Rotel RCD-1072 vs. RCD-02

**Andrew Pratt** · 04 March 2004, 12:17 Thursday

For a interim solution why not use the DAC in the receiver to decode the CD's...it might sound a little better then the pansonic's DAC.

As for the Rotel CD players given the choice I'd take the 1072 over the 02 on looks alone but I believe it sounds better as well (though I haven't listened to the 02 at all).

If you're willing to buy used I'd take a look on Audiogon and see if there's any 990 or 991's available as they're the best CD player Rotel's ever made.

**Atorak** · 04 March 2004, 13:32 Thursday

Does that mean that the 990 and the 991 would be considerably better than the 1072 even?

My dealer is going to let me demo the 02 this weekend. Perhaps, if I could get the 1072 as well, and 2 more pairs of King Cobras, couldnt I just hook up the DVD and both CD players using Analogs into the Receiver, so I can A/B/C them?

I was thinking that was the best way to do it, but I wasnt sure if it would have any effect on the sound quality.

Thanks, I looked on Audiogon, and there was none.

**Aussie Geoff** · 05 March 2004, 05:40 Friday

Atorak,

I did the A-B between the RCD-02 and RCD1072 earlier this year. I used the same CD, Amp, Speakers etc. (The CD was Norah Jones Come Away)

The RDC-02 was very nice but the RCD-1072 was (to my ears) very substantially better with clearer more revealing sound and a greater degree of transparency in the music - it was like a veil was lifted (as they say in the magazines). Once heard – I couldn't contemplate the (still very good) RCD-02.

Now both these comparisons were using analog cables an Rotel Stereo Pre-Amp and Amp. I also did the comparison with the RSP-1098 on the coax digital cable. Same difference (to my surprise) though not quite as marked.

The store also had a RCD-991 on trade in so I listened to that as well (just because of reputation etc). It was good - better than the RCD-02 and equal but different to the RCD-1072. I went for the RCD-1072 because it seemed more neutral and transparent - a cleaner sound that I liked more. However it was close enough that I suspect it would come down to personal preferences....

Geoff

**Atorak** · 05 March 2004, 10:36 Friday

You mean you used the Coax Digital to connect the RCD-02 and the RCD-1072 to the RSP-1098 / Power Amp 'X'? And you also used Analogs to do the same exact thing, but using a Stereo Pre / Power Amp 'X'?

Just a slight bit confused on that issue.

A rather stupid question, but how was the sound of the Coax compared to the Analogs? On my current system, it is night and day, since the DACs on the Onkyo are probably not as good as my DVD player (which is surprising since it isnt that good!). Just curious how they turned out.

My dealer is allowing me the opportunity to demo the 1072 and the 02 this weekend, with 2 sets of King Cobras. So hopefully, ill be able to discern the difference myself, and go with the better purchase. :LOL:

**Aussie Geoff** · 05 March 2004, 11:02 Friday

Atorak,

Sorry for any confusion. To be more specific - I did my analog comparison on a Rotel RA-62 amplifier, with its pre-outs driving (I think) an RB-1070 and using Sonus Faber speakers. We simply unplugged the phono cable from one CD player into the other and swapped the CD over.

To do the digital comparison required a different room and speakers etc and I used the RSP-1098 as a high quality reference point. I didn't retry the Analog on the in-store RSP-1098 - just the Digital using 2 of the RSP-1098’s coax inputs and setting both to default to stereo. (Of course now that I have my own RCD-1072 at home I have done lots of direct Analog to digital comparisons).

Re the differences between the Analog and Digital, firstly let me say that this was very cable dependent, both on the Analog and Digital side. Changing cables altered the sound a lot (to my ears anyway). However with high quality interconnects on both - I find the digital coax connection using the RSP-1098 DACs and the RCD-1072 to be very good and superficially brighter and more forward sounding than the Analog connection. However (for me) once listened to, the Analog connection and the RSP-1098s' stereo bypass mode has a more revealing soundstage than the Digital one, with a greater sense of depth and ambience, especially a sense of height in the soundstage. Both are very enjoyable but for reference listening the Analog is (for me) clearly preferable. it must be pointed out though that soon as you change from stereo bypass mode (e.g. engage the subwoofer, DPL IIx or 7 channel stereo) the digital sound is better as the RSP-1098 has to re digitise the Analog signal to process any non stereo output.

Hope this helps with your questions.

However I am pleased you are listening and comparing for yourself - its the only way to be sure.

Make sure you post your impressions and choice here – as there will be interested readers and others can use this thread as a reference etc.

Geoff

**Atorak** · 05 March 2004, 12:04 Friday

Thanks Geoff!

I will be auditioning this Saturday and Sunday, so hopefully, ill have some comparisions between the Panasonic XP30, the 1072, and the 02 by the end of the weekend. Guess ill throw in a little Coax / Analog comparison as well, heh.

Guess I find it hard to believe that the DACs on the 1098 could sound a bit better then the DACs on a dedicated CD player, even though its only when the Subs/7 Channel Stereo are activated.

Still, pretty impressive for the 1098, ill be grabbing the 1068 shortly!

**Andrew Pratt** · 05 March 2004, 17:51 Friday

I agree don't discount the DAC in the 1098 as they're very very good

**Aussie Geoff** · 05 March 2004, 22:37 Friday

Atorak,

Just to (further) clarify things for you and help make sure your CD comparison is worthwhile. surround sound processing and bass management in a HT processor or receiver is done in the digital domain - that is a DSP (digital signal processor) in the HT Processor or Receiver manipulates the 1s and 0s in a digitised version of the sound to do things like extract out bass for the subwoofer, or process the sound to create rear channels in DPL II or IIx. At the end of this the digital signal is converted back to analog by Digital to Analog Converters (DACs)

Now many HT Processors and Receiver simply always convert any analog signal on everything except their 5.1 or 71. inputs to digital. In this case you are 99% of the time better off feeding the digital signal (when you have one) into the HT Processor or Receiver to avoid the progressive loss of quality from being converted and reconverted.

However many higher end Receivers and Processors offer a Analog bypass or Stereo bypass mode whereby a Stereo Analog signal can be sent through the Processor or Receiver without being digitised in any way. Here you have no bass management (i.e. no Subwoofer and non surround processing of any type - just stereo.)

So – With a HT Receiver or Processor – the only way you get to listen to just the CD’s DACs at work is to use the Analog Bypass / Stereo Bypass mode. Otherwise all you are doing is using the CD to convert from digital to analog and then the HT Receiver or Processor to convert from Analog to Digital and then back to Analog.

How is all this relevant to your search?

Unless you are able to set a Analog Bypass or Stereo bypass on your Integra Research Receiver, you will not hear just the sound of the DACs in the CD – you will be hearing both.
So have a read of the manual for the Integra and see if it has a true Analog bypass (those that don’t – say nothing about it – those that do have it – make a feature of it )
If your Receiver doesn’t have a Analog Bypass (many don’t) then you almost certainly will be better off using the digital input.
Given that you are intending to buy a RSP-1068 soon – I’d suggest get the best CD player you can anyway – that way as you up the quality of your HR Processor you will be able to enjoy both the digital and analog inputs of your CD, depending on whether you are listening to pure stereo.
If your front left and right speakers do not support full range bass – you may be better of with the digital input as well, since that way you can redirect bass to the subwoofer with no loss of quality.
The better the DACs in your Processor or Reciever, the less critical it is to use the analog inputs fro the CD. With many Recivers and Processors even a relatively low end CD player does better. Hence people's excitement / interest in the quality of the DACs and sound in the RSP-1098 and RSP-1068.

Hope this helps

Geoff

**Atorak** · 06 March 2004, 01:32 Saturday

Wow AGAIN! Geoff, you are the man. No doubt, heh.

Thanks for the info. My receiver does have a 'Direct' setting, and it also has a 'Pure Audio' setting. Im pretty sure that the 'Pure Audio' is a pure signal out, and the 'Direct' is the signal as well as processing for the Subwoofer. I believe thats what my guy at the A/V store said.

Wish I knew where I could find this information out for sure, heh. I might as well consult my manual, but Onkyo is a Japanese company (I think), and they are normally not too keen on making readable manuals. Nevertheless, I could get lucky I guess.

Once again, I really appreciate it. I will be picking them up tommorrow, so I will definately let all of you know.

**Atorak** · 07 March 2004, 20:45 Sunday

Well, I need help, AGAIN. I picked up the RCD-02 and the RCD-1072 yesterday, and have been A/B/Cing them by removing the CD from one, and placing it into the other, for a number of different recordings, and a TON of different types of music.

So far, here is what ive discovered. The CD player is not making a huge difference in sound. I have to be honest, it really isnt. I will admit, that the 02 and 1072 definately sound a bit better than my Panasonic XP30 DVD player. They are more 'tight' with respect to bass, they seperate instruments a bit better, and are definately more focused with vocals. With that being said, the differences seem very minimal. I heard somewhere, that a CD player only makes about a 5% difference in sound, and im starting to believe it. It is definately not night and day.

With respect to the 02 and 1072, and their differences, the only thing I can say is, who the hell knows. I can say with a certain confidence, that Rotels CD players have a certain type of 'flavor' to them. Sometimes, I thought I heard tighter bass on the 1072, but when I went back to the 02 a few more times, it was very hard to discern.

Now, to even FURTHER complicate things, I just bought a Denon DVD-2900!!! The guy told me I could return it whenever, so im giving this a test run as well. So for the past few hours, I have now been A/B/C/Ding things! You should see my A/V rack, it is truly a sight! Thousands of dollars worht of equipment stacked on top of each other, you have to love it.

Now to throw the Denon in the Mix, it is definately a nice player. Beautiful construction, tons of options, many of which the Rotels do not have, nor do my Panasonic. Also, not to be totally off-topic, the picture on the 2900 is outstanding. It seemed even better than my Panasonic, and the Layer Changes are non-existant. My only qualm, is that it takes a little bit longer than the Rotels to change disks, which is annoying when I am trying to A/B something. But, oh well. Cant be perfect.

As for the sound of the Denon, I think it is as close to the Rotels as possible. They both use Burr-Brown 24-bit DACs I believe, so the sound coming from the both of them are similiar. My problem now is that I feel like I have a bit of listening Fatigue, since my 804s are a bit on the bright side, especially through the Panasonic. I want to compare all the players, but when I stick something into the Panasonic, the brightness is a bit overwhelming to my ears. But, that might be due to the fact that Ive spent a good day and a half listening to music.

With the Denon, in a good number of tracks, I felt that the soundstage was a bit less 'forward-sounding' than the Rotels. It is something I have actually came to like. The Rotels sound very good, and the soundstage is pretty large, but the Denon placed everything back in the slightest bit, which makes things sound just a bit more natural. I guess the Denon is just a little more 'laid-back', although with Audio equipment, who the hell really knows. A review is nothing more than an opinion. I liked the Denon, because at the same volume level, things were a little less forward, but it could easily turn into the Rotels soundstage by upping the volume a few notches.

Well, thats it for now! I will get back to listening, before the Sopranos start this year (woo hoo!), and Ill try to write some more up later. Please, please, give me some thoughts about what I stated above, and if any of you have used any of the equipment I mentioned.

I feel like I should save my money, and replace my Integra 6.3 DTR with the Rotel RSP-1068, before I make the plunge into a new CD/DVD player. I feel like I will get more out of my existing sound. Does anyone else agree? Anyway, thanks, and enjoy. Ill write more later, so leave some input!

**Andrew Pratt** · 07 March 2004, 23:51 Sunday

Well you're in fine company with the 1072 and the 2900:T They're really different beasts though given the 2900 will give you SACD and DVD-A which when done right are stunning...and when done poorly still sound as good as a regular CD. I can't say which way I'd lean at this point if you really don't hear much of a difference...you might very well just wait and upgrade your integra unit then decide from there.

Also if you're finding the DVD player too bright sounding you might try a different analog cable as some will tame that high end a bit more then others. A good copper cable for example should sound a little smoother then say a silver one. If its really bright MIT cables could be used as they have passive electronics in them to tame that upper end

**Atorak** · 08 March 2004, 00:43 Monday

Thanks Andrew. Unfortunately, its 11:30pm here, and unless I want my neighbors dragging me into the middle of the street, I have to stop my testing now.

During the end of my listening period, I came to an idiotic realization, and I cannot believe I didnt think of it before. I can safely assume, that not one of these units was ever properly broken-in. Which, really sucks, for me. I didnt even have time to break them in, but I wish I could have compared units that were. Everything sounds a bit harsh out of the box, so I couldnt expect to hear the full potential out of any one of these units. Although, I do know, that my Panasonic is still 'pinching' my brain on the brighter tracks.

Its just a shame, because after 2 days of 'somewhat critical listening', I am still at a loss for words. Perhaps if I had a few different sets of the same exact CD, I could have A/B'd a bit more effectively, but such wasnt the case. Plus, I wasnt about to spend $20 a cd in the store to do so.

Guess I just have to wait for those Tax Returns to come in, so I can move onto the B&W HTM1 at $2,000, and the Rotel RSP-1068 at $1,700. *sighs*

After that, and a change in cables, maybe ill be ready for a CD player. But for now, until bands I actually like start coming out with some SACD/DVD-A cds, guess Ill have to wait.

Feel free to leave me anymore feedback if you like, id be happy to try and answer any questions you might have about any of the above units, as best as I can anyway.

One last question though. Say I do decide to get the 1068. Could I just use my Panasonic as a CD Transport, and use the DACs on the 1068 to handle all the conversions itself? I believe that might be one of my best choices, until I splurge for the separate player. If someone has any ideas how that might sound, I would love the input.

Take it easy.

**Jason Brown** · 08 March 2004, 00:57 Monday

When I bought my DVD-2900 I remember throwing a CD into it and being completely amazed. Until that point, I had thought that quality speakers were the only thing to worry about when you wanted quality sound. I was so impressed with the detail of the 2900 over my Pioneer megachangers that I decided to sell all 4 of the changers and buy a real CD player.

It was actually kind of hard to find a single-disc dedicated CD player, but when I did, it was Rotel. The dealer actually tried to talk me into the RCD-02, saying the 1070 (this was just before the 1072) was overkill in my system. Maybe it was, but I've upgraded everything else since then so I'm glad I went with the (in stock) 1070. I find it to be quite a bit more detailed than the Denon, and that's why I like it better.

I wish I could remember what my dealer told me the main difference between the two Rotels was -- something about twice as many DACs or going through them twice or something.

**Aussie Geoff** · 08 March 2004, 05:26 Monday

Atorak,

Your approach of waiting for a CD player until you can afford to upgrade at least your Processor is a good one. Unless you can hear the difference - why invest now.

From experience – my old Denon 3802 was not revealing enough to show the differences with good analog components (though it did with digital) so I could well believe that your Integra Receiver is similar. I remember trying high end CD players with it and thinking so – what’s everyone getting excited over....

The Denon 2900 is a nice all round machine, great with DVDs, and good with DVD-A, SACD and CDs. If you had to buy just one thing (i.e. CD or DVD) I’d be buying the Denon for this flexibility. Once I had this then If I still wanted more – then I’d be considering a dedicated CD player

Re your question on the Panasonic as a transport and using the RSP-1068’s DACs– It is highly likely that this will be better sounding than the Panasonic but not as good as any of the Rotel CD player choices or the Denon 2900. You will notice the improvement but there will be more to have – Only you can say (hear) whether the extra is worth it to you.

However every penny you save towards that RSP-1068 will help. Once you get one – then get back those players and try again – I think you will be pleasantly surprised ho much better everything sounds

Geoff

**Atorak** · 08 March 2004, 10:15 Monday

Thanks everybody. Hope others find my 'limited' research helpful. Like I said before, any questions, and ill be happy to answer them.

Also, by days end, I did like the sound of the Rotels the best. The denon was better than the Panasonic, but I still felt that I was getting a 'bit' more with the Rotels. Although, I was unable to discern a TRUE difference between either CD player. I believe that everything was warming up a bit after running them for long periods of time.

For now, I am going to grab a 1068 when I can afford it. Thanks!

**aud19** · 08 March 2004, 13:36 Monday

Re your question on the Panasonic as a transport and using the RSP-1068’s DACs– It is highly likely that this will be better sounding than the Panasonic but not as good as any of the Rotel CD player choices or the Denon 2900. You will notice the improvement but there will be more to have – Only you can say (hear) whether the extra is worth it to you.

However every penny you save towards that RSP-1068 will help. Once you get one – then get back those players and try again – I think you will be pleasantly surprised ho much better everything sounds

Geoff really hit the nail on the head there. I couldn't have said it better myself

Good luck with the 1068 Joe, keep us updated when you get your gear

Jason

Need a new display? Questions about new display technologies? Visit RPTVs, plasmas, and other monitors @ HTguide

Rotel RCD-1072 vs. RCD-02

Rotel RCD-1072 vs. RCD-02

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment