Rotel 1068 Initial impressions vs. Lexicon DC-1

[spkerguy]

Hello everyone,

I just hooked the 1068 up last Friday and probably have spent a good 10 hours with it so far. The unit I was coming from was a lexicon DC-1 (latest V4. 1999) that had the center channel and sub inputs blown so getting the center and sub back was refreshing. The original DACs in the lexicon date back to 1996. I was hoping for a much better sound from the newer Rotel vs. the antiquated Lexicon but haven't heard it so far. I'll have to check my setup again to make sure there isn't interference between the IC's and power cables.

Home Theater: It is going to take some time for my ears to get used to the new sound. With the lexicon circuitry I was not used to any snaps and pops. Occasionally I am hearing them in the 1068 when turning the volume up rapidly. I listened to the LIVE 8 DVDs in DTS for my comparison between the two units. The sound is definitely different. In the Lexicon the music sounded more clear and there was definitely more blackness. I'm hoping the 1068 is still breaking in and the sound changes a little bit. With the 1068 there definitely more information present (probably due to the newer DACs) it seemed but the sound was not as distinct and clear. It was almost like the Rotel unit was holding back a bit.

2-Channel Stereo: I noticed a difference again with the Lexicon being warmer, and cleaner. The rotel 1068 seemed a little more harsh and muffled. The imaging was comparable but noticeably different. I need some more time listening to make any conclusions on the imaging. Music played: Norah Jones, Dave Matthews band, Miles Davis, and Bach Cello Solos with Yo-Yo Ma.

Setup: The basis for my remarks and comparison was unscientific since I wasn't able to A/B it. All CD sound was processed in the processors.

Gear: Energy veritas 2.4i, rotel 1095, rotel 1068, marantz cd-player (cheapo), MIT AVT1 interconnects and speaker cables.

I'm really looking to get some better sound for 2 channel and am waiting for the 1072 to arrive. Hopefully I'll notice a difference in warmth and detail vs. processing sound in the 1068. The Rotel 1068 and 1072 vs. the Lex DC-1 and cheapo marantz carousel CD-player should be much more distinguishable. We shall see!

Ken

[aud19]

Wasn't the MSRP of the DC1 somewhere around $5k? The 1068 is a great pre/pro for the money but a few years of electronics/chip advancements doesn't make up for $3k-$4k of budget. I think you may be expecting a bit much from an entry level pre/pro if you want it to have the same or better SQ, black background etc as something costing 3-4X as much, newer or otherwise.

[spkerguy]

aud19,

You Bring up some good points. I realize it isn't a fair comparison. You are right about the MSRP of the DC-1 when it came out. Overall, I'm happy with the Rotel 1068 and am very curious how it is going to sound with the 1072. (Hopefully better than my marantz using the lex DACS) For the price I picked up the 1068 and the 1072 (was backordered, should come in this week I hope) I saved around 4K from buying a new lexicon MC-8 processor. With the new audio formats coming out I didn't feel comfortable shelling out that kind of money now.

Ken

[aud19]

Smart thinking there IMO :T

[lotones]

hello

I've been settling in with a 1068 for about 2 months now, and I can tell you for sure that the sound has definitely gotten better. The first cd I usually play on new equipment is the Dead's Reckoning cd, because I know how it should sound. The acoustic instruments and good recording will point out any harshness and lack of depth in the equipment. When I first set up the 1068 the sound was good, but a bit forward, and maybe even a little brash, the guitars sounded a little thin (the new HDCD remaster even). I replayed Reckoning a couple weeks ago and it sounded warm and full, best I've ever heard it. Now the sound is excellent. There is no sense of brashness at all. The detail I'm hearing in all my standard redbook cds is outstanding. The soundstage on movies is *really* impressive. I watched Spiderman 2 the other night, which I'd seen upteen times on my previous (mid-fi) set-up, and it was like a whole new movie.

I'd say the distance between then and now was about three weeks averaging about 6 hours a day, so around 120 hours. I'd be interested in reading your take on the sound of your 1068 after a couple weeks of break-in to see if you have a similar experience.

[spkerguy]

lotones,

Thanks for your reply. I was hoping someone would vouch for the sound changing after about 100 hours of play. I'll keep my fingers crossed!

THanks,

Ken

[bleeding ears]

I read somewhere, that breakin time is needed, not sure if Rotel said that or not. Maybe they can tell you.

Also have you set all the crossovers for every speaker, adjusted the tone for every speaker individually ?

There are lots of settings to get right it takes time.

Try out the bypass mode for 2 ch cd listening and see how it sounds.
Just press the 2 ch button.

It would be interesting to get your impressions of bypass as well.

Pete

[spkerguy]

Frustrated after listening last night.

Hello everyone,

The only setup I have done for the unit has been the distance setup. The front speakers are set to LARGE. Crossovers are set to whatever they were set at the factory. What should I have them set to?

I called Rotel and they said that the 1068 does require about 100 hours for all the circuits to burn in. Right now my CD player is on repeat and passing signal to the 1068 while I'm at work. It should burn in for another 10 hours today before I have another critical listening session tonight. ALL my CD listening has been in 2-channel using the coaxial inputs (Processor doing the decoding). I'll probably take my friend at the audio dealership out to dinner in exchange for a professional calibration of the system. I shouldn't be hearing that much of a difference between the lexicon and the Rotel. Comparing the specs, the rotel unit has less THD, and noise. I'm not sure what the signal to noise ratio is. I believe the lexicon specs say at least 90db, and the rotel is 92. Rotel DACs date back to 2003 while the lexicon's are 20bit delta sigma DACs dating back to 1996. The lexicon DC-1 was one of the very first AC-3 processors that came out. Doesn't make sense. Psychologically I want the Rotel to be better especially after paying new money for the unit. If I wasn't going to get an improvement I would have just fixed the lexicon for $500.00

Last night's listening session: went through the CD's that were in the marantz carousel again and noticed the same things from the night before. Muffled soundstage, lackness of depth etc. Switched around the cables, rearranged furniture did everything. Although this is an extreme exaggeration, one way to explain the sound coming out of the Rotel is like what you hear out of your ears when gaining altitude rapidly (ears popping). I felt the sound holding back a bit and less defined instrument separation. I even thought about the possiblity that I could have a ear/sinus infection although I don't feel sick.

Why I moved to the Rotel 1068: The lexicon does not have a analog bypass so I figured the combination of the Rotel 1068 with a good source (1072) should beat the cheap transport & lexicon combination. My expectation of this combination (1068 & 1072) is very good. Hopefully my ears agree!

Very anxiously awaiting the arrival of the 1072 now! :M

Ken

[aud19]

Yes, break-in should help. I got my 1066, 1075 and Enery C's all at the same time so I can't say which made the biggest difference or required the most break in but I do know the gear all sounded very "tight", lacking depth and was on the brighter end of the spectrum out of the box. It is however much more open, warmer (while retaining the Energy's airy qualities) etc now :T

Now as for set up, for 2-ch listening it doesn't matter what crossovers you have setup as you're using the bypass feature which will send a full range signal to your V's anyway, which is the way you should do it IMO.

As for HT though you'll want to set your mains to small and experiment with a 40-80hz crossover for your mains (I use 60 myself) and likely a 80hz crossover for your centre/surrounds (that will be dependent on their models and specs) and see what sounds best. Do you have an SPL meter to set the channel levels as well? That will make a world of difference for HT performance as well.

[spkerguy]

Thanks Aud19,
I'm going to see if my friend has a SPL meter I can borrow. THat should definitely help with the calibration.

Ken

[Azeke]

Indeed, calibration is essential for HT listening, you will not only need a SPL meter, but a calibration disk will serve you well. Ensure your delays are properly set, and play with with the panoramic and dimension settings while in DPLIIx, it has significant sonic impact esp. in music. Break-in will provide significant sonic improvement as well, I just left my 1098 on for a few days and ran a CD on repeat. Just my quick thoughts.

Peace and blessings,

Azeke

[gianni]

spkerguy,

Once you get the 1072, be prepared to allow it some time to reach it's full potential. Mine took close to a month and sounds best after it's warmed up - an hour or so.

[bleeding ears]

If using stereo mode, you could also try setting the front speakers to small and set the crossover for the fronts to 60 hz.

I found the large setting too bassy with some cds, it seemed to clean up the sound a lot when in small setting, also make sure the EQ is not on as this cuts the high frequencies a tad.

Also are you turning your sub off?

I have previously thought there was no output from the sub when in fact it was contributing to the sound, turning it off is the only sure way.

Bypass mode does not allow the sub to work, so the LFE bass is sent to the fronts which I find can create a lot of bass,somethimes too much.

As I said there are a lot of settings and options to get right.
Keep at it I am pretty sure you will find it a lot better when you get it right.

I am currently comparing my 1068 to a Rotel Rc 990bx 2 ch preamp and the differences are there but, the 1068 has its own sound attributes too.

Keep at it or get some help with setting it up right.

Pete

[lotones]

spkerguy

During the course of my setup, I found the settings that made the most impact were the crossover settings (I think the defualt from the factory is 100hz, a bit high for quality speakers), test tone level (speaker volume), and subwoofer volume (on the 1068 and also on the sub itself). Just setting up the speaker distance won't get the most out of the 1068. Until all those other things are also balanced and then tweaked to your tastes, things aren't going to sound "right".

Unless you have a professional calibrate everything, it will involve a bit of trial and error. Personally I enjoy the process, though not everyone has the patience required for tweaking and retweaking their settings.

Hang in there and give it time because when it's right, the 1068 is really worth it.

[aud19]

Bypass mode does not allow the sub to work, so the LFE bass is sent to the fronts which I find can create a lot of bass,somethimes too much.

With 2-ch (ie: CD's etc) there is no LFE channel Pete. Ken should experiment to see whether he prefers listeing to 2-ch with a "full range" signal to his V's using the bypass feature or setting them to small and crossing over the bass to his sub. My guess is with those speakers and a 1095 to power the bass drivers he should have no problem running them full range and will ikely prefer the added transparency of bypass for 2-ch listening.

[spkerguy]

Hey guys,
Just picked up the 1072 today with some quality ICs. I'll probably set it up tonight and start the break-in process overnight so it is somewhat broken in by tomorrow night. I'll have to have someone take a look at the setup. Now if I have my energy veritas 2.4s set for small, in analog bypass mode will they be full range? Just curious.

Thanks again

Ken

[aud19]

Yes :T "Bypass" bypasses any digital processing including crossovers

[spkerguy]

Update on 1068 and 1072

Hey guys,

I finally had the chance to listen to the 1068 and 1072 combo. I'm keeping the 1068 now that I heard it with the 1072. This is the sound I was looking for right out of the box. Very airy and detailed (compared to 1068 and the cheap transport I was using) I can't get over how much of a difference a good source can make to a system. The sound is more like using the Lexicon's DACs but with much more detail from the better CDP. The blackness level still isn't quite where I'd like it to be at the pre/pro stage but at this price point I don't think it could be beat.


Ken

[bleeding ears]

Aud, yes you are right, I am not quite right there.

What i mean is because there is no sub signal in bypass mode,any very low bass would be sent to the fronts rather than a sub, so the fronts get it all full range and I find this sometimes too bassy.

However the Multi bypass connections on the rear panel have an option to redirect the LFE if wanted via the multi input onscreen menu.

Question , If I was using only the FL and FR multi inputs would this LFE redirect option send bass from cd's to the sub? (no LFE input connected)

Pete

[aud19]

Good to hear :T

[Kobus]

I'm relieved.

Kobus

[spkerguy]

What are your Crossover settings?

Hello everyone,

Been doing a lot of listening with the 1072 lately (have been running the CDP for about 50 hours now) and I'm starting to hear the warmth. I'm happy with 2 channel but really need to get the HT up to speed. What do you guys have your crossover settings at?

I'm using rotel 1068, 1095, and energy veritas setup. I tried 40 and 60hz for the fronts but it doesn't sound as good as 80hz for some reason. I'm using the live8 DVDs to do my listening tests. Why would a higher crossover setting sound better?

Thanks,

Ken

[PewterTA]

That's funny, I find that with my B&Ws (600 series), my 1098 sounds better with the crossover at 40Hz. Anything above that and I start to loose bass as the subwoofer really only picks up for me around 16-30Hz. So I prefer the lower setting. If the higher setting is sounding better to you, what is the frequency response of your Veritas? That seems strange that it would sound better at the higher setting. What sub are you using, maybe the sub is actually a few dbs higher in the 40 - 80Hz range than your speakers and that's why you sare seeming to prefer it?!

Other than that, "technically," with the higher you go, the less bass you should get if your sub is better at the <35Hz range.

[spkerguy]

It doesn't make sense to me either (crossover at 80hz instead of 40). The veritas are pretty revealing. For some reason when I set the crossover at 80 it sounds better to me becuase there is less noise. The sound just sounds cleaner to me at least. Here are the specs for my speakers:

V2.4i

Speaker System: Bass Reflex, Front & Rear Vented
Recommended Amplifier Power: up to 250 watts
Impedance: 8 ohms nominal
Minimum Impedance: 4 ohm
Frequency response: 30-20,000 Hz +/- 3dB

Usable Bass Response: -10dB Anechoic @ 25Hz
Anechoic Sensitivity 87dB
2 speakers in a typical room: 90dB
Crossover Points: 150Hz, 300Hz, 550Hz, 2.0kHz
Operating Range: Tweeter: 2.0 kHz and >, Midrange: 550Hz-2.0kHz, Woofer 3:~ to 550Hz
Woofer 2:~ to 300Hz
Woofer 1:~ to 150Hz
1" Aluminum Dome Tweeter,
2" Aluminum Dome Midrange,
3 6-1/2" Dual Hyperdrive Woofers