Hungry for new HD formats

[Guybrush]

I have almost finished "building" my new HT room (you can see the entire process and pictures here: http://www.avmagazine.it/forum/showthread.php?t=54962 ).
I still own a Rotel RSP-1066 preamp and a Rotel RMB-1075 amplifier and I will connect them to my PlayStation3 (what a wonderful BluRay and DVD player it is !! ;x( ) using an optical cable, so that I will be able to listen to Dolby Digital 5.1, DTS 5.1 and PCM stereo.
I love Rotel's audio performance, however I would also love to listen to Dolby Digital True HD and DTS HD Master Audio.
Right now, however, I think I can live with compressed audio, but I will definitely jump to lossless audio at the end of this year and I truly hope I will be able to do that with Rotel's equipment (at a reasonable price of course).
I read that something will be presented at CEDIA in September and I would like to know if anyone informed knows when these new products will be available through the distribution channels.

PS.
I've seen what happens to the video signal (HDMI) when passed through the Rotel RSP-1069... :M !! What the hell is that ??

[Nolan B]

I have almost finished "building" my new HT room (you can see the entire process and pictures here: http://www.avmagazine.it/forum/showthread.php?t=54962 ).
I still own a Rotel RSP-1066 preamp and a Rotel RMB-1075 amplifier and I will connect them to my PlayStation3 (what a wonderful BluRay and DVD player it is !! ;x( ) using an optical cable, so that I will be able to listen to Dolby Digital 5.1, DTS 5.1 and PCM stereo.
I love Rotel's audio performance, however I would also love to listen to Dolby Digital True HD and DTS HD Master Audio.
Right now, however, I think I can live with compressed audio, but I will definitely jump to lossless audio at the end of this year and I truly hope I will be able to do that with Rotel's equipment (at a reasonable price of course).
I read that something will be presented at CEDIA in September and I would like to know if anyone informed knows when these new products will be available through the distribution channels.

PS.
I've seen what happens to the video signal (HDMI) when passed through the Rotel RSP-1069... :M !! What the hell is that ??

with the board uprage on the 2069 nothing happens to the video as it passess the scaler. Right now a 1069 would work perfect for you. Since the playstation decodes TrueHD, soon DTS MA and many BDs have lossless PCM you will get to enjoy all the new high def audio.

[Tha Freak]

I have a PS3 also and a Rotel RSX-1055, HDMI from PS3 direct in TV and optical in the 1055.

Are the differences in lossless audio vs. standard DD and DTS audio are as stunning as a standard 480P DVD vs. a 1080P Bluray for the image ?

[Nolan B]

I have a PS3 also and a Rotel RSX-1055, HDMI from PS3 direct in TV and optical in the 1055.

Are the differences in lossless audio vs. standard DD and DTS audio are as stunning as a standard 480P DVD vs. a 1080P Bluray for the image ?

It can be...


look at it this way....no other upgade in your system will give you as big of a jump in audio quality for the relavtively small investment as going from lossy to lossless.

[Guybrush]

You mean that the quality of a Dolby TrueHD soundtrack decoded by the PS3 would as good as if it done by a separate audio preamplifier ? Hmmmmm.....

[littlesaint]

You mean that the quality of a Dolby TrueHD soundtrack decoded by the PS3 would as good as if it done by a separate audio preamplifier ? Hmmmmm.....

Decoding != processing. Decoding is just decompressing the audio track to the original PCM. It's an all or nothing process.

[Guybrush]

Decoding != processing. Decoding is just decompressing the audio track to the original PCM. It's an all or nothing process.

Perfect (if you are ABSOLUTELY sure about what you are saying).
So I just need a preamplifier that can handle 5.1 channel PCM.
It will need HDMI input since the optical connection does not have enough bandwidth to handle 5.1 PCM channels.

[Nolan B]

You mean that the quality of a Dolby TrueHD soundtrack decoded by the PS3 would as good as if it done by a separate audio preamplifier ? Hmmmmm.....

100%

There is no benefit to decoding in the audio pre-amp over decoding it in the player. Its would would be like saying one computer is better at unzipping a document better then another...now what happens after that is up the the preamp and there differences in preamps is obviously vast.

[Nolan B]

Perfect (if you are ABSOLUTELY sure about what you are saying).
So I just need a preamplifier that can handle 5.1 channel PCM.
It will need HDMI input since the optical connection does not have enough bandwidth to handle 5.1 PCM channels.

correct HDMI 1.1 or greater is all you need.

[Guybrush]

correct HDMI 1.1 or greater is all you need.

That's unbeliavable ! I read a lot of stuff about home theater equipment but this aspect has never been clear to me.
So all those TrueHD and DTS Master Audio logos are useless if your player is able to decode.
Veeeeeery interesting...
I don't even need an HDMI scaler, since the PS3 scales everything (from DVDs to BluRays) to 1080p and my Optoma HD80 accepts 1080p/24fps signals.
However I would need HDMI passthrough in the preamp or an external HDMI splitter.
Another question. If you pass HDMI through the RSP-1069, which is HDMI 1.1, will you lose 1.3 information when connecting to the display ?

[Nolan B]

....

[Nolan B]

That's unbeliavable ! I read a lot of stuff about home theater equipment but this aspect has never been clear to me.
So all those TrueHD and DTS Master Audio logos are useless if your player is able to decode.

Correct

Another question. If you pass HDMI through the RSP-1069, which is HDMI 1.1, will you lose 1.3 information when connecting to the display ?

Yes you will, but what info are you talking about? "deep color"? At this point deep color is science fiction and may never actually come to fruition, but that is only a personal opinion.

[Tha Freak]

but with a PS3, you need a receiver that will have a HDMI input for the audio part of the bluray? since there is no analog output in the PS3 that I could connect in my pre-in from my RSX-1055 ??

Am I scrued ? what are the alternatives ?

[Nolan B]

but with a PS3, you need a receiver that will have a HDMI input for the audio part of the bluray? since there is no analog output in the PS3 that I could connect in my pre-in from my RSX-1055 ??

Am I scrued ? what are the alternatives ?

In your case no there are no alternatives using the 1055 and PS3. You are stuck with the DD and DTS lossy audio formats at best.

[Guybrush]

Well, if I have to loose DeepColor I prefer to wait for a preamp that supports HDMI 1.3 and leave the RSP-1069 on the shelves. The video quality with my PS3 and Optoma HD80 (quite well calibrated, superwhite on, 24fps, etcetc) is simply astonishing.
However, to save money, Rotel could make an HDMI 1.3 capable preamplifier without TrueHD and DTS MasterAudio, since there will be lots of players with lossless audio decoding integrated. It would be a very smart move in my opinion.

[Vicente]

Or even better. Make an external unit with an HDMI input and a 5.1 (or 7.1) analog outputs so we could connect them to the analog inputs in our "old" receivers/preamps.

Also it would need a passthru HDMI output so we could connect the video out to the display (TV/projector).

As many tabletop BD/HD DVD players have this option there should not be difficult to do it.

Any of you knows if this unit exists?

Regards

Vicente

[littlesaint]

Or even better. Make an external unit with an HDMI input and a 5.1 (or 7.1) analog outputs so we could connect them to the analog inputs in our "old" receivers/preamps.

Also it would need a passthru HDMI output so we could connect the video out to the display (TV/projector).

As many tabletop BD/HD DVD players have this option there should not be difficult to do it.

Any of you knows if this unit exists?

Regards

Vicente

Yes it's called a pre/pro

Seriously, in order to convert HDMI to analog you need a D->A conversion which essentially is the function of a pre/pro.

[littlesaint]

Well, if I have to loose DeepColor I prefer to wait for a preamp that supports HDMI 1.3 and leave the RSP-1069 on the shelves. The video quality with my PS3 and Optoma HD80 (quite well calibrated, superwhite on, 24fps, etcetc) is simply astonishing.
However, to save money, Rotel could make an HDMI 1.3 capable preamplifier without TrueHD and DTS MasterAudio, since there will be lots of players with lossless audio decoding integrated. It would be a very smart move in my opinion.

Nothing uses DeepColor. It's not in HD-DVD, Blu-ray, or HDTV specs.

[Nolan B]

Well, if I have to loose DeepColor I prefer to wait for a preamp that supports HDMI 1.3 and leave the RSP-1069 on the shelves. The video quality with my PS3 and Optoma HD80 (quite well calibrated, superwhite on, 24fps, etcetc) is simply astonishing.
However, to save money, Rotel could make an HDMI 1.3 capable preamplifier without TrueHD and DTS MasterAudio, since there will be lots of players with lossless audio decoding integrated. It would be a very smart move in my opinion.

You are not getting deep color with your set up and you will loose nothingin terms of PQ running your HDMI 1.3 source through a HDMI 1.1 pre like the 1069 then to a HDMI 1.3 display.

[Guybrush]

You are not getting deep color with your set up and you will loose nothingin terms of PQ running your HDMI 1.3 source through a HDMI 1.1 pre like the 1069 then to a HDMI 1.3 display.

OK, but I find quite weird to connect HDMI 1.3 to HDMI 1.1 and then to HDMI 1.3.
I should spend almost 2000 euros on a preamp that is already "old". Wouldn't it be easier for Rotel to add HDMI 1.3 support ? And don't tell me that it would be too expensive... Just upgrade the RSP-1069 to HDMI 1.3 and it's fine for me.

[Tha Freak]

isn't 1.3 a marketing flick ?? since nothing benefits from is as of now ?

[garak]

OK, but I find quite weird to connect HDMI 1.3 to HDMI 1.1 and then to HDMI 1.3.
I should spend almost 2000 euros on a preamp that is already "old". Wouldn't it be easier for Rotel to add HDMI 1.3 support ? And don't tell me that it would be too expensive... Just upgrade the RSP-1069 to HDMI 1.3 and it's fine for me.

You won't really gain much going from HDMI 1.1 to 1.3.

Read this link, it should help clear things up for you:
Is HDMI 1.3 Necessary?

[littlesaint]

isn't 1.3 a marketing flick ?? since nothing benefits from is as of now ?

There are some Blu-ray players that do not decode HD audio codecs internally and only output the encoded bitstreams, which would require an HDMI 1.3 processor. Other than that, yes it's mostly a marketing tool.

[Nolan B]

It should also be noted that HDMI 1.3 is not the final spec for HDMI. No one said buying a HDMI device will mean you will not have to upgrade to a HDMI 1.4 device in the near future.

If you have a player which can decode the new formats then HDMI 1.1 is all you need to enjoy HD video and audio in all its glory.

We have been programed to believe that a pre does a better job then a player at decoding. This is really not true.

[Guybrush]

And what about the problems experienced with video through HDMI with the RSP-1069 ?

[Gwoardnog]

I don't think there is a player out there that can even decode DTS MA, is there a reciever? Not that a PS3 can bitrate it out anyways (hardware limitation, sony's already said it was impossible).

[hifiguymi]

I don't think there is a player out there that can even decode DTS MA, is there a receiver? Not that a PS3 can bitrate it out anyways (hardware limitation, Sony's already said it was impossible).

There are quite a few receivers that will decode dtsHD MA. For example Denon has four and Pioneer Elite has three. There are other companies that do as well.

As far as BD players, there aren't any available right now that do. The first one that I know of is Denon's DVD-3800BDCI and that is shipping this month. I do know there were a few announced at CES coming later this year that will do the decoding for all dts formats internally.

Eric

[garak]

And what about the problems experienced with video through HDMI with the RSP-1069 ?

They now have a "fix" that allows you to bypass the scalar (for HDMI inputs only). This eliminates the issues that are present in the scalar.

I can report that the bypass works as intended and video signals now pass through the 1069 unaffected.

[wheelz7]

As mentioned theres no HD or BD players on the market that decode dts-ma internally.There are how ever some players that send it bitstream via hdmi 1.3 to recievers,if you have one of the newer recievers which can decode all the new sound formats eg.denon,yamaha,onkyo then your sweet.If you have the 1069 then unless they release players that decode dts-ma internally then you will never be able to recieve it.All the others dolby true hd and dd plus can be decoded in the 1069.

[Guybrush]

They now have a "fix" that allows you to bypass the scalar (for HDMI inputs only). This eliminates the issues that are present in the scalar.

I can report that the bypass works as intended and video signals now pass through the 1069 unaffected.

Buy when you buy a new player is it already fixed or you have to send it for fixing ?

[Nolan B]

Buy when you buy a new player is it already fixed or you have to send it for fixing ?

If I were you I would tell your dealer to order you one in with the fix already done.

[Nuthed]

Buy when you buy a new player is it already fixed or you have to send it for fixing ?

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