Why are U.S Prices lower than Canadian Prices???

[ICEMAN70]

Hi guy's

Why do we pay more for ROTEL here in Canada than U.S? I don't get it. Canadian dollar almost cought up to U.S and still we pay more.

For example a Rotel RSP 1098 costs $2999 U.S that is $3372 Canadian but my dealer wants $4250 cdn for it??

RSP 1068 costs $1699 U.S that is $1910 canadian but my dealer wants $2450 Cdn for it?

RMB 1077 is $2499 U.S that is 2809 canadian but my dealer wants $3499 Cdn for it.

Well the list goes on and on. I dont get it, just across the border Rotel is like $600 - $800 less than what we pay here. Why does Rotel price their products so weird?

[scanido]

I say buy from the States then!

I wish i did on my 804S which across the border retail for $4000 but here in Canada go for $6000.

[Kobus]

Yes, would be nice to have this explained, here is a thread on us South Africans having the same problem.

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=20013

[Vicente]

This is a recurrent theme. Same happens in Europe and the differences with US prices are so big that make us (rest of the world) angry.

I guess we could accept a small difference due to currency exchange, customs, taxes etc. but Rotel is responsible of setting such different prices in origin that i feel we europeans are mistreated by Rotel.

We all ask Rotel to build good equipment, with good sound, picture quality, and great look, and as we all around the world get the same units we should ask also that prices must be set similar.

If we could not accept worse quality outside the USA why should accept a worse price/quality ratio?

I hope Rotel read this and do something about it. We don't deserve it.

[JDH]

Hi guy's

Why do we pay more for ROTEL here in Canada than U.S? I don't get it. Canadian dollar almost cought up to U.S and still we pay more.

For example a Rotel RSP 1098 costs $2999 U.S that is $3372 Canadian but my dealer wants $4250 cdn for it??

RSP 1068 costs $1699 U.S that is $1910 canadian but my dealer wants $2450 Cdn for it?

RMB 1077 is $2499 U.S that is 2809 canadian but my dealer wants $3499 Cdn for it.

Well the list goes on and on. I dont get it, just across the border Rotel is like $600 - $800 less than what we pay here. Why does Rotel price their products so weird?

I guess it has something to do with the size of the market, ie. more sales in the USA vs Canada etc and existing prices of similar equipment Rotel is competing against. If I was in Canada and I wasn't happy with the price locally I'd be buying it from the USA too.

[Boombox]

I guess it has something to do with the size of the market, ie. more sales in the USA vs Canada etc

I can't agree with this. 2 reasons:

1. If "Made in China" stands on the box in the USA as on all boxes throught the world, it says to me that each unit has a cost to company value; that means ROTEL spends x amount to produce and manufacture a unit whether the unit is sold in the US or any other place in the world for that matter...ROTEL makes their profit....

2. Assume ROTEL sell their units at half price in the US as compared to the rest of the world, it is logical that double as many people can afford to buy a ROTEL unit in the US than in the rest of the world making it obviuos that the US sell more units in the USA than in the rest of the world!!!.........?????????

Explain that to me!!!

[Elvis]

So.....what role does your government play in higher prices?

[Clepto]

For the Canadians, I blame P.S.T and G.S.T.

[aud19]

For the Canadians, I blame P.S.T and G.S.T.

I believe those prices are before any sales taxes.

But I wouldn't doubt that Canada charges more import taxes/tarriff's etc. Still while I could see that increasing the price say $50-$150 that doesn't account for the LARGE difference in prices IMO. I'll also note that this isn't the only place I've noticed this price discrepency. Look at car prices or just about any large value product. It seems a lot of companies are still charging prices based on our dollar value when it was $0.75-$0.80'ish instead of it's increasingly equal value.

[technimac]

Higher prices outside the USA

Every electronics manufacturer that sells in Canada can restrict the number of distributors and dealers that handle their products, thus fixing prices. That guarantees exhorbitant markups at both the retail and wholesale level.

It has nothing to do with higher costs of manufacturing, distribution or at the retail level.

It's the same with electronic components from Solen. They mark-up imported components (like Seas speakers) much more than their US counterparts.

Don't lay the blame on higher taxes, but you blame the Canadian government for not having tough laws that encourage - guess what - competition! Price fixing in Canada is a nation-wide disgrace promoted by many corporations.

Ironically, the pharmaceutical industry in the USA gets away with doing what electronics companies in Canada do. Thats why thousands of Americans flock across the border to buy life-saving drugs at more competitive prices.

Go figure!!

[Vicente]

I still don't understand it. You can not blame on government laws to encourage competition in Europe. In Europe there are many countries, different laws, different taxes, and prices are all the same for Rotel units (at least for countries in the Euro region).

I agree completelly with Boombox. The price for building a unit in China is the same independently it goes to the USA or Southafrica, and shipping cost should be similar. So why the final cost is so different?. I still expect Rotel to explain it to us.

[BTB]

Has anyone directed a formal complaint or correspondence of any nature to Rotel themselves regarding this issue? While I do support the "cause" I doubt that Rotel management is staying up nights while we complain to each other in this forum!

Maybe a sudden increase in "pricing" hate mail from their loyal customers around the world will get a more effective response?

[Boombox]

Makes the most sense...

Every electronics manufacturer that sells in Canada can restrict the number of distributors and dealers that handle their products, thus fixing prices. That guarantees exhorbitant markups at both the retail and wholesale level.

There you have it Kobus...!!! "Guide to understanding the way to guarentee high prices"....."for dummies"....

Price fixing in Canada is a nation-wide disgrace promoted by many corporations.

Not only in Canada, but here as well, particularly the motor industry...

I have to agree with BTB though; Rotel management is not having sleepless nights about this...and soon the problem will just go away....

I think that this forum is an excellent platform to launch a campaign to get prices of Rotel goods to be more aligned to that in the US. Although our brothers in the US will go on happy shopping and upgrading their Rotel equipment, the rest of us in the world can abstain for a few months from purchasing Rotel gear until Rotel provides the same products to us at the same price as in the US. Though this is an idealistic approach to the problem, hopefully some audio magazine(s) will report about this and get Rotel management to sit up and take action....

It still angers me to see that I must fork out R13000 for an amp that cost R7000 in the US. No!!

[Kobus]

Hi

For what its worth, I e-mailed a link to this discussion to the South African distributor.
I will post their comments if there are any (any bets).

I suggest you do the same to your distributors.

Kobus

[Paul H]

...
I think that this forum is an excellent platform to launch a campaign to get prices of Rotel goods to be more aligned to that in the US. Although our brothers in the US will go on happy shopping and upgrading their Rotel equipment, the rest of us in the world can abstain for a few months from purchasing Rotel gear until Rotel provides the same products to us at the same price as in the US.

If you want to make a real impact to their pricing and sales don't abstain from buying their product for a few months, just abstain. (period)

Paul

[george_k]

short answer: supply and demand the market is so much more competitive in the states hence the lower prices and manufacturers and able to compensate for selling low in one country by selling high in another.

we overpay for H/K stuff up hear as well, futureshop sell the avr 340 for $1200 (CDN) when in the states you can get one for as little as $560 (CDN) (which is about $500 USD)

we should engage in some arbitrage to bring down the prices up here

[shadow]

short answer: supply and demand the market is so much more competitive in the states hence the lower prices and manufacturers and able to compensate for selling low in one country by selling high in another.

Time to do some basic economic research. Price reflects demand, competition and the cost of doing business in a market. Canadian products like Anthem, Paradigm etc are much cheaper in Canada than here. More than a few US customers in the northern part of the country make a weekend trip to Canada to buy a Canadian product and save some money. Euro prices no doubt reflect the higher cost of doing business there coupled with the gamble that buyers will pay the price asked and not buy the competition. There are plenty of hidden costs of doing business in Europe for your state welfare system, wage requirements, local taxes and other expenses unique to your market that have to be paid by someone. I recall a couple of years ago that a British magazine compared the Rotel 1056 against the Arcam 300. I thought the review unusual since the Arcam costs $700 more than the 1056. In Britain, the price was the same. If Rotel is overpriced in other markets, I assume there are other viable options at competitive prices. Just my two euros

[Kevin D]

While I don't personally know any of you, I can guarantee that none of us know enough about global economy to in any way effect how Rotel prices their products on a global basis.

Hell, I've got an international business degree and don't know enough to make a debate about it. One of the first things they teach you is that the exchange rate is a very small part of the equation. They actually have a lot of other indexes that can show the true exchange rates for different groups of products.

Kevin D.

[shades]

Do like i do. Go to your local dealer and show him how much you are paying for them in the US with the exchange, border fees ect...and ask him to give you a better deal.

My dealer usually is really good to me @ 20-25% off. Some things he just can't do and says to me you can get a much better deal from the US, other times he just says i'll make it worth your while.

[foeth]

Works overhere are well. We pay at least 19% salestax excluding import... The RMB-1077 has a listprice of US $3800... :evil: Bought it anyway 20% off :B

[Kobus]

Being a qualified accountant with an open mind, I do not think that it is so complicated.

Being in a smaller market, I can appreciate that there might be an extra middle man as we might not import directly from China and also import taxes. For now that's all I can think of. 10% for each of them = 20% more than the US.

but not so............

What I can buy is, smaller market, less competition = higher price. But that said the difference just seems to big.

Kobus

[Sim reality]

It has to be price fixing.

The worst case senario from ordering Rotel from the states to Canada:

Brokerage: $100
Shipping: $100
Duty: 3% (That would be what? $100?)

And this would be for a the cost for a private person to ship 1 unit from the states to Canada.

The only thing you can argue is that it does not include shipping for stuff that has to be repaired under warrenty but that should be over number of faults per 100 units and not faults per unit.

Ultimately it's the Canadian retailer loses out because those of us that are near the border go over the border to get the higher ticket items...

I let it go in 2005 because the prices were set in Jan of 2005, but in Jan 2006 there should have been a price change to reflect the higher dollar.

[foeth]

And what matter most of course: we are all willing to pay it... happy niche marketting

[ICEMAN70]

I don't think ROTEL will be happy about this either. Tell you why.. They are in the business to make money also. So that said, i would have loved to have the ROTEL RSP 1098 in my house but instead i opted for the cheaper RSX1057.. YES, my dealer did offer me an 15% discount on the 1098 but still with taxes it is still $4000 canadian. If the price was around $3400 canadian i would have bought one. But for over $4000 there is no way i am doing that. So who looses out here? ROTEL.. because they just lost a sale on a bigger item.

I dont think this is ROTEL's fault, i think the dealers here are putting too much mark up on these items. Even though they give you a discount they are still making lot of money.

[Boombox]

....One of the first things they teach you is that the exchange rate is a very small part of the equation...

Clearly not in this case..!!

I'll give an example...

My first Rotel amp I bought was 6 years ago. The RA932. I bought it for R4250 (including a 10% discount). At the time the South African Rand was R12 = 1 US$. This brings the price to US$350... The RA932, at time, sold for US$299.

I still believe that the problem lies with the distibutor who is making a 100% mark-up, leaving the dealer with only a "small" profit margin.

Here is my calculation...

The RB1080 sell in the US at the dealer for $1000 (which includes his profit, the distributor's profit and Rotel's profit); + the dealer in the US can still give a 10% discount :T . So in South Africa....if the RB1080 reached the distributor @ $1000 (R6500), the distributor adds his $600 (R4000) leaving the dealer with $400 (R2600) to make a profit from. This brings the total to $2000 (R13000) for the RB1080 in SA. But we all know that the distributor does not get the amp at $1000, but at most $800 (way, way, way upper limit)...?? Thus Rotel sells for $800, distributor adds $800 and the dealer gets $400...total $2000. This is Bul*%#it.

I must add that it is just fair that everyone makes a profit. With this I have no problem and I have not problem paying more for a Rotel than another brand. I just hate being blatantly ripped off... :M

But, ICEMAN70, you'r right....I also wanted the RB1080, but I bought the RB1070 after I saw that the difference in the US is just $300. Here the difference between these two amps are $1000. (RB1070 = R6500 = $1000; RB1080 = R13200 = $2000)....hhhmmmm....

[Boombox]

I see that the retail prices have been removed from the South African Rotel website...

http://www.rotel.co.za/stereo.htm

it was there last week....strange...???

[Kobus]

I see that the retail prices have been removed from the South African Rotel website...

it was there last week....strange...???

I vouch for that...... very strange.

[Boombox]

sorry Kobus, found it....May 2006

http://www.rotel.co.za/Rotel%2006-05.pdf

prices are UP!!!

The suggested cash price now includes the 10% discount....

I think that after the rand crashed in 2001 and we had R12-R13 = 1US$, prices really went up, but retailers have not adjusted their prices after the rand recovered.

See the RB1080 is R13900, that's US$2130 (as opposed to US$999). However, if you keep the old exchange rate (i.e. R13 = 1US$), then indeed, the RB1080 is supposed to cost the retail price listed. However, if you use the current exchange rate (R6.50 = 1US$), that would turn out to be R6500.... :T

its becoming hilariously rediculous..... :rofl:

[Kobus]

How did you get to the pricelist as it is not on the website yet.

Yes, the "digital" amps appears to be up by about 7% +-. (my guesstimate). I will see if I can get into the old pricelist, offline at home.

Kobus

[Boombox]

http://www.rotel.co.za/

[IntegrateMe]

Guys, as someone who used to work in Canada (2001-2002) and who now works in the U.S. let me mention this.

The fault does not lie with the dealer. Let's say that the RB-1080 (US Retail $1,000) costs the dealer $650 in the US.

In Canada, if the RB-1080 was priced at $1,500 CDN, the dealer's cost would be $975. So, the margin is the same; the gouging occurs at the distributor or manufacturer level (I don't know which one.)

Just wanted to avoid the "My dealer is making too much money" nonsense.

Thanks,

Barry

[hamlyn]

Do Canadian prices exclude tax? US prices do

So after you convert from US Yen to Canadian Rubles and add US state sales tax to US prices, is there still a considerable price difference?
Some US states/cities charge as much as 10% in taxes...

[nopat]

As Kevin stated earlier, even with a degree in a specific field, there isn't enough here to go on a debate. Simply stating "It is one price in a country and another [cheaper] price in another" is like saying my house fell down, something must be wrong with it. Do you live in a hurricane area, earthquake zone, blown down by a big bad wolf, tornado...etc etc the list goes on.

Yes, exchange rate is but one of the factors that will determine the cost of a product overseas. We also have to look at import tarrifs and duties on a given product, which might not be the same for an individual as it would be for a business owner. For instance, you could be looking at luxury taxes, protected industry taxes (if they want you to buy locally made equipment), registration fees per pallet, the cost of getting something from one port to the next, corruption at the port level (do you have to bribe anyone, yes this is a very real direct cost in many countries), plus all the regular taxes that would go on top of it. It is no secret that in Japan, who is notorious for overinflating the prices of imported goods, something made in America can cost twice as much than it otherwise nominally would. Or grey market cars in the United States from overseas that have an additional 40, 50, 60K tacked on to their sticker price because of the cost of NHTSA certification.

We're also looking at the cost of doing business in these respective countries. In the US, you literally register with the state, get a federal tax ID, and you can sell. How hard is to get and maintain a business license in these countries? Canada has nationalized medicine, which I imagine can't be cheap and someone has to pay for it. Plus all the other local fees of actually opening a store or conducting business out of your home (electricity, gas, property taxes, unemployment, federal social plans, and any other local and gov't taxes).

Lest we not forget the basic precepts of economics: they [the companies] will only export so many units to other countries based not only off of the supply and demand in that country, but in all other respective countries. They will likewise further markup the cost of said unit to cover any costs of exporting it plus the lost revenue from having sold in in an already large market. Remember, they are boutique products that have very limited production runs (yes, even HK and some of Yammy's, in relation to, say, a Sony CD player or Philips TV). In economics, we call this price discrimination. It's the same reason why first class and business passengers get charged more than regular fare, even though they are on the same plane, and in many cases, receiving identical service.

Which leads to a final point: because you are willing to pay it.

Yeah, I got my degree in Finance and Economics...don't get me started

[shadow]

Great post that says so succinctly what I was unable to say nearly as well earlier. ;x(

[aud19]

Do Canadian prices exclude tax? US prices do

Just to clarify, Canadian prices do not include taxes and will have an additional federal sales tax (GST) of 7% plus a provincial sales tax (PST, which varies by province). My province's sales tax is 7% for a total of 14% taxes.

[shades]

Just to clarify, Canadian prices do not include taxes and will have an additional federal sales tax (GST) of 7% plus a provincial sales tax (PST, which varies by province). My province's sales tax is 7% for a total of 14% taxes.

Ours in Toronto is 7% GST 8% PST

[aud19]

Ours in Toronto is 7% GST 8% PST

Toronto's not a province :