

Gary

My original e-mail
Gary,

Could you answer a couple of questions, or get this to someone that can if you don't know the answers.

1. Does the recent firmware update to the BDP-S300 include and internal decoding for any additional audio codecs (like Dolby TrueHD, dtsHD, or dtsHD Master Audio) to be output through the HDMI output?

2. Does the recent firmware update to each the BDP-S500 and BDP-S2000ES include internal decoding for dtsHD Master Audio?

3. Will these players ever get these in the future?

There have been a lot of rumors floating around the internet that these are true. Please let me know.

Eric

Eric

[WI Rotel]

I just got confirmation from my Sony rep that the BDP-S500 and BDP-S2000ES does not, and will not ever, decode or bitstream dtsHD Master Audio. It's a hardware limitation.

Also as a side note the BDP-S300 does not, and will not ever, decode Dolby TrueHD internally. Some people thought it might after the latest firmware update as well.

Here is what my rep sent me.



Eric

We are running around in circles since I have a 2000ES that is obviously decoding it. Plus, a sony online representative that said it had been included in the latest update. Your "source" is, therefore, wrong!

[hifiguymi]

My source is my Sony rep. He got the info from a person in Sony tech support. You can believe what you want, but I'm going to trust my rep and the fact that Sony didn't put anything in the firmware release notes about any additional decoding.

Eric

[cxc21]

There is just no way your player gets mysteriously empowered. The 1069 does not analyze the digital data, it reads the description of the data which may give you the info of the original track, but output is not MA. As I said something like the 1069 is not capable of truely analyzing and distinguishing any of this.

[Nuthed]

My Lord! Is he starting this crap again? In your last thread about this it was explained very well what is what. Did you not believe it? You are a sad case.

[btf1980]

We are running around in circles since I have a 2000ES that is obviously decoding it. Plus, a sony online representative that said it had been included in the latest update. Your "source" is, therefore, wrong!

The Sony rep who told you that is wrong. I can confirm what hifiguymi posted because I asked our Sony buyer the same question and he said the same thing in regards to the BDP S2000ES verbatim.

[cxc21]

This now makes three sony reps against one sony online support guy.

[maseline_98]

Also as a side note the BDP-S300 does not, and will not ever, decode Dolby TrueHD internally. Some people thought it might after the latest firmware update as well.

Here is what my rep sent me.
Eric

What does it all mean Bazzle?

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/09/02/bdp-s300-firmware-4-20-adds-dolby-truehd-support-finally/#comments

[hifiguymi]

What does it all mean Bazzle?

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/09/02...ally/#comments

It means that the info that my rep had then has changed.

Eric

[H.T.C]

Lol, im glad i went 2-channel and not because i dislike surrond sound especially when i worked in the cinema as a projectionist (which was fun) but we did not have that many formats (if the movie house had stereo amps and not mono,depending on screen) just dolby and its competitors umm, also sony sdds was just coming around the corner.

This cant be good for joe and jane sixpack just more confusing and likely to cause some stress as well when shopping for equipment in a store that does not care and just wants profits.

Manufacturers should just concentrate on one format (yeah,i know less choice) but it would make it alot less difficult and better for the hobbie atleast on the low end marketplace.

[WI Rotel]

Surprised this came up again. Sony has not made DTS MA available for this or any other player (except PS3) yet, Their new players that include DTS MA are still in the pipeline......