TrueHD / DTS-HD

[randyman]

Ok, been a lurker for a long time but finally decided to post something that I could have answered for me!

I am so confused about the new lossless codecs out there. I see there is the TrueHD and the DTS-HD.

Could someone please explain to me if its even possible to hear these things via my 1068? If it is possible, how does one do it? Of course there isn't an HDMI on the 1068 so is it even possible?

TIA

[Nolan B]

Ok, been a lurker for a long time but finally decided to post something that I could have answered for me!

I am so confused about the new lossless codecs out there. I see there is the TrueHD and the DTS-HD.

Could someone please explain to me if its even possible to hear these things via my 1068? If it is possible, how does one do it? Of course there isn't an HDMI on the 1068 so is it even possible?

TIA

Yes and No.

If you buy a HD DVD or BD player which can decode TrueHD then you can simply hook up the player to the 1068 via its analog ouputs ouputs (on the play) same way you would hook up a DVD A player.

Like TrueHD if you want to listen to DTS HD then you would hook it up the same way. Problem is there are no players which can decode DTS HD.

^^^ actually my last point is not totally true. There is DTS HD and DTS MA. DTS HD is a lossy audio codec and DTS MA is a lossless audio (like TrueHD).


Do you own a HD DVD or BD player yet? Which one are you thinking of buying?

[nash]

Yes, the HD DVD/Blu Ray player can decode the lossless format and send it over analog to your 1068 using the multi channel input on your preamp. Make sure the player you buy has the analog outputs, as the cheaper ones are now leaving that feature out.

All HD DVD players have True HD decoders, and some of the newer Blu Ray ones do. There is still no player with a lossless DTS decoder built in, so right now you'll have to listen to the compressed DTS core (still excellent quality). I expect we'll see Blu Ray players with lossless DTS decoders next year - I'd like one, since Fox is back in the the blu ray game and uses this format for its lossless audio. Note that many Blu Ray discs ship with lossless PCM audio, where no decoder is required. HD DVD is a little more uniform in that it uses True HD for almost all titles that have lossless audio, but some European imports use the DTS version.

Bottom line, HDMI is not required, HDMI 1.3 is not required, and you can enjoy lossless audio with any preamp/receiver that has multi-channel inputs if you use a player that has the multi channel analog outputs.

[Vicente]

As an owner of an rsx-1056 without HDMI, which would be the best sound I could get with a Toshiba HD DVD A1 player?

With this player without analog outputs, I guess the only way I can connect it to the 1056 is through a digital conexion but, which sound would I get from that input?

Thanks for your help. Regards

Vicente

[nash]

The A1 has analog outputs.

If you use the Coax/Optical digital output, then you'll be getting high bitrate DTS audio. The player will decode the disc's audio and transcode it to this high bitrate DTS for sending out the digital outputs. It sounds quite good (better than standard DVD), but for the best experience, use the multi channel analog outputs.

[gc8ej25]

Yes, the HD DVD/Blu Ray player can decode the lossless format and send it over analog to your 1068 using the multi channel input on your preamp. Make sure the player you buy has the analog outputs, as the cheaper ones are now leaving that feature out.

Bottom line, HDMI is not required, HDMI 1.3 is not required, and you can enjoy lossless audio with any preamp/receiver that has multi-channel inputs if you use a player that has the multi channel analog outputs.

Pardon my noobness, but what would you use for video in this case, if you are using the multi channel input for audio. Would you still want to use HDMI?

[Kevin D]

HDMI to the TV if you have it, but all HD players will send up to 1080i out the component video as well (but won't send scaled SD-DVD's out component).

Kevin D.

[Vicente]

The A1 has analog outputs.

If you use the Coax/Optical digital output, then you'll be getting high bitrate DTS audio. The player will decode the disc's audio and transcode it to this high bitrate DTS for sending out the digital outputs. It sounds quite good (better than standard DVD), but for the best experience, use the multi channel analog outputs.

Sorry Nash, I was wrong. The equivalent model to the European E1 that I'll get is the american A2, and although it has stereo analog output I was meaning that it had no 5.1 analog outputs.

But I'm happy if I can get a good DTS sound thru optical.

As I have also a RDV-1092 DVD player, I'm using the multichannel inputs of the RSX-1056 for DVD-Audio and analog Stereo signals.

Now I have to compare the quality of the sd DVD's upscaled from the Thoshiba against the Rotel (both at 1080i that is the maximun resolution I can get from my projector Mitsubishi HC3000).

I'm getting the Toshiba very cheap (150 Euros) for the european level and It would be a pity that it will perform better than the Rotel RDV-1092 that costed me 1500 Euros.

I'll tell you.

[nash]

I gotcha - yeah, it is a bit disappointing that the E1/A2/A3 do not have analog outputs. I think you will find that the DTS output is very good, though - certainly better than what you are used to on standard DVD.

The upconverting on the A2 is decent - not quite as good as the A1, and definitely not as good as the XA2. But it's not a huge margin. I think you will find it to be a satisfactory player, and perhaps will replace your RDV-1092 for normal viewing. I have a friend who uses an A2 upconverting, and occasionally finds artifacting problems - but he is happy with it overall. I find that the XA2 is stellar for upconverting, but I love HD/BR so much now, I almost never watch standard def anymore

[Vicente]

I just got my A2/E1 and compared to the Rotel 1092.

About the video side, I didn't find differences between both of them (running at 1080i as I don't have a 1080p display). They are really good.

About sound, Rotel wins hands down to the Toshiba, both in the digital or analog fields (thanks God my 1500 Euros have not been spent for nothing), but the bad news are that in the A2/E1, specific HD audio sound converted to DTS through the optical digital output sounds worse than the equivalent DD 5.1 from a standard DVD.

I tried "Riddick Chronicles" with the HD DVD version in the Toshiba and the SD DVD in the Rotel.

As you said, the sound from the Toshiba was converted to DTS, but as soon as the film started I noticed that the sound was really poor. I changed then to the Rotel with the SD DVD version in DD 5.1 and that was completelly different. Sound was richer and deeper, much better than the DTS converted from the HD DVD. I then switched the SD DVD to the Toshiba so it could be compared in the same player and again the sound was much better in DD 5.1 that the one I got from the HD DVD.

So the lesson learnt is that my Rotel is still THE player for SD DVD and that as soon as I can get a multiplayer (for HD-DVD and BD) I will get it, but it has to be with at least 5.1 analog outputs, so I can obtain the real HD sound thru my RS-1056. Then the problem will be with the few DVD-Audio discs I have, because I'll have to get something to connect so many analog inputs.

Of course for 150 Euros, or less than a hundred dollars that you pay now in the USA, the E1/A2 is a magnificient player.

Regards

Vicente

[apodaca]

Vicente you are in the minority. The DTS is converted at full bandwith and in the case of 1.5 Mbps DD+ or even when selecting the True HD track the conversion is done at 1.5 Mbps. In the case of DTS HD you are also getting the core at 1.5 Mbps. Many professional reviews have confirmed that the new formats and players sound superior to legacy Dolby Digital and DTS over optical and with my equipment at home I would have to agree.

It is impossible for a quality movie sound track encoded in a DVD at 480 kbps to sound superior to that of the A1/A2 at 1.5 Mbps especially when comparing the two players via digital as this eliminates the excellent analog stage of the Rotel. There is no doubt that spinning a CD in the Rotel will be superior but it stops there. I would strongly suggest before you compare the two that you level match the players with a sound meter and try again otherwise there is something wrong with your player.

[Vicente]

Thanks Apodaca for your info. Next weekend, I'll check again with more time to spend in trials.

One of the things I first noticed was that the sound level was pretty low in DTS compared with the DD, so when I made comparisons I had to equalize volumes (by ear).

I use to hear films with the volume of the rsx-1056 at 63 and with the Toshiba E1 I had to turn it up to at least 70-72, and even at this level my impression is that for example the sound of an explosion was deeper and richer in DD than in DTS.

I noticed also that the voices in the central loudspeaker were like not so natural (DTS), and too loud in comparison with the rest of the soundtrack.

As I tell you that was my first impression and I'll have to check it again, but I'm used to the sound of my HT system, and in my opinion it seemed worse to me when I used the DD+ converted to DTS.

Maybe the setup in the Toshiba is not configured correctly. If any of you knows how to set it it would be fantastic.

The parameters to configure are

HDMI: AUTO - PCM - DOWNMIXED PCM
Digital output SPDIF: BITSTREAM - PCM
Dynamic Range Control: AUTO - ON - OFF

I don't remember how I did the setup but I think it was HDMI-Downmixed PCM (user manual says to use it if you use the SPDIF optical output to connect the audio system), DIGITAL OUTPUT SPDIF in Bitstream and DRC in OFF, but I'm not sure.

Regards

Vicente

[PSUfan]

I guess this is a little confusing for me too........but I have my Arcam DVD player hooked up via the coaxial cable for sound. I would have better sound quality if I used the analog connections?

Thanks,
Shane

[Kevin D]

Since I don't believe Arcam has a hi-definition player, then no. you probably won't have a better sound from using the analog cables.

This discussion only pertains to HD-DVD and BR players. If Arcam does have one of these, then yes the 5.1 analog outputs should sound better then the digital out.

Kevin D.

[PSUfan]

Thanks Kevin :T

[Vicente]

The parameters to configure are

HDMI: AUTO - PCM - DOWNMIXED PCM
Digital output SPDIF: BITSTREAM - PCM
Dynamic Range Control: AUTO - ON - OFF

I don't remember how I did the setup but I think it was HDMI-Downmixed PCM (user manual says to use it if you use the SPDIF optical output to connect the audio system), DIGITAL OUTPUT SPDIF in Bitstream and DRC in OFF, but I'm not sure.

I had the Dynamic Range Control in On so I guess that was the reason the sound was flat and without life. I changed to Off and now it is much better.

Regards

[apodaca]

Cool. I still would keep that Rotel around especially for CDs and the rare DVD audio that is out there. The Toshiba cant compete here and is also slow to load.

[randyman]

Thanks for all the responses. I'm still learning, so thankfully people have the time to respond for people like myself.